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Why are people still upset with Race Change / Racial Passives / Khajiit?

MrTarkanian48
MrTarkanian48
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Yes, I have a Khajiit NB (among 5 other CP 160 toons). When they announced race change (prior to the specific details of racial passive changes) I was excited because I planned on changing to a Wood Elf. It was the superior choice for my particular build.

Now that Khajiits appear to be getting a stamina buff, I will not need to change. Great for me.

On the other hand, if they don't get the buff in August, I'm trimming the tail and fur, and becoming a Wood Elf. Also great for me.

I do not really understand the QQ regarding racial passive changes (Other than perhaps boosts to AP gains), now that RACE CHANGE is being implemented.

The huge problem with racial passives in the past was the amount of time it took to grind a character to V16. If you chose a non-optimal race, it would take you a very long time to level a new character with your preferred race of choice.

Now that is gone. You can level a character to vet ranks in a day or two. And with race change, you can just swap to the race of your choice at any time.

Everyone wanted race change. Now its here and people still are PO'ed about their race not getting a buff, or another race not getting nerfed to their level?

I personally like the change to Khajiit. Not because I am one, but because it will be a powerful option for me and for everyone else. If they were to buff an Imperial in the same way I would be happy, because I can switch to Imperial and benefit from their passives.

No matter how much they attempt to balance races, anyone interested in min-max builds will be able to break down each race and find which one provides the best options for their particular builds. Choose accordingly.
Wood Elf Stam NB (PVP)
Redguard Stam Sorc (PVP)
Altmer NB (DPS)
Imperial DK (Tank)
Redguard DK (DPS)
Altmer Templar (Healer)

EP - PS4
  • argouru
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    I just this morning created a khajiit stamplar because of the upcoming changes. I look forward to them on all but my orc character, who has already maxed out every crafting skill line, so the new buff to crafting inspiration will instantly be useless for him. :(
  • MrTarkanian48
    MrTarkanian48
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    code65536 wrote: »
    The fact that there's a race change is totally irrelevant and is a red herring. It's an unbalanced change that gives the top stam PvE DPS class even more DPS. It removes meaningful choice for people who care about performance.

    The idea is for a Tamriel that has good representation of all the races. When everyone starts rolling (or race-changing to) Khajiit, that does not make for a balanced game.

    And the more cynical perspective is that, now that ZOS can profit from race changes, having an imbalance like this is a money-grab.

    I understand where you're coming from, and I totally agree with the ideals of having a diverse population with all races included. I am not promoting the change to Khajiit, though I am not opposed to it. You won't see me QQ if they tweak the proposed change on PTS and tone it down.

    My only thing is that there has never really been balance. Every patch people are campaigning for the same things, "Buff X Race, Nerf Y Race etc." Some changes are made, however, they never really make things equal.

    Anyone that has played the game awhile, and can do a little math can look at any races passives and determine what is best for what they are trying to accomplish. Even though ideally I would like to have to make a difficult choice when I decide a race, I doubt that I will ever have to. Regardless of what changes are made, there will always be an ideal setup.

    People seem to have an unrealistic expectation. On one hand its, "I'm tired of the cookie cutter FOTM builds, I want something that is unique" On the other hand, "I can't do the absolute top DPS since I'm not a Khajiit Stam DK in the DB patch." There will always be one class/race/gear/skill rotation combination that outperforms others. In this game, Unique and Equal are mutually exclusive.

    It seems that ZOS is tired of a lot of these various complaints, but instead of long sleepless nights trying to find the perfect balance for everyone's preference they've taken a different approach.

    Instead of fixing and balancing the current options (which they have not been able to do since as long as I can remember), they are presenting unbalanced options and giving the players the option to choose what they want and make changes with a relatively low time investment. Instead of weeks/months of grinding a new character it has been reduced to days. Don't like your race, fine, change it in 2 minutes. You can now spend a couple weeks leveling one character of each class and essentially have access to all possible build combinations.

    I personally love this change. I don't really understand why other people get so bent out of shape over race, now that you can change it. If you're just hellbent on playing a particular race and style, than the burden is on you to make it work, and accept that while it may work, it also may not be equivalent to the absolute best combination created.

    Edit: Regarding the money grab. Yeah, I can see that as an issue. I am curious to see how they price this in the crown store...
    Edited by MrTarkanian48 on June 28, 2016 9:14PM
    Wood Elf Stam NB (PVP)
    Redguard Stam Sorc (PVP)
    Altmer NB (DPS)
    Imperial DK (Tank)
    Redguard DK (DPS)
    Altmer Templar (Healer)

    EP - PS4
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    code65536 wrote: »
    The fact that there's a race change is totally irrelevant and is a red herring. It's an unbalanced change that gives the top stam PvE DPS class even more DPS. It removes meaningful choice for people who care about performance.

    The idea is for a Tamriel that has good representation of all the races. When everyone starts rolling (or race-changing to) Khajiit, that does not make for a balanced game.

    And the more cynical perspective is that, now that ZOS can profit from race changes, having an imbalance like this is a money-grab.

    LOL, what? Since when was Khajiit the "top" choice for anything except coughing up hairballs? Every stamina build guide I've ever seen recommends Redguard as the best choice, with Khajiit way down the list under Bosmer and Imperials and even Orcs (hat tip to Lord FENGRUSH).

    As the proud player of Khajiit Stam Sorc, I love swishing my tail, but I was never under any illusion that my racial choice was "best in slot" or FOTM or anything else. Are you even aware that Khajiits' most interesting passive, Carnage, was BUGGED for months and months? It didn't increase your weapon crit at all!

    Where is all this revisionist history coming from? Why are people trying to get Khajiit nerfed before we've even been buffed?
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    code65536 wrote: »
    The fact that there's a race change is totally irrelevant and is a red herring. It's an unbalanced change that gives the top stam PvE DPS class even more DPS. It removes meaningful choice for people who care about performance.

    The idea is for a Tamriel that has good representation of all the races. When everyone starts rolling (or race-changing to) Khajiit, that does not make for a balanced game.

    And the more cynical perspective is that, now that ZOS can profit from race changes, having an imbalance like this is a money-grab.


    This is a bad joke.

    Race change is being implemented because a majority of the people who play and post here have asked and begged for it. This was not a ZOS invention to to hijack your wallet even though I'm of the opinion that is what they intend to do.

    People asked for it.

    ZOS dedicated the hours to create.

    ZOS sells the people what they asked for.

    The people get what a great many wanted.

    ZOS profits.

    They did all this after making re-rolling much easier by removing VR and streamlining leveling and experience gains. So they worked on and introduced the non pay option first and ten gave people the checkbook method second.

    Looks to me like there are plenty of meaningful choices.
  • whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
    whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
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    code65536 wrote: »
    The fact that there's a race change is totally irrelevant and is a red herring. It's an unbalanced change that gives the top stam PvE DPS class even more DPS. It removes meaningful choice for people who care about performance.

    The idea is for a Tamriel that has good representation of all the races. When everyone starts rolling (or race-changing to) Khajiit, that does not make for a balanced game.

    And the more cynical perspective is that, now that ZOS can profit from race changes, having an imbalance like this is a money-grab.

    LOL, what? Since when was Khajiit the "top" choice for anything except coughing up hairballs? Every stamina build guide I've ever seen recommends Redguard as the best choice, with Khajiit way down the list under Bosmer and Imperials and even Orcs (hat tip to Lord FENGRUSH).

    As the proud player of Khajiit Stam Sorc, I love swishing my tail, but I was never under any illusion that my racial choice was "best in slot" or FOTM or anything else. Are you even aware that Khajiits' most interesting passive, Carnage, was BUGGED for months and months? It didn't increase your weapon crit at all!

    Where is all this revisionist history coming from? Why are people trying to get Khajiit nerfed before we've even been buffed?

    Because it's a power shift and the Majority (that do not have Khajiit Characters) do not want a power shift, someone even suggested they wanted ZOS to upgrade the Imperials Stamina Attribute amount from 10% to 15%, which is just ridiculous.

    I say if ZOS isn't gonna up the Stamina to 6% on the race then they should add a 5-6% Health Attribute bonus to the Khajiit race, on live the Khajiit are the only Race without a Attribute bonus compared to all other races and needs a attribute bonus.

    And you are right, for like 6 months the Khajiit race was without our Carnage passive, which was ridiculous..
    Signed,
    Kotaro Atani.
    PS4 NA
    VR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS4, and of course Master Thief. currently 1333 out of 3600 on NA PS4. Currently 728 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS4 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS4 except for maybe two Motifs.

    Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade.

    Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home !

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.

    (All 18 characters are AD only!)

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/members/kotaro-atani/ / http://i58.tinypic.com/25p6yd2.png http://i66.tinypic.com/5bc5e.png

    Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS4 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS4 is my dedicated Game Platform.

    Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)

    Things ZOS needs to Fix:"Lag in PvP" / AOE's need to run for their time stated in the Tool Tip, especially Ultimate's / Smart drops are still not smart / Fix it ZOS, fix it.

    "The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past..."
    "Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door..."
    "A perfect society is always elsewhere..."
    - Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Your OP assumes people only picked their race because of a power gaming, min-max, what is best for my build calculation.

    Not "everybody wanted race change." I have zero desire to spend my crowns or whatever to completely changed the most basic identity of the characters I have played for over two years.

    For two years, I wanted racial balance, free at that (or at least covered in the cost I have paid for the game), which is quite a different thing.

    And, yes, QQ. Of course you don't see a problem that the strong race you are playing and is suited to your build is getting buffed. Not everyone is in the same position as you or is willing to just throw two plus years of the character's identity away to ZoS's Crown store for the sake of practicality.
  • xblackroxe
    xblackroxe
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    The most arguments about Khajiit are about PvE.
    Khajiit was already the best DPS race for PvE and got another buff making it even more superior to every other race. Thats why people talk about it.
    Member of HODOR

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
  • whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
    whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
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    I can tell you now, no matter what they do the the Khajiit I will not be race changing.

    I picked my races not to min/max but as my preference in the game.

    My Argonian Magicka Nightblade healer, he was the 2nd character I ever created and made him to do dungeons with my guild.

    Also, I knew my main character would be a Khajiit before the game even came to the PTS (Private Test Server) and the game was in Beta on PC.

    I can actually say that of all my characters, Currently 11, I will more than likely never change their race with ZOS's race change option.

    I play the game to enjoy it, I don't do extreme Min/Maxing and change my race or follow FOTM builds..

    I do find some builds I like online and slightly emulate them, for example I have a Critty Kat (Khajiit Nightblade) build that is similar to Deltia's PVE Specter build and have a StamSorc based on Alcast's Blink build but with changes.
    Edited by whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO on June 28, 2016 10:28PM
    Signed,
    Kotaro Atani.
    PS4 NA
    VR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS4, and of course Master Thief. currently 1333 out of 3600 on NA PS4. Currently 728 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS4 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS4 except for maybe two Motifs.

    Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade.

    Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home !

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.

    (All 18 characters are AD only!)

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/members/kotaro-atani/ / http://i58.tinypic.com/25p6yd2.png http://i66.tinypic.com/5bc5e.png

    Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS4 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS4 is my dedicated Game Platform.

    Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)

    Things ZOS needs to Fix:"Lag in PvP" / AOE's need to run for their time stated in the Tool Tip, especially Ultimate's / Smart drops are still not smart / Fix it ZOS, fix it.

    "The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past..."
    "Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door..."
    "A perfect society is always elsewhere..."
    - Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.
  • whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
    whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Look, I wouldn't care if Nords got huge buffs and suddenly became best PvE race.

    I wouldn't care if it happened to Imperials, or Argonians, or Bosmer.

    But buffing what is already the best PvE stamina race is ludicrous and makes no sense whatsoever balance wise.

    Maybe you can live with a world where every competitive PvE player in your group is a freaking cat - I can't.

    People like me were expecting buffs for the races that needed buffs (don't get me wrong, Khajiit could use some buffs, but not PvE ones) - not more buffs to the already strong races.

    Hey I just want a Attribute bonus for the Khajiit, a Health bonus would be fine in my book...
    Signed,
    Kotaro Atani.
    PS4 NA
    VR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS4, and of course Master Thief. currently 1333 out of 3600 on NA PS4. Currently 728 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS4 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS4 except for maybe two Motifs.

    Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade.

    Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home !

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.

    (All 18 characters are AD only!)

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/members/kotaro-atani/ / http://i58.tinypic.com/25p6yd2.png http://i66.tinypic.com/5bc5e.png

    Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS4 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS4 is my dedicated Game Platform.

    Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)

    Things ZOS needs to Fix:"Lag in PvP" / AOE's need to run for their time stated in the Tool Tip, especially Ultimate's / Smart drops are still not smart / Fix it ZOS, fix it.

    "The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past..."
    "Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door..."
    "A perfect society is always elsewhere..."
    - Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Sorry, but NO BUFF would be enough to get me to run around as a cat flinging a tail around... I am not spending hundreds of hours trying to immerse myself into feeling like a cat. No thanks! I think these kind of issues are not for players who actually RP, but instead see their characters solely as numbers flying on the screen... a character with no heart and soul. Otherwise, they would take the time to make the best of a race that they feel drawn to, create a character with meaning, not just picking one that has the best numbers attached.
    Started ESO: May 2015-Quit: Sept 2018
    PC-NA AD
    Champion Points: 1004
    ESO+
    Morrowind/Summerset
    ** Strictly a solo PvE quester **
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    someone even suggested they wanted ZOS to upgrade the Imperials Stamina Attribute amount from 10% to 15%, which is just ridiculous.

    @whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

    Is 15% stamina truely that ridiculous? They did just add an additional 6% maximum stamina to khajiits, the best stamina dps race in the game. This buff to Imperials is technically worse then the ones given to Khajiits as its only a 5% increase.

    Would 15% or even 12% max stamina make Imperials stand out to much? Would you give up how op Redguard sustain is over this slight increase to max stam? I know many players would not.

    Remember that this after all is just a suggestion. I personally think it would be a good idea and would also make choosing stamina races that much harder to do.

    In another thread it was said the 8% crit chance khajiits have nets 8% dps increase, while 10% max stam nets about 4%. So a buff to max stam for Imperials (15% up from 10%) would mean an extra 2% dps. Khajiits would still be top pve dps with this change, doesnt sound ridiculous to me.
    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on June 29, 2016 1:15AM
    PS4 NA DC
  • whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
    whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
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    someone even suggested they wanted ZOS to upgrade the Imperials Stamina Attribute amount from 10% to 15%, which is just ridiculous.

    @whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

    Is 15% stamina truely that ridiculous? They did just add an additional 6% maximum stamina to khajiits, the best stamina dps race in the game. This buff to Imperials is technically worse then the ones given to Khajiits as its only a 5% increase.

    Would 15% or even 12% max stamina make Imperials stand out to much? Would you give up how op Redguard sustain is over this slight increase to max stam? I know many players would not.

    Remember that this after all is just a suggestion. I personally think it would be a good idea and would also make choosing stamina races that much harder to do.

    Seriously, I don't expect that 6% buff to Stam on the Khajiit to go through, for Balance the race does need an attribute bonus though, but like I said a Health Attribute bonus would be fine. Now if ZOS does it, goes through with it and leaves the 6% stam on the Khajiit then they are doing it for only one reason, Money/Crowns...and they are testing people to see if it works or not..

    and by the way, Imperials have been OP since day one at PC launch with their extra stats, matter of fact if I was gonna call for a Nerf, which I never have by the way, it would have been that race, but since they are behind a paywall (pay to win) ZOS wouldn't hear about lowering the stats even when the majority of people complained about them in Beta after we found out about them (since ZOS was trying to be sneaky and hide them from us the whole time until Amazon put a picture up of the Imperial edition on some other game they were selling).

    http://mwap.me.uk/game-industry-news/the-elder-scrolls-online-imperial-edition-leaked.html

    91ETo-bEBAL._SL3500_.jpg
    Edited by whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO on June 29, 2016 1:21AM
    Signed,
    Kotaro Atani.
    PS4 NA
    VR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS4, and of course Master Thief. currently 1333 out of 3600 on NA PS4. Currently 728 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS4 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS4 except for maybe two Motifs.

    Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade.

    Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home !

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.

    (All 18 characters are AD only!)

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/members/kotaro-atani/ / http://i58.tinypic.com/25p6yd2.png http://i66.tinypic.com/5bc5e.png

    Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS4 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS4 is my dedicated Game Platform.

    Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)

    Things ZOS needs to Fix:"Lag in PvP" / AOE's need to run for their time stated in the Tool Tip, especially Ultimate's / Smart drops are still not smart / Fix it ZOS, fix it.

    "The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past..."
    "Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door..."
    "A perfect society is always elsewhere..."
    - Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.
  • whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
    whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO
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    In another thread it was said the 8% crit chance khajiits have nets 8% dps increase, while 10% max stam nets about 4%. So a buff to max stam for Imperials (15% up from 10%) would mean an extra 2% dps. Khajiits would still be top pve dps with this change, doesnt sound ridiculous to me.

    And since we are talking about Balance..

    that 8% DPS for Khajiit only effects really PvE, in PvP that 8% DPS can mean nothing because of Resistant (champion points under the Steed) and Impenetrable traits on armor..and you cannot crit' shields (so basically the Carnage passive doesn't really work there) but the Imperial race still has it's extra Health and Stamina does it not.. it will always do it's DPS no matter what, in either PvP or PvE and still have a larger Stamina and Health pool. and remember that larger Health pool allows Imperial Stam builds to put all their Attribute points into Stam and still have a larger health pool..

    A Khajiit running all 64 Attribute points into stamina will be very short on Health and if there wasn't the Cyrodiil health buff they would be way under 20k. I remember a time when Battle Spirit in PvP wasn't a thing and you only had food.. It's not just about DPS...

    Edited by whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO on June 29, 2016 2:02AM
    Signed,
    Kotaro Atani.
    PS4 NA
    VR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS4, and of course Master Thief. currently 1333 out of 3600 on NA PS4. Currently 728 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS4 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS4 except for maybe two Motifs.

    Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade.

    Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home !

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.

    (All 18 characters are AD only!)

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  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    Or it had nothing to do with Khajiits at all and ZOS listened to the thread of people complain about how useless the robust passive was/is.

    As I know of at least more racial passive that had robust removed for something better.

    Edited by acw37162 on June 29, 2016 4:11AM
  • GreenTea
    GreenTea
    ✭✭✭
    I think it's important to remember that ZoS has pushed the idea that you can play how you want since the beginning.

    The imbalance of racial passives pushes the idea of there is a "right" race to pick for the build you want. It's not new, but it's something that isn't being addressed.

    I'm not a hardcore PvE or PvPer, but I am an RPer. My main I've played is an off-heal mageblade Khajiit since early access
    named Tea. And she is my favorite character who I would never think about a race change for. The stamina buff feels like ZoS is saying "You build Khajiit this way, not with magic. You can't use magic, you are a cat. Silly cat. You should play an Altmer if you want to do that." Because we all know Khajiit are just cats who know no magic. What is the balancing team, a bunch of imperials scholars?

    I'll never min/max because to me playing races and classes I enjoy are more valuable as a player to me. I already dropped the idea of playing a nightblade healer. Yes I know people say "Oh yeah it's totally possible", but because I don't have the passives/CP/gear to pull it off, I def. can't. So I try and poorly DPS, but in long fights I always run out of magicka. I'm working on my build, but I was hoping some sort of bone would get thrown to Khajiit mages with this patch....

    So coming from a third tier scrub, I just hope they work more on making both magicka & stam builds on all races reasonably viable. You shouldn't need the best gear just to be 'okay'. :'(
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  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    code65536 wrote: »
    The fact that there's a race change is totally irrelevant and is a red herring. It's an unbalanced change that gives the top stam PvE DPS class even more DPS. It removes meaningful choice for people who care about performance.

    The idea is for a Tamriel that has good representation of all the races. When everyone starts rolling (or race-changing to) Khajiit, that does not make for a balanced game.

    And the more cynical perspective is that, now that ZOS can profit from race changes, having an imbalance like this is a money-grab.

    LOL, what? Since when was Khajiit the "top" choice for anything except coughing up hairballs? Every stamina build guide I've ever seen recommends Redguard as the best choice, with Khajiit way down the list under Bosmer and Imperials and even Orcs (hat tip to Lord FENGRUSH).

    As the proud player of Khajiit Stam Sorc, I love swishing my tail, but I was never under any illusion that my racial choice was "best in slot" or FOTM or anything else. Are you even aware that Khajiits' most interesting passive, Carnage, was BUGGED for months and months? It didn't increase your weapon crit at all!

    Where is all this revisionist history coming from? Why are people trying to get Khajiit nerfed before we've even been buffed?

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  • Jar_Ek
    Jar_Ek
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    Although this discussion has focused on the khajit changes, the question was why people are upset. The answer is that zos have swapped one set of imbalances for another and in the process will have broken a variety of racial builds (notably Argonian tanks). As the race and name changes are not free and no plans to offer free changes have been mentioned, then those affected negatively are justifiably upset.

    Add in the fact that people have played their characters for over 2 years only to have the very ground they stand on shifted...
  • luxfreak
    luxfreak
    ✭✭✭
    In my opinion, or at least what i am upset about is, not the fact that kahjits are the strongest.
    It will be nearyl impossible to realy balance the races completly equal, while giving them still a feeling of uniqness.
    What realy upsets me is the fact, that Kahjits OUTCLASSES every other stamina race by far.
    And while Kahjits got a real Buff, Woodelfs got a neat, but nearly usless buff.
    The absolute imbalance is what upsets me. As in, does ZoS even thinks about what they do, what it means for the balance?
    Do they even spent a second thought about what shoots into there head?
    Im upset about the simple stupidity thats implemented in this patch.
    About the obviouse no-care-for-balance attitude that is shown.
    Edited by luxfreak on June 29, 2016 12:21PM
    Tank/DD with Hof HM clear
  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    its really simple,

    they are trying to balance races.

    allowing people to switch to clearly stronger races is not what balance is.

    some people care about balance and state when things are vastly superior and therefore not balanced.

    seeing that most agree that redguard is best pvp stam race and cats are strongest pve stam race, how is it surprising that buffing it further will widen the race gap and not close it. if there is no reason to play any other race aside from rp then that is not balance.

    basically your saying its easy to get the op races so balance dosent matter.
  • khele23eb17_ESO
    khele23eb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I have a Khajiit NB (among 5 other CP 160 toons). When they announced race change (prior to the specific details of racial passive changes) I was excited because I planned on changing to a Wood Elf. It was the superior choice for my particular build.

    Now that Khajiits appear to be getting a stamina buff, I will not need to change. Great for me.

    On the other hand, if they don't get the buff in August, I'm trimming the tail and fur, and becoming a Wood Elf. Also great for me.

    I do not really understand the QQ regarding racial passive changes (Other than perhaps boosts to AP gains), now that RACE CHANGE is being implemented.

    The huge problem with racial passives in the past was the amount of time it took to grind a character to V16. If you chose a non-optimal race, it would take you a very long time to level a new character with your preferred race of choice.

    Now that is gone. You can level a character to vet ranks in a day or two. And with race change, you can just swap to the race of your choice at any time.

    Everyone wanted race change. Now its here and people still are PO'ed about their race not getting a buff, or another race not getting nerfed to their level?

    I personally like the change to Khajiit. Not because I am one, but because it will be a powerful option for me and for everyone else. If they were to buff an Imperial in the same way I would be happy, because I can switch to Imperial and benefit from their passives.

    No matter how much they attempt to balance races, anyone interested in min-max builds will be able to break down each race and find which one provides the best options for their particular builds. Choose accordingly.

    First issue are racials in general. I firmly believe cosmetic choices should not influence your stats. In MMOs you want to give players the freedom to make a character look as they want and still be as effective as anyone else. I mean, imagine ZOS decided you will get 8% spell crit and 6% magicka if you play an overweight, balding character. Would you still not get why people are upset in this situation? And its basically the same thing. You either make a character that you dont like to look at or be a gimp.

    Secondly theres the issue of balance. So you just cant get rid of racials... fine. Why not balance them properly then? Why buff the already strongest stam dps race with more damage? Wheres the logic in that? If anything the buff should go to Bosmer - thats a way more reasonable decision balance-wise.
    Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on July 1, 2016 4:29PM
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