The bane to ESO - Nightblades

Justice31st

Night blades Fear is OP against magicka classes. Not high enough stamina pool.

Ethromelb14_ESO

People will always claim how overpowered something is whenever they can't beat it. I understand that the OP said that they have two NBs of their own, but I don't agree that a NB has more of an advantage over another class. A barely 3 second cloak duration and people still think that's OP?

Is no one aware that there are alchemy potions that offer a way longer duration of cloak/invisibility? Too many people suffer from poor character building. Has it ever occurred to anyone to notice other people's max health? Almost 80% of players have max health bars that range between 10k to 19k. That's crap, and getting sneezed on by a boss will get the PC killed.

Everybody and their grandmother thinks damage is the way to go. So most are going around kamikaze-style trying to blitz everything they fight like it's the answer to survival, and it's not.

The problem is most players don't know how to build amazing characters with classes other than the NB, so your measly 10 to 19k is a joke to a stealth killing NB. There are ways to see a stealth character in the game, become invisible (regardless of the class), and there are other classes capable of massive damage while healing themselves.

Night Blades aren't broken or overpowered ... they're just well-made, and can adapt to the random prerogatives of most people's build choices. And damn near every MMO has a class that offers stealth. It should come to be expected by now for vets of this genre. I've had a NB attempt to stealth kill me with camo-hunter, and follow it up with WB, when they were everybody's corny go-to attempt at feeling powerful, and my character just shrugged it off, and proceeded to annihilate him. His foolish behind went running for his life in to Imperial City.

It's not the class that's OP, when a boss release an AoE, and surrounding players die except you. Many players and their lack of ability to piece together are the problem. That's just my "O".

Justice31st

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

People will always claim how overpowered something is whenever they can't beat it. I understand that the OP said that they have two NBs of their own, but I don't agree that a NB as more of an advantage over another class. A barely 3 second cloak duration and people still think that's OP?

Is every not aware that there are alchemy potions that offer a way longer duration of cloak/invisibility? Too many people suffer from poor character building. Has it ever occurred to anyone to notice other people's max health? Almost 80% of players have max health bars that range between 10k to 19k. That's crap, and getting sneezed on by a boss will get the PC killed.

Everybody and their grandmother thinks damage is the way to go. So most are going around kamikaze-style trying to blitz everything they fight like it's the answer to survival, and it's not.

The problem is most players don't know how to build amazing characters with classes other than the NB, so your measly 10 to 19k is a joke to a stealth killing NB. There are ways to see a stealth character in the game, become invisible (regardless of the class), and there are other classes capable of massive damage while healing themselves.

Night Blades aren't broken or overpowered ... they're just well-made, and can adapt to the random prerogatives of most people's build choices. And damn near every MMO has a class that offers stealth. It should come to be expected by now for vets of this genre. I've had a NB attempt to stealth kill me with camo-hunter, and follow it up with WB, when they were everybody's corny go-to attempt at feeling powerful, and my character just shrugged it off, and proceeded to annihilate him. His foolish behind went running for his life in to Imperial City.

It's not the class that's OP, when a boss release an AoE, and surrounding players die except you. Many players and their lack of ability to piece together are the problem. That's just my "O".

Wouldn't that make them OP, if they are made better than other classes? Doesn't sound like balance to me.

Lysette

Kendaric wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Personally I have one character of each class and I gravitate to the Nightblade simply because I like the play style better. I like the stealthy approach, and get a bit of an adrenaline rush from sneaking around and exploring in places that I honestly don't belong.

I just don't get the same enjoyment from the other classes. I don't PVP, so I can't speak of balance there - but in PVE all the classes seem pretty much equally surviveable albeit with different strategy.

It's basically the same for me. I like stealth gameplay a lot, so a nightblade is a natural choice.

I also stay the hell out of PvP...

I have 7 NB characters, all still low level - and I do not play them because they are strong, but because I like this play style. I do not even use the shadow skill line a lot, but focus on assassination - my characters are bow users, it is my favorite main weapon, not just a support - and I rely on the ability of the NB class, to get away and create distance again to be able to kite. If this would be taken away, what would be left then?- The fun of playing this class as a bow user would be ruined.

thankyourat

My main is a magicka nightblade and it's in a good place. Not too strong and not weak. Also if they make the cost of cloak go up they need to make it not be breakable. But really cloak is fine there are plenty of counters for it already

daemonios

sirrmattus wrote: »

All Nb are good for is dropping veil in raids

You're raiding wrong. Most NBs I know (of the magicka variety) use shooting star for the higher damage/ultimate return. The only place where I see veils heavily used is vSO 3rd boss due to the insane constant damage.

I agree that NBs seem to have a combination of extremely high damage AND utility. Comparing it to a Sorc, which is my main, we have next to 0 group utility and struggle to keep up damage-wise. Yes, a good player in any class will probably outdo an average NB, but all in all, I'd say the game is heavily skewed towards playing NB.

As for solutions, maybe ZOS should bring other classes UP on par with NBs instead of nerfing them? Again I can only speak for Sorcerers since I play one as my main and my knowledge of other classes is limited, and this is only about PvE since I don't PvP.

- Why not give Liquid Lightning some sort of debuff to enemies?
- Why not make Surge a group buff, such as the DK molten weapons skill?
- Speaking of Surge, I can't wrap my head around why you nerfed the heals from it given how much more a magicka NB can heal AND do damage at the same time.
- As an execute, Mage's Wrath is "cute". But it's also buggy as hell (often you seem to have a delay in the explosion), has a weird cast/proc time and only works from 20% down. Compare to NB's Impale with stupid long range (18m), higher damage, more spammable and proccing 300% more damage starting at 25% enemy health.
- We don't have a spammable, cheap class skill for DPS and mostly have to rely on weapon attacks + force pulse weaving. Force pulse is hugely expensive compared to many of other classes' spammable skills.
- Seriously, lose the toggles once and for all. Inner light takes away 2 skill slots. Bound aegis takes away another 2. We're left with 3 skills on each bar. Force pulse, wall of elements, liquid lightning and mage's wrath are all but mandatory. If inner light and bound aegis were turned into long buffs (at least 20 seconds) it would contribute enormously to sorc diversity.
- Pets need to be incinerated and created again from the ground up. There is simply no place for them in end-game PvE as they are now.

RAGUNAnoOne

Nightblades ARE balanced the issue is other classes are not well balanced...

Vanzen

When running in full heavy reactive armor (-35% damage when feared or stuned) and with radiant magelight (-50% damage from stealth) and getting killed w/o having the time to fire a single skill ; I am even willing to agree its a l2p problem if you NB are willing to agree that there is something wrong here with the insane burst combo some can pull.

I dont want to play a NB and sometimes am so angry at them that am about to stop playing pvp definitely.

DDuke

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

khele23eb17_ESO

You say you know NBs but the OP sounds like a rant from someone playing a stam-mag-blade, a non-existant class with the advantages of both stamina and magicka NB without any of their respective drawbacks. Especially on the stamblades' side. Lets talk about their awe-inspiring sustained dps and godlike survivability /s

Armitas

The Rogue (NB) is the Cadillac class, it is in every game because it sells boxes. Mostly I just wish I didn't drive a Prius.

NativeJoe

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I actually came here to read about how NB's were overpowered with a detailed break down of how they have better passives and buffs. However your post was derailed by your zealous hatred of NB's. I will agree that NB's are too strong, yet it is very hard to balance how much utility they have with how weak they can be without the passives. Perhaps you should focus on the specifics of balance and how you propose to fix it other than 1 skill: cloak and how much you think NB's run the forums.

Wobel has said himself He just measures "how often something is talked about" and doesn't actually "Read and take the advice directly and start working on it." so To make up a plan...even using graphs, math, and logic wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

He does have a solid point tho. NB's are favorites. The crafting lead is a NB himself. that is why you get 2 set bonus pieces with duel wield, and you get 1 with a staff nailed to your hand. Burst damage builds are amazing on Nightblades.. but they often lack regen or sustain... hence for the first time in TES history poisons mysteriously gained this "absorb" magick so they can gain resources from attacking, and just finishing off targets.

Nightblades before this patch had to think about how to counter a sorcs shields. Now they just count to 5, use a fear, then burst combo. Zos literally made a artificial hole in Sorc defenses for Nightblades to exploit. And thats not the worst of it for sorcs... They made the duration so short they have to walk around with shields down now... meaning GANK BAIT...considering many nightblade builds now can take down heavy armor tank builds in a 1sec combo. ... sorcs don't stand a chance.

Why do I think sorcs where targeted? because we where the Anti-nightblade class. I mean kill counter doesn't lie. for many patches in a row sorcs have been the only one's that can seriously put an end to a nightblade because we innatly have stealth detect options on our bars, and we couldn't be critted or singled out before because our shields where almost always up. So a burst combo nightblade had little chance of bursting and killing us then escaping into the shadows like they do now.





I'm Not saying nerf nightblades... I think the balance that keeps them viable is to finicky to mess around with at all. Leave it as is. it is a complete and whole class. Work on the rest of us now.

Hawco10

Think the OP probably got wiped by a nightblade at a bad time, hence the wall of text .

Strider_Roshin

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

NativeJoe

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

Wow... You probably don't realize it but there are many 1sec combos a nightblade can do to instantly kill a target in 1 second that is in Heavy impen with 27+k hp right...

lets ignore the fact that people that are pretty much universally agreed to be some of the best players on eso get taken out by nightblades get taken out all the time on their streams. there is no long battle. there just boom dead. Sypher, Fengrush, and many others encounter this on a regular basis. Consider the possibility that it's your reality that is distorted...and that bad nightblades that can only take out bad players and nothing higher up the tiers. All it takes is a decent player that knows how to pull off a sequence of button pushes and has a half way decent build to instantly kill a target. Look at how nightblades... "decent nightblades" take apart other classes for a few minutes...and consistently have every dlc and you might gleam some insight out of it. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean thousands out there arn't able to.

LuciusEsox

You know what ? I rolled a NB because I liked the name when I started the game at release I also became a wood elf for the same reason. There are so so many people out there like me who rolled one for the same reasons. To the op do you honestly think I give a s**t about the views of a self professed "expert" on how imba the NB is. Every type of mmo/online games from WOW to IL2 Sturmovik there has always been people like yourself who love to enlighten us all on how bright and right they are and how slow and no no we are...

In a sort of friendly way,, go boil yer head please mate as the only thing I would really like to see nerfed is your type of post.

Err I suppose I didn't have to read it... lol

DDuke

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

tbh, I have tougher fights against stam sorcs in this patch, they can put up some good pressure with Hurricane & you can never ever let yourself low health due to chance of Implosion.

They have sick PvE DPS now too:

https://youtu.be/22t4idBWh7Q

DDuke

NativeJoe wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

Wow... You probably don't realize it but there are many 1sec combos a nightblade can do to instantly kill a target in 1 second that is in Heavy impen with 27+k hp right...

lets ignore the fact that people that are pretty much universally agreed to be some of the best players on eso get taken out by nightblades get taken out all the time on their streams. there is no long battle. there just boom dead. Sypher, Fengrush, and many others encounter this on a regular basis. Consider the possibility that it's your reality that is distorted...and that bad nightblades that can only take out bad players and nothing higher up the tiers. All it takes is a decent player that knows how to pull off a sequence of button pushes and has a half way decent build to instantly kill a target. Look at how nightblades... "decent nightblades" take apart other classes for a few minutes...and consistently have every dlc and you might gleam some insight out of it. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean thousands out there arn't able to.

Never happened to my templar yet, 33k health & 4 impen.


Oh, and since you brought up some streamers:

https://youtu.be/gXoBw7xtXFk

That NB - so strong right?


And you can do stealth burst with every class, not just NBs.

https://youtu.be/8UIs4TfhSck

---

The only thing NBs are is popular - stealth classes tend to be in MMOs (even when the stealth skill fails to function 90% of time).

Dixa

I find my stam sorc to be tougher than my magicka nightblade.

I don't know where all of this extreme healing magicka nightblades supposedly get while attacking comes from in these claims. they have only two abilities that do it without requiring a mob death.

Nemeliom

Long story short: "I'm the only one who knows the truth. You may have an answer for what I just said, but you are wrong, because I say so. Nightblade are OP".
That's all I read in this post.

Kalante

the bias on NB's in this thread is funny. Yall do realize that stam nb is among the weakest class in pve right?

NativeJoe

DDuke wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

Wow... You probably don't realize it but there are many 1sec combos a nightblade can do to instantly kill a target in 1 second that is in Heavy impen with 27+k hp right...

lets ignore the fact that people that are pretty much universally agreed to be some of the best players on eso get taken out by nightblades get taken out all the time on their streams. there is no long battle. there just boom dead. Sypher, Fengrush, and many others encounter this on a regular basis. Consider the possibility that it's your reality that is distorted...and that bad nightblades that can only take out bad players and nothing higher up the tiers. All it takes is a decent player that knows how to pull off a sequence of button pushes and has a half way decent build to instantly kill a target. Look at how nightblades... "decent nightblades" take apart other classes for a few minutes...and consistently have every dlc and you might gleam some insight out of it. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean thousands out there arn't able to.

Never happened to my templar yet, 33k health & 4 impen.


Oh, and since you brought up some streamers:

https://youtu.be/gXoBw7xtXFk

That NB - so strong right?


And you can do stealth burst with every class, not just NBs.

https://youtu.be/8UIs4TfhSck

---

The only thing NBs are is popular - stealth classes tend to be in MMOs (even when the stealth skill fails to function 90% of time).

Then simply ask for demonstration. Elder trolls online on NA server I know for a fact could do it. Zergbads build is another that could do it. But once again NA. Maybe you euro types over there havn't figured it out yet. Can't say. But over here there are definitely some hard cores that could take you apart.

Turelus

Nightblades are the Bane of ESO.
I'm a Nightblade.
I'm the Bane of ESO.
.....
I am Darth Bane.

I knew using that avatar everywhere would pay off.

DDuke

NativeJoe wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade is currently the weakest class for PvE DPS.

In PvP, we're plagued by bugs (particularly with cloak). The last time NB was good there was patch 1.6, when cloak still worked.

The only thing you've got more than other classes is burst damage from stealth, and that's not going to help you vs tankier players & zergs that delete your squishy character in 0,5 seconds.


If you're getting killed by NBs, get more impen - get more health. Problem solved.

I'm yet to be killed once by a Nightblade in 1v1 with my magicka templar and the stamina ones are by far the easiest class to kill. They're practically free AP.


Getting really tired of these QQ threads that have no basis on reality.

Agreed, the only thing a stamina Nightblade does well in PvP is killing bad players. Against anyone competent, and stamina Nightblades are next to stam sorcs in the food chain.

Wow... You probably don't realize it but there are many 1sec combos a nightblade can do to instantly kill a target in 1 second that is in Heavy impen with 27+k hp right...

lets ignore the fact that people that are pretty much universally agreed to be some of the best players on eso get taken out by nightblades get taken out all the time on their streams. there is no long battle. there just boom dead. Sypher, Fengrush, and many others encounter this on a regular basis. Consider the possibility that it's your reality that is distorted...and that bad nightblades that can only take out bad players and nothing higher up the tiers. All it takes is a decent player that knows how to pull off a sequence of button pushes and has a half way decent build to instantly kill a target. Look at how nightblades... "decent nightblades" take apart other classes for a few minutes...and consistently have every dlc and you might gleam some insight out of it. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean thousands out there arn't able to.

Never happened to my templar yet, 33k health & 4 impen.


Oh, and since you brought up some streamers:

https://youtu.be/gXoBw7xtXFk

That NB - so strong right?


And you can do stealth burst with every class, not just NBs.

https://youtu.be/8UIs4TfhSck

---

The only thing NBs are is popular - stealth classes tend to be in MMOs (even when the stealth skill fails to function 90% of time).

Then simply ask for demonstration. Elder trolls online on NA server I know for a fact could do it. Zergbads build is another that could do it. But once again NA. Maybe you euro types over there havn't figured it out yet. Can't say. But over here there are definitely some hard cores that could take you apart.

Bwahah, keep dreaming

...and meanwhile, go get more health & impen so we get rid of your NB QQ.

makreth

@NativeJoe dude....how could you do that...?

How did you post that screenshot with the pink dress.....have you no shame??????


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NativeJoe

makreth wrote: »

@NativeJoe dude....how could you do that...?

How did you post that screenshot with the pink dress.....have you no shame??????


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shame
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shame
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Have you not participated in any mmo since the begining of time? They always stick us in dresses, skin tight pants, or ruffly bang me hard from the back wear. It's a running joke for me. plus nothing says try to kill me like a pink dress, and nothing is more shame ridden then getting beat ruthlessly to death by a man in a pink dress sporting a beer belly.

ButtersEP

Nightbladed are so OP lol, I have a magic and Stam blade myself lol

Francescolg

My dear @Ch4mpTW,
cudos to you for this fantastic thread. I haven't read any answer, as I know what to expect...

Thank you so much for your well thought words, everything you say is true. Since the days, where I was hit by 25k+ Bowblades in fall 2014! EVERYTHING, I mean every single word in your thread, is the plain and simple reality in ESO PvP.

I can say so! I started this game on my templar and very soon noticed how buggy and clumsy his skills felt, either channeled or casted. Everytime I met a skilled player, he would interrupt me in the right moments, leaving me no real chance. Be it unkillable, many-times teleporting sorcerers, or perma-vanishing knightblades, I wondered how a game development team could bring an MMO in such a favored state of DPS classes. (I remember the fire sorc in Warhammer online: 100% crit chance, 300% crit damage buff [with an iny-whiny self-hurting component] THAT is my definition of an OP-class let in this state for too long!)

Even the overall 50%-damage nurf in PvP further promoted high-DPS classes spec's, by making them even stronger!! (it was no help). And many new inserted armors/skills/passives made this situation even worse, there are so many sets, sooo many items, which favor stamina spec's (even up today).

The day I started my first nightblade, felt like taking a seat in a formula 1 car. That was my impression in PvP, till today.

Thanks for your well written text! You are the

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realist of the ESO community!

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Or like this guy:

ArcVelarian

The fundamental problem is that they have far too much survivability for how much burst they have. Nerf that survivability significantly and nerf the damage slightly.

Jaronking

ArcVelarian wrote: »

The fundamental problem is that they have far too much survivability for how much burst they have. Nerf that survivability significantly and nerf the damage slightly.

TF what survivability do we have dark cloak?That the most broken ability in the game with the most counters in the game.What survivability do we have that no other class also have access to?I'll answer that for you none.