The bane to ESO - Nightblades

Whatzituyah

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW

Infact one time I was ganked by a Nightblade Duelwielding Maces of I guess unresistable damage with sharpen. That was not a fun time for my poor old Mage Character. I also raged for a good 30 minutes because I was dead in seconds.

So would it concern you if I said my main's Swords both have Unresistable Damage enchantments on them?

No they aren't maces you get a free pass

UltimaJoe777

Whatzituyah wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW

Infact one time I was ganked by a Nightblade Duelwielding Maces of I guess unresistable damage with sharpen. That was not a fun time for my poor old Mage Character. I also raged for a good 30 minutes because I was dead in seconds.

So would it concern you if I said my main's Swords both have Unresistable Damage enchantments on them?

No they aren't maces you get a free pass

Ok then *continues to brutally gut innocent bystanders with my Swords*

Bouldercleave

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Replace Nightblades with people and you got an agree from me. Limited intelligence mixed with anger and displeasure with a side of anonymity is the problem.

This X 100

I think balance in PvP should be a game of rock, paper, scissors.

Nightblades SHOULD be able to sneak up and toast soft mage targets but weak against tanks
Tanks SHOULD be able to defend against NBs due to mitigation but be weak against magic
Sorc SHOULD be able to roast tanks in the shell, but should watch their backs against stealth

Templars should not be able to kill a damn thing, but should be able to self heal until you wear yourself out (like clubber Lang in Rocky III) then smite your little ass.

If it's not working that way, it does indeed need a bit of fixing.

Just my 2 cents

ShedsHisTail

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

The Cancer to ESO - Nightblades

Huh... Turns out I'm part of the problem here, too.

@ShedsHisTail
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...

@Ch4mpTW
I've mained a stam-build Nightblade since beta.
We were terrible back then.

I also rarely PvP, so my Nightblading has little effect on anyone else.
Also, I'm super bad at PvP, so my PvP Nightblading also has little effect on anyone else.

@ShedsHisTail
Dude, you're not a problem. You're just a player of classes. Just like me and everyone else. I really wouldn't go out of my way and say that specific people are a problem (unless the situation is extreme enough to deem it so), unless they're cheaters/exploiters (but that's a different topic all together). It's the Nightblade class that is a problem, and its effect on ESO overall.

Have you ever heard the saying of, "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" I believe that saying, and blame the devs (as I said in the initial post). Not the players (to a certain degree).

I have to respectfully disagree.
Nightblades are definitely the most interesting class I've played in the game. They're more nuanced, rely more on synergies between skills, an require a degree of thought that I haven't really encountered with other classes. What I feel is great about Nightblades as a class is that there is such a quality spectrum from one player to the next.

Other classes have a lot of mediocre to above-average; but it's only Nightblades who can be truly -bad.- That's what you don't see a lot of. There's plenty of videos of really great Nightblades out there making life hard for people, but very few videos of the vast majority who just get absolutely steamrolled.

And it goes in the other direction as well, there are lots of really good players from other classes, but I feel like it's only Nightblades that can be truly Mastered. And it's that nuance built into the class that makes it possible, the subtlety.

I really feel like it's a direction the other class designs should strive for, not something to be discouraged.

[Edit to remove problematic word]

Toc de Malsvi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

The bane of ESO - Nightblades

Huh... Turns out I'm part of the problem here, too.

@ShedsHisTail
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...

@Ch4mpTW
I've mained a stam-build Nightblade since beta.
We were terrible back then.

I also rarely PvP, so my Nightblading has little effect on anyone else.
Also, I'm super bad at PvP, so my PvP Nightblading also has little effect on anyone else.

@ShedsHisTail
Dude, you're not a problem. You're just a player of classes. Just like me and everyone else. I really wouldn't go out of my way and say that specific people are a problem (unless the situation is extreme enough to deem it so), unless they're cheaters/exploiters (but that's a different topic all together). It's the Nightblade class that is a problem, and its effect on ESO overall.

Have you ever heard the saying of, "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" I believe that saying, and blame the devs (as I said in the initial post). Not the players (to a certain degree).

I have to respectfully disagree.
Nightblades are definitely the most interesting class I've played in the game. They're more nuanced, rely more on synergies between skills, an require a degree of thought that I haven't really encountered with other classes. What I feel is great about Nightblades as a class is that there is such a quality spectrum from one player to the next.

Other classes have a lot of mediocre to above-average; but it's only Nightblades who can be truly -bad.- That's what you don't see a lot of. There's plenty of videos of really great Nightblades out there making life hard for people, but very few videos of the vast majority who just get absolutely steamrolled.

And it goes in the other direction as well, there are lots of really good players from other classes, but I feel like it's only Nightblades that can be truly Mastered. And it's that nuance built into the class that makes it possible, the subtlety.

I really feel like it's a direction the other class designs should strive for, not something to be discouraged.

Yes.

[Edit to remove problematic word]

Bouldercleave

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I have to respectfully disagree.
Nightblades are definitely the most interesting class I've played in the game. They're more nuanced, rely more on synergies between skills, an require a degree of thought that I haven't really encountered with other classes. What I feel is great about Nightblades as a class is that there is such a quality spectrum from one player to the next.

Other classes have a lot of mediocre to above-average; but it's only Nightblades who can be truly -bad.- That's what you don't see a lot of. There's plenty of videos of really great Nightblades out there making life hard for people, but very few videos of the vast majority who just get absolutely steamrolled.

And it goes in the other direction as well, there are lots of really good players from other classes, but I feel like it's only Nightblades that can be truly Mastered. And it's that nuance built into the class that makes it possible, the subtlety.

I really feel like it's a direction the other class designs should strive for, not something to be discouraged.

I agree. It's the complexity that I love about the class. It's like chess - easy to play but hard to master.

Volkodav

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Now before I get into what I have to say, let me say this: I do in fact have a Nightblade. I have 2 of them. 1 of them is magicka and the other is stamina. Both of them I've completed VMA with numerous times. The magicka one I've gotten flawless conquerer with. I also have managed to have an overall higher K/D ratio with my Nightblades than any other class in PVP, as for every death I have maybe 8 or 9 kills. If not more. So I understand the class quite well, and am not "just salty". Everything I'm about to say comes from experience with the class and what the mentality the class puts you in, and why it is such a bad thing for a game like ESO.

So first off, let's talk about the mentality the class puts you in. The class makes you feel indestructible. The class makes you feel immortal. It makes you feel god-like (according to numerous others). Why? Because you can put out insane amounts of damage, all the while healing yourself at the same exact time. But what's different from this and say something like the Templar's jabs or Sorcerer's attacks with surge, is the sheer amount of damage being done and recovery being received. It's ridiculous. And it's because of this that people will often suggest to others that if you want to succeed in VMA, to take a Nightblade. Actually, come to think of it? I see people tell beginners to create Nightblades if they're relatively new to the game. Because of the amount of damage you can do, the healing you'll receive, and the numerous situations you can cheese your way through. Can't handle a certain mob you've aggro'd or things getting too hot to handle!? Simply cloak and voila. You can make your escape. And even better, you can continue to do so without a penalty being applied like bolt escape. Where as the more you use it, the more and more the cost of it will increase. Nope. You can just cloak as much as you like.

Now on a different aspect of the psychology of a Nightblade, it makes you gather-up with all the other Nightblades and defend the class when targeted by other players for nerfs or rebalancing. Here. I'll elaborate. If you had access to something that was incredibly useful (regardless of how unfair it was to other classes), would you want it taken away? No. And so naturally you'll do any and everything to deflect the attention away from that special something. To insure it never gets rebalanced and checked, and to try and receive more buffs to it. And ZOS just keeps listening to these Nightblade mains time after time, and buffing them. All the while throwing them bone after bone. There is so much bias and favoritism toward the Nightblade class, that it's pathetic. We have had 4 DLC's now... 4. And of those 4, Nightblades excel and shine at 3 of them. 4 technically, as Maelstrom Arena is the easiest to do with Nighyblades. Both on normal and veteran difficulties.

So where is the so-called "class balance"? Because if anyone thinks Nightblades were ever balanced, I have a hard time taking you serious. And I have been around since beta days, and NB's always seemed to have the most unfair advantages over other classes. Always. Even when people claimed "Block-Knights" and other Dragonknight builds were the most broken of broken (pre-1.6 and 1.6 days), Nightblades managed to shut them down the most.

And as always, they flew right under the radar of ZOS' "class balancing" due to their numerous complaints and whines of how the class is fine. And how doing that and this would "ruin the class beyond repair". Well now, those same people have gotten Sorcerers to become ruined beyond repair, and now say baiting comments like, "Sorc tears are delicious." They'll say, "Git gud and L2P". All the while basically zerging the forums in a sense (massive gathering of NB's), and flaming and trolling anyone who speaks out against Nightblades being "rebalanced". It's disgusting, and @Wrobel and @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_MattFiror and the other developers (I don't know their forum name to tag them in) involved with "class balancing" have no one else but themselves to blame for this mess. And they should feel very bad for what they've done, as it is a shame that now for 4 DLC releases in a row? Nightblades are the best class for just about any role. Absolutely ridiculous. So I'm pretty sure that explains the problematic nature of most Nightblades.

You want so-called balance, ESO devs? Buff everyone to the Nightblade class' level, or give them the same treatment you've been giving Sorcerers patch after patch. Make their cloak cost increase with each use if done continuously like bolt escape. Make their fear/Mass Hysteria last 3-5 seconds (at max). "Rebalance" some of their ridiculous passives, and or tone them down like you did Sorcerers. How you have a skill that Sorcerers use be a passive for another class? LMAO! What? But that's balanced? Yeah, no.

Also, to add onto things. Out of curiosity, when TG was about and the whole "cake event" came about... Which class was being created the most...? It was Nightblades. And why is this? Because of the reasons I listed above. In fact, this event also marked the birth of a title called "Cake Blades". All due to the high amount of people shifting to Nightblades at this opportunity. And am I saying people didn't make other classes besides Nightblades? No. But I'm rather saying which was the most frequent.

Oh and on the topic of frequency... Which class do people tend to encounter the most in Cyrodiil? It tends to be Nightblades. And I wonder why it is. Lol. And it doesn't help either that Vicious Death came about, and further boosted Nightblade's potency. And sure, someone could say, "Don't run in groups, and keep yourself spaced out." But who are you really kidding? People are going to pack together and group-up tightly. It's just human nature to do so. When you join Cyrodiil you often hear as soon as you're in, "I have a pretty big group, who wants to join?" Or, "Looking for group." So it's natural for people (generally speaking) to want to do so. And while the combination of VD and the other skills these "Suicide Blades" use has no resource management and sustain — the damage it does makes up for it. It's a ridiculous amount of burst coming out of stealth when paired with things like Proxy Detonation and Soul Tether as well as Lotus Fan and what not. Capable of melting entire zergs (which it often does). And the frequency that was done and is done currently is through the roof. And there were how many complaints made about that combo here on the forums and in-game...? I know people who quit PVP and ESO entirely due to that very same combo being the culprit.

So really, how are Nightblades not a problem to ESO and its community? Seriously, how is it not? I genuinely want to know. Because from what I see and hear day in and day out is a damn shame. And the devs just refusing to acknowledge the problem they've created, and realize just how far out of control the problem has grown. Sounds like a problem to me.

[Edited title for Inappropriate name]

First off,..MAN that was a long wall of text!
I read the thing though.
Second,..Sorry,neither myself nor my Nightblade feel immortal,indestructible or anything like that. Dont know why you do. I have no "mentality" because I have a Nightblade. I just find it easier to level up with and I like the skill sets.
Why,if you really do have NB characters, are you crying about how OP they are? I dont get it at all.
Perhaps there are some better NB players out there who wiped you out and you're really angry about it.
Nightblades arent any problem to the ESO community.They are just an ingame class.Nothing more.They cause no God-like feelings to anyone.Well,you maybe,but not others.
They are simply a great class to play,..even if you dont know how to really use them in the beginning.Which is why people suggest the class for newbies to play.It can allow them the mistakes while learning,and aid them in getting better at playing.
Your entire very loooong post makes you seem very salty,..very very salty.

Korah_Eaglecry

The actual title should be Bane of ESO - Nerf Threads and Whining. Because thats all this is.

Takes-No-Prisoner

SirAndy wrote: »

My dedicated PvP char is a Stamblade. I made her two years ago at PC launch.

At the time, that was about the worst possible choice for PvP. It got better, then it got worse, then even worser and then it got better and better and better.

Point being, the class balance in this game changes more frequently than my underwear. I learned to live with it.
And i'll adapt to the next nerf, which i know is only a matter of time.


PS: I have 4 VR16 mains, NB/DK/Sorc/Temp and i play all 4 of them.

I was in the same boat as you, I also have 1 of every class as well. /DigitalHighFive

I can only play Stamina Nightblade sadly, but I love him dearly.

ShedsHisTail

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Ch4mpTW

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Apparently the word "cancer" is too extreme for ESO forums. Even though it has numerous meanings. It's also an astrology symbol. Lol.

ShedsHisTail

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Apparently the word "cancer" is too extreme for ESO forums. Even though it has numerous meanings. It's also an astrology symbol. Lol.

I suspect the word is fine, but using it as a pejorative is not.

Strider_Roshin

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

Sure. That'd be easy to do. ^_^ As for how much I think NB's run the forums...? Look at this very thread, and observe it for however long it remains trending. Or better yet, go and read any thread that speaks out against Nightblades. Lol.

Lol you think the forum is being ran by Nightblades because you titled your thread "The bane of ESO - Nightblades" and you got responses from Nightblades?

Try a "Nerf Radiant Destruction" thread or read one of the many threads already made on the topic.

Trust me, if any class runs the forums it's Templars.

Don't believe me? Several threads about how OP cloak is, and you get a nerf to dark cloak, and ZOS brings in a ton of abilities that specifically disable cloak. Several threads about how OP sorcs shields are and its duration is reduced to 6 seconds. Several threads about how OP Radiant Destruction is, and it is no longer dodge-able, then ZOS states that they're happy with how powerful it is. Yeah.

[Deleted User]

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Hello there,

The word we've felt necessary to remove was the term "cancer". Reason being that it was found insensitive to some members. Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

ShedsHisTail

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Hello there,

The word we've felt necessary to remove was the term "cancer". Reason being that it was found insensitive to some members. Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Thanks for the reply.
I figured it out.

Noted.

Besides, Nightblades are totally Scorpio.

KaleidoscopeEyz

A class that was designed to be the assassins of the game is good at killing? WHAT? You can't be serious.

azrual

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Hello there,

The word we've felt necessary to remove was the term "cancer". Reason being that it was found insensitive to some members. Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Thanks for the reply.
I figured it out.

Noted.

See you should have used Gemini

Autolycus

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Rofl... literally. This is the wittiest and most entertaining post on this thread.

I typically steer clear of posts like this, but I had to let @ZOS_AntonioP know that he's alright in my books

Anhedonie

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yo, @ZOS_AntonioP , which word was problematic?

Just for future reference so I don't use it again.

Hello there,

The word we've felt necessary to remove was the term "cancer". Reason being that it was found insensitive to some members. Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Wait what?!

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Rofl... literally. This is the wittiest and most entertaining post on this thread.

I typically steer clear of posts like this, but I had to let @ZOS_AntonioP know that he's alright in my books

I admit it made me chuckle too!

On topic; the issue with NB's is skill of play, an average NB player is a pain but managable, a great NB player can be godlike, we've all seen a NB kill someone in 2 seconds, stealth and get away before anyone can react, but if you catch one in a fight they're no DK

Autolycus

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Though there are many meanings behind the term, I'm sure it was not used to refer to Nightblades as a astrological sign.

We appreciate your understanding.

Rofl... literally. This is the wittiest and most entertaining post on this thread.

I typically steer clear of posts like this, but I had to let @ZOS_AntonioP know that he's alright in my books

I admit it made me chuckle too!

On topic; the issue with NB's is skill of play, an average NB player is a pain but managable, a great NB player can be godlike, we've all seen a NB kill someone in 2 seconds, stealth and get away before anyone can react, but if you catch one in a fight they're no DK

What if I told you....

....that any player with a high level of skill can do this on any class?

susmitds

So you say Nightblade is easy mode, huh?

Make a Flawless Conqueror attempt with a Stamblade right after doing it with a Magplar/Magsorc and you will understand the pain.

Cloak is useless in PvE. At best, it allows you to "pause" combat against trash mobs for few secs at the cost of magicka.

ReaX

Yeah, I agree that NBs are too strong. I had mag DK, then mag templar, but when I tried magblade i forgot about other classes. Good damage, good sustain, good healing, good mobility, good range. Everything in one. I run dungeons and vMA on my NB and it's much easier than with other toons. I even couldn't finish vMA on my mag DK, that was the worst experience I had in this game

nimander99

I rolled a Nightblade just before DB came out and thus far my experience with it is ROFLSTOMP and FACEROLL... So I'll agree with @Ch4mpTW .

My main is a Templar and though I have sustain-ability I can't take the cake in vMA or MA for that matter but with my lowbie Nightblade? Well, refer to ROFLSTOMP and FACEROLL...

Also I've been getting the feeling that the content is created with a "Thief-like" class in mind (obviously) and it's leaving every other class in the dust.

Ch4mpTW

ReaX wrote: »

Yeah, I agree that NBs are too strong. I had mag DK, then mag templar, but when I tried magblade i forgot about other classes. Good damage, good sustain, good healing, good mobility, good range. Everything in one. I run dungeons and vMA on my NB and it's much easier than with other toons. I even couldn't finish vMA on my mag DK, that was the worst experience I had in this game

nimander99 wrote: »

I rolled a Nightblade just before DB came out and thus far my experience with it is ROFLSTOMP and FACEROLL... So I'll agree with @Ch4mpTW .

My main is a Templar and though I have sustain-ability I can't take the cake in vMA or MA for that matter but with my lowbie Nightblade? Well, refer to ROFLSTOMP and FACEROLL...

Also I've been getting the feeling that the content is created with a "Thief-like" class in mind (obviously) and it's leaving every other class in the dust.

Lol. My Nightblade (magicka) the only class I've managed to pull a flawless conquerer with on more than 1 occasion. Nightblades make ESO so easy, it's honestly a mystery how the developers haven't "rebalanced" them yet. Seriously. The class is beyond "too strong". It's "overpowered" by definition (in a gaming sense).

And for the record, to those who don't quite understand — I'll elaborate. The word "overpowered" in gamin usually applies when something: Overcentralizes the meta, has little to no counters (but it may have checks), and can often outperform/outclass others (in a selection of things) by a long shot. An example of this would be Metaknight in Smash Bros. Brawl, or Ice Climbers in Melee for fighting game examples. Another example would be say Salamence in Pokémon DPP. Or Frost Mages in WoW during the "good old days".

Whatzituyah

What would be a good example character from Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS? @Ch4mpTW
Take your time I am sure there is one.

Ch4mpTW

Whatzituyah wrote: »

What would be a good example character from Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS? @Ch4mpTW
Take your time I am sure there is one.

@Whatzituyah
Easily Bayonetta and or Zero Skill Spamus (Zero Suit Samus). Reason being, because of the damn-near non-existent learning curves involved (compared to other high-tied characters like Sheik). You can master those 2 characters in like a week, and pull-off ridiculously early kills. As well as things like their janky setups and meteors/spikes. Bayonetta being as she is basically ZSS on steroids with a a better projectile game, plus an OP counter — she's basically the Metaknight of SSB4. Lol. She's the Nightblade of Smash Bros.

Katahdin

My stamblade is squishy as hell in PvP with little to no sustain. Its a trade off for high burst damage. Ive been killed by every glass and Ive killed other classes as well. Seems pretty balanced to me. NIghtblades are fine. The OP may have NB characters but Ive got a feeling he/she prefers another class and is getting killed by NB too much for their taste so they are now "OMG Nerf!!!"

Nerf the nerf threads please

AshTal

Sad thing is how un-needed this post was. Anyone who has played PvP in the last month knows
60% player base NB
20 % Templars
10 % DKS
10 % sorcs

NB are by far the most powerful class but they fit into their roll - massive burst damage, limited survivability and a great escape. As such they wont see the nerf bat hitting them like the sorcerer because they do what it says on the tin, problem is that makes them the best pvp class by far and the devs know it.

ShedsHisTail

AshTal wrote: »

Sad thing is how un-needed this post was. Anyone who has played PvP in the last month knows
60% player base NB
20 % Templars
10 % DKS
10 % sorcs

NB are by far the most powerful class but they fit into their roll - massive burst damage, limited survivability and a great escape. As such they wont see the nerf bat hitting them like the sorcerer because they do what it says on the tin, problem is that makes them the best pvp class by far and the devs know it.

Yeah, that's kinda the problem.
Nightblades are really good for short duration, hit an run, single target DPS.
Incidentally, each and every one of us is a "single target" which means Nightblades are really good at killing anyone they can get the drop on really quick. That' sorta their thing. It's also a really frustrating way to get killed since you don't have much of a chance to fight back you end up feeling really powerless.

I think that's what draws so much hate. Not that Nightblades are especially powerful; but that they make everyone else -feel- weaker.

But, as was said before, if you can outlast that initial burst and make a fight out of it; unless that Nightblade is specifically geared for a prolonged fight, he's in trouble.