UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

To @rfennell_ESO: @Azurethe was banned the first time because he was standing next to someone that was cheating and was not attacking said cheater, so people in zone chat got mad at him for it. Azurethe's not a cheater, and regarding this thread he is merely making use of the game's mechanics, as many people have. It is ultimately ZOS's fault for not fixing something that has been in game for month(s?) now. Yes, it is annoying when people gap-close into keeps, but DKs and NBs have been doing it with chains/teleport strike for ages now and we have all learned to deal with it. This thread has an insane amount of QQing.

He's been banned from the forum now so I don't know if he can read tags?

It must have been a mistake, he was sitting "next to" someone that did something to get banned!

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2016

Bazeric wrote: »

And as an aside I'd like to add that this behaviour has been going on longer than this weekend and that, as always, every faction has guilty parties of this behaviour. The sooner an actual fix is made to the skills to curb this behaviour, the sooner the witchunt will end and in-game PVP will be better than forum PVP.

That's the goal. We recognize that this isn't new behavior, the negative impact it's having on PVP, and that the final resolution of this requires making it so that it isn't possible to do. Until we do, if certain individuals are rampantly exploiting, reporting them with proof is helpful.

a1i3nz · July 2016

They obviously knew about it on PTS and decided the trade off was worth the end results (fixing gap closers). Exploit, sure. But you can't expect people not to do it. It's a video game dude. If it's making you that upset maybe play another game until it gets patched.
Jeez I swear some of these threads should have rusted over by now qq

Zheg · July 2016

Lord-Stien wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not to also throw rocks on your parade but, ( Pick's up rocks).

The fact of the matter is that.
1. How long have we let stuff go on like this?
People have been using abilities to do unintended stuff in PVP and PVE for the longest time...
2. It takes a massive crap storm to appear on the forums to get any response from you and or your co workers..
3. If someone is using abilities that they know that has unintended reactions... no more 3 day banns... PERMA banns.. stop messing around.
4. Look at Blizzard and other such Dev Company s... they have a no bull sh!t policy on cheating and or exploiting..
5. Now we have people who use these abilities to have a unfair advantage on the other players. and claim that is is a L2P issues when in fact it is a ( hey yes this is glitchy, you better not use it in a bad way .. or permma bann)

IT IS TIME FOR THE SECOND BANN WAVE.

There was a first ban wave?

Some_Guy · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

Hi, yes, I reported an example like this, including the very same individuals Mr @Yodased has a problem with and got no response. I have both a screen shot of one individual saying that they know they are abusing it and it's YOUR problem (ZOS), and I have a video of said group gap closing into Bleaker's Outpost. The video shows all the walls up and the door at 100%. Not a single piece of siege even in sight.
I got no answer.
I understand you can't discuss disciplinary actions with us, but the fact that this exact same group of players is still running in the exact same campaign, doing the exact same thing, with the exact same attitude is exactly why so many players have faith issues.
So, as I have asked in my report, and in another forum post, where would you like me to send the video?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274997/gap-closer-challenge-to-zenimax#latest

SirDopey · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

And as an aside I'd like to add that this behaviour has been going on longer than this weekend and that, as always, every faction has guilty parties of this behaviour. The sooner an actual fix is made to the skills to curb this behaviour, the sooner the witchunt will end and in-game PVP will be better than forum PVP.

That's the goal. We recognize that this isn't new behavior, the negative impact it's having on PVP, and that the final resolution of this requires making it so that it isn't possible to do. Until we do, if certain individuals are rampantly exploiting, reporting them with proof is helpful.

So its just rampantly exploiting we're worried about? The occasional leap of faith is ok?

Cazzy · July 2016

I also want to say from the other side of things - I'm a magicka NB with teleportation strike but I actively disable it and replace it when I go into PvP. I feel dirty using it, even innocently.

Some_Guy · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

I also want to say from the other side of things - I'm a magicka NB with teleportation strike but I actively disable it and replace it when I go into PvP. I feel dirty using it, even innocently.

There's nothing wrong with using the abilities as intended. I have a gap closer on every single one of my toons. You have to have something for this type of open area PvP. But using it to bypass the mechanics built in, especially when you KNOW you aren't supposed to do it, because the Devs even told you that you aren't supposed to...? Two totally different things.

Nifty2g · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

And as an aside I'd like to add that this behaviour has been going on longer than this weekend and that, as always, every faction has guilty parties of this behaviour. The sooner an actual fix is made to the skills to curb this behaviour, the sooner the witchunt will end and in-game PVP will be better than forum PVP.

That's the goal. We recognize that this isn't new behavior, the negative impact it's having on PVP, and that the final resolution of this requires making it so that it isn't possible to do. Until we do, if certain individuals are rampantly exploiting, reporting them with proof is helpful.

'
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom what happens in the instance of a mistake? Let's say for example because everyone uses a gap closer and it's highly easy to get onto a keep you just have to missclick a button and you're up. But then you have a whole faction of around 30 players reporting you and you get banned. Then it could happen again by mistake and you're seen as a repeated offender

I'm just wondering if there's a better way to deal with it cause it kinda sucks if you press the wrong button or something

I know the difference between a mistake and then people doing it with malicious intent, but there are some people on the forums who just view it as cheating is cheating

dashima · July 2016

If I can be honest, nothing that Azurethe or the others did suggested to me that they were doing anything more than the mass wall-jump, but if there's evidence that they have actually cheated, that is news to me and I think that should be made transparent.

Not trying to defend them - they deserve this negativity and Azurethe's ban here serves as proof that they are in the wrong - but in general, I don't want this good thing (ZOS finally coming forth with a statement) to be ruined by players all over the place demanding bans for every exploit/bug that has existed for a very long time and is often not in the player's control.

Example that I posted before:

This is a rare bug where the door to a keep (whether friendly or enemy) does not appear and the player can run in and out of it at will. It only works for said player, and all other players usually don't have the same bug at the same time, so you can imagine the trouble this sort of thing can cause. Where's the ETA on that pls?

Among the gap-closer exploit and the instance above, there are lots of other problems. It would be great if instead of going on a massive reporting spree, we could get an actual fix so that exploits like these aren't possible in the first place.

I personally have no issues with the occassional wall-jumper but I've seen Braidas/Vanus do this repeatedly with an organized group and like.... well, look at what they did. went and got themselves exposed.

Nifty2g · July 2016

dashima wrote: »

If I can be honest, nothing that Azurethe or the others did suggested to me that they were doing anything more than the mass wall-jump, but if there's evidence that they have actually cheated, that is news to me and I think that should be made transparent.

Not trying to defend them - they deserve this negativity and Azurethe's ban here serves as proof that they are in the wrong - but in general, I don't want this good thing (ZOS finally coming forth with a statement) to be ruined by players all over the place demanding bans for every exploit/bug that has existed for a very long time and is often not in the player's control.

Example that I posted before:

This is a rare bug where the door to a keep (whether friendly or enemy) does not appear and the player can run in and out of it at will. It only works for said player, and all other players usually don't have the same bug at the same time, so you can imagine the trouble this sort of thing can cause. Where's the ETA on that pls?

Among the gap-closer exploit and the instance above, there are lots of other problems. It would be great if instead of going on a massive reporting spree, we could get an actual fix so that exploits like these aren't possible in the first place.

I personally have no issues with the occassional wall-jumper but I've seen Braidas/Vanus do this with an organized raid and like.... well, look at what you did. went and got yourselves exposed.

I agree, I think we should see a high priority on the fix for this exploit. I feel like mass reporting in this instance is going to cause some harm to innocent players

Xexpo · July 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

When were you told that @Curragraigue ? link?

Zenetrax · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not to also throw rocks on your parade but, ( Pick's up rocks).

The fact of the matter is that.
1. How long have we let stuff go on like this?
People have been using abilities to do unintended stuff in PVP and PVE for the longest time...
2. It takes a massive crap storm to appear on the forums to get any response from you and or your co workers..
3. If someone is using abilities that they know that has unintended reactions... no more 3 day banns... PERMA banns.. stop messing around.
4. Look at Blizzard and other such Dev Company s... they have a no bull sh!t policy on cheating and or exploiting..
5. Now we have people who use these abilities to have a unfair advantage on the other players. and claim that is is a L2P issues when in fact it is a ( hey yes this is glitchy, you better not use it in a bad way .. or permma bann)

IT IS TIME FOR THE SECOND BANN WAVE.

There was a first ban wave?

Ban exploiters? Exploiters are just using in-game holes. Cheaters, in fact, use third-party programs that aren't in-game, made them god mode, and they got unbanned. If exploiters will do get a perma ban they will going to get unbanned eventually.

OGLezard · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

i hope all the streamers who i watched AND reported yesterday and today see this. Also @ZOS_JessicaFolsom what about those in this thread who admitted to using it lol or is that ignored?

Cazzy · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people

^

OGLezard · July 2016

Outer_Rim wrote: »

Failgrush might need to delete those VOD's fast before someone records them and sends them in the audio of mEssah asking if they going to "use the grappling hooks" is just PRICELESS.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom i wonder how you peeps are going to handle your well known streamers doing this all the time. Will the "i didnt know it was an exploit" cry get them off the hook?

Akgurd · July 2016

What really concerns us the most is that community manager acknowledgement means literally nothing when zos dev/service teams are way too slow on solving a issue.

No offense to Jessica or other community managers for doing their best job while being tagged on every post, receiving thousands of same complains every day and night tho.

Thornen · July 2016

OGLezard wrote: »

Outer_Rim wrote: »

Failgrush might need to delete those VOD's fast before someone records them and sends them in the audio of mEssah asking if they going to "use the grappling hooks" is just PRICELESS.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom i wonder how you peeps are going to handle your well known streamers doing this all the time. Will the "i didnt know it was an exploit" cry get them off the hook?

No but the I promise ill never do it again will.

The real issue here is stop banning people and just fix gap closers....

Stratforge · July 2016

Prediction: Nobody gets banned because of the mewling of crybaddies.

Another prediction: ZoS actually fixes the problem now thanks to this hubub. And for that, @yodased, thank you. Sincerely. Even though this thread got a little sketchy at times, you got people talking and got the attention of mods. Good work.

Thrasher91604 · July 2016

Stratforge wrote: »

Prediction: Nobody gets banned because of the mewling of crybaddies.

cheaters. Cheaters, liars, and thieves. First to make excuses not to ban...

OGLezard · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people ^

@Cazzy i see this ^_^ now all we can do is hope zos holds these people accountable. Sad that zos has to remind everyone for a second time that it is indeed an exploit

Thornen · July 2016

OGLezard wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people ^

@Cazzy i see this ^_^ now all we can do is hope zos holds these people accountable. Sad that zos has to remind everyone for a second time that it is indeed an exploit

Except the majority of players that never even visit the forums...

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

Stop placing blame on players and calling for bans. You should all be placing the blame on ZOS for pushing broken mechanics to live and then never fixing them.

KingMagaw · July 2016

Azurethe wrote: »

Have a laugh? I was Role Playing

If you had read what I said earlier, I said now that I got a response from ZOS that it is 100% officially labeled an exploit, I will cease all actions with it

Too late my man too late lol

OGLezard · July 2016

Thornen wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people ^

@Cazzy i see this ^_^ now all we can do is hope zos holds these people accountable. Sad that zos has to remind everyone for a second time that it is indeed an exploit

Except the majority of players that never even visit the forums...

More people should use the forum ,toxic post clustered or not, to get this kind of info so they can see stuff like this isnt allowed. I like yodas idea about cyrodill rules of engagement official zos thread that jessica said she will start.

it can be stickied and everyonre can go there for updated dos and do nots

Stratforge · July 2016

OGLezard wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people ^

@Cazzy i see this ^_^ now all we can do is hope zos holds these people accountable. Sad that zos has to remind everyone for a second time that it is indeed an exploit

Except the majority of players that never even visit the forums...

More people should use the forum ,toxic post clustered or not, to get this kind of info so they can see stuff like this isnt allowed. I like yodas idea about cyrodill rules of engagement official zos thread that jessica said she will start.

it can be stickied and everyonre can go there for updated dos and do nots

As fun as this Kabuki BS would be, you know what would be better than a Rules of Engagement sticky thread? ZoS fixing the broken mechanics and all possible in-game actions go back to being permissible. Boom problem solved.

OGLezard · July 2016

Stratforge wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@OGLezard the people in the thread have been reported to the appropriate people ^

@Cazzy i see this ^_^ now all we can do is hope zos holds these people accountable. Sad that zos has to remind everyone for a second time that it is indeed an exploit

Except the majority of players that never even visit the forums...

More people should use the forum ,toxic post clustered or not, to get this kind of info so they can see stuff like this isnt allowed. I like yodas idea about cyrodill rules of engagement official zos thread that jessica said she will start.

it can be stickied and everyonre can go there for updated dos and do nots

As fun as this Kabuki BS would be, you know what would be better than a Rules of Engagement sticky thread? ZoS fixing the broken mechanics and all possible in-game actions go back to being permissible. Boom problem solved.

Agreed, but until then we need something.

Casandra · July 2016

So sick and tired of this..... so stupid.... How does this feel like fighting???? The exploiting into a keep doesn't have any thing to do with playing as intended which is killing the enemy taking down the wall ... killing guards and taking the keep or scrolls?

So many people are so fed up with this that they really plan on leaving the game.... with all the rest of the exploiting and ohhh yeah..... don't forget all the "perma banned" exploiting cheating players.... that are BACK in the game...

So... what does "perma banned" mean anyway.....

OH.... one more thing.... the fix this morning.... 5 min. wait to respawn at a camp LOL.... very laughable... Don't need camps when you can exploit in and you are an emp. ha ha ha.... ridiculous

Come on ZOS hope you can do better than this... Try playing the game for a while.....

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

Well @Zheg , we already had one ban for this tonight . What do you think ? Ya think people will spread the word and knock it off or risk it ? My money's on a calmer Cyrodiil . I may just return now and participate .

Zheg · July 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Well @Zheg , we already had one ban for this tonight . What do you think ? Ya think people will spread the word and knock it off or risk it ? My money's on a calmer Cyrodiil . I may just return now and participate .

Only one forum ban? The mods are slacking.