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Heem-Jas set is too strong

Erondil
Erondil
✭✭✭✭✭
85b9806844.jpg
Group PvP DPS this set is completely OP, in large fights there is always ennemies dying around when you need high damage so it will always be up. Heck even on a magicka build if it comes on weapons and jewelry it might be worth using. Major Berserk as of now is extremely hard to get, thats a good thing for such a strong buff but this set (if there is no cd) give potentially access to a permanent 25% damage buff, thus it needs a nerf or everybody will be using it. Either a CD (bad idea imo with such a short duration) either make it give minor berserk (would still be good for any stam dps except nightblade, although maybe not BiS) either make it give 12% more damage that stacks with minor and major berserk (the ways to get major berserk are so few and situationnal that you almost cant have everything up), either make it procc when you kill an ennemy and not when an ennemy dies. Even then it would be extremely strong as far as group PvP is concerned (6man+)
Edited by Erondil on June 28, 2016 12:04PM
~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I kinda agree with you, but I think that we can only make those conclusions after testing :smile:
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • Draxys
    Draxys
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Nikkor wrote: »
    3 seconds.

    it will be no more op than vicious death.

    lol
    2013

    rip decibel
  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nikkor wrote: »
    3 seconds.

    it will be no more op than vicious death.

    3 seconds doesnt mean anything when there is no cd and it proccs on any ennemy dying (not only the ones you kill). At least in large scale pvp with an organised group.
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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    Youtube Channel
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I agree. major Berserk is the strongest buff in the game and so far, only Nightblades (who else) have rather easy access to major berserk with the 2nd morph of Mark target. I use it on my magicka Nb and it is very very OP actually.

    And this set gives even easier access to this buff. It's stamina exclusive again, like most strong things in the game. But I agree with OP's suggestiong. Minor berserk or give it a flat value and this should not surpass 10%
    Edited by Dracane on June 28, 2016 12:18PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    if this doesnt drop in rings, then i have 1 question, why run this over hundings rage? hundings rage is stronger
    #MOREORBS
  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    if this doesnt drop in rings, then i have 1 question, why run this over hundings rage? hundings rage is stronger

    Are you saying that 688 weapon critical and 300 weapon damage is anywhere close to 25% damage increase on everything? (other set proccs, poisons, enchants..)
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    3 seconds is not a very long period of time. Radius is a big part of this theorycrafting. If it is a really small radius around the user donning the set, then he has little time to spare to make use of the bonus. If there is an obvious proc on this set, the first thing the target will do is roll dodge away. By the time the target creates distance 3 seconds will already be up.
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on June 28, 2016 2:16PM
  • Kiiiddd
    Kiiiddd
    I think the super important thing to know how good this will be in those situational fights is the Range as others have pointed out. I would guess the range is Melee Range(8m) and at that range majority of fights in Cryodil would be fine. Might get high uptime fighting in keeps and in The Imperial City
    Edited by Kiiiddd on June 28, 2016 2:43PM
  • Dakrana_Thrazvoth
    Dakrana_Thrazvoth
    ✭✭✭✭
    More precisions for the last bonus are needed. What radius exactly ?
    This set interesting for solo and small group, at least zenimax give some good sets for fight larger groups.
  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    That's ***.

    The set bonus has only 3 seconds duration, so it's likely over before you even hit the next enemy with your gap closer.

    Yes, there are enemies dying around you very often. That's what makes the set even viable in the first place (unless the radius is really small).


    Some comparisons for you:

    Minor Berserk=+8% dmg
    Hunding's Rage=+5.6%~ dmg on average (always up)
    Alchemist=+15%~ dmg (for 15 seconds)
    Viper=+4-5k burst damage (more than any of the above)


    This is an interesting set that could possibly see similar niche use to Vicious Death - there is no reason to nerf it (or Vicious Death for that matter).

    If anything, I'd toss out the regen bonus & add weapon damage instead, as that would fit the set's design philosophy better.

    Remind me the last time you played organised large scale PvP? I'm telling you 3 seconds is not a problem when you dont have to do the killing blows here
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xael wrote: »
    Erondil wrote: »
    85b9806844.jpg
    Group PvP DPS this set is completely OP, in large fights there is always ennemies dying around when you need high damage so it will always be up. Heck even on a magicka build if it comes on weapons and jewelry it might be worth using. Major Berserk as of now is extremely hard to get, thats a good thing for such a strong buff but this set (if there is no cd) give potentially access to a permanent 25% damage buff, thus it needs a nerf or everybody will be using it. Either a CD (bad idea imo with such a short duration) either make it give minor berserk (would still be good for any stam dps except nightblade, although maybe not BiS) either make it give 12% more damage that stacks with minor and major berserk (the ways to get major berserk are so few and situationnal that you almost cant have everything up), either make it procc when you kill an ennemy and not when an ennemy dies. Even then it would be extremely strong as far as group PvP is concerned (6man+)

    Or you can actually test this build before running around and yelling that the sky is falling.

    What I find absolutely ridiculous and bothersome about posts like these, YOU DIDN'T EVEN TEST IT YET AND YOU ALREADY ASK FOR A NERF!

    If this doesn't come in jewelry it will not be OP at all. Not even close.

    Since we are not testing it, let's just use our brains for a moment.
    (Keep in mind this is under the premise there are no jewelry pieces for this set)

    This 4 piece is the same as Night's Silence. I will show you the standard Stamina DPS build (5pc set, 3pc agil, 1 kena, 1 blood, Mael 2h) stats. You have under 2900 weapon damage and with Rally (Major Brutality) you have 3428.

    The proc on this set gives 25% damage for 3 seconds. That's not that big of a deal.

    There are a few things that need to be addressed and brought into the open:
    • Cyrodiil is largely a group of unskilled zerg players. This means there is a lot of lag. 3 seconds is about what it would take to find a target and close distance.
    • We don't even know what the proximity is for the buff. For this buff to be even remotely good you would need someone dying every 2 seconds within a certain proximity to keep the buff up at all times.
    • Most burst builds already have way more damage than what this set offers.
    • Requires an uncontrolled gimmick such as player death within certain proximity to be remotely effective.


    You guys need to stop posting before you actually test a thing, it's absolutely ridiculous.

    Thats why science is so cool, you can make deductions without complete test. Nobody went from sun to earth at light speed yet we know how long it takes... to test large scale pvp you have to be on live and they barely do any balances change when the patch is live we both know it
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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    Youtube Channel
  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
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    Not sure whether it would end up better than other 5 pieces. These days the meta is more hit and run burst whereas this set would probably suit a more sustained constant flow of kills. Would depend on who your fighting against (organised group or a long stream of pugs), location (open field, keep fights, tower farms etc) on whether this set would be running over something else.
    Edited by IxSTALKERxI on June 28, 2016 3:29PM
    NA | PC | Aldmeri Dominion
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  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xael wrote: »
    Erondil wrote: »
    Xael wrote: »
    Erondil wrote: »
    85b9806844.jpg
    Group PvP DPS this set is completely OP, in large fights there is always ennemies dying around when you need high damage so it will always be up. Heck even on a magicka build if it comes on weapons and jewelry it might be worth using. Major Berserk as of now is extremely hard to get, thats a good thing for such a strong buff but this set (if there is no cd) give potentially access to a permanent 25% damage buff, thus it needs a nerf or everybody will be using it. Either a CD (bad idea imo with such a short duration) either make it give minor berserk (would still be good for any stam dps except nightblade, although maybe not BiS) either make it give 12% more damage that stacks with minor and major berserk (the ways to get major berserk are so few and situationnal that you almost cant have everything up), either make it procc when you kill an ennemy and not when an ennemy dies. Even then it would be extremely strong as far as group PvP is concerned (6man+)

    Or you can actually test this build before running around and yelling that the sky is falling.

    What I find absolutely ridiculous and bothersome about posts like these, YOU DIDN'T EVEN TEST IT YET AND YOU ALREADY ASK FOR A NERF!

    If this doesn't come in jewelry it will not be OP at all. Not even close.

    Since we are not testing it, let's just use our brains for a moment.
    (Keep in mind this is under the premise there are no jewelry pieces for this set)

    This 4 piece is the same as Night's Silence. I will show you the standard Stamina DPS build (5pc set, 3pc agil, 1 kena, 1 blood, Mael 2h) stats. You have under 2900 weapon damage and with Rally (Major Brutality) you have 3428.

    The proc on this set gives 25% damage for 3 seconds. That's not that big of a deal.

    There are a few things that need to be addressed and brought into the open:
    • Cyrodiil is largely a group of unskilled zerg players. This means there is a lot of lag. 3 seconds is about what it would take to find a target and close distance.
    • We don't even know what the proximity is for the buff. For this buff to be even remotely good you would need someone dying every 2 seconds within a certain proximity to keep the buff up at all times.
    • Most burst builds already have way more damage than what this set offers.
    • Requires an uncontrolled gimmick such as player death within certain proximity to be remotely effective.


    You guys need to stop posting before you actually test a thing, it's absolutely ridiculous.

    Thats why science is so cool, you can make deductions without complete test. Nobody went from sun to earth at light speed yet we know how long it takes... to test large scale pvp you have to be on live and they barely do any balances change when the patch is live we both know it

    Whoah whoah hold on a second.
    What you are doing is NOT science. If anything this is the bastardization of the word.
    No, what you are doing is fear mongering without doing any tests at all.

    To test pvp, including large scale all you need to do is log on and run around fighting during prime time. There are plenty of people in an area. Again, something you are not doing. Moreover you ignored all my points and swept them under the rug without addressing any of the objective facts. Nothing scientific here, more like science-falsely-called.

    I meant large scale in an organised group, which I do very often (on a daylie basis) and think I'm in a much better position to claim that there is often more than 1 dead every 3 seconds with such a group. I never called what I'm doing actual science, just deducting things from fact that I experience everyday and the information given by games tooltip. Ever heard of parallelism? Because thats grossly the science process in reality.
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
    Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
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  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    What does nearby mean?

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  • Ep1kMalware
    Ep1kMalware
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    How is this OP? I wouldn't trade this for my vicious ophidian :3 I might run it on a trials healer maybe. Onlu looks good for burning down adds wi]ith aoe dmg. could be good in trials where some ADDS have millions of health.
  • Scamandros
    Scamandros
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    somewhat offtopic, but am curious if this set will proc off things like enemy engine guardian pet expiring.
    Aeryj
    Fantasia
    Blades of Vengeance


    Mighty Eagle by serjustin19 for your viewing convenience.
    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle.
    I fell out of my nest

    Mighty Eagle
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    I came face to face
    Of Mighty Lion

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    Mighty Eagle
    Then suddenly
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    Mighty Dragon roared aloud
    Who's mighty paws make earthquake
    that quivers underneath our feet

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    Soon battle rages
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    My heart grows heavy
    For who do I belong in Scourge PS4 EU

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    I continue to battle.
    But Battle I must do within myself

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    I screech, I screech
    Long and hard. I made a fuss

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Then suddenly
    As if I was dreaming

    Mighty Eagle
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    I heard a screech
    But suddenly, I attack Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle had to defend

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    I know I was fighting for Mighty Lion
    So I fought back.

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    I attack I attack
    But to no avail

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    Mighty Eagle
    The Mighty claws who's mighty claws
    Felt unnatural to me and very clumsy to me

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Why I have chosen to not stay with you
    I do not know. I am complicated at that.

    Mighty Eagle
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    I have destroyed Mighty Eagle
    My own kin in Scourge PS4 EU

    Mighty Eagle
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    I crawled into a ball
    Weep to no avail

    Mighty Eagle
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    Lost in my whirling thoughts
    My heart and mind is clouded

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    I have served Mighty Lion over a year
    I thought Mighty Lion is were I belong anew

    Mighty Eagle
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    I finally contacted
    Mighty Eagle

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    Mighty Eagle says they love me
    In reality I love them also.

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    I continued to clash
    At Mighty Eagle however

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    Mighty Eagle
    But clashing with Mighty Eagle
    Just not feel right


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    I have made a wrong choice I now believe
    Terrible and unjust of what I did

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    For am I not a monster
    For attacking a faction who loves me instead

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    Mighty Eagle was right

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    Come. Please take me back Mighty Eagle
    For I believe I now know

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    Mighty Eagle
    Were I truly belong
    For indeed I thought

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    Mighty Eagle
    That Mighty Lion
    Is were I belong.

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    O how I was so wrong Mighty Eagle
    I was gravely wrong and such a fool I was.

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    You have met
    Princess Justine

    Mighty Eagle
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    Princess Justine who attacked
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    Mighty Eagle
    I know this was wrong
    And so to does Princess Justine

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    With our clashing together
    I now know were I truly belong in Scourge PS4 EU I believe.

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Have you all not heard
    The famous saying. That is very wise and so very true?

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Let me repeat the famous saying
    that is very wise and so true

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    It is
    My Enemy, Enemy's, Enemy's
    Is my friend

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    And so to Princess Justine.

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    Who used to serve Mighty Lion
    But Now serve Mighty Eagle
    For the very first time in her career.

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    Princess Justine and are one in the same
    Were I go. She will go to. For she believes it is right choice

    Mighty Eagle
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    We are all yours
    O Mighty Eagle

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    No one else but you
    I feel peaceful. Unafraid

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    I belong to you O mighty Eagle
    I am so relieved to hear myself to say that

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Princess Justine and I


    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    Now flies and fights alongside with Mighty Eagle
    Who's Mighty talons stand for sacred Freedom

    Written by Serjustin19
    Written on this day
    September 27. The day when My troubled mind is not clouded no longer.
    In the year of my troubles end
  • Khaos_Bane
    Khaos_Bane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ROCK ON STA DK !!!
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Alcast wrote: »
    What does nearby mean?

    5m
    8m
    10m
    20m
    30m
    40m
    50m

    2500m like the minor savagery buff from NBs used to be o:)
    Noobplar
  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    How is this OP? I wouldn't trade this for my vicious ophidian :3 I might run it on a trials healer maybe. Onlu looks good for burning down adds wi]ith aoe dmg. could be good in trials where some ADDS have millions of health.

    Read my OP again I said in organised group PvP,in PvE I know its situationnal
    ~retired~
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    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
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  • Burning_Talons
    Burning_Talons
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seems to only affect zerg v zergs in other words....Your gonna die
    Xbox NA


    Gamertag-Burning Talons
    CP 531
    The Subjugator of Nirn

    EP Dark Elf Magicka DragonKnight- Vayvron the Subjugator
    AD Dark Elf Magicka DragonKnight - Faelon Nimok
    EP Imperial Magicka DragonKnight - Tulius vi Nimok
    AD Breton Magicka Templar - Xyria Nimok
    EP Breton Magicka Sorceror - Ayrana vi Nimok
    EP Breton Magicka Nightblade - Name Classified
    DC Magicka DragonKnight- Dredgor the Conqueror
    EP Magicka Templar- Leodious

    "Burning Talons too OP please nerf"-Gahndi

    Youtube http://bit.do/Burning-Talons

  • Kiiiddd
    Kiiiddd
    This set will be overpowered for grinding mobs for exp that's for sure lmao
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    This set will only be OP in a Zerg vs Zerg setting. 1v1 it's useless, 1vX you will most likely die or the buff will wear off long before you can get to use it.

    Vicious Death is more OP than this set because at least you can chain reaction kill everyone with VD whereas this set still requires you to still fight to kill people.
    Argonian forever
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just take comfort in the fact that many many many pvp-ers are too cheap, too stubborn, or too anti-pve to get these sets. :P
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • asneakybanana
    asneakybanana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Erondil wrote: »
    85b9806844.jpg
    Group PvP DPS this set is completely OP, in large fights there is always ennemies dying around when you need high damage so it will always be up. Heck even on a magicka build if it comes on weapons and jewelry it might be worth using. Major Berserk as of now is extremely hard to get, thats a good thing for such a strong buff but this set (if there is no cd) give potentially access to a permanent 25% damage buff, thus it needs a nerf or everybody will be using it. Either a CD (bad idea imo with such a short duration) either make it give minor berserk (would still be good for any stam dps except nightblade, although maybe not BiS) either make it give 12% more damage that stacks with minor and major berserk (the ways to get major berserk are so few and situationnal that you almost cant have everything up), either make it procc when you kill an ennemy and not when an ennemy dies. Even then it would be extremely strong as far as group PvP is concerned (6man+)

    vicious ophidian is worded the same way but doesnt work on pvp kills. I assume this is the same
    Asneakybanana AD DK Former emperor of Chrysamere and Chillrend. World first hardmode Hel'ra and Quake con winner (Alliance rank 25)
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    Erondil wrote: »
    85b9806844.jpg
    Group PvP DPS this set is completely OP, in large fights there is always ennemies dying around when you need high damage so it will always be up. Heck even on a magicka build if it comes on weapons and jewelry it might be worth using. Major Berserk as of now is extremely hard to get, thats a good thing for such a strong buff but this set (if there is no cd) give potentially access to a permanent 25% damage buff, thus it needs a nerf or everybody will be using it. Either a CD (bad idea imo with such a short duration) either make it give minor berserk (would still be good for any stam dps except nightblade, although maybe not BiS) either make it give 12% more damage that stacks with minor and major berserk (the ways to get major berserk are so few and situationnal that you almost cant have everything up), either make it procc when you kill an ennemy and not when an ennemy dies. Even then it would be extremely strong as far as group PvP is concerned (6man+)

    vicious ophidian is worded the same way but doesnt work on pvp kills. I assume this is the same

    Are you sure? Last I tested it worked on PvP kills as well (though last I tested was over a year ago :D )
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
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