UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Casual:

So what about hardcasuals?

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Casual:

So what about hardcasuals?

We are the chips.

I see.

We are the vehicle which carries our more casual compatriots to a delicious end.


EDIT: Also, this thread is now about guacamole metaphors.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

I think what you meant to say was "My belief is that it is called experience." After all, all of your "beliefs" come from assumptions and not experience. This shows how mental you really are.

edit: BTW, thread reported. Pretty sure this disaster has run it's course.

Just as I'm sure you believe you're smart. Let's not concern ourselves with truths, and only deal with the topic. If you disagree with me ... stop coming here. Report that, too. Make sure you put in the reason section, that you're mad because you believe someone might be saying their better than you. And your feelings are hurt. :'(

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

I think what you meant to say was "My belief is that it is called experience." After all, all of your "beliefs" come from assumptions and not experience. This shows how mental you really are.

edit: BTW, thread reported. Pretty sure this disaster has run it's course.

Just as I'm sure you believe you're smart. Let's not concern ourselves with truths, and only deal with the topic. If you disagree with me ... stop coming here. Report that, too. Make sure you put in the reason section, that you're mad because you believe someone might be saying their better than you. And your feelings are hurt. :'(

*They're

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Like I stated before, the large portion of the money is not really coming from the casual players. How can that be possible?

You keep saying that, and I'm pretty sure it's still completely wrong.

Because crown store items are mostly cosmetic crap that provides no functional advantage, I would bet a month's salary that the vast majority of the crown store sales come from the players you would call casuals. They are the ones more likely to go nuts over a new mount or pet, and toss money at "convenience" items like the banker and stuff that gives them more out of their limited playtime.

Also, just for fun, since you seem to like arguments based on stereotypes, I can even make one for this (please note, this is for illustrative purposes only, and is not meant to be taken seriously, or to reflect my actual views):

Hardcore gamers are mostly kids and people with no jobs that live in basements and have plenty of time to play ESO all day long. Casuals are mostly adults and people with real-life responsibilities that have less time to play. Obviously, the casuals are the ones who have jobs and access to disposable income, and therefore have far more money to spend in the crown store than the kids who live in their moms' basements.


Seriously though, there's one main reason why game developers don't like to try to cater to the "hardcore" players: They are typically impossible to please.

Look at things like VMA. There's an example of content that probably less than 10% of the playerbase can even complete. Yet how many times do you see posts where someone is complaining (about VMA) that "Oh, it's such a grind. It's not even a challenge anymore. We need something new." Or if not that, things like, "The challenge is all just stupid mechanics. It's not REAL challenge, it's just lazy." Constant complaining about how "easy" something that most of the players of this game will likely never complete.

Yet look at how many people get excited when the release a cool-looking new mount? You know who the vast majority of those people are? Casuals.

Given all this, who would YOU cater to, if you wanted to make money?

LMAO - One of my friends is actually rich in the real world, and used to play this game non-stop. His mother's basement was nowhere to be found.

I take care of my children, do my job, do volunteer work at a community center four days in a week, have two hour conversations with my wife, mow my lawn, read, write songs, watch Netflix, sleep, eat, do research on current events, and drive for a total of two hours everyday. And I play everyday, have a total of 10 characters, 5 of them are veteran ranked, 3 are maxed out. So I'm considered a hardcore player.

Oh, and in case you didn't understand all that. I live in my own house. So I'll just continue to laugh at your narrow-minded a**. And people think I stereotype -LOL.

Xjcon wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Like I stated before, the large portion of the money is not really coming from the casual players. How can that be possible?

You keep saying that, and I'm pretty sure it's still completely wrong.

Because crown store items are mostly cosmetic crap that provides no functional advantage, I would bet a month's salary that the vast majority of the crown store sales come from the players you would call casuals. They are the ones more likely to go nuts over a new mount or pet, and toss money at "convenience" items like the banker and stuff that gives them more out of their limited playtime.

Also, just for fun, since you seem to like arguments based on stereotypes, I can even make one for this (please note, this is for illustrative purposes only, and is not meant to be taken seriously, or to reflect my actual views):

Hardcore gamers are mostly kids and people with no jobs that live in basements and have plenty of time to play ESO all day long. Casuals are mostly adults and people with real-life responsibilities that have less time to play. Obviously, the casuals are the ones who have jobs and access to disposable income, and therefore have far more money to spend in the crown store than the kids who live in their moms' basements.


Seriously though, there's one main reason why game developers don't like to try to cater to the "hardcore" players: They are typically impossible to please.

Look at things like VMA. There's an example of content that probably less than 10% of the playerbase can even complete. Yet how many times do you see posts where someone is complaining (about VMA) that "Oh, it's such a grind. It's not even a challenge anymore. We need something new." Or if not that, things like, "The challenge is all just stupid mechanics. It's not REAL challenge, it's just lazy." Constant complaining about how "easy" something that most of the players of this game will likely never complete.

Yet look at how many people get excited when the release a cool-looking new mount? You know who the vast majority of those people are? Casuals.

Given all this, who would YOU cater to, if you wanted to make money?

LMAO - One of my friends is actually rich in the real world, and used to play this game non-stop. His mother's basement was nowhere to be found.

I take care of my children, do my job, do volunteer work at a community center four days in a week, have two hour conversations with my wife, mow my lawn, read, write songs, watch Netflix, sleep, eat, do research on current events, and drive for a total of two hours everyday. And I play everyday, have a total of 10 characters, 5 of them are veteran ranked, 3 are maxed out. So I'm considered a hardcore player.

Oh, and in case you didn't understand all that. I live in my own house. So I'll just continue to laugh at your narrow-minded a**. And people think I stereotype -LOL.

What is your goal here then? To separate the community based on their own beliefs of weather they are hardcore or not? I have a similar life situation to what you describe yet I don't consider myself hardcore.

Xjcon wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Like I stated before, the large portion of the money is not really coming from the casual players. How can that be possible?

You keep saying that, and I'm pretty sure it's still completely wrong.

Because crown store items are mostly cosmetic crap that provides no functional advantage, I would bet a month's salary that the vast majority of the crown store sales come from the players you would call casuals. They are the ones more likely to go nuts over a new mount or pet, and toss money at "convenience" items like the banker and stuff that gives them more out of their limited playtime.

Also, just for fun, since you seem to like arguments based on stereotypes, I can even make one for this (please note, this is for illustrative purposes only, and is not meant to be taken seriously, or to reflect my actual views):

Hardcore gamers are mostly kids and people with no jobs that live in basements and have plenty of time to play ESO all day long. Casuals are mostly adults and people with real-life responsibilities that have less time to play. Obviously, the casuals are the ones who have jobs and access to disposable income, and therefore have far more money to spend in the crown store than the kids who live in their moms' basements.


Seriously though, there's one main reason why game developers don't like to try to cater to the "hardcore" players: They are typically impossible to please.

Look at things like VMA. There's an example of content that probably less than 10% of the playerbase can even complete. Yet how many times do you see posts where someone is complaining (about VMA) that "Oh, it's such a grind. It's not even a challenge anymore. We need something new." Or if not that, things like, "The challenge is all just stupid mechanics. It's not REAL challenge, it's just lazy." Constant complaining about how "easy" something that most of the players of this game will likely never complete.

Yet look at how many people get excited when the release a cool-looking new mount? You know who the vast majority of those people are? Casuals.

Given all this, who would YOU cater to, if you wanted to make money?

LMAO - One of my friends is actually rich in the real world, and used to play this game non-stop. His mother's basement was nowhere to be found.

I take care of my children, do my job, do volunteer work at a community center four days in a week, have two hour conversations with my wife, mow my lawn, read, write songs, watch Netflix, sleep, eat, do research on current events, and drive for a total of two hours everyday. And I play everyday, have a total of 10 characters, 5 of them are veteran ranked, 3 are maxed out. So I'm considered a hardcore player.

Oh, and in case you didn't understand all that. I live in my own house. So I'll just continue to laugh at your narrow-minded a**. And people think I stereotype -LOL.

What is your goal here then? To separate the community based on their own beliefs of weather they are hardcore or not? I have a similar life situation to what you describe yet I don't consider myself hardcore.

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.

Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.

Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.

Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?

The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.

So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.

I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.

The problem with your argument, like most emotional arguments, is it is based on multiple fallacies.

1.) that "not much money can be made" off of casual games.
2.) that hardcore games spend money on the game.
3.) that a hard core server would be more populated.
4.) that hard core players are "keeping the game alive".

Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas. Where do you get this data. If you can't show your sources then your statements are simply the opinion of a "hardcore" player that wants what he/she wants. The fact that you say casual gamers are too stupid to even know how to use the crown store shows that your bias is not based in fact, but in what you want.

Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;

Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do.

Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO.

That is why the game developers (who have the data at hand to see these things) have focused on the things they have. Why would they produce DLC after DLC over a period of two years for the casual/roleplaying population if it were not making them money? How would they still be financially viable? Why is the number Cyrodiiil campaigns smaller while the number of "roleplaying" zones larger?

So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions, the devs (and really the rest of us) are probably simply going to continue to think you're doing what you're doing, which is complaining because you want something that you are unlikely to get.

Perhaps you have cataracts. I could have sworn I started the thread off with "It is MY BELIEF..."

I know you were trying to come off all smart and such, with your whole, "Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas." or "So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions ....". See your argument would have had more validity if you hadn't included in it your own assumptions, like

"Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;"

"Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do."

"Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO."



Then you place more egg on your face by claiming I used the word "stupid" to identify causal players regarding the Crown Store; when I did no such thing. Don't project your own identifying marks on to me. It is you who subconsciously or consciously considers anyone that can't use the Crown Store to be stupid - not me. My friend had a hard time with the Crown store, and I would not call him stupid.

I do, however, enjoy making people look stupid once-in-awhile. But my making a spectacle of their debacles falls solely in their lap for making it so easy to do to the aforementioned post.

And just to answer your question regarding DLC. Whether we know it or not, these companies answer to a higher authority that usually know nothing about gaming, and just want their money. By making the game easier, the devs are hoping that it will draw in the general population, but it's a gamble. Any game developer knows that games are more successful due to the challenges within the content, nicely laced around quality graphics and a hopefully interesting story or purpose. This is why Dark Souls is still popular - to name one. Often times an argument has to be made on the "hardcore" communities behalf by the developers to their financiers, in order for the 'H' community to not feel bored or ostracized. But at the end of it, they have to do what they're told. And here we are. Their approach is to make the content interesting, while making it 'C' player friendly. Just for the record, I am not a PvPer. I have done it, but prefer not to. I don't support it, and feel that it disrupts the endeavor at pseudo-balancing the game. There is no such thing, and contradicts the illusory attempt at variety with builds, armor, creativity, play-style, and choice. But it's necessary for the developers to at least look like their trying to even the playing field for the less combat- knowledgeable players, otherwise the game will suffer.

I'm well aware that a busy server is better than an empty one. And perhaps that's why some 'H' players feel ignored. The MMO genre is more about the population, and not combat-prowess.

Ah, so you have no sources...

My point is made.

Nice fluff OP, but my point stands. You "beliefs" are erroneous and don't stand up to the basics of logic. Your "beliefs" can't be supported by reality and so your post is mostly pointless.

In the end you are simply complaining that you are not getting what you want and clothing it in a series of statements you have no evidence to support.

You seem to partake in an unlovely characteristic that many (but certainly not all) of the "hardcore/pvp" minority seem to hold, and that is that because you play more hours of the game your "wants" should be more important. They aren't.

Here is reality for you; ESO exists to make money. You do not make them enough money to matter as much as "casuals". Unless you change that dynamic by spending enough money to outbalance the huge "casual" population this is not going to change.

Will the devs produce content for you? Yes. The amount produced is likely to be more or less in direct relation to how much money you make for them. That is how the world works.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

I really think people are reading far too much into Matt Firor's comments in the E3 article. No where did he say "Hardcore players are teh lame, casuals are awesome!!!1!1" Case in point, what are we getting in the next patch?

• Two new dungeons that, if the IC dungeons are any indicator, will have very difficult veteran modes, at least to start (for the hardcore folks).
• Scaling up of all the remaining underleveled endgame activities (for the hardcore folks again).
• NO overland, one-shot, OMG faceroll carebear zone or quests (sorry casuals!).
• Character customization / race change (really everyone wants this, but the race change is for hardcore min-maxers).

Update 11 is the closest thing we've had to a hardcore-centric update since Craglorn, or maybe IC. Yet there is almost no end to the "Oh noes ZOS doesn't love me because I play every day!" rhetoric. *sigh*

What makes you think I even read the article you just mentioned? I have no idea what you're speaking of.

Okay, enlighten us. Why are you salty about the whole causal vs hardcore thing? Were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? What exactly is your problem?

As stated by many before me, "the game has become extremely easy". The new Gold Coast is too easy. Where did the challenge go? So I wanted to make a point what separate servers, meant for a particular player base, would look like.

So again, were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? Does it not make sense for ZOS to cater to both crowds and maximize their profits?

It makes perfect sense. And yes, I'm aware of the content coming. But it remains to be seen whether or not it poses a challenge. And just for the record, I never claimed the 'C' players shouldn't be catered to. I was comparing the two, and was expressing my views as to why the 'H' community should be focused on more - that's how I feel. "Hardcore" for me, means the people that are playing more and have become better at the game because of it.

Xjcon wrote: »

I think the OP is delusional. While the hardcore community plays the game more often, I bet the casual community has more money to spend.

RebornV3x wrote: »

The reason the more hardcore playerbase should be catered to is because those players then to stick around longer where casual players play a month or 2 and then there on to the newest shiny game release and never play again. What most the industry is doing today is trying to make games for those casuals the funny part is catering to casuals never work since they don't stick around long enough to care what happens with the game and then everyone else has to suffer.

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

I really think people are reading far too much into Matt Firor's comments in the E3 article. No where did he say "Hardcore players are teh lame, casuals are awesome!!!1!1" Case in point, what are we getting in the next patch?

• Two new dungeons that, if the IC dungeons are any indicator, will have very difficult veteran modes, at least to start (for the hardcore folks).
• Scaling up of all the remaining underleveled endgame activities (for the hardcore folks again).
• NO overland, one-shot, OMG faceroll carebear zone or quests (sorry casuals!).
• Character customization / race change (really everyone wants this, but the race change is for hardcore min-maxers).

Update 11 is the closest thing we've had to a hardcore-centric update since Craglorn, or maybe IC. Yet there is almost no end to the "Oh noes ZOS doesn't love me because I play every day!" rhetoric. *sigh*

What makes you think I even read the article you just mentioned? I have no idea what you're speaking of.

Okay, enlighten us. Why are you salty about the whole causal vs hardcore thing? Were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? What exactly is your problem?

As stated by many before me, "the game has become extremely easy". The new Gold Coast is too easy. Where did the challenge go? So I wanted to make a point what separate servers, meant for a particular player base, would look like.

So again, were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? Does it not make sense for ZOS to cater to both crowds and maximize their profits?

It makes perfect sense. And yes, I'm aware of the content coming. But it remains to be seen whether or not it poses a challenge. And just for the record, I never claimed the 'C' players shouldn't be catered to. I was comparing the two, and was expressing my views as to why the 'H' community should be focused on more - that's how I feel. "Hardcore" for me, means the people that are playing more and have become better at the game because of it.

No, that is not how you "feel". That is how you think.

I feel happy. I feel sad. You "feel" frustrated because you are not getting what you want.

We "feel" annoyed because you are trying to argue based on untrue statements you can't back up.

If you had simply created a thread with the heading "I think I should get what I want because I play the game more hours then you", perhaps we wouldn't "feel" annoyed with all your complaining. We would still be laughing at you, but we wouldn't "feel" annoyed.

A feeling is an emotion. A belief is a thought, a concept. A person that tries to defend his beliefs by stating them as feelings is usually doing so because they are unable to defend those beliefs based on facts.