Doncellius wrote: »

bigereard wrote: »

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

Using all tri-glyphs (infused on helm, chest, and legs) and split attributes into Magicka and Stamina, you will not even hit 20K in any of your three stat pools. If everything is Gold quality and you have lots of passives you can hit the 20K mark though. If trying to run any sort of survivable build, you'd stand no chance like this. Your resources would drain VERY fast.

Another good effort though!

It simply could not work effectively when actually put to play.

And your English was perfectly fine

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the tri-glyphs.

My understanding of how to make pelinals effective would be to....

1. Pick what you are going for Stat pool wise. Either magicka or stamina.
2. Stack weapon damage as high as possible in either heavy or medium armor.
3. If you chose stamina - you can now use a resto staff but only one or two skills that are low cost. If you chose magicka, now you can use maybe one or two weapon skills or vigor as long as they are low cost.

I don't think you would want to split Stat pools or champion points. I would believe that stacking champion points toward the Stat pool you chose would be a decently viable build. Dk's would probably benefit the most from pelinals as they do not have a reliant self heal in pvp (dragonblood... Woof). It would take a lot of testing and tweaking to really get this how you want it, but might be possible. Will it be the best? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on play style. A lot of variables to determine on how it would perform to be honest.

With resources being so tight on a hybrid build, perhapts a nightblade with siphoning attacks would make the best candidate for a hybrid.

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

Hutch679 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

I wish I could hit agree more than once on this. I think the vice versa also works where a magicka build can use vigor and stack higher spell damage. I'm finding my magicka Dk to be lackluster at the moment so I'm gonna try a medium pelinals build out.

I tried that myself, using Vigor on a Magicka build and found that to get the most out of the set you need to stack weapon damage and not spell damage.

Just because of the medium passive which gives 12% boost, and then flawless Dawnbreaker another 8%. You then have a 20% boost to your damage before even activating any of your brutality buffs.

But then you may run into sustain issues cause you've lost the light armor

Hutch679 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

I wish I could hit agree more than once on this. I think the vice versa also works where a magicka build can use vigor and stack higher spell damage. I'm finding my magicka Dk to be lackluster at the moment so I'm gonna try a medium pelinals build out.

I tried that myself, using Vigor on a Magicka build and found that to get the most out of the set you need to stack weapon damage and not spell damage.

Just because of the medium passive which gives 12% boost, and then flawless Dawnbreaker another 8%. You then have a 20% boost to your damage before even activating any of your brutality buffs.

But then you may run into sustain issues cause you've lost the light armor

Vampire gives 20% magicka recovery, so does high elf passive though.

Vampire gives 10% Magicka recovery, and 10% stamina recovery.

I accounted for that in my build, I chose dark elf over high elf though, extra flame damage and flame resistance helps with DK and vampirism, and they get stamina and Magicka which is ideal for a hybrid.

I managed to get 3.5k WD/SD but that wasn't accounting for the change to nirnhoned and the weapon damage glyphs.

With DW having nirnhoned as my main trait and sharpened as my off-hand trait, with the glyph I could probably get around 4k

Hutch679 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

I wish I could hit agree more than once on this. I think the vice versa also works where a magicka build can use vigor and stack higher spell damage. I'm finding my magicka Dk to be lackluster at the moment so I'm gonna try a medium pelinals build out.

I tried that myself, using Vigor on a Magicka build and found that to get the most out of the set you need to stack weapon damage and not spell damage.

Just because of the medium passive which gives 12% boost, and then flawless Dawnbreaker another 8%. You then have a 20% boost to your damage before even activating any of your brutality buffs.

But then you may run into sustain issues cause you've lost the light armor

Vampire gives 20% magicka recovery, so does high elf passive though.

Vampire gives 10% Magicka recovery, and 10% stamina recovery.

I accounted for that in my build, I chose dark elf over high elf though, extra flame damage and flame resistance helps with DK and vampirism, and they get stamina and Magicka which is ideal for a hybrid.

I managed to get 3.5k WD/SD but that wasn't accounting for the change to nirnhoned and the weapon damage glyphs.

With DW having nirnhoned as my main trait and sharpened as my off-hand trait, with the glyph I could probably get around 4k

Ohhh that's right. What's vigor heal for with 3.5k wep dmg

Vigor scales off of stamina too, with 3.5k weapon damage and 21k stamina it's just shy of 11k

You can see using this site: http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

That's not including any healing buffs

Doncellius wrote: »

bigereard wrote: »

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

Using all tri-glyphs (infused on helm, chest, and legs) and split attributes into Magicka and Stamina, you will not even hit 20K in any of your three stat pools. If everything is Gold quality and you have lots of passives you can hit the 20K mark though. If trying to run any sort of survivable build, you'd stand no chance like this. Your resources would drain VERY fast.

Another good effort though!

It simply could not work effectively when actually put to play.

And your English was perfectly fine

Hi, Thank you for your feedback, just not confident yet with english .

In my experience it's work quite good, but have higher learning curve than my regular build due to requirement of swapping weapon continuously ...
And the regular burst rotation will never reach the potential of focused build, that's why I prefer HoT & DoT for this build.

Attributes
In cyro I have 25k Health (almost 27k with emp. bonus), 18k magicka, 17.5k stamina (breton, 32 mag, 32 stam, prisma enchant, no food, no infused, all impren), 1.2k mag regen, 1.5 stam regen buffed because of drink, cp, and sets. (no vampire)
Can hit 1.8 k stam regen buffed if I swap warrior mundus with serpent. (but I rarely use serpent)

Prismatic give us 1/2 health, 1/2 stam, & 1/2 magicka than regular
I always need health to reach my personal limit (25k health in cyro) and at least one of stam/magicka for any build, thus even in my non hybrid build prismatic always give me extra stam/magicka without sacrifice other stat. (except for my pure health build)

Sustain
I run 7 heavy so it will be extra 651 mag& stam regen also 480 mag regen from channeled focus (but sometime I prefer restoring focus for pure survival build), 7 heavy also give us cheaper break free if we slot immovable brute.
Not counting extra resource from my heavy attack, poison, and potion.

for pure survival and better sustain, I can also swap molag kena to malubeth, still hit 4.5k++ weapon & spell damage when dual wield, since everybody's crit chance is so high.

Comparison
basically my build HoT & DoT potential is similar to patrick scott's regenerator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQSIvrBVBYk
The video also has good explanation of warrior's fury and DoT build.

My health regen is not even half of his health regen, but I have slightly better stam & mag regen.

His has up to 4.2 k weapon damage & 26.7k stamina, mine have up to 4.7 k weap & spell damage with 17.5k mag&stam.
I have slightly les HoT & DoT potential, but I can execute that potential from both stamina & magicka pool ( I think that's the point of being hybrid), better regen.

I have more crit because of both 12% from CP passive (I have blessed & precise strike) + vampire's bane & camouflaged hunter (also for extra 3% weapon damage).

Skill
Most of time I can have vigor, mutagen, extended/retribution ritual, blood craze active.
Occasionally honor the dead (very cheap burst heal if we only heal once every 6 sec).
Still can do rotation of puncturing sweep and/or bloodthirst (depends on the availability of my resource and skill set)
We can also combine fast attack with quick siphon for even better survival.

Dual Slot: Blood Craze, Bloodthirst, Reso Vigor, Camo Hunter, Flying Blade, Flawless DB

Resto Slot: Mutagen, Cleansing Ritual, Vampire's Bane, Puncutring Sweep, Channeled/Resto Focus, Flawless DB/Empowering Sweep/Barrier (for extra mag regen)

Pot&Pois
My potion are: health-immovable-stam/mag (depends on my resource)
for pure survival I also use the lingering health + major vitality potion.
major vitality + major mending + malubeth proc + 92 blessed + 60 quick recovery + heavy armor passive = still better healing than tooltip even with fasala & major defile debuff
And that lingering health is lifesaver, plus my natural regen it almost equivalent to patrick scott's health regen.

My poison: the one that give us (little) immovability & (little) resource back.

The best moment of this build is when we get continuous attack + combat medic
almost 5k weap & spell damage, extra healing, extra crit & extra both regen

bigereard wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

bigereard wrote: »

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

Using all tri-glyphs (infused on helm, chest, and legs) and split attributes into Magicka and Stamina, you will not even hit 20K in any of your three stat pools. If everything is Gold quality and you have lots of passives you can hit the 20K mark though. If trying to run any sort of survivable build, you'd stand no chance like this. Your resources would drain VERY fast.

Another good effort though!

It simply could not work effectively when actually put to play.

And your English was perfectly fine

Hi, Thank you for your feedback, just not confident yet with english .

In my experience it's work quite good, but have higher learning curve than my regular build due to requirement of swapping weapon continuously ...
And the regular burst rotation will never reach the potential of focused build, that's why I prefer HoT & DoT for this build.

Attributes
In cyro I have 25k Health (almost 27k with emp. bonus), 18k magicka, 17.5k stamina (breton, 32 mag, 32 stam, prisma enchant, no food, no infused, all impren), 1.2k mag regen, 1.5 stam regen buffed because of drink, cp, and sets. (no vampire)
Can hit 1.8 k stam regen buffed if I swap warrior mundus with serpent. (but I rarely use serpent)

Prismatic give us 1/2 health, 1/2 stam, & 1/2 magicka than regular
I always need health to reach my personal limit (25k health in cyro) and at least one of stam/magicka for any build, thus even in my non hybrid build prismatic always give me extra stam/magicka without sacrifice other stat. (except for my pure health build)

Sustain
I run 7 heavy so it will be extra 651 mag& stam regen also 480 mag regen from channeled focus (but sometime I prefer restoring focus for pure survival build), 7 heavy also give us cheaper break free if we slot immovable brute.
Not counting extra resource from my heavy attack, poison, and potion.

for pure survival and better sustain, I can also swap molag kena to malubeth, still hit 4.5k++ weapon & spell damage when dual wield, since everybody's crit chance is so high.

Comparison
basically my build HoT & DoT potential is similar to patrick scott's regenerator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQSIvrBVBYk
The video also has good explanation of warrior's fury and DoT build.

My health regen is not even half of his health regen, but I have slightly better stam & mag regen.

His has up to 4.2 k weapon damage & 26.7k stamina, mine have up to 4.7 k weap & spell damage with 17.5k mag&stam.
I have slightly les HoT & DoT potential, but I can execute that potential from both stamina & magicka pool ( I think that's the point of being hybrid), better regen.

I have more crit because of both 12% from CP passive (I have blessed & precise strike) + vampire's bane & camouflaged hunter (also for extra 3% weapon damage).

Skill
Most of time I can have vigor, mutagen, extended/retribution ritual, blood craze active.
Occasionally honor the dead (very cheap burst heal if we only heal once every 6 sec).
Still can do rotation of puncturing sweep and/or bloodthirst (depends on the availability of my resource and skill set)
We can also combine fast attack with quick siphon for even better survival.

Dual Slot: Blood Craze, Bloodthirst, Reso Vigor, Camo Hunter, Flying Blade, Flawless DB

Resto Slot: Mutagen, Cleansing Ritual, Vampire's Bane, Puncutring Sweep, Channeled/Resto Focus, Flawless DB/Empowering Sweep/Barrier (for extra mag regen)

Pot&Pois
My potion are: health-immovable-stam/mag (depends on my resource)
for pure survival I also use the lingering health + major vitality potion.
major vitality + major mending + malubeth proc + 92 blessed + 60 quick recovery + heavy armor passive = still better healing than tooltip even with fasala & major defile debuff
And that lingering health is lifesaver, plus my natural regen it almost equivalent to patrick scott's health regen.

My poison: the one that give us (little) immovability & (little) resource back.

The best moment of this build is when we get continuous attack + combat medic
almost 5k weap & spell damage, extra healing, extra crit & extra both regen

Thanks for linking that video... I had NO IDEA the Warrior's Fury set was that strong. That's got to be one of the only sets in ESO where the tooltip makes it sound worse than it actually is (instead of better).

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

I wish I could hit agree more than once on this. I think the vice versa also works where a magicka build can use vigor and stack higher spell damage. I'm finding my magicka Dk to be lackluster at the moment so I'm gonna try a medium pelinals build out.

I tried that myself, using Vigor on a Magicka build and found that to get the most out of the set you need to stack weapon damage and not spell damage.

Just because of the medium passive which gives 12% boost, and then flawless Dawnbreaker another 8%. You then have a 20% boost to your damage before even activating any of your brutality buffs.

But then you may run into sustain issues cause you've lost the light armor

Right so you run into sustain issues and if you stack medium armor passives but use magcka attack spells you lose crit and penetration. So by using Pelinals you get higher weapon damage but lose spell penetration and crit on all magicka based spells. Is it really worth it?

LegacyDM wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

The set was not created, or atleast not seemingly created for hybrid builds. It was essentially created so that stamina players could use magicka ultimates without taking to much of a hit. A magicka player wearing it will quickly come to this realization as burning the wick from both ends inevitably will result in your death.

I wish I could hit agree more than once on this. I think the vice versa also works where a magicka build can use vigor and stack higher spell damage. I'm finding my magicka Dk to be lackluster at the moment so I'm gonna try a medium pelinals build out.

I tried that myself, using Vigor on a Magicka build and found that to get the most out of the set you need to stack weapon damage and not spell damage.

Just because of the medium passive which gives 12% boost, and then flawless Dawnbreaker another 8%. You then have a 20% boost to your damage before even activating any of your brutality buffs.

But then you may run into sustain issues cause you've lost the light armor

Right so you run into sustain issues and if you stack medium armor passives but use magcka attack spells you lose crit and penetration. So by using Pelinals you get higher weapon damage but lose spell penetration and crit on all magicka based spells. Is it really worth it?

I guess it depends, if you can afford to put some CP into spell erosion and you're using sharpened I don't think it's too big of a problem, and depends on if you're debuffin your opponent and running Abilitys that give you a crit bonus.

I managed to get just under 1.5k mag regen which is about how much I run on my sorc. The hardest thing is to keep your weapon damage high while trying to build a big stamina and magicka pool

@bigereard - Awesome build! I took a look at your build, and tried to make my own variation with sorc.

Here's what I came up with:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1933

Has:
17k stam
25k health
18k mag
mag recov 1733
stam recov 1900
(with drink)
WD 6187/SD 6187
(full buffs)

You can swap to 5/2 heavy armor/med, but you will loose the 12% WD bonus from med. But you will have access to wrath, so you'll lose about 100 wd.

The biggest difference is I played around using rune cage, so I could toss on dots while they were CC. The back bar I'm still experimenting with, may try destro or resto. Currently its setup to be a health/resource/buff/escape bar. I wanted to run blood craze, but the initial hit breaks the cage cc. For group play restraining prison can be swapped for rune cage, but its much more costly.

I took boundless instead of hurricane, because of the duration (making resource drain not as bad). Since I only have two stam skills slotted, I can use conversion to gain back my magicka when I'm running low.

I also kept the gear purple, because I still don't have any gold gear myself yet. I'm also thinking about testing ravaging instead of fury to see how it compares.

The biggest issue I'm running into is burst damage. I may try a different setup with frags, but it seems pretty costly. The dot setup seems to be much easier on resources. The thing I like the most about this build is that the dw light/heavy attacks no longer hit like wet noodles ;D

@psychotic13 - The gear is in the build link I posted above, and its the same as Bigereard's build (2 molag kena medium, 5 fury, 5 pelinal). Other than that the regen is just from my race/class passives+armor passives+a stam/mag drink+CP allotment split between stam/mag (obviously 531 CP).

I realize liquid lightening isn't the best form of damage, but its another dot I can toss out that doesn't break rune prison. I'd love to swap it out, but unless its another sorc dot ability, I'll loose the 2% wd. This is why I mentioned "burst", because I'm trying to make an alternate version that doesn't rely on rune prison and dots.

In terms of viability, I've been using it all week in pvp in trueflame. I tested it doing solo pvp in open cyrodiil/IC, small scale pvp, and in my guilds zerg.

Im rolling a stam sorc focused pelinals build. 5 pel, 5 skirmisher 2 lekis sword and board and random 2 hander. I get 10k frags and 9k curse. 15k overload LA. All non crit. 13k dizzying swing. 7k pierce armor and it costs me 1000 stam. 7 medium. I never run out of stam/mag.

Im leveling my medium and 2 hander on my dunmer mag DK. I think it will be a beast as well.

@psychotic13 - Yea, I tried it on a dk, and it worked pretty well. Though, I'm not as familiar with mag dk as I am with stam dk. So I wasn't sure what to slot for magic skills that would take full advantage of pelinals (the high spell damage).

I slotted igneous weapon&shield, coagulated blood, talons, and fossilize. DK seems to good on stam management, because of "helping hands" procing on top of everything else. The ult gen on dk is always super addictive lol.

Some of my guildies suggested slotting whip, but I wasn't sure how good the damage was in pvp. I really wish there was a mag version of fiery breath that added the magic breach for lowering spell resistance.

On my sorc I switched over to frags, and restraining prison. Instead of focusing around dots, which seemed to be alot better for burst. Didn't even realize you could animation cancel frag casts lol. Curse seems meh, since you can purge/block it. Supposedly next update it'll be unblockable again, so maybe I'll check it out then.