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The bane to ESO - Nightblades
Ch4mpTW
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Now before I get into what I have to say, let me say this: I do in fact have a Nightblade. I have 2 of them. 1 of them is magicka and the other is stamina. Both of them I've completed VMA with numerous times. The magicka one I've gotten flawless conquerer with. I also have managed to have an overall higher K/D ratio with my Nightblades than any other class in PVP, as for every death I have maybe 8 or 9 kills. If not more. So I understand the class quite well, and am not "just salty". Everything I'm about to say comes from experience with the class and what the mentality the class puts you in, and why it is such a bad thing for a game like ESO.
So first off, let's talk about the mentality the class puts you in. The class makes you feel indestructible. The class makes you feel immortal. It makes you feel god-like (according to numerous others). Why? Because you can put out insane amounts of damage, all the while healing yourself at the same exact time. But what's different from this and say something like the Templar's jabs or Sorcerer's attacks with surge, is the sheer amount of damage being done and recovery being received. It's ridiculous. And it's because of this that people will often suggest to others that if you want to succeed in VMA, to take a Nightblade. Actually, come to think of it? I see people tell beginners to create Nightblades if they're relatively new to the game. Because of the amount of damage you can do, the healing you'll receive, and the numerous situations you can cheese your way through. Can't handle a certain mob you've aggro'd or things getting too hot to handle!? Simply cloak and voila. You can make your escape. And even better, you can continue to do so without a penalty being applied like bolt escape. Where as the more you use it, the more and more the cost of it will increase. Nope. You can just cloak as much as you like.
Now on a different aspect of the psychology of a Nightblade, it makes you gather-up with all the other Nightblades and defend the class when targeted by other players for nerfs or rebalancing. Here. I'll elaborate. If you had access to something that was incredibly useful (regardless of how unfair it was to other classes), would you want it taken away? No. And so naturally you'll do any and everything to deflect the attention away from that special something. To insure it never gets rebalanced and checked, and to try and receive more buffs to it. And ZOS just keeps listening to these Nightblade mains time after time, and buffing them. All the while throwing them bone after bone. There is so much bias and favoritism toward the Nightblade class, that it's pathetic. We have had 4 DLC's now... 4. And of those 4, Nightblades excel and shine at 3 of them. 4 technically, as Maelstrom Arena is the easiest to do with Nighyblades. Both on normal and veteran difficulties.
So where is the so-called "class balance"? Because if anyone thinks Nightblades were ever balanced, I have a hard time taking you serious. And I have been around since beta days, and NB's always seemed to have the most unfair advantages over other classes. Always. Even when people claimed "Block-Knights" and other Dragonknight builds were the most broken of broken (pre-1.6 and 1.6 days), Nightblades managed to shut them down the most.
And as always, they flew right under the radar of ZOS' "class balancing" due to their numerous complaints and whines of how the class is fine. And how doing that and this would "ruin the class beyond repair". Well now, those same people have gotten Sorcerers to become ruined beyond repair, and now say baiting comments like, "Sorc tears are delicious." They'll say, "Git gud and L2P". All the while basically zerging the forums in a sense (massive gathering of NB's), and flaming and trolling anyone who speaks out against Nightblades being "rebalanced". It's disgusting, and @Wrobel and @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_MattFiror and the other developers (I don't know their forum name to tag them in) involved with "class balancing" have no one else but themselves to blame for this mess. And they should feel very bad for what they've done, as it is a shame that now for 4 DLC releases in a row? Nightblades are the best class for just about any role. Absolutely ridiculous. So I'm pretty sure that explains the problematic nature of most Nightblades.
You want so-called balance, ESO devs? Buff everyone to the Nightblade class' level, or give them the same treatment you've been giving Sorcerers patch after patch. Make their cloak cost increase with each use if done continuously like bolt escape. Make their fear/Mass Hysteria last 3-5 seconds (at max). "Rebalance" some of their ridiculous passives, and or tone them down like you did Sorcerers. How you have a skill that Sorcerers use be a passive for another class? LMAO! What? But that's balanced? Yeah, no.
Also, to add onto things. Out of curiosity, when TG was about and the whole "cake event" came about... Which class was being created the most...? It was Nightblades. And why is this? Because of the reasons I listed above. In fact, this event also marked the birth of a title called "Cake Blades". All due to the high amount of people shifting to Nightblades at this opportunity. And am I saying people didn't make other classes besides Nightblades? No. But I'm rather saying which was the most frequent.
Oh and on the topic of frequency... Which class do people tend to encounter the most in Cyrodiil? It tends to be Nightblades. And I wonder why it is. Lol. And it doesn't help either that Vicious Death came about, and further boosted Nightblade's potency. And sure, someone could say, "Don't run in groups, and keep yourself spaced out." But who are you really kidding? People are going to pack together and group-up tightly. It's just human nature to do so. When you join Cyrodiil you often hear as soon as you're in, "I have a pretty big group, who wants to join?" Or, "Looking for group." So it's natural for people (generally speaking) to want to do so. And while the combination of VD and the other skills these "Suicide Blades" use has no resource management and sustain — the damage it does makes up for it. It's a ridiculous amount of burst coming out of stealth when paired with things like Proxy Detonation and Soul Tether as well as Lotus Fan and what not. Capable of melting entire zergs (which it often does). And the frequency that was done and is done currently is through the roof. And there were how many complaints made about that combo here on the forums and in-game...? I know people who quit PVP and ESO entirely due to that very same combo being the culprit.
So really, how are Nightblades not a problem to ESO and its community? Seriously, how is it not? I genuinely want to know. Because from what I see and hear day in and day out is a damn shame. And the devs just refusing to acknowledge the problem they've created, and realize just how far out of control the problem has grown. Sounds like a problem to me.
[Edited title for Inappropriate name]
Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:39PM So first off, let's talk about the mentality the class puts you in. The class makes you feel indestructible. The class makes you feel immortal. It makes you feel god-like (according to numerous others). Why? Because you can put out insane amounts of damage, all the while healing yourself at the same exact time. But what's different from this and say something like the Templar's jabs or Sorcerer's attacks with surge, is the sheer amount of damage being done and recovery being received. It's ridiculous. And it's because of this that people will often suggest to others that if you want to succeed in VMA, to take a Nightblade. Actually, come to think of it? I see people tell beginners to create Nightblades if they're relatively new to the game. Because of the amount of damage you can do, the healing you'll receive, and the numerous situations you can cheese your way through. Can't handle a certain mob you've aggro'd or things getting too hot to handle!? Simply cloak and voila. You can make your escape. And even better, you can continue to do so without a penalty being applied like bolt escape. Where as the more you use it, the more and more the cost of it will increase. Nope. You can just cloak as much as you like.
Now on a different aspect of the psychology of a Nightblade, it makes you gather-up with all the other Nightblades and defend the class when targeted by other players for nerfs or rebalancing. Here. I'll elaborate. If you had access to something that was incredibly useful (regardless of how unfair it was to other classes), would you want it taken away? No. And so naturally you'll do any and everything to deflect the attention away from that special something. To insure it never gets rebalanced and checked, and to try and receive more buffs to it. And ZOS just keeps listening to these Nightblade mains time after time, and buffing them. All the while throwing them bone after bone. There is so much bias and favoritism toward the Nightblade class, that it's pathetic. We have had 4 DLC's now... 4. And of those 4, Nightblades excel and shine at 3 of them. 4 technically, as Maelstrom Arena is the easiest to do with Nighyblades. Both on normal and veteran difficulties.
So where is the so-called "class balance"? Because if anyone thinks Nightblades were ever balanced, I have a hard time taking you serious. And I have been around since beta days, and NB's always seemed to have the most unfair advantages over other classes. Always. Even when people claimed "Block-Knights" and other Dragonknight builds were the most broken of broken (pre-1.6 and 1.6 days), Nightblades managed to shut them down the most.
And as always, they flew right under the radar of ZOS' "class balancing" due to their numerous complaints and whines of how the class is fine. And how doing that and this would "ruin the class beyond repair". Well now, those same people have gotten Sorcerers to become ruined beyond repair, and now say baiting comments like, "Sorc tears are delicious." They'll say, "Git gud and L2P". All the while basically zerging the forums in a sense (massive gathering of NB's), and flaming and trolling anyone who speaks out against Nightblades being "rebalanced". It's disgusting, and @Wrobel and @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_MattFiror and the other developers (I don't know their forum name to tag them in) involved with "class balancing" have no one else but themselves to blame for this mess. And they should feel very bad for what they've done, as it is a shame that now for 4 DLC releases in a row? Nightblades are the best class for just about any role. Absolutely ridiculous. So I'm pretty sure that explains the problematic nature of most Nightblades.
You want so-called balance, ESO devs? Buff everyone to the Nightblade class' level, or give them the same treatment you've been giving Sorcerers patch after patch. Make their cloak cost increase with each use if done continuously like bolt escape. Make their fear/Mass Hysteria last 3-5 seconds (at max). "Rebalance" some of their ridiculous passives, and or tone them down like you did Sorcerers. How you have a skill that Sorcerers use be a passive for another class? LMAO! What? But that's balanced? Yeah, no.
Also, to add onto things. Out of curiosity, when TG was about and the whole "cake event" came about... Which class was being created the most...? It was Nightblades. And why is this? Because of the reasons I listed above. In fact, this event also marked the birth of a title called "Cake Blades". All due to the high amount of people shifting to Nightblades at this opportunity. And am I saying people didn't make other classes besides Nightblades? No. But I'm rather saying which was the most frequent.
Oh and on the topic of frequency... Which class do people tend to encounter the most in Cyrodiil? It tends to be Nightblades. And I wonder why it is. Lol. And it doesn't help either that Vicious Death came about, and further boosted Nightblade's potency. And sure, someone could say, "Don't run in groups, and keep yourself spaced out." But who are you really kidding? People are going to pack together and group-up tightly. It's just human nature to do so. When you join Cyrodiil you often hear as soon as you're in, "I have a pretty big group, who wants to join?" Or, "Looking for group." So it's natural for people (generally speaking) to want to do so. And while the combination of VD and the other skills these "Suicide Blades" use has no resource management and sustain — the damage it does makes up for it. It's a ridiculous amount of burst coming out of stealth when paired with things like Proxy Detonation and Soul Tether as well as Lotus Fan and what not. Capable of melting entire zergs (which it often does). And the frequency that was done and is done currently is through the roof. And there were how many complaints made about that combo here on the forums and in-game...? I know people who quit PVP and ESO entirely due to that very same combo being the culprit.
So really, how are Nightblades not a problem to ESO and its community? Seriously, how is it not? I genuinely want to know. Because from what I see and hear day in and day out is a damn shame. And the devs just refusing to acknowledge the problem they've created, and realize just how far out of control the problem has grown. Sounds like a problem to me.
[Edited title for Inappropriate name]
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Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason, I read the title as "The bane of ESO - PvP".
[Edit to remove problematic word]Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:48PMOf course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
-Berj Stoneheart11 -
Psyonico✭✭✭Just throwing this out there... devs don't make changes based on people complaining, they do it based on data mining. The complaints might be cause to do said data mining, but just because people say it is/isn't balanced doesn't mean diddly.9
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Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭Im a nightblade but not disagreeing with you. Infact I prefer to use a templar over a nightblade but the nightblade I have is now my main so what am I gonna do? Just throwing that out there. I like how nightblades are but if I have to abandon my dodge tank than I will.Edited by Whatzituyah on June 17, 2016 7:14PMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:48PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'd say the problem to us Nightblades is we are misunderstood. Guess it can't be helped though; we're damn good at scaring people
[Edit to remove problematic word]Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:48PMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy6 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..7 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedsHisTail
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 8:34PM5 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
Trying to make amends?Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 8:34PMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah3 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.
Sure. That'd be easy to do. ^_^ As for how much I think NB's run the forums...? Look at this very thread, and observe it for however long it remains trending. Or better yet, go and read any thread that speaks out against Nightblades. Lol.
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
Trying to make amends?
@Whatzituyah
Amends? For and to what? Everything I say and write I mean. I take nothing back that I have said. Never have, and never will.1 -
sirrmattus✭✭✭✭✭All Nb are good for is dropping veil in raidsEbonheart Pact - North American Server
- THE MORALES -3 -
Azor_Ahaii✭✭✭[Quoted content removed]
I was being sarcastic, I probably should have added a /s there. I don't fully agree with you though. Cloak is almost useless as it's currently broken, everything brings you out of cloak. It is also nb's only defensive skill, sorcs have their shields, templars have their massive heals and dks have their reflective scales. Also prior to DB magicka sorcs were the easiest class to use for vma and were on top of the leader boards. Things change and different classes will be better a different things. Currently stam dk does the highest dps in pve.
Also if you can survive the initial burst of a nightblade in pvp then you should be able to kill most of them. Most nightblades are only good at burst and have very low survivability. Their heals (stam nb) are lower compared to other classes such as templars and dks. To me nightblades aren't the best at anything (possibly burst) but they are good at most things.Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 8:42PM8 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
Trying to make amends?
@Whatzituyah
Amends? For and to what? Everything I say and write I mean. I take nothing back that I have said. Never have, and never will.
@Ch4mpTW
No not that I am not against you at all.Whatzituyah wrote: »Im a nightblade but not disagreeing with you. Infact I prefer to use a templar over a nightblade but the nightblade I have is now my main so what am I gonna do? Just throwing that out there. I like how nightblades are but if I have to abandon my dodge tank than I will.
Just that you got attention of a casual and trying to not make a conflict I think.https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personally I have one character of each class and I gravitate to the Nightblade simply because I like the play style better. I like the stealthy approach, and get a bit of an adrenaline rush from sneaking around and exploring in places that I honestly don't belong.
I just don't get the same enjoyment from the other classes. I don't PVP, so I can't speak of balance there - but in PVE all the classes seem pretty much equally surviveable albeit with different strategy.3 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
Trying to make amends?
@Whatzituyah
Amends? For and to what? Everything I say and write I mean. I take nothing back that I have said. Never have, and never will.
@Ch4mpTW
No not that I am not against you at all.Whatzituyah wrote: »Im a nightblade but not disagreeing with you. Infact I prefer to use a templar over a nightblade but the nightblade I have is now my main so what am I gonna do? Just throwing that out there. I like how nightblades are but if I have to abandon my dodge tank than I will.
Just that you got attention of a casual and trying to not make a conflict I think.
@Whatzituyah
Oh okay. All is well then. xD0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedsHisTail
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
I've mained a stam-build Nightblade since beta.
We were terrible back then.
I also rarely PvP, so my Nightblading has little effect on anyone else.
Also, I'm super bad at PvP, so my PvP Nightblading also has little effect on anyone else.
[Edit to remove problematic word]Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 8:43PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My dedicated PvP char is a Stamblade. I made her two years ago at PC launch.
At the time, that was about the worst possible choice for PvP. It got better, then it got worse, then even worser and then it got better and better and better.
Point being, the class balance in this game changes more frequently than my underwear. I learned to live with it.
And i'll adapt to the next nerf, which i know is only a matter of time.
PS: I have 4 VR16 mains, NB/DK/Sorc/Temp and i play all 4 of them.
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭The main problem is ZOS listens to anyone.
Class balance should be an equation that balances.
Nerf this and buff that should be irrelevant for and against any class by anyone.
Because opinion is irrelevant.
Its embarassing that players have to point out obvious defficiencies.
But ZOS appears to tune by committee and feel instead of cold hard math.
They can argue the system has complex interactions, unbalancable and unmanageable.
My answer is KISS.
Try to be too clever and all you do is tie yourself in knots and bamboozle yourself.
As well as make the systems almost impossible to hand over and document.
Edited by Rune_Relic on June 17, 2016 7:32PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭@Ch4mpTW
Infact one time I was ganked by a Nightblade Duelwielding Maces of I guess unresistable damage with sharpen. That was not a fun time for my poor old Mage Character. I also raged for a good 30 minutes because I was dead in seconds.https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »@Ch4mpTW
Infact one time I was ganked by a Nightblade Duelwielding Maces of I guess unresistable damage with sharpen. That was not a fun time for my poor old Mage Character. I also raged for a good 30 minutes because I was dead in seconds.
So would it concern you if I said my main's Swords both have Unresistable Damage enchantments on them?
Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy4 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »The main problem is ZOS listens to anyone.
I could point to half a dozen other threads that claim the problem is exactly the opposite of that."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?4 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedsHisTail
Wait... You're the gentleman who made the "Confessions of a Casual" thread, yes? And explained how you're not sorry for being a casual and all that... But, you main a Nightblade as well...? I mean, there isn't exactly anything wrong with that... It's just... Dude...
@Ch4mpTW
I've mained a stam-build Nightblade since beta.
We were terrible back then.
I also rarely PvP, so my Nightblading has little effect on anyone else.
Also, I'm super bad at PvP, so my PvP Nightblading also has little effect on anyone else.
@ShedsHisTail
Dude, you're not a problem. You're just a player of classes. Just like me and everyone else. I really wouldn't go out of my way and say that specific people are a problem (unless the situation is extreme enough to deem it so), unless they're cheaters/exploiters (but that's a different topic all together). It's the Nightblade class that is a problem, and its effect on ESO overall.
Have you ever heard the saying of, "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" I believe that saying, and blame the devs (as I said in the initial post). Not the players (to a certain degree).
[Edit to remove problematic word]Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:52PM1 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Personally I have one character of each class and I gravitate to the Nightblade simply because I like the play style better. I like the stealthy approach, and get a bit of an adrenaline rush from sneaking around and exploring in places that I honestly don't belong.
I just don't get the same enjoyment from the other classes. I don't PVP, so I can't speak of balance there - but in PVE all the classes seem pretty much equally surviveable albeit with different strategy.
It's basically the same for me. I like stealth gameplay a lot, so a nightblade is a natural choice.
I also stay the hell out of PvP...
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Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Replace Nightblades with people and you got an agree from me. Limited intelligence mixed with anger and displeasure with a side of anonymity is the problem.
[Edit to remove problematic word]Edited by [Deleted User] on June 17, 2016 7:53PM7
