Free the Gap Closers from their Ban...

Sophieous · July 2016

This is getting beyond ridiculous, I'm starting to completely lose faith in this company. I'm genuinely wondering how can a group of people with the SAME mindset all get together and create this parody.

Ban people who used a KNOWN BUG and a GAME MECHANIC that has been mentioned in PTS but you still chose to release live and treat them with the same manner that you treat ppl who have abused ur game code and used CE, gaining advantage over other players. Oh wait worse than them, cus them bans got lifted.

It's nowhere near the same as the, say, writ mats EXPLOIT that ppl deliberately wanted to find a way to gain more in advantage of others. Every single person can come across and do it in Cyr.

And anyway, their game, their rules.

Where is the official statement by the company? Why isn't there an official statement on the games page to inform all players? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

How am i meant to know if that's a bug and not a genuine mechanic of the game if i don't read the forums, all of the threads of the forums to find the specific post from a dev saying that its a BUG and ppl should refrain from using it (no mention for bans)

I log on to my templar or anyone else with a gap closer and i accidentally use it not knowing of the current situation and think it's a normal game mech, why am I an exploiter? And how do I convince ZOS that I'm not?

It's ridiculous that people would report others for using a known bug that the company can't be ar*sed to fix. I've seen it so many times in Cyr and have never reported a single person for it, not to mention call them an exploiter!

And I don't find climbing a keep through ur GAP closer that much of an issue, worthy of a ban. I dont even mind keeping it like that as a proper game mech. It's ppl's maliciousness and mentality (accuse the player, no word for the company) that saddens me the most though.

EDIT

I even had to dig through this thread to find that there's another post by a DEV calling it an exploit. Beyond atrocious.

Pomaikai · July 2016

Nope, this is the people who exploited a known bug for personal gain's fault. Again, it's right there in black and white in the TOS signed by everyone playing the game.

Oh, and then a bunch of them came onto the forums, admitted to knowingly exploiting the game, and then laughed that ZOS wouldn't dare do anything to them.

Oops.....

Dubhliam · July 2016

ZOS is guilty of implementing a broken mechanic and not being prompt in fixing it. Players can unsub in sign of protest if they want.

Players are guilty of exploiting a mechanic that is clearly broken, and also confirmed to be an exploit multiple times by ZOS. They can and should ban those players.

Vaoh · July 2016

Can you ban people who teleport to me using Critical Rush while I'm 1vXing?

Gets annoying when you evade people and then climb a steep rock only to have 5 people charge THROUGH THE AIR to get to you.....

People should not be banned for using what is literally a game mechanic at this point.

Fix your Gap Closers one time and it'll be good, instead of pushing out this mess of a job.

Turelus · July 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS is guilty of implementing a broken mechanic and not being prompt in fixing it. Players can unsub in sign of protest if they want.

Players are guilty of exploiting a mechanic that is clearly broken, and also confirmed to be an exploit multiple times by ZOS. They can and should ban those players.

As far as I know they have only confirmed it once and that was when Jessica made her post saying they would ban people for it. Before then it was as with all exploits up in the air to if they would take action or not.

Again exploiters being banned/suspended is a good thing
It being done without informing people that something left in the game and freely abusable for weeks is now a bannable offence is not a good thing.

ZOS have made very good steps forward this week and even me as a giant cynic am starting to regain some faith in them, however they're still having growing pains with these issues and we need to be clear where they dropped the ball, sadly with this one they did so by not giving people clear information of their change (or confirmation) in stance on the issue.

altemriel · July 2016

well it is clearly the player`s responsibility to not exploit the bugs. so do not blame zos for "allowing you to exploit".

I agree with you, that it should have been fixed a long time ago already.

but saying "why ban a player, who uses exploit, when the bug was made on the side of ZOS" is like "a murderer would say, why is the police arresting me for the murder, they did not prevent me from murdering someone"

Nifty2g · July 2016

It seems ZOS are banning for the wrong thing.

Banning for an in game bug because their combat development had a major screw up

Don't ban for 3rd party programs

smh

Tourist_McGee · July 2016

LordNilloc wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

How can you blame ZOS for your own actions? They have made it known gap closers are not alright. But YOU choose to use them nonetheless.

How about the people that don't read the forums?
How do they know it's an exploit?
Before I read about it here I thought that was how it was supposed to work.

This is the first i've heard of this issue (new player), but i will say this much about it: If i read this thread right, people are using gap closers to glitch into keeps? If that's true, they they absolutely should be banned. it's common sense. People KNOW that's not how the game is supposed to work. Just because there's a mechanic that allows it, it should be obvious to even the simplest moron that when they are popping through walls or any other clearly unintended result, that mechanic is broken.

It's an honor system. They abused a bug and were punished for it. Good riddance.

jello · July 2016

Both sides are wrong imho. Lazy zos choose to not fix anything like always and stupid ppl exploited the bug to get an advantage over others.

#banzosandexploiters

Turelus · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

It seems ZOS are banning for the wrong thing.

Banning for an in game bug because their combat development had a major screw up

Don't ban for 3rd party programs

smh

They banned people for 3rd party programs. Some stayed banned other had a suspension. However bans were issued.

Now they are FINALLY after two years stepping up and enforcing their ToS and keeping Cyrodiil fair by banning people who abused a bugged skill to bypass mechanics it wasn't designed for.
No the bug shouldn't have gone live, yes they should have communicated their declaration of it being an exploit better.

But please for the love of this game don't say them enforcing this is a bad thing! It's one the best things they have done for PvP in a long time.

Tourist_McGee · July 2016

jello wrote: »

Both sides are wrong imho. Lazy zos choose to not fix anything like always and stupid ppl exploited the bug to get an advantage over others.

#banzosandexploiters

It takes a staggering amount of work to make things perform properly, and fixing one thing can often lead to other things breaking. I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed. I'm saying that they are aware of it, and if it hasn't been fixed by now, I'm sure there's a very good reason for that.

jello · July 2016

Im sorry but I lost all hope in zos. Yesterdays ps4 patch was horrible after 3 weeks of work. They set no prioritys and thats a big issue.

Noone needs the 2345th buggy dlc or cash Shop items. We need a game that works, nothing else.

lardvader · July 2016

Statements about exploits like this should at least be a sticky on the front page of the forums and some ingame information to all people who don't go to the forums.

I fully agree that we should not take advantage of known bugs like this, but I don't think people should be banned so easy over this. Give people a fair warning and make sure this information is passed on to everyone. This is nothing compared to the use of CE IMHO....

I hope they fix this bug, unban people and that we all refrain from abusing this as long as it's bugged and not working as intended.

Dubhliam · July 2016

Turelus wrote: »

@Sunburnt_Penguin been telling them that since yesterday morning.

They set the precedent it's fine to abuse bugs by taking no action for two years, now that they're finally taking action (which is a good thing, and they need to continue) they need to learn how to communicate that better.

We're getting there I guess, one disaster after another. I just hope the backlash from this makes them realise where they went wrong, and not think that enforcing things was the mistake.

I am in complete agreement with this.

ZOS made a big mess by allowing it into the game and not fixing a broken mechanic that can result in a ban.
They really have much to improve regarding prompt fixes of their broken game mechanics.

However, we all agreed to the ToS, having read it or not. Pleading ignorance is not an option. Need I mention we are all reasonable people of at least 18 years?

That being said, we don't have sufficient information regarding those bans.

How many people got banned?
What were the circumstances?
Did they have a previous offence?

I seriously doubt ZOS just started handing out bans to anyone all of a sudden.

They finally started showing a little bit of action regarding this plague of misbehavior we have seen lately.
This should be welcomed, not shunned as if they are doing something they are not supposed to.

altemriel · July 2016

Turelus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

It seems ZOS are banning for the wrong thing.

Banning for an in game bug because their combat development had a major screw up

Don't ban for 3rd party programs

smh

They banned people for 3rd party programs. Some stayed banned other had a suspension. However bans were issued.

Now they are FINALLY after two years stepping up and enforcing their ToS and keeping Cyrodiil fair by banning people who abused a bugged skill to bypass mechanics it wasn't designed for.
No the bug shouldn't have gone live, yes they should have communicated their declaration of it being an exploit better.

But please for the love of this game don't say them enforcing this is a bad thing! It's one the best things they have done for PvP in a long time.

exactly!!

teladoy · July 2016

This like the tail who was first yhe chicken or yhe egg?

Who is fault the player that uses mechanics that are bugged or zos who introduce them without fix them?

Turelus · July 2016

teladoy wrote: »

This like the tail who was first yhe chicken or yhe egg?

Who is fault the player that uses mechanics that are bugged or zos who introduce them without fix them?

The player who used it, as per the Terms of Service.

Letting a known issue like this go live and still not having a fix weeks later is sloppy game design, but it's by no means their fault that a player uses it in a way which is unintended.

SolarCat02 · July 2016

I am happy to hear there are bans for this.
Yes, ZOS should have fixed it before it went live, but the people using the bug to glitch into keeps also knew it's wrong without anyone telling them. Just like the people who used the survey glitch knew. It's not that nobody knew it was wrong, just that they didn't think they would be punished for it, given past history. I am glad Zenimax is taking baby steps to change that impression.

Let me share a real life allegory of my thinking on this. Yes, this is a true, ongoing story.

My work recently added a clear glass window to the ladies room where I work. It's in a high traffic hallway area, and from the doorway exiting the stairwell it offers a perfect view of the spot women stand to adjust things in the full length mirror before leaving the bathroom.

Should management have thoroughly investigated the implications before adding the window? Yes.
You will still get fired for staring.

Turelus · July 2016

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I am happy to hear there are bans for this.
Yes, ZOS should have fixed it before it went live, but the people using the bug to glitch into keeps also knew it's wrong without anyone telling them. Just like the people who used the survey glitch knew. It's not that nobody knew it was wrong, just that they didn't think they would be punished for it, given past history. I am glad Zenimax is taking baby steps to change that impression.

Let me share a real life allegory of my thinking on this. Yes, this is a true, ongoing story.

My work recently added a clear glass window to the ladies room where I work. It's in a high traffic hallway area, and from the doorway exiting the stairwell it offers a perfect view of the spot women stand to adjust things in the full length mirror before leaving the bathroom.

Should management have thoroughly investigated the implications before adding the window? Yes.
You will still get fired for staring.

Someone at your company is losing a job.

Just... like wow, glass windows to a rest room... That's dumb before you even check if shows something it shouldn't.

SolarCat02 · July 2016

Turelus wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I am happy to hear there are bans for this.
Yes, ZOS should have fixed it before it went live, but the people using the bug to glitch into keeps also knew it's wrong without anyone telling them. Just like the people who used the survey glitch knew. It's not that nobody knew it was wrong, just that they didn't think they would be punished for it, given past history. I am glad Zenimax is taking baby steps to change that impression.

Let me share a real life allegory of my thinking on this. Yes, this is a true, ongoing story.

My work recently added a clear glass window to the ladies room where I work. It's in a high traffic hallway area, and from the doorway exiting the stairwell it offers a perfect view of the spot women stand to adjust things in the full length mirror before leaving the bathroom.

Should management have thoroughly investigated the implications before adding the window? Yes.
You will still get fired for staring.

Someone at your company is losing a job.

Just... like wow, glass windows to a rest room... That's dumb before you even check if shows something it shouldn't.

It's a poorly-enacted "safety initiative" and anything taped over the window gets pulled down. I have started walking to the building next door instead.

The men's room doesn't have one, by the way. It's also more out-of-the-way, and has about three times as much traffic.

It's a harassment lawsuit waiting to happen.

I really want to put up a sign - "In recognition of your efforts, companyname has instituted a new employee benefit. FREE PEEP SHOW!!!"
But I would rather keep my job. I don't think they would appreciate my artistic expression.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

***. Does this mean ill get banned for trying to use the Dungeon Finder?

yodased · July 2016

The person you are all talking about, the only one I know of to a tally get banned let's look at the facts:

Gap closed into inner keep and trolled people for 30+ minutes with an emp.

Then a forum post was made about it, not asking for bans, but to open a discussion on the behavior.

That person came here and openly mocked the entire process, they players they killed and the game creators themselves.

Of course they are going to make an example of such a person.

You can believe or not, but I feel horrible that anyone got caught up in a perm ban about this. At the same time, I will never be banned because I don't do anything shady.

I think Zenimax just took this opportunity to show they do no want toxic behavior in their game or their forums.

Should they have been given a vacation and a serious tongue and? Yes. Should they be removed from the game whilesale? That is debatable, but ultimately up to zos.

I can tell you this though, if you find yourself against a wall and you feel like you have to defend yourself on the forums especially, don't be trolling.

SolarCat02 · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

***. Does this mean ill get banned for trying to use the Dungeon Finder?

Only if you use a gap closer to jump ahead in the queue line.

a.k.a. Of course not. It's against the rules of the game to use bugs/features/exploits to circumvent game mechanics. Especially if it impacts the gameplay of others, such as PvP or leaderboards or the game economy.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

SolarCat02 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

***. Does this mean ill get banned for trying to use the Dungeon Finder?

Only if you use a gap closer to jump ahead in the queue line.

a.k.a. Of course not. It's against the rules of the game to use bugs/features/exploits to circumvent game mechanics. Especially if it impacts the gameplay of others, such as PvP or leaderboards or the game economy.

Well it is a known issue that people in groups get dungeons faster then those solo. So i always group up first. I would think anyone like me doing the same, is taking advantage of a known bug to abuse game mechanics. And it certainly affects others since they have to wait longer, since my 2 dps group will get matched before all those solo dpsers.

Jaronking · July 2016

How many people have been banned?Is it a widespread issue like the class speed hack bans or is it just a handle full of people who have been banned?

Sunburnt_Penguin · July 2016

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I am happy to hear there are bans for this.
Yes, ZOS should have fixed it before it went live, but the people using the bug to glitch into keeps also knew it's wrong without anyone telling them. Just like the people who used the survey glitch knew. It's not that nobody knew it was wrong, just that they didn't think they would be punished for it, given past history. I am glad Zenimax is taking baby steps to change that impression.

Let me share a real life allegory of my thinking on this. Yes, this is a true, ongoing story.

My work recently added a clear glass window to the ladies room where I work. It's in a high traffic hallway area, and from the doorway exiting the stairwell it offers a perfect view of the spot women stand to adjust things in the full length mirror before leaving the bathroom.

Should management have thoroughly investigated the implications before adding the window? Yes.
You will still get fired for staring.

@SolarCat02

That example is based on the assumption that everyone knows it's wrong and because of that, I think it's a poor example.

This is my issue:

A 27 metre gap closer that could previously get on top of small differences in terrain (rocks, boulders, stairs etc) and jump across short breaks in terrain (wall breaches), changed following a DLC to now allow someone to get on top of larger differences (Keep and Outpost walls) and jump across larger breaks in terrain (outer to inner walls).

As a result, I think this could easily be construed as intended by players because most importantly, it doesn't break any of the descriptions of skills & passives but it also could (although, this is subjective) be seen as a change in mechanics of how taking Keeps work. As I said in a previous comment, it's not as if it's doing something like sending the user 100 metres up in the air before landing on the target or the animation is ignoring physical objects - like the door thing.

I see three groups of people out of those who have used this, those that:
1. Don't come on the forums
2. Do come on the forums and only used it before ZOS officially announced - via a comment in a thread - that it's an exploit
3. Don't care whether it's an exploit or not and will use it anyway

So, in saying all of that, is it fair to reprimand those in groups 1. and 2. just to make sure you punish group 3.?

Molag_Crow · July 2016

I doubt more than 2 people were banned for using gap-closers to get up on keep walls.

Probably an Emperor or something who got up on a wall to troll a whole team, but even then, he shouldn't get more than 3 day ban for clicking a button that lifted him up onto a wall.

So many of you are defending the supposed bans like "YEAAAAAAH!!!! TOTALLY JUSTIFIED! DON'T JUST BAN THEM, EXECUTE THEM! 'MERICA!"

Focus on those who're actually cheating by using 3rd party programs to exploit the leaderboards/gold/materials/content rather than some guy pressing his gap closer to get up onto a wall.

Sunburnt_Penguin · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I doubt more than 2 people were banned for using gap-closers to get up on keep walls.

Hello Crow

Jessica or Gina said to report all those that were seen using it. Maybe it's just them trying to look like they're taking action but we know that enough reports on someone directly lead to a ban without any investigation.

Jaronking · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I doubt more than 2 people were banned for using gap-closers to get up on keep walls.

Probably an Emperor or something who got up on a wall to troll a whole team, but even then, he shouldn't get more than 3 day ban for clicking a button that lifted him up onto a wall.

So many of you are defending the supposed bans like "YEAAAAAAH!!!! TOTALLY JUSTIFIED! DON'T JUST BAN THEM, EXECUTE THEM! 'MERICA!"

Focus on those who're actually cheating by using 3rd party programs to exploit the leaderboards/gold/materials/content rather than some guy pressing his gap closer to get up onto a wall.

@Molag_Crow 1059% I completely agree with you here.

tist · July 2016

What a ridiculous way to ban people. These should be 24 hour bans at the very most. The real people who deserve perma bans are ones downloading external applications, duping, etc.. not some body using an ability in your broken game.