So I tried making a true Hybrid....

Vaoh · June 2016

My Hybrid Templar.... I geared him up with his 5x Pelinal's Aptitude, and then put on some other purple sets and Maelstrom weapons.

Naturally it did not come together very easily. Still lots of stuff to move around and such, and other things to test. I did learn something quite unfortunate though.

No matter how much changing I do, this character will never be that strong or great at 1vX like any of my other characters. You simply cannot build a strong character going 50/50 for Magicka and Stamina. Instead, you must be around 30/70 or 20/80 with Pelinal's Aptitude to even be slightly effective.

To put it simply, don't bother with Pelinal's Aptitude if you want to build a true hybrid!

It's not good enough to make Hybrids viable in either PvP or PvE. The best use you could make out of it is to create a Stam Sorc who can cast Crystal Frags/Velocious Curse, or a Stamplar with Radiant Destruction.

In the last patch, Hybrids were stronger, but cost increases and other balance changes (Stamina superiority) in Dark Brotherhood have led them to struggle too much.

Gotta admit, this was a big letdown

Anyone else attempt to build a true Hybrid with Pelinal's Aptitude and see it totally fail?

Biggest losses include 680 Rubedo Leather, 2 Hakeijo, 2 Kuta, and 4 Goldscales on this failed experiment.....

Azurya · June 2016

reading the tooltips for Pelinals Set, should make you clear that it is based on your Stampool OR your Magickapool, and scales to the highest of both them!
It does not count Stamina+Magicka-Pool together!
So yes, it is NOT designed for Hybrids..........

Vaoh · June 2016

Azurya wrote: »

reading the tooltips for Pelinals Set, should make you clear that it is based on your Stampool OR your Magickapool, and scales to the highest of both them!
It does not count Stamina+Magicka-Pool together!
So yes, it is NOT designed for Hybrids..........

That's not how it works. It does not care about your Stamina/Magicka pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage stats are both increased to whichever value is higher.

Essentially, you must stack Weapon Damage. This set was created for Hybrids, but they are still not viable unfortunately.

Sunburnt_Penguin · June 2016

Have you considered using this set purely for self-heals from Honor the Dead and Rapid Regen? From my [limited] research on this, these two have the strongest Spell Damage coefficients (1.4 and 2.8, respectively) of any heals (note that for Weapon Damage, Rally is 0.4 and Vigor is 1.9)

So something like a StamPlar using Resto/DW, dumping all stats in Stamina & WD and using those two for heals. Say..

1 Alchemist Resto
2 Pelinal DW
3 Pelinal body
4 Alchemist body
3 Agility

What's annoying is that if Pelinal wasn't crafted and included jewellery, you could then tie it in quite nicely with HRage.

Vaoh · June 2016

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Have you considered using this set purely for self-heals from Honor the Dead and Rapid Regen? From my [limited] research on this, these two have the strongest Spell Damage coefficients (1.4 and 2.8, respectively) of any heals (note that for Weapon Damage, Rally is 0.4 and Vigor is 1.9)

So something like a StamPlar using Resto/DW, dumping all stats in Stamina & WD and using those two for heals. Say..

1 Alchemist Resto
2 Pelinal DW
3 Pelinal body
4 Alchemist body
3 Agility

What's annoying is that if Pelinal wasn't crafted and included jewellery, you could then tie it in quite nicely with HRage.

That's a good idea! I did not know that the scaling strength of Honor the Dead/Rapid Regen to Spell Damage was so high. I also thought of that same gear setup, but having Pelinal's active sometimes and not active sometimes would probably cause some weird issues with the healing and damage output.

Overall I think you might as well still be a Magicka Templar or a Stamina Templar. Those heals would be great, but also crafting that setup and having the stats not be good enough (which they won't)..... Idk. Honor the Dead is also very expensive, and you need Cleansing Ritual too. No Stamina character can have enough Max Magicka to come close to spamming Honor the Dead.

True, that your setup would create a Stamplar with less damage and more heals. The goal was to make a strong Hybrid though

Being a real Hybrid would involve more evenly splitting damage CPs and having better Magicka regen. Even with this set, it won't work out.

Using Stamina Heals as a Stamina character, ignoring this set to replace with better Stam sets. and building normally is just the smarter way to go.

Sunburnt_Penguin · June 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Have you considered using this set purely for self-heals from Honor the Dead and Rapid Regen? From my [limited] research on this, these two have the strongest Spell Damage coefficients (1.4 and 2.8, respectively) of any heals (note that for Weapon Damage, Rally is 0.4 and Vigor is 1.9)

So something like a StamPlar using Resto/DW, dumping all stats in Stamina & WD and using those two for heals. Say..

1 Alchemist Resto
2 Pelinal DW
3 Pelinal body
4 Alchemist body
3 Agility

What's annoying is that if Pelinal wasn't crafted and included jewellery, you could then tie it in quite nicely with HRage.

That's a good idea! I did not know that the scaling strength of Honor the Dead/Rapid Regen to Spell Damage was so high. I also thought of that same gear setup, but having Pelinal's active sometimes and not active sometimes would probably cause some weird issues with the healing and damage output.

Overall I think you might as well still be a Magicka Templar or a Stamina Templar. Those heals would be great, but also crafting that setup and having the stats not be good enough (which they won't)..... Idk. Honor the Dead is also very expensive, and you need Cleansing Ritual too. No Stamina character can have enough Max Magicka to come close to spamming Honor the Dead.

True, that your setup would create a Stamplar with less damage and more heals. The goal was to make a strong Hybrid though

Being a real Hybrid would involve more evenly splitting damage CPs and having better Magicka regen. Even with this set, it won't work out.

Using Stamina Heals as a Stamina character, ignoring this set to replace with better Stam sets. and building normally is just the smarter way to go.

My understanding is that Regen ticks would take a snapshot at the time so once you switched back to DW, they'd be stronger. I'd also have Honor on DW bar for quick "oh-***!" heals as needed.

Yeah I understand about your Hybrid goal, I was just going off on a tangent and putting an idea out to try and make this set usable. Unfortunately it seems that their attempts to make one [more?] viable failed. I think an additional issue for a Hybrid DPS would be a lack of Penetration as well.

Brrrofski · June 2016

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Have you considered using this set purely for self-heals from Honor the Dead and Rapid Regen? From my [limited] research on this, these two have the strongest Spell Damage coefficients (1.4 and 2.8, respectively) of any heals (note that for Weapon Damage, Rally is 0.4 and Vigor is 1.9)

So something like a StamPlar using Resto/DW, dumping all stats in Stamina & WD and using those two for heals. Say..

1 Alchemist Resto
2 Pelinal DW
3 Pelinal body
4 Alchemist body
3 Agility

What's annoying is that if Pelinal wasn't crafted and included jewellery, you could then tie it in quite nicely with HRage.

Rally and vigor heal you plenty on a stamplar with extended Ritual.

You're giving up so much to try and make a hybrid build that it really isn't worth it.

Jar_Ek · June 2016

In theory you could make a clever alchemists hybrid with molar kena, agility and leki. It would be burst, glass cannon but probably viable. Have only run very quick pts tests but it would be decent I think... magicka would still be a backup tho - just a more viable backup.

Bashev · June 2016

Hybrid build without soft caps cannot exist. Always one stat build will be superior to any hybrid build.

Xvorg · June 2016

Do Pelinal's effect stack with major brut/major sorc?

If yes, the DKslayer is the set to go

Vaoh · June 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

Do Pelinal's effect stack with major brut/major sorc?

If yes, the DKslayer is the set to go

It should. Stacking weapon damage and a source of Major Brutality would both benefit Spell Damage.

Birdovic · June 2016

Been saying it for a while now.
Hybrids are almost an impossible option(viable one) meanwhile.
That has some reasons:
- Soft caps is gone
- CP System has come
- Increased Ability costs
- Too few sets that support a hybrid(most of those few outdated aswell)

With that said, I'm pretty sure a hybrid build, focusing on being a glass cannon is still a real Possibility, even more when playing on a NON-CP campaign.

psychotic13 · June 2016

I also theory crafted a Hyrbid with pelinals, I did it with a DK and came up with:

Max Magicka – 30188
Max Health – 18000 (23000 in cyrodil)
Max Stamina – 21008
Stamina Regen – 964
Magicka Regen – 1494
WD/SD – 3532 (buffed using DW)

That was using 5 medium armor, and as I'm a DK I didn't worry to much about Stam Regen as they have the Passives which restores 5%

joshisanonymous · June 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

True, that your setup would create a Stamplar with less damage and more heals. The goal was to make a strong Hybrid though

Erm, isn't that what a hybrid is? I mean, if by hybrid, you mean a character that can damage as well as a full damage build and heal as well as a full healing build, then why would the latter two even exist? In every MMO I've ever played, hybrids are classes that can do many things but none of them particularly well. If the suggested setup creates a stamplar with less damange and more heals, then it sounds like a successful hybrid to me.

phaneub17_ESO · June 2016

I see this as something a magicka tank would use to build some oomph for those few stamina based attacks in your arsenal.

Bashev · June 2016

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

True, that your setup would create a Stamplar with less damage and more heals. The goal was to make a strong Hybrid though

Erm, isn't that what a hybrid is? I mean, if by hybrid, you mean a character that can damage as well as a full damage build and heal as well as a full healing build, then why would the latter two even exist? In every MMO I've ever played, hybrids are classes that can do many things but none of them particularly well. If the suggested setup creates a stamplar with less damange and more heals, then it sounds like a successful hybrid to me.

In other MMOs you need hybrid to do average damage and average heals, then you can beat dps builds, or tank builds. In ESO, dps builds have strong heals and strong defence (roll dodge, shields), and strong heals + strong DPS is more than average DPS and average heals.

Hutch679 · June 2016

High elf magicka dk
5m/1h/1l (full impenetrable)
Tri Stat food

5 pelinals (x5 magicka glyph)
2 lekis (swords)
1 Molag kena (stamina glyph)
1 bloodspawn (stamina glyph)
3 agility (*arcane* w/ 3 weapon damage glyphs)

Dual wield swords (sharpened)
Resto staff (defending/nirnhoned)/sword and shield

Honestly. Magicka Dk would fair pretty decently with this build. I'm pretty damn sure you could use vigor and mutagen and get ridiculous healing while still having around 3200 wep damage. Remember Dk can use igneous weapons for major brutality and igneous shield for minor brutality. Both return stamina from the Dk passive, both generate ultimate. Oh and since your wep damage is gonna be high, yeahhhhhhhhhh go ahead and slot that take flight on your bar. Havent tested yet. But I could be on to something.....

Acsvf · June 2016

The issue with hybrids in this game's current state is that they don't actually allow you to do more. You can make a hybrid that has decent healing despite using stamina for damage, but then you could always make a magicka build that deals significantly more damage and also heals a lot better.

leepalmer95 · June 2016

Hmm

dw/bow

Race either Dark elf of Redguard

Ult - Db of smiting or Flawless for passive wpn dmg.

Helm - Bloodspawn - Or malubeth.Light
Shoulder - Kena - Or malubeth Light
5x pelinals - medium
3x dreugh king (weapon dmg)

5/2 because need that cost reduction for magicka skills + 12% wpn dmg.

All tri enchants.

Spam the flares, the jesus beam with a toppling. Entropy for 20% bonus.
Not sure if heal sweeps or jabs with crit is better.

Injection for dots, shuffle, etc..

psychotic13 · June 2016

Hutch679 wrote: »

High elf magicka dk
5m/1h/1l (full impenetrable)
Tri Stat food

5 pelinals (x5 magicka glyph)
2 lekis (swords)
1 Molag kena (stamina glyph)
1 bloodspawn (stamina glyph)
3 agility (*arcane* w/ 3 weapon damage glyphs)

Dual wield swords (sharpened)
Resto staff (defending/nirnhoned)/sword and shield

Honestly. Magicka Dk would fair pretty decently with this build. I'm pretty damn sure you could use vigor and mutagen and get ridiculous healing while still having around 3200 wep damage. Remember Dk can use igneous weapons for major brutality and igneous shield for minor brutality. Both return stamina from the Dk passive, both generate ultimate. Oh and since your wep damage is gonna be high, yeahhhhhhhhhh go ahead and slot that take flight on your bar. Havent tested yet. But I could be on to something.....

Did you just copy and paste most of my build?

Vaoh · June 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hmm

dw/bow

Race either Dark elf of Redguard

Ult - Db of smiting or Flawless for passive wpn dmg.

Helm - Bloodspawn - Or malubeth.Light
Shoulder - Kena - Or malubeth Light
5x pelinals - medium
3x dreugh king (weapon dmg)

5/2 because need that cost reduction for magicka skills + 12% wpn dmg.

All tri enchants.

Spam the flares, the jesus beam with a toppling. Entropy for 20% bonus.
Not sure if heal sweeps or jabs with crit is better.

Injection for dots, shuffle, etc..

Not a bad idea. Problem is, you'd run out of Magicka so fast it's not even funny. Cost increases in DB were harsh to Hybrids. Running with ~25K Max Magicka (includes Tri-Food) and almost no regeneration for both Stamina or Magicka, those spells would not do any justifiable damage. And by doing this all even with Major Brutality and fully buffed you would not even not even crack 3K Damage.

Good effort though! It'd just never compete with any half-decent Stamina Templar or Magicka Templar build.

Hutch679 · June 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

High elf magicka dk
5m/1h/1l (full impenetrable)
Tri Stat food

5 pelinals (x5 magicka glyph)
2 lekis (swords)
1 Molag kena (stamina glyph)
1 bloodspawn (stamina glyph)
3 agility (*arcane* w/ 3 weapon damage glyphs)

Dual wield swords (sharpened)
Resto staff (defending/nirnhoned)/sword and shield

Honestly. Magicka Dk would fair pretty decently with this build. I'm pretty damn sure you could use vigor and mutagen and get ridiculous healing while still having around 3200 wep damage. Remember Dk can use igneous weapons for major brutality and igneous shield for minor brutality. Both return stamina from the Dk passive, both generate ultimate. Oh and since your wep damage is gonna be high, yeahhhhhhhhhh go ahead and slot that take flight on your bar. Havent tested yet. But I could be on to something.....

Did you just copy and paste most of my build?

You didn't say any armor sets besides pelinals. Or maybe you can't really read, or remember your post. I can't copy stuff you didn't say. You said medium armor, pelinals and that your a Dk. I'm not seeing the copying can you reference please?

Hutch679 · June 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

I also theory crafted a Hyrbid with pelinals, I did it with a DK and came up with:

Max Magicka – 30188
Max Health – 18000 (23000 in cyrodil)
Max Stamina – 21008
Stamina Regen – 964
Magicka Regen – 1494
WD/SD – 3532 (buffed using DW)

That was using 5 medium armor, and as I'm a DK I didn't worry to much about Stam Regen as they have the Passives which restores 5%

This post? Lol where the armor sets? What skills on your bar? What traits on weapons?

Yeah I totally copied your post dude... Lol clearly a learn to forum issue here.

leepalmer95 · June 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hmm

dw/bow

Race either Dark elf of Redguard

Ult - Db of smiting or Flawless for passive wpn dmg.

Helm - Bloodspawn - Or malubeth.Light
Shoulder - Kena - Or malubeth Light
5x pelinals - medium
3x dreugh king (weapon dmg)

5/2 because need that cost reduction for magicka skills + 12% wpn dmg.

All tri enchants.

Spam the flares, the jesus beam with a toppling. Entropy for 20% bonus.
Not sure if heal sweeps or jabs with crit is better.

Injection for dots, shuffle, etc..

Not a bad idea. Problem is, you'd run out of Magicka so fast it's not even funny. Cost increases in DB were harsh to Hybrids. Running with ~25K Max Magicka (includes Tri-Food) and almost no regeneration for both Stamina or Magicka, those spells would not do any justifiable damage. And by doing this all even with Major Brutality and fully buffed you would not even not even crack 3K Damage.

Good effort though! It'd just never compete with any half-decent Stamina Templar or Magicka Templar build.

Yeah i'd basically be happy with a stamplar with honor the dead and jesus beam

bigereard · June 2016

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

I made the same build as @JackDaniell in PTS. It did not work for me but he made his with 5 heavy and he's doing great with it.

I believe he'll have a build video out for it soon.

Hutch679 · June 2016

bigereard wrote: »

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

This was a helpful explanation. Thank you. Your English is better than some peoples.

[Edit to remove naming and shaming]

kojou · June 2016

The main problem I see with a Hybrid build is the Champion Points. Since you need to put points into either Elemental Expert or Mighty (I suppose you could put ~80 in each), and there are points for either spell penetration or physical penetration, and spell crit damage or weopon crit damage... etc. You end up losing power over a build that is purely Magicka or Physical. I looked a this set and thought about some things, but couldn't come up with anything better than a Stamina build that has higher Spell damage or vice versa.

Since there are so many stamina skills that also heal now, I don't see the point of buffing a magicka based heal on a stamina build. In the days before Vigor and soft cap removal this may have been a "go-to" set, but with things as they are now it just seems more like a token set that only exists to check off someone's request for "Hybrid Armor" in the game.

IMO unless they release another armor set with jewelry that synergizes with this set in some way it will quickly go to the list of sets that nobody uses.

Celas_Dranacea · June 2016

I use Pelinals on my stamplar for pvp. Stack everything into stam and weapon damage (like 80:20 stam:magicka) and then have the Peli for a boost to heals.

5 heavy 2 medium s/b + resto.

Basically he's a very tanky and survivable healer, albeit without the crazy huge heals of a magplar - but he's able to roll dodge, break free and block a ton, and with some decent damage.

Also, he's a pretty good werewolf which important to me

Vaoh · June 2016

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

The main problem I see with a Hybrid build is the Champion Points. Since you need to put points into either Elemental Expert or Mighty (I suppose you could put ~80 in each), and there are points for either spell penetration or physical penetration, and spell crit damage or weopon crit damage... etc. You end up losing power over a build that is purely Magicka or Physical. I looked a this set and thought about some things, but couldn't come up with anything better than a Stamina build that has higher Spell damage or vice versa.

Since there are so many stamina skills that also heal now, I don't see the point of buffing a magicka based heal on a stamina build. In the days before Vigor and soft cap removal this may have been a "go-to" set, but with things as they are now it just seems more like a token set that only exists to check off someone's request for "Hybrid Armor" in the game.

IMO unless they release another armor set with jewelry that synergizes with this set in some way it will quickly go to the list of sets that nobody uses.

100% agree. Exactly.

You can already "have it all" if you dump everything into one stat. Magicka spec or Stamina Spec.

In today's meta:

Stamina or Magicka
Great damage, great heals, great survivability, great regen, great stat pool size.

Hybrid
Decent to high damage, decent to high heals, decent survivability, weak to decent regenerations, weak stat pool size.

That's reality

Any Hybrid you make to show off with, could've been much better if you focused into one stat.

Vaoh · June 2016

bigereard wrote: »

I have decent hybrid build with pelinals:

1) Pelinals best used with DoT & HoT build.
Because most of them have relatively low cost.
(HoT is best because you only need to focus on healing CP instead of physical damage CP and spell damage CP)
Or some skill with cost return like honor the dead.

2) Pelinals will have significant effect only if you have significant amount of either spell damage or weapon damage. At end game 4k++ full buffed is a decent number.
To accommodate this you will need focused your build toward either spell damage or weapon damage.
For example: Warrior's Fury + all weapon damage acc enchant + warrior mundus stone + dual wield + wrath + major/minor buff + flawless dawnbreaker + molag kena + balanced warrior

If most of your damage/heal comes from attributes then don't use pelinals.
For example: your highest damage is 2500 spell damage and you have 50k magicka -> don't use pelinals

3) for attributes enchant will be best if you use prismatic.

4) Usually for hybrid I use stam-mag regen drink, but tri stat is also good.

5) One slot stamina weapon, other slot magicka weapon - I use dual wield & restoration staff

*please forgive my english

Using all tri-glyphs (infused on helm, chest, and legs) and split attributes into Magicka and Stamina, you will not even hit 20K in any of your three stat pools. If everything is Gold quality and you have lots of passives you can hit the 20K mark though. If trying to run any sort of survivable build, you'd stand no chance like this. Your resources would drain VERY fast.

Another good effort though!

It simply could not work effectively when actually put to play.

And your English was perfectly fine