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One Tamriel - Why is it both Exciting and Scary?
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mike_de✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »Honestly, I'll still play through each zone in order so I don't miss any dialogue etc. other people can miss out on the dialogue and such. for all I care. How others play won't affect me at all.
That's quite short sighted, to be honest.
Yeah, I've played the entire game already, I've seen all the stories already, yet why do I care? Why do I worry about how will others experience the game if it won't affect me at all?
[snip]
They are doing this to get new players on board. And give them a better start, being able to group with veteran players, rather than being the usual bunch of single players, trying another elder scrolls game.
They don't get me with this, because I don't like PUGs one bit, but they are at least trying to involve more gamers into playing in a party in this one and only single player MMO I know of.
And they try to improve guild group play with this, eliminating the need of being in the same alliance, giving guilds more weight than alliances, as it should be.
What I fear, that they mess with the story lines.
I think, the up/down leveling of the players should only apply, if the player agrees to it:
1. Entering a zone.
2. Playing with a party.
3. Entering an event.
4. In group dungeons.
5. In PvP
With that we can be sure, both groups are satisfied. The single players, who seek a challenge/follow the story and the group/party player, who seek companions or PvP challenges.
If you level scale the chars automatic you will loose all the players who are in for a challenge. This game is already far too easy, as it is. So entering zones with enemies above your level is the only challenge what is left.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 5, 2025 1:27PM0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭@mike_de
you wrote: Because they are doing this to get new players on board, you genius. And give them a better start, being able to group with veteran players, rather than being the usual bunch of single players, trying another elder scrolls game.
This would require changes to quest-phasing on top of the announced changes. However there is no comment on such changes. It was mentioned by KaiSchrober that the planned changes rather focus' on the problem of outleveling content while progressing through quests. So, for a player it doesn't matter which quests/zones/regions they currently play in - all content will be their level, bc of scaling. This does not mean a veteran can play through a questline a second time ... it doesn't even mean a veteran and a newbie will be able to see or interact with each other if they happen to be in the same spot at the same time as both might differ in the overall progression of the current questline.
Imho, the ability to pick up and drop quests at any point of the narrative might even make it harder for people to quest together, as quest phasing requires all groupmembers to be at the exact same step of the questline in order to play together. Without a continous narrative there are many more ways to differ in quest progression.
As for dungeons/events/ancors ... the only thing the announced changes will change is that you will not be able to outlevel content in order to come back and complete it when you are stronger. The nice advice of: "Fleeing is a perfectly valid tactic ..." will no longer apply.Edited by Elsterchen on June 15, 2016 10:12AM0 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone would think they're completely changing the game with all this 'the sky is falling' talk that goes on on the forums.
I think we need to give some credit to other players. It's extremely obvious when you move from one alliance area to another, and I'm sure ZoS will put in addition clarifications to make it even more obvious when the change comes.
Players can think for themselves and figure things out. We're not a dumb bunch, contrary to what one might think after perusing the forums for a while. Goodness, with all the talk you'd think we were.
Finally, I think a lot of us are missing one very important point: The players that care about story progression and similar, will do things in order because that's what they enjoy. They know to let the story line guide them around the game. Because that's how games have worked for the last 20 years. On the other hand those that don't care about the story-line are more likely to chop and change, but won't matter if things are confusing to them, because they're likely not even reading or listening to the dialogue in the first place.
One Tamriel will give us options. But it's not changing the way we game, if we enjoy the way things are now.If you can be anything, be kind.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.Edited by Lysette on June 15, 2016 10:31AM1 -
mike_de✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.
Correct. This is the way all existing Elder scrolls games since arena are meant to be played. It's your story, every time. You decide where to go, and what do do, solving quest left and right, where you go, delve into dungeons at your pace and leisure.
That's the reason I think, they have to alter all quests in the way, it fits to that concept. They need a general overhaul for all quests, because they have to check first, if the player is member of the alliance, or not, changing the quests complete for the later. Or they have to alter all quests, fitting into an more neutral, less alliance point of view, trashing the alliance PvP crap in the quest descriptions that way.
You, as player, have to make very clear in the quests, that you are working for the greater good, ignoring alliance crap, and that your position is to stabilize the regions, rather than working for any alliance in general. That are the quest changes, that are really being needed for a "One Tamriel" approach. I don't think they are able to pull that off.Edited by mike_de on June 15, 2016 10:45AM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Rev Rielle wrote: »Anyone would think they're completely changing the game with all this 'the sky is falling' talk that goes on on the forums.
I think we need to give some credit to other players. It's extremely obvious when you move from one alliance area to another, and I'm sure ZoS will put in addition clarifications to make it even more obvious when the change comes.
Players can think for themselves and figure things out. We're not a dumb bunch, contrary to what one might think after perusing the forums for a while. Goodness, with all the talk you'd think we were.
Finally, I think a lot of us are missing one very important point: The players that care about story progression and similar, will do things in order because that's what they enjoy. They know to let the story line guide them around the game. Because that's how games have worked for the last 20 years. On the other hand those that don't care about the story-line are more likely to chop and change, but won't matter if things are confusing to them, because they're likely not even reading or listening to the dialogue in the first place.
One Tamriel will give us options. But it's not changing the way we game, if we enjoy the way things are now.
Exactly, I do both actually, sometimes I follow a story content, if I am interested into it - another time I might just leave it alone and let others solve their problems, it is not my problem, but their's, so let's them solve it on their own. I am not willing to do every quest nor do every storyline - with One Tamriel I do not even have to do the main quest, what is fine, I am not interested into fighting Molag Bal and his hordes - at least not when I have to - I do not like "have to" in the first place, I do if I want to do it, and leave it alone, if I don't. One Tamriel will allow to choose more freely and this is a good move from ZOS.Edited by Lysette on June 15, 2016 10:46AM0 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭.DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.
Correct. This is the way all existing Elder scrolls games since arena are meant to be played. It's your story, every time. You decide where to go, and what do do, solving quest left and right, where you go, delve into dungeons at your pace and leisure.
That's the reason I think, they have to alter all quests in the way, it fits to that concept. They need a general overhaul for all quests, because they have to check first, if the player is member of the alliance, or not, changing the quests complete for the later. Or they have to alter all quests, fitting into an more neutral, less alliance point of view, trashing the alliance PvP crap in the quest descriptions that way.
This is never going to happen. That is just far far too much work for very little gain.
I think some players have misunderstood just what One Tamriel will and won't provide.If you can be anything, be kind.1 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've just realised one thing that, as a completionist, makes me very happy - I will finally have plenty of appropriately leveled kwama etc. that my EP character can fight for the trophy achievements - had kind of resigned myself to the thought that I would probably never get that achievement on my EP main because I didn't get the tropies at low level, now it looks possible
Edited by Epona222 on June 15, 2016 10:46AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.
Correct. This is the way all existing Elder scrolls games since arena are meant to be played. It's your story, every time. You decide where to go, and what do do, solving quest left and right, where you go, delve into dungeons at your pace and leisure.
That's the reason I think, they have to alter all quests in the way, it fits to that concept. They need a general overhaul for all quests, because they have to check first, if the player is member of the alliance, or not, changing the quests complete for the later. Or they have to alter all quests, fitting into an more neutral, less alliance point of view, trashing the alliance PvP crap in the quest descriptions that way.
You, as player, have to make very clear in the quests, that you are working for the greater good, ignoring alliance crap, and that your position is to stabilize the regions, rather than working for any alliance in general. That are the quest changes, that are really being needed for a "One Tamriel" approach. I don't think they are able to pull that off.
yes, that is basically my approach - i listen to what quest NPCs want from me and what help they need, and if I deem this worthy, I will try my best to help them. But if I think, they can do that perfectly on their own and are just abusing me to run their errands, then I won't help them. I am not their servant and if they do not have something interesting to do for me, then I just let go on this and do something else instead.Edited by Lysette on June 15, 2016 10:50AM0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.
Correct. This is the way all existing Elder scrolls games since arena are meant to be played. It's your story, every time. You decide where to go, and what do do, solving quest left and right, where you go, delve into dungeons at your pace and leisure.
That's the reason I think, they have to alter all quests in the way, it fits to that concept. They need a general overhaul for all quests, because they have to check first, if the player is member of the alliance, or not, changing the quests complete for the later. Or they have to alter all quests, fitting into an more neutral, less alliance point of view, trashing the alliance PvP crap in the quest descriptions that way.
So, i see you have played the games once only
In the elder scrolls PC games there is phasing i.e. some quests can only be accessed after completing a certain other quest, talk to an NPC etc. This way not only a continious narrative is ensured, but adding to it the environment (i.e. the way NPCs react to your presence!) is altered. In the elder scrolls games the choices you make impact the game experience much stronger then in TESO. This is possible bc there is only one person playing the game in a certain role at one time.
you don't believe me?
Just one simple example:
Just make a new char in skyrim and leave the location before your first encounter with alduin ... (PS do not enter villages or towns as the game will likely bug out, but just stroll around and talk to wandering NPCs... you WILL notice a difference. PPS: try climbing the stones at the gate to leave the location... ).
There are many many more examples that make the PC games an RP experience that is different each time you play it with a different role/race/character ... and no its not bc of glitches or exploits: Its because in the PC games the narrative is build differently to the way it is build in TESO.
Basically these games are build quite comparable to pen-and-paper RPGs ... a network of interconnected (quest-)nodes with progressing access to specific connections via phasing/ choices. TESO isn't build this way, the narrative is linearly progressing with distinct access to nodes as well as distinct phasing (this is the only way to ensure any group quest activity - however limited it might seem).
As already said in the opening post... the ONLY way to make this work and be good would include a complete reworking of the narrative - changing a linear narrative to a network type narrative. In return this would mean phasing/ choices become more important in shaping experienced progress. This might be good, if done correctly, however you might just forget about questing with friends ... because the two of you are at different phases, even if they just choose to answer differently from you in one single dialog.
Edited by Elsterchen on June 15, 2016 11:16AM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »DaniAngione wrote: »We are going to get the worst case scenario. They don't do anything worth that much effort unless they can put their hand out and pout and say "MONEY PWEASE!"
Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...
But I can't believe it, lol... I mean... How can their writers and such agree with this? They really love their stories and characters, we know they do, we've seen they talk about that several times before... Are they really ok with such butchering?
I suppose that lore-wise they can justify the big mess it will become with "Well, that was a hell of a dragon break!" lol.
In what is it different from doing quests in Skyrim out of order or stumble into something, what is meant to be a quest area and you have no idea what is going on there and do the content nevertheless - did this bother you in Skyrim?- I mean, I am not an actor who plays a given role following a narrative, but I write my own story in the game and this means sometimes, that I stumble into things, which I am no supposed to, seen from the storyline - or I avoid doing things, which are supposed to happen, but they won't, because I am not doing them. The game nevertheless continues, and it is then a patchwork of story-pieces, which might or might not form a somewhat complete picture in the end - and if they don't, why bother, it was then just not part of my personal story. But I had the freedom to write my own story and do what I wanted to do in those moments, I find this more important than to follow a narrative.
Correct. This is the way all existing Elder scrolls games since arena are meant to be played. It's your story, every time. You decide where to go, and what do do, solving quest left and right, where you go, delve into dungeons at your pace and leisure.
That's the reason I think, they have to alter all quests in the way, it fits to that concept. They need a general overhaul for all quests, because they have to check first, if the player is member of the alliance, or not, changing the quests complete for the later. Or they have to alter all quests, fitting into an more neutral, less alliance point of view, trashing the alliance PvP crap in the quest descriptions that way.
So, i see you have played the games once only
In the elder scrolls PC games there is phasing i.e. some quests can only be accessed after completing a certain other quest, talk to an NPC etc. This way a continious narrative is ensured.
you don't believe me?
Just make a new char in skyrim and leave the location before your first encounter with alduin ... (PS do not enter villages or towns as the game will bug out, but just stroll around and talk to wandering NPCs... you WILL notice a difference).
Basically these games are build quite comparable to pen-and-paper RPGs ... a network of interconnected quest-nodes with progressing access to specific connections via phasing. TESO isn't build this way, the narrative is linearly progressing with distinct phasing. As already said in the opening post... the ONLY way to make this work and be good would include a complete reworking of the narrative - changing a linear narrative to a network type narrative.
Yes, Skyrim and Oblivion used quests with a staging system - if you do not have the quest, you wont get it, until another quest or you entering a certain location is triggering it and the quest is set to stage 1 - fulfilling certain requirements will trigger other stages of those quests until they will be completed or until they are deemed failed. One of those examples is, if you do not complete Bleakfalls Barrow, you will never see another dragon again after leaving Helgen. And if you use alternative start mods and you never go to Helgen, NPCs will not even know about dragons in the game.
Edit: but this is similar in ESO - I did a few of the quests on the starter island in the wrong order and basically solved the problem, before I was even aware of it - and had to do the initial part after the problem was already solved - and when I spoke to Razum Dar, he knew about that I had done this already and did not do his dialogue for the 2nd part, but recognized that it is all solved already and just gave me my reward.Edited by Lysette on June 15, 2016 11:08AM1 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Lysette Sorry for jumping into conclusions!
As the title says... the same feature is exiting and scary at the same time:
Exiting bc of the possibilities and experiences me, you and many others made with the PC games of elder scrolls.
and
Scared bc of the experience, and the feeling of dissatisfaction me, you and many others made with TESO when flaws in the current narrative became obvious, like in you example of the starter islands.
I do not like the thought of newbies having to go through a number of these experiences just because they can.
I fear this will impact their experience in such a (uneccesary) bad way that those interested in story, questing ... RP will be turned off and leave.
I feel this could impact my experience as a veteran (who will know how to avoid bad narrative) because, after all, my experience in TESO is affected by other players... and if those like me (that like to play a story) are put off from playing TESO - who will be left?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »@Lysette Sorry for jumping into conclusions!
As the title says... the same feature is exiting and scary at the same time:
Exiting bc of the possibilities and experiences me, you and many others made with the PC games of elder scrolls.
and
Scared bc of the experience, and the feeling of dissatisfaction me, you and many others made with TESO when flaws in the current narrative became obvious, like in you example of the starter islands.
I do not like the thought of newbies having to go through a number of these experiences just because they can.
I fear this will impact their experience in such a (uneccesary) bad way that those interested in story, questing ... RP will be turned off and leave.
I feel this could impact my experience as a veteran (who will know how to avoid bad narrative) because, after all, my experience in TESO is affected by other players... and if those like me (that like to play a story) are put off from playing TESO - who will be left?
I wasn't bothered by it at all - that is just the way in which I play, I explore and if I find something interesting I might go further and in wake of my exploration I might accidently finish quest objectives, where I did not start the quest to it yet. Sometimes those count, sometimes they don't and I have to do it again after I have acquired the quest from an NPC. I do not use skyshard add-on, so I have an interest to look around and search for locations, where maybe there might be a skyshard to obtain - and so I am quite likely to stumble into quest content without to actually have the quest for it. Or I hear the buzzing sound of a thief trove and then I search for it and might get into something while doing this. Exploration is to me more important than doing quests - I more or less do them by accident.Edited by Lysette on June 15, 2016 11:50AM0 -
Annalyse✭✭✭✭✭I share these concerns. The only positive thing I really see in it is the possibility of being able to properly explore and quest in Craglorn on my own (if they do properly scale it), but for the rest of it I can only imagine it will not be done well and be disappointing to people who truly pay attention to quest lines and stories.
I will also be very, very sad to lose the peaceful Silver and Gold versions of Rawl'kha and Mournhold, which is the only way I will currently visit those two cities. The normal versions are so overrun by people spamming skills and being obnoxious in chat.1 -
Night_Wolf2112✭✭✭✭I don't really like 'One Tamriel' from an immersive point. I don't 'secifically' role play, but my idea of my characters background was an Argonian slave who escaped slavery from the Dunmer and now runs as a healer/monk for the Aldmeri Dominion on a quest to free more Argonians from captivity.
Now... 'One Tamriel' will have lizards running around everywhere!0 -
heystreethawk✭✭✭✭✭It's scary because you can level to 50 with what I call "Ghost Mod", jumping from zone to zone and only doing the quests which have ghosts in them. Too many ghosts = too spooky, and only Nords get a boost to their Spook Resistance.GM of Fantasia
I heard those symphonies come quick1 -
Ravinsild✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »@DaniAngione
Thank you for this thread, it sums my exitement as well as my fears nicely.
As for your possible scenarios: Right now I finally go through cadwells gold ... and there are alot of awkward NPC encounters that totally neglect that i did meet them before, killed molag already and the planemelt has been stoped already.
Sure, cadwells silver and gold are the storylines "as they could have been" ... yet, it just doesn't feel "right" and for me it currently is a reason to loose interest in progressing by questing. The loss of immersion by bending the narrative is real and annoying, I really do not want to know how it feels when the story is broken up all together.
They have almost no narrative continuity. I don't know how many times as a vampire I've met other NPC vampires OR vampire hunters (same for WW) and they just act like I'm a normal person. *** I'm stage 4 I look like veiny paper with crazy eyes. Notice me!0 -
DaniAngione✭✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »Honestly, I'll still play through each zone in order so I don't miss any dialogue etc. other people can miss out on the dialogue and such. for all I care. How others play won't affect me at all.
That's quite short sighted, to be honest.
Yeah, I've played the entire game already, I've seen all the stories already, yet why do I care? Why do I worry about how will others experience the game if it won't affect me at all?
They don't care about you, they have your money already.
They are doing this to get new players on board. And give them a better start, being able to group with veteran players, rather than being the usual bunch of single players, trying another elder scrolls game.
Lol, that part you quoted from my post was an ironic reaction to Silverado's post when he said "How others play won't affect me at all." I know very well the reason they're doing this. :PWhat I fear, that they mess with the story lines.
And funny enough, you say that afterwards
this is exactly what I'm saying in the OP, lol So I guess that you agree with me even though perhaps you might not have read my other comments properly 
all's fine, no worries.
As for the rest of the discussion... Hmmmm, I see very interesting points there! Thanks people for keeping it up, hopefully we'll get a proper response from ZOS if this thread draws enough attention
But I suppose there's something I should make clear about my OP writings - something that I thought I had made it clear already but apparently I wasn't.
Yes, I know that One Tamriel is exactly the kind of freedom that's present in the other TES games! And I love that - I did say that in the OP, that it's exciting because of that.
And believe me, I'm here since beta begging for a more open, free, even sandbox-y game. They didn't follow that road back then, though... and we have to be realistic about that.
What I'm saying is: we can't simply ignore the game's design that's already there for years. We can't simply make naive comparison with how is questing done in Skyrim and Oblivion and such. These are single-player games, it's a completely different thing from an online game - both in technology, technical possibilities AND narrative/structure.
The whole progression, quests and storylines in ESO were created with a more linear, non-open structure. It's like the base, the foundation of the game's storytelling. Now if we simply change the structure without changing what's inside the structure, it won't magically become a perfect TES game. It will become an open-world TES game with tons of plot holes, stupid, non-sensical dialogue, people treating you like a friend and then forgeting you, etc.... things like that.
For the people saying "what's the difference from doing quests in Skyrim?" in Skyrim, each place had a story of its own, that closed itself and you could easily do them in any order. Sometimes, a dialogue or something would show some sort of connection, but other than the main storylines (the main quest, the war quests, the guilds and such...) every quest was independant from each other. When not, completing the one before was necessary.
In ESO, although many regions and quests work well by themselves, yes, there's a lot of regional quests that connect with the overall progress of the main story or the faction story. This was made like this because - like I said - ESO was BUILT FROM THE GROUND with a LINEAR PROGRESSION in mind. And this is what will be messed up when One Tamriel hits if nothing is changed or adapted.
Comparing the two games is a bit naive, yes. Sorry but it is true. Any person with the minimal notions of game design, storytelling or narrative creation (things I work with) can clearly see that changing the game's STRUCTURE without changing its CONTENT won't magically turn it into an actual, free open-world. Will turn it into a mess - unless you do everything in the "old order". New players won't know the "old order", though.
Just as a final analogy, think of ESO as the process of baking a cake.
There are two types of cake pans: circular cake pans and square cake pans. Circular means open world, square means linear, and the cake pans themselves are the "game structure".
Now, the cake dough is the "game content". When you spread the dough in the cake pan, it will take the form of the cake pan - so the game CONTENT will be adapted for the game STRUCTURE.
One Tamriel is, basically, trying to change the cake from a square cake pan to a circular cake pan after TWO YEARS OF BAKING.
The only two ways for it to fit properly are:
Making a new dough for the new cake pan (rewriting content - too dificult, I doubt ZOS will do that)
Cutting the edges of the cake so it fits in a circle (cutting/butchering content)
For example: High Kin-Lady Estre dies in Auridon. This fact is mentioned across all Dominion regions. If I go to Greenshade directly, quests will mention Estre's betrayal and death before I even meet her. Solution: cut Estre from important dialogues outside Auridon. So, yeah - the game is butchered.
This is my concern - I hope this explains it better now
Just as a conclusion, I'll repeat myself: I'd LOVE a free Tamriel, one where everyone can freely go and quest whenever they wish. I know this is One Tamriel's promise and I know that this is how the game should've been from day one. Believe me, like I said, I'm here since beta begging for this kind of TES experience/freedom. But that didn't happen - and we can't deny that.
One Tamriel is the cheap solution, not the TES Online game many dreamed of. We can't simply accept the "butchering" of all the storylines and sensical narratives and plots for the sake of something that's one of the pillars of the TES series - because good storytelling is also one of the pillars of the series. I'm not saying I'm against One Tamriel - I'm just saying that we should raise our voices to ask MORE than just One Tamriel - a PROPER and FUNCTIONAL rework of all the 15 faction zones to ADAPT them for One Tamriel. That's all I'm hoping for
Love you all \o/
Thanks for the read
Edited by DaniAngione on June 15, 2016 7:44PM6 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »Honestly, I'll still play through each zone in order so I don't miss any dialogue etc. other people can miss out on the dialogue and such. for all I care. How others play won't affect me at all.
That's quite short sighted, to be honest.
Yeah, I've played the entire game already, I've seen all the stories already, yet why do I care? Why do I worry about how will others experience the game if it won't affect me at all?
Because I like the game and I want it to grow and to keep playing for as long as more engaging content is delivered. However, one of the things that are most praised about ESO everywhere - even when it was launched full of bugs and problems - it's the storytelling, the narrative, the characters, the quests with more story and purpose to them other than "kill 10 wolves".
One Tamriel puts this high quality characteristic of the game at risk. Which could turn away a lot of potential new players that start to get lost (because they don't know the right order to do things like we do) and things like that. Turning away people and such could lead to an earlier downfall to the game, not to mention the problems of dimming communities (lack of groups, dead trade, etc...)
So, yeah, I do care about how others play and experience the game because as a member of a community it is our role to help Zenimax see things that perhaps they can't from their angle - and ensure a better experience for everyone, new and old players alike.
Of course, as stated more than once, this whole thread is just my opinion on the matter. But I still think that it's important to shed light on it, even if it turns out I'm wrong. I won't mind being wrong (I'll be glad, actually). I just want the best for the game.
It's ok if Silverado doesnt care about what others do or say,or how they play.It isnt their responsibility.
I can understand their point though,as much as I can understand yours.
I too want to see the game grow.And it's always good to see a positive thread,..whenever there is one.
But,it is ok if someone comments that their game play wont change,or be effected by how others play. I too am like that.
I do my thing,quest,and never think about what someone else is doing.Its going to be that way no matter how ZOS impliments changes.
(always add the smiley so no one gets riled up)0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »
[snip]
Just kidding too!
I call that my "safety smiley".
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 5, 2025 1:28PM1 -
Saltypretzels✭✭✭✭This is a good post. I really really really hope that they don't screw the narrative and make it completely illogical for new players.
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Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭It's scary because 3 factions are a very rare but important key feature in an MMO.
Technically the changes don't hit Cyrodiil but the reality is that we already have a problem with Cross faction hoppers
because of the architecure including guild support and it kills Cyrodiil on a long run.
The secret in very rare 3 faction games like DAOC and ESO is that there is a lot more motivation for any kind of mission objectives and one of the key factors is faction pride.
When you compare Imperial City with Darkness Falls it was more thrill to farm seals instead tel var stones for a reason.
When you compare Cyrodiil with old frontiers it was more thrill to organize a relic raid instead getting scrolls multiple times the day for a reason.
Of course many players don't know how that feels because they never made the experience.
But with Matt's background and experience from DAOC he should have know it better how to make 3 faction games special.0 -
TBONE_OG✭✭✭Has it been truly confirmed that EP, AD, and DC will all be able to chill in one town together? Because if that's true... screw that idea. It further dilutes the idea of faction loyalty, and makes the decision on choosing a faction completely pointless. Do they not know how much crap talking will go down?
I have no problem with people playing with their friends on other factions. That's fine... if they are grouped up. Maybe it needs to be who ever the host is, that's the faction they must quest in, etc.
ie: You're EP, but your buddy is DC. You start a group, your buddy becomes temporary EP.
The main towns in this game are already major lag crap fests, load screens at every turn. Why make it worse?2 -
PrinceBoru✭✭✭✭I have no faith whatsoever ZOS will make this work.
Just another game breaking change.It ain't easy being green.0 -
RizaHawkeye✭✭✭✭@DaniAngione:
Thanks for writing this up. This is the most logical post on the forum on this topic.
I feel like a lot of people are: "Oh wow, this is AWESOME!!" But they haven't thought through the details like you have. Zenimax should definitely read this.
Yeah, this should have been done from Day 1. Trying to do it now is almost guaranteed to wreck things.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
The heroes during times of war, are nothing but mass murderers during times of peace.
Riza Hawkeye
Learn to play, or resign to become one of pieces that is meant to be sacrificed.
Meridia2 -
e1team✭✭✭I believe in ZOS. After all it's not some crappy Korean mmo where you can literally stumble into same character you just killed for some quest, alive and well.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't say I have the enthusiasm for this that some people do, mainly because I can't see quite how it will affect me. I have characters that have done Cadwell's, I have traversed all of the available zones, and I have no desire (at the moment) to start a new character.
I appear to have a different mentality to some people here. I like to explore and I do the typical ES game play of going off exploring, picking up quests and doing them when I want to. Throw in some farming, some crafting and levelling up skills. I can do all that moving linearly through the zones. I arrive at a zone, explore it, do quests when I feel like it, move on to the next zone when I feel like it. If I'm in Stonefalls then why not explore Stonefalls, and do the quests there? I see no reason to hop over to explore Auridon. The main quest lines tell a story, why start a new story before you finish the one you're on?
I also don't understand why some people rush to Wrothgar before completing their own faction zones. It's a good story line, and Wrothgar looks nice, but really it's just Eastmarch with orcs
But that's just me. I don't play that way, or even understand why people do, but it's not for me to tell them how to play.
Though I would advise completing the game properly once before gaily skipping about Tamriel
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Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Awesome post.
I don't think there will be much issues you present here.
The game works in a way that it "tracks" your progress and quests you have completed. NPCs will only recognize you as a savior after you have done the corresponding quest.
Storyline quests are obviously chained. Meaning you cannot simply jump from Auridon to Reaper's March, and there is Razum Dar just waiting to hand you a quest. No, the quest givers for Alliance storylines won't spawn and/or give you quests until you have completed the previous ones.
That said, I'm not saying the implementation won't go without issues.
But I believe that once identified, any "progress" problems can be easily dealt with.0
This discussion has been closed.