The bane to ESO - Nightblades

susmitds · June 2016

ArcVelarian wrote: »

The fundamental problem is that they have far too much survivability for how much burst they have. Nerf that survivability significantly and nerf the damage slightly.

Templars have over twice that survivability and even more raw DPS. Burst is not everything about damage.

Egonieser · June 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW

Infact one time I was ganked by a Nightblade Duelwielding Maces of I guess unresistable damage with sharpen. That was not a fun time for my poor old Mage Character. I also raged for a good 30 minutes because I was dead in seconds.

Sounds like something I do at the moment on my stamblade. You sure it wasn't me? :P

FortheloveofKrist · June 2016

DDuke wrote: »

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

My main is stamblade. Gotta love the cloak now.

*Poof*
"HaHA! You can't see m--"
*UnPoof*
"Oh Sh**"

Pomaikai · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

The main problem is ZOS listens to anyone.
Class balance should be an equation that balances.
Nerf this and buff that should be irrelevant for and against any class by anyone.
Because opinion is irrelevant.

Its embarassing that players have to point out obvious defficiencies.
But ZOS appears to tune by committee and feel instead of cold hard math.

They can argue the system has complex interactions, unbalancable and unmanageable.
My answer is KISS.
Try to be too clever and all you do is tie yourself in knots and bamboozle yourself.
As well as make the systems almost impossible to hand over and document.

The biggest problem that we've all seen, regardless of the class we play, or if we do PVE or PVP is that ZOS hires programmers who have flunked "cold hard math" in school. Hence we see tune by committee.

brandonv516 · June 2016

The bane of nightblades existence: large spread out groups.

Thank Zen for spam-cloak + bonus speed

Bouldercleave · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

The main problem is ZOS listens to anyone.
Class balance should be an equation that balances.
Nerf this and buff that should be irrelevant for and against any class by anyone.
Because opinion is irrelevant.

Its embarassing that players have to point out obvious defficiencies.
But ZOS appears to tune by committee and feel instead of cold hard math.

They can argue the system has complex interactions, unbalancable and unmanageable.
My answer is KISS.
Try to be too clever and all you do is tie yourself in knots and bamboozle yourself.
As well as make the systems almost impossible to hand over and document.

The biggest problem that we've all seen, regardless of the class we play, or if we do PVE or PVP is that ZOS hires programmers who have flunked "cold hard math" in school. Hence we see tune by committee.

You all should apply for a job there - you guys seem to have programming all figured out.

While everyone loves to bash and *** from the couch, how many have actually come up with a WORKING solution to the problem? All I see is opinions and rants.

Lumenn · June 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

My main is stamblade. Gotta love the cloak now.

*Poof*
"HaHA! You can't see m--"
*UnPoof*
"Oh Sh**"

Had to throw an awesome there. Too true

Pomaikai · June 2016

Lumenn wrote: »

It's odd reading this. I started the game last month. I used to play EQ from launch +8 years or so and mained a monk (i like melee). Every post I found and others responding to me claimed go magicka templar, easy mode etc etc. Stamblade only good for PvP and suck pve solo(my preferred play style) sorcerer/mageplar faceroll game for first character. Despite the naysayers I made a stamina nb and figured I'd just slog through whatever comes(if I can solo an ikksar monk -20% exp and can't loot due to weight limits on EQ, I'll do ok here. NOW some are saying, all around, nb are OP in a month?

Except you KNOW that Monks were always the OP class in EQ.

Look, in every MMO the Dev's have a pet class. The one that they really like to play. Maybe it's just the guy in charge of class balance, or maybe it's the entire team, but there is ALWAYS a favorite. That favorite class ALWAYS stays on top. Whether it's armor, damage, skills, spells, or whatever else makes up that particular class, they'll always float to the top. Sure, they may get buffed SO much that the Dev team has no choice but to pull them back a bit via a nerf, but even then they'll still come out smelling like a rose.

It's really funny that someone else made this post, because I was going to make the EQ Monk vs ESO Nightblade comparison myself. They're the "teacher's pets", so to speak, of their respective games and it's really obvious. I mean @ZOS_MattFiror has even stated on an ESO Live segment how much he loves "ganking" other players.

Lumenn · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

It's odd reading this. I started the game last month. I used to play EQ from launch +8 years or so and mained a monk (i like melee). Every post I found and others responding to me claimed go magicka templar, easy mode etc etc. Stamblade only good for PvP and suck pve solo(my preferred play style) sorcerer/mageplar faceroll game for first character. Despite the naysayers I made a stamina nb and figured I'd just slog through whatever comes(if I can solo an ikksar monk -20% exp and can't loot due to weight limits on EQ, I'll do ok here. NOW some are saying, all around, nb are OP in a month?

Except you KNOW that Monks were always the OP class in EQ.

Look, in every MMO the Dev's have a pet class. The one that they really like to play. Maybe it's just the guy in charge of class balance, or maybe it's the entire team, but there is ALWAYS a favorite. That favorite class ALWAYS stays on top. Whether it's armor, damage, skills, spells, or whatever else makes up that particular class, they'll always float to the top. Sure, they may get buffed SO much that the Dev team has no choice but to pull them back a bit via a nerf, but even then they'll still come out smelling like a rose.

It's really funny that someone else made this post, because I was going to make the EQ Monk vs ESO Nightblade comparison myself. They're the "teacher's pets", so to speak, of their respective games and it's really obvious. I mean @ZOS_MattFiror has even stated on an ESO Live segment how much he loves "ganking" other players.

Not sure what monk became in the last 8 + years on EQ but when I played they weren't anyone's favorite. Before craftable weight reducing bags, weight limits. Nerfed our mitigation because of the ac of one pair of pants only the top 1% players could get at end game.(seriously why nerf a whole class due to a rare item you created that few would get till later....) Made bards able to single pull better than us(our claim to fame) rogues out damaged us, warriors out tanked us. Hybrids and magic out solo'd us. BUT! We COULD solo melee and even fd afk if needed. I quit about the time they started giving monks so many abilities they might as well have been hybrids.

NBrookus · June 2016

"Teacher's pet" is a good way to put it. Nightblades are a class that feel like they were crafted with love and a clear and consistent vision. They've been given 3 of 4 DLCs that catered to them. Poisons were practically designed for their playstyle.

I wish we had developers that are as passionate about the other classes.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

Justice31st · June 2016

Nightblades fear is incredibly OP against magicka builds.

mr1sho · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

that sounds nice they also should give everyone unicorn mounts that farts rainbows when it sprints Kappa

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

that sounds nice they also should give everyone unicorn mounts that farts rainbows when it sprints Kappa

Such erudite analysis, truly your intellect is dizzying.

mr1sho · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

that sounds nice they also should give everyone unicorn mounts that farts rainbows when it sprints Kappa

Such erudite analysis, truly your intellect is dizzying.

Well thank you I have been told that I'm as charming as a Jehovah Witness on Sunday morning

MaxwellC · June 2016

@Ch4mpTW
Well said, people always run around claiming that Stam DK is so OP in PvP and I'm like "HA! Where?" I fight a NB and struggle if I don't use some detect pots with immovable on it. This patch has buff'd them again allowing them to hit 10k on an ultimate that cost 50 but allows you to stun the player (always) + do increased damage to affected player and I believe reduce their healing like what?

Proxy det NBs still around hitting people who run right near me with that soul tether combo which for some reason I can't heal for nothing when they mix it up with funnel or w/e that ability is called.
NBs need a Major Nerf over all and the cloak spam is one thing that needs to be addressed with the same treatment bolt escape received while making sure all ultimates cost 100+ not some ridiculously low 50.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

that sounds nice they also should give everyone unicorn mounts that farts rainbows when it sprints Kappa

Such erudite analysis, truly your intellect is dizzying.

Well thank you I have been told that I'm as charming as a Jehovah Witness on Sunday morning

The solution is offered because the entire reason Nightblade was the only one to have cloak available was that they ALSO were the only class to not have an actual shield. That truth no longer exists now that other actual shields have come available to them. The disadvantage is gone, and left with nothing but advantage. I'm sorry but I'm very pro-Nightblade and I do think this is a good solution to the issue. Their passive bonuses still give them vastly more preferential treatment while cloaked and hidden anyways.

mr1sho · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

My solution is that they give cloak to everyone else via the Thieves Guild or Legerdemain skill line. NB's will still be superior at cloaking with the passives they have, and it would make the stealth content a lot less punitive toward non-Nightblades, just saying.

that sounds nice they also should give everyone unicorn mounts that farts rainbows when it sprints Kappa

Such erudite analysis, truly your intellect is dizzying.

Well thank you I have been told that I'm as charming as a Jehovah Witness on Sunday morning

The solution is offered because the entire reason Nightblade was the only one to have cloak available was that they ALSO were the only class to not have an actual shield. That truth no longer exists now that other actual shields have come available to them. The disadvantage is gone, and left with nothing but advantage. I'm sorry but I'm very pro-Nightblade and I do think this is a good solution to the issue. Their passive bonuses still give them vastly more preferential treatment while cloaked and hidden anyways.

just say NO

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW
Well said, people always run around claiming that Stam DK is so OP in PvP and I'm like "HA! Where?" I fight a NB and struggle if I don't use some detect pots with immovable on it. This patch has buff'd them again allowing them to hit 10k on an ultimate that cost 50 but allows you to stun the player (always) + do increased damage to affected player and I believe reduce their healing like what?

Proxy det NBs still around hitting people who run right near me with that soul tether combo which for some reason I can't heal for nothing when they mix it up with funnel or w/e that ability is called.
NBs need a Major Nerf over all and the cloak spam is one thing that needs to be addressed with the same treatment bolt escape received while making sure all ultimates cost 100+ not some ridiculously low 50.

Once again I see someone talking about the mystical StamagBlade. A NB with the burst of stamina from the buffed Incapacitating Strike and the survivability of magicka from cloak spam and HP drains.

Tavore1138 · June 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

Sure. That'd be easy to do. ^_^ As for how much I think NB's run the forums...? Look at this very thread, and observe it for however long it remains trending. Or better yet, go and read any thread that speaks out against Nightblades. Lol.

The problem here is you have created your own self-fulfilling paranoid conspiracy theory... now anyone who disagrees is part of the giant night blade conspiracy looking to silence your righteous fight for justice... so if people agree then you will pat yourself on the back and if they disagree you'll just retreat in your self-delusion that they are part of a conspiracy against you (you aren't Donald Trump are you?).

P.S. I do have a NB character and won't be able to reply immediately to any responses as I have to go to the secret meeting of NBs about how to control the forums... shhh!

DDuke · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

It's odd reading this. I started the game last month. I used to play EQ from launch +8 years or so and mained a monk (i like melee). Every post I found and others responding to me claimed go magicka templar, easy mode etc etc. Stamblade only good for PvP and suck pve solo(my preferred play style) sorcerer/mageplar faceroll game for first character. Despite the naysayers I made a stamina nb and figured I'd just slog through whatever comes(if I can solo an ikksar monk -20% exp and can't loot due to weight limits on EQ, I'll do ok here. NOW some are saying, all around, nb are OP in a month?

Except you KNOW that Monks were always the OP class in EQ.

Look, in every MMO the Dev's have a pet class. The one that they really like to play. Maybe it's just the guy in charge of class balance, or maybe it's the entire team, but there is ALWAYS a favorite. That favorite class ALWAYS stays on top. Whether it's armor, damage, skills, spells, or whatever else makes up that particular class, they'll always float to the top. Sure, they may get buffed SO much that the Dev team has no choice but to pull them back a bit via a nerf, but even then they'll still come out smelling like a rose.

It's really funny that someone else made this post, because I was going to make the EQ Monk vs ESO Nightblade comparison myself. They're the "teacher's pets", so to speak, of their respective games and it's really obvious. I mean @ZOS_MattFiror has even stated on an ESO Live segment how much he loves "ganking" other players.

Well... sheesh, what can I say? You've got it all figured out.

The class who's main defensive skill fails to function most of the time (and has been broken for months without a single dev post about it) & who is the worst PvE DPS must be developers' pet class.

It makes perfect sense folks.

Back to planet Reality: can you imagine if Hardened Ward (or Dampen Magic in this patch) failed to apply 80% time? Or if instead of 6 seconds, it lasted only ~0,8s?

Because that's NB cloak at the moment, which half of you QQers probably didn't know because you only play your 20k health sorcerers who got instagibbed when shield was down by a build made for instagibbing (or alternatively: losing).

Tryxus · June 2016

I was gonna make a detailed reply on how I think the OP is completely wrong regarding the class, but considering I have 2 NB (if you say 3, the 2nd on in the list is only a crafter), it would probably be considered biased by all the NB-haters here. So I just replaced it with a meme face, a face that I made when I was about to hit that reply button

So instead, I'm just gonna say this:

NB are strong, but they are by no means OP. Other classes can perform MUCH better than StamBlades and MagBlades in solo, PvE and PvP. And tbh, I detect a hint of pure biased NB hatred from the OP as well (also considering his post history) so his view on the class is distorted at best

If you want, I could remake that reply I wanted to make. Detailing my own experiences with the class and comparing it to the others. But you, NB-haters are gonna say it's biased and be short-sighted about it... >_>