Kalifas wrote: »

In terms of investment

• Casual plays in shorts spurts, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and usually despise grind.
• Midcore play when they want long or short, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and the grind acceptance varies by player.
• Hardcore plays in long durations, can be very skilled, learns everything about the game, and doesn't mind grind as long as it is not over the top.

In terms of playstyle

• Carebears don't care about learning or what is best, they just wanna have fun. Fun before everything else.
• Veterans care about learning fundamentals and some advanced stuff, they want to have some fun and some decent challenge.
• Elite want to learn everything about the game, the fun is the challenge, and whoever is not up to par is a detriment.

I know it's not a black and white there are different shades of grey in most people.

Sticking with Hardcasual, myself.

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.

Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.

Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.

Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?

The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.

So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.

I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.

The problem with your argument, like most emotional arguments, is it is based on multiple fallacies.

1.) that "not much money can be made" off of casual games.
2.) that hardcore games spend money on the game.
3.) that a hard core server would be more populated.
4.) that hard core players are "keeping the game alive".

Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas. Where do you get this data. If you can't show your sources then your statements are simply the opinion of a "hardcore" player that wants what he/she wants. The fact that you say casual gamers are too stupid to even know how to use the crown store shows that your bias is not based in fact, but in what you want.

Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;

Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do.

Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO.

That is why the game developers (who have the data at hand to see these things) have focused on the things they have. Why would they produce DLC after DLC over a period of two years for the casual/roleplaying population if it were not making them money? How would they still be financially viable? Why is the number Cyrodiiil campaigns smaller while the number of "roleplaying" zones larger?

So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions, the devs (and really the rest of us) are probably simply going to continue to think you're doing what you're doing, which is complaining because you want something that you are unlikely to get.

Perhaps you have cataracts. I could have sworn I started the thread off with "It is MY BELIEF..."

I know you were trying to come off all smart and such, with your whole, "Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas." or "So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions ....". See your argument would have had more validity if you hadn't included in it your own assumptions, like

"Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;"

"Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do."

"Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO."



Then you place more egg on your face by claiming I used the word "stupid" to identify causal players regarding the Crown Store; when I did no such thing. Don't project your own identifying marks on to me. It is you who subconsciously or consciously considers anyone that can't use the Crown Store to be stupid - not me. My friend had a hard time with the Crown store, and I would not call him stupid.

I do, however, enjoy making people look stupid once-in-awhile. But my making a spectacle of their debacles falls solely in their lap for making it so easy to do to the aforementioned post.

And just to answer your question regarding DLC. Whether we know it or not, these companies answer to a higher authority that usually know nothing about gaming, and just want their money. By making the game easier, the devs are hoping that it will draw in the general population, but it's a gamble. Any game developer knows that games are more successful due to the challenges within the content, nicely laced around quality graphics and a hopefully interesting story or purpose. This is why Dark Souls is still popular - to name one. Often times an argument has to be made on the "hardcore" communities behalf by the developers to their financiers, in order for the 'H' community to not feel bored or ostracized. But at the end of it, they have to do what they're told. And here we are. Their approach is to make the content interesting, while making it 'C' player friendly. Just for the record, I am not a PvPer. I have done it, but prefer not to. I don't support it, and feel that it disrupts the endeavor at pseudo-balancing the game. There is no such thing, and contradicts the illusory attempt at variety with builds, armor, creativity, play-style, and choice. But it's necessary for the developers to at least look like their trying to even the playing field for the less combat- knowledgeable players, otherwise the game will suffer.

I'm well aware that a busy server is better than an empty one. And perhaps that's why some 'H' players feel ignored. The MMO genre is more about the population, and not combat-prowess.

OP "can't figure out even though its so simple" is quite the euphemism for stupid and you know it.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Kalifas wrote: »

Player and gear checks when using grouping tool:
Normal:
There is no strict gear or dps checks, very easy to get groups

Veteran:
There is a mandatory minimum on gear and dps check, a little harder to get groups due to requirements

Elite:
There is a strict check, must have BiS and a high dps check, alot harder to get groups due to strict requirements

It would probably do more harm than in terms of making grouping easier. However, players would have less drama due to knowing requirements and not fueling anger due to mismatching goals.

If ZOS ever instates a gear check or gear score or some other in-game metric to measure gear, or inspect another players' gear; that's the moment I cancel my sub and quit.

Dealt with enough of that *** in WoW, getting dropped from groups because my gloves weren't purple.
Of course I don't have the best gear, that's why I'm running the god damned dungeon you tools!
Gear does not make the player.

Plenty of players with crap gear who do just fine, and plenty of players with great gear who play like crap.

Exactly! That's why I used to hate the people who always say "LFG vWGT must have achievement linked" well obviously I am not gonna have the experience or the achievement if nobody wants to group or take the time to teach me. Luckily I don't have an issue with that anymore but I feel for others who still want to learn it but nobody will teach them.

No thanks, the idea is wholly divisive and would offer no advantage to the game. What next, all those who don't have the right build are not only kicked from their group but also relegated to the inferior players' server? Get over yourself!

Lysette wrote: »

Kalifas wrote: »

In terms of investment

• Casual plays in shorts spurts, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and usually despise grind.
• Midcore play when they want long or short, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and the grind acceptance varies by player.
• Hardcore plays in long durations, can be very skilled, learns everything about the game, and doesn't mind grind as long as it is not over the top.

In terms of playstyle

• Carebears don't care about learning or what is best, they just wanna have fun. Fun before everything else.
• Veterans care about learning fundamentals and some advanced stuff, they want to have some fun and some decent challenge.
• Elite want to learn everything about the game, the fun is the challenge, and whoever is not up to par is a detriment.

I know it's not a black and white there are different shades of grey in most people.

Well, I would not say tha carebears do not want to learn the game, they have just a different focus and would not do something, what takes the fun out of the game. I would say that is a pretty healthy and sane mentality. Those who accept boring grind and dedicate all their spare time to gaming are clearly not healthy, but have addiction issues.

I see addictive gaming as no different than any other passion. If someone dedicates all their free time to mastering a craft say like the cure for cancer or becoming a guitar virtuoso, they get praise and the unhealthy aspect rarely gets assigned to them. If someone dedicates all their spare time to painting that label doesn't get assigned to them either.

You only have one life and what you choose to do with that should be whatever lights you up. If healthy means I have to do only do things I love in short spurts and do other things I don't love as much, then I want to die.

The game dedication thing is not me. But it is not something only kids do. And if that is their passion then I hope they never stop pursuing that for money or just for the experience.

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

Mo' like bias. Also to specify:

Newb means new to the game.
Noob means skill-less or lesser-skilled.

No, it's experience.
He conducted a census of the entire game populace.

He knows every player, how long they've been playing, how they play, how good they are. All of it.

You must have just forgotten about the time you filled out his questionnaire.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

Mo' like bias. Also to specify:

Newb means new to the game.
Noob means skill-less or lesser-skilled.

No, it's experience.
He conducted a census of the entire game populace.

He knows every player, how long they've been playing, how they play, how good they are. All of it.

You must have just forgotten about the time you filled out his questionnaire.

You can't relate experience to judgment. Doesn't work that way.

P.S. I know you're being sarcastic but just saiyan

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

Mo' like bias. Also to specify:

Newb means new to the game.
Noob means skill-less or lesser-skilled.

No, it's experience.
He conducted a census of the entire game populace.

He knows every player, how long they've been playing, how they play, how good they are. All of it.

You must have just forgotten about the time you filled out his questionnaire.

You can't relate experience to judgment. Doesn't work that way.

P.S. I know you're being sarcastic but just saiyan

Sure I can.
If dude can equate opinion to fact, I can relate whatever to whatever else.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.

You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.

How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.

It's called experience.

Mo' like bias. Also to specify:

Newb means new to the game.
Noob means skill-less or lesser-skilled.

Riiiight. And your perspective of me isn't? lol - It's funny how people always know what you are, but ignore what they become to tell you about it.

Thanks for slang 101, but I'm well aware of what the terms mean. I was referring to the new players. It takes them time to learn the game.

And people really need to stop calling me elite. I can't take all these compliments.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Casual:

So what about hardcasuals?

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Casual:

So what about hardcasuals?

We are the chips.

I see.