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In PVP NB & DK are using NPCs to scale keep walls
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »
I said nothing of the sort, I was merely acknowledging that there are grey areas and it would make no sense to ban someone on first offence because it could have been an actual mistake.
I'm sorry what? Are you sayings its okay to "cheat" once as long as you say sorry it was a mistake - that makes no sense
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I'm not inventing the wheel here. Lots of game developers regularly disclose known bugs and announce that exploiting them will have consequences. ZOS on the other hand adopts a "sweep it under the rug" strategy to dealing with these things.What about those new players who come to the game and are doing this and have no idea it is an "exploit" or if its just actually a bug.
Rationalisation doesn't make you right. Abusing bugs for an advantage is cheating, just as much as altering the game data. Software will always have bugs, it doesn't make it OK to abuse them. But it's up to ZOS to enforce some sort of strategy in this regard and as I said above right now they prefer to sweep things under the rug.You need to change what you think cheating is and what is a bug. You're out of your mind if you think ZOS are going to issue out bans because of a bug. This is 100% their fault.
Bugs are company based that affect everyone in an uncontrolled way, intentional or not.
Exploits are used to gain an advantage against someone, by exploiting a game mechanic - this doesn't always mean cheating.
Hacking is used to change data in the game.
Quite the contrary. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more in line to what your saying. Not cheating. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loophole, loopholes are an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
You're really hoping someone will take the bait on this comment . That's twice you've posted it . You should keep in mind your the one taking the risk that ZOS won't punish these "loopholes" you're describing . If this was 2014 or 2015 , I'd probably agree these broken mechanics will go unnoticed as intentional exploits .
ZOS today has their back to the wall with the CE problem . If you get a temp ban for any of these , I wouldn't use this as your pre written appeal ... 0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Nah, ban everyone for using animation cancelling. It gives an unfair advantage to those who can't do it, it's a bug and zos need to take action for bugs and exploits and ban everyone doing them or make a statement.KramUzibra wrote: »
I said nothing of the sort, I was merely acknowledging that there are grey areas and it would make no sense to ban someone on first offence because it could have been an actual mistake.
I'm sorry what? Are you sayings its okay to "cheat" once as long as you say sorry it was a mistake - that makes no sense
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I'm not inventing the wheel here. Lots of game developers regularly disclose known bugs and announce that exploiting them will have consequences. ZOS on the other hand adopts a "sweep it under the rug" strategy to dealing with these things.What about those new players who come to the game and are doing this and have no idea it is an "exploit" or if its just actually a bug.
Rationalisation doesn't make you right. Abusing bugs for an advantage is cheating, just as much as altering the game data. Software will always have bugs, it doesn't make it OK to abuse them. But it's up to ZOS to enforce some sort of strategy in this regard and as I said above right now they prefer to sweep things under the rug.You need to change what you think cheating is and what is a bug. You're out of your mind if you think ZOS are going to issue out bans because of a bug. This is 100% their fault.
Bugs are company based that affect everyone in an uncontrolled way, intentional or not.
Exploits are used to gain an advantage against someone, by exploiting a game mechanic - this doesn't always mean cheating.
Hacking is used to change data in the game.
Quite the contrary. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more in line to what your saying. Not cheating. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loophole, loopholes are an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
Yes, the game was recently hacked but a lot of people just have their witch hunt mentality in full force now.#MOREORBS1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'd hope they don't ban for this, at least give out a warning but if they gave out a temp ban for a core mechanic in their system, that is complete ridiculousness.Roehamad_Ali wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »
I said nothing of the sort, I was merely acknowledging that there are grey areas and it would make no sense to ban someone on first offence because it could have been an actual mistake.
I'm sorry what? Are you sayings its okay to "cheat" once as long as you say sorry it was a mistake - that makes no sense
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I'm not inventing the wheel here. Lots of game developers regularly disclose known bugs and announce that exploiting them will have consequences. ZOS on the other hand adopts a "sweep it under the rug" strategy to dealing with these things.What about those new players who come to the game and are doing this and have no idea it is an "exploit" or if its just actually a bug.
Rationalisation doesn't make you right. Abusing bugs for an advantage is cheating, just as much as altering the game data. Software will always have bugs, it doesn't make it OK to abuse them. But it's up to ZOS to enforce some sort of strategy in this regard and as I said above right now they prefer to sweep things under the rug.You need to change what you think cheating is and what is a bug. You're out of your mind if you think ZOS are going to issue out bans because of a bug. This is 100% their fault.
Bugs are company based that affect everyone in an uncontrolled way, intentional or not.
Exploits are used to gain an advantage against someone, by exploiting a game mechanic - this doesn't always mean cheating.
Hacking is used to change data in the game.
Quite the contrary. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more in line to what your saying. Not cheating. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loophole, loopholes are an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
You're really hoping someone will take the bait on this comment . That's twice you've posted it . You should keep in mind your the one taking the risk that ZOS won't punish these "loopholes" you're describing . If this was 2014 or 2015 , I'd probably agree these broken mechanics will go unnoticed as intentional exploits .
ZOS today has their back to the wall with the CE problem . If you get a temp ban for any of these , I wouldn't use this as your pre written appeal ...
If they do give out temp bans then if this was such an issue in their department why were the servers not taken down instantly and dealt with the problem instead of ignoring it, not putting any feedback about it and only having a copy and paste response from the PTS.
It makes no sense, a new player would be using this without even knowing they are doing wrong, they are just simply playing the game with the "intended" mechanic.#MOREORBS2 -
Rakkul✭✭✭arth-grogalith wrote: »
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
OK, fair enough
Not an exploit, then, but something I'd say still goes against the spirit of the game (imvho).
I agree it's on ZOS.
I agree regarding the spirit of the game.
But then I ask myself, do the people doing this have any interest in this spirit? Answer of course is no.
We have had exploits, cheats, hacks. You name it - the game has it, or has experienced it.
There's no spirit of the game for these people. There is only win at all costs, no matter the impact on anyone else who plays.
More and more, mmo pvp is turning into a cesspool of utterly selfish game wreckers.
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KramUzibra✭✭✭✭
Idk, to me it sounds like a copy and paste response
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
already been called an exploit when it was on PTS by ZO$
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268106/incoming-supernatural-gapclosers/p1
It was called both a bug and an exploit - which it is, and remember, exploiting doesn't always necessarily mean cheating if you knew the definition of it.
Anyway, I'm not defending it I am just saying it's highly doubtful any action will be taken but that is because personally I don't see this as something that is the players fault. I do see it as a bug more than anything, which it is.
Lol i
Nah, ban everyone for using animation cancelling. It gives an unfair advantage to those who can't do it, it's a bug and zos need to take action for bugs and exploits and ban everyone doing them or make a statement.KramUzibra wrote: »
I said nothing of the sort, I was merely acknowledging that there are grey areas and it would make no sense to ban someone on first offence because it could have been an actual mistake.
I'm sorry what? Are you sayings its okay to "cheat" once as long as you say sorry it was a mistake - that makes no sense
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I'm not inventing the wheel here. Lots of game developers regularly disclose known bugs and announce that exploiting them will have consequences. ZOS on the other hand adopts a "sweep it under the rug" strategy to dealing with these things.What about those new players who come to the game and are doing this and have no idea it is an "exploit" or if its just actually a bug.
Rationalisation doesn't make you right. Abusing bugs for an advantage is cheating, just as much as altering the game data. Software will always have bugs, it doesn't make it OK to abuse them. But it's up to ZOS to enforce some sort of strategy in this regard and as I said above right now they prefer to sweep things under the rug.You need to change what you think cheating is and what is a bug. You're out of your mind if you think ZOS are going to issue out bans because of a bug. This is 100% their fault.
Bugs are company based that affect everyone in an uncontrolled way, intentional or not.
Exploits are used to gain an advantage against someone, by exploiting a game mechanic - this doesn't always mean cheating.
Hacking is used to change data in the game.
Quite the contrary. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more in line to what your saying. Not cheating. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loophole, loopholes are an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
Yes, the game was recently hacked but a lot of people just have their witch hunt mentality in full
They shouldn't get rid of a mechanic because some lack the skill to do it.0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »
I said nothing of the sort, I was merely acknowledging that there are grey areas and it would make no sense to ban someone on first offence because it could have been an actual mistake.
I'm sorry what? Are you sayings its okay to "cheat" once as long as you say sorry it was a mistake - that makes no sense
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I'm not inventing the wheel here. Lots of game developers regularly disclose known bugs and announce that exploiting them will have consequences. ZOS on the other hand adopts a "sweep it under the rug" strategy to dealing with these things.What about those new players who come to the game and are doing this and have no idea it is an "exploit" or if its just actually a bug.
Rationalisation doesn't make you right. Abusing bugs for an advantage is cheating, just as much as altering the game data. Software will always have bugs, it doesn't make it OK to abuse them. But it's up to ZOS to enforce some sort of strategy in this regard and as I said above right now they prefer to sweep things under the rug.You need to change what you think cheating is and what is a bug. You're out of your mind if you think ZOS are going to issue out bans because of a bug. This is 100% their fault.
Bugs are company based that affect everyone in an uncontrolled way, intentional or not.
Exploits are used to gain an advantage against someone, by exploiting a game mechanic - this doesn't always mean cheating.
Hacking is used to change data in the game.
Quite the contrary. Players that hack and change the code of the game for personal gain is more in line to what your saying. Not cheating. The players that take advantage of a broken mechanic because zos did not fully cover their tracks is more like a loophole, loopholes are an exception that allows a system to be circumvented or avoided, failures of a system to account for all conditions, variables, or exceptions. It is zos responsibility to make sure the game is operating correctly and fix it if not. Kinda like animation cancelling, not an intended mechanic yet certain players took advantage of this and it's now accepted as part of the game. A happy little accident if you will
You're really hoping someone will take the bait on this comment . That's twice you've posted it . You should keep in mind your the one taking the risk that ZOS won't punish these "loopholes" you're describing . If this was 2014 or 2015 , I'd probably agree these broken mechanics will go unnoticed as intentional exploits .
ZOS today has their back to the wall with the CE problem . If you get a temp ban for any of these , I wouldn't use this as your pre written appeal ...
Absolutely! And thank you for biting. I'm just really lazy and don't want to rewrite the same response multiple times. Obviously they are not going unnoticed givin the multiple threads on this topic.
I just don't believe it's cheating.0 -
DDemon✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Having people being able to use multiple methods of getting into a keep adds depth and variety. It makes the game more interesting because there are more ways to do things and it makes the game more exciting. Be aware of it and avoid standing there like a numpty firing your snipe spam and wondering why you died.
Having skills such as 'Leap 28 metres through the air' and then restricting them by saying 'but only if its on a level plane and only if there is ground beneath you the whole way' is face-palm stupid.
nerfing skills like chains, leap, the Z axis etc are all fine examples of the results of incompetent players crying because someone did something that they didnt expect. That they listen to those narrow-minded players is breathtaking.
I sympathise with the "diversity" argument. Yes, it's fun to watch some players climb the wall and wreak havoc among the defenders. But there are a couple of problems with that.
Firstly, not all classes have a way to do this. I'm sorry but as long as only DKs and NBs can bypass siege, this can't be considered a valid game mechanic. I don't accept that if I play certain classes I can solo ninja a scroll out of a keep, but if I play certain other classes I can't.
Secondly, ZOS have stated that bypassing siege to get into a keep is an exploit. Sadly, they don't follow through and enforce this, but it's the only official position from the developers. As long as this is the case, they have a duty to prevent these exploits.
IMHO there are only two honest ways to resolve the issue: either ZOS enforce their own rule and fix skills that are being exploited; or they drop the rule and find a way for everyone to have access to ways of bypassing siege.
What we can't have is ZOS saying one thing, players doing a different thing, no enforcement whatsoever, and hundreds of (often quite heated) discussions about whether this is a cheat.
A simple solution would be to utilize the siege ladders I had to burn in one of the quest at davon's watch!! Make it only allow maybe 3 to 6 people and it an enemy player pushes the ladder off like in the medieval movies they take massive fall damage.
This bug has brought up some really interesting ideas! Siege ladders that have 2-3 uses and can get pushed away, or burnt and the players climbing it get a burn dot etc etc, omg!
Edited by DDemon on June 5, 2016 9:43PM0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Having people being able to use multiple methods of getting into a keep adds depth and variety. It makes the game more interesting because there are more ways to do things and it makes the game more exciting. Be aware of it and avoid standing there like a numpty firing your snipe spam and wondering why you died.
Having skills such as 'Leap 28 metres through the air' and then restricting them by saying 'but only if its on a level plane and only if there is ground beneath you the whole way' is face-palm stupid.
nerfing skills like chains, leap, the Z axis etc are all fine examples of the results of incompetent players crying because someone did something that they didnt expect. That they listen to those narrow-minded players is breathtaking.
I sympathise with the "diversity" argument. Yes, it's fun to watch some players climb the wall and wreak havoc among the defenders. But there are a couple of problems with that.
Firstly, not all classes have a way to do this. I'm sorry but as long as only DKs and NBs can bypass siege, this can't be considered a valid game mechanic. I don't accept that if I play certain classes I can solo ninja a scroll out of a keep, but if I play certain other classes I can't.
Secondly, ZOS have stated that bypassing siege to get into a keep is an exploit. Sadly, they don't follow through and enforce this, but it's the only official position from the developers. As long as this is the case, they have a duty to prevent these exploits.
IMHO there are only two honest ways to resolve the issue: either ZOS enforce their own rule and fix skills that are being exploited; or they drop the rule and find a way for everyone to have access to ways of bypassing siege.
What we can't have is ZOS saying one thing, players doing a different thing, no enforcement whatsoever, and hundreds of (often quite heated) discussions about whether this is a cheat.
A simple solution would be to utilize the siege ladders I had to burn in one of the quest at davon's watch!! Make it only allow maybe 3 to 6 people and it an enemy player pushes the ladder off like in the medieval movies they take massive fall damage.
This bug has brought up some really interesting ideas! Siege ladders that have 2-3 uses and can get pushed away, or burnt and the players climbing it get a burn dot etc etc, omg!
I know!! The quest that has you burn siege equipment incorporates a stack of siege ladders! Maybe this is an intended addition to siege equipment and they haven't got around to perfect it. I can only hop!0 -
Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭One of the funniest things I've seen in PvP was a vamp on top a keep, baiting a dk to leap, and then draining him in mid air before he could reach the wall. DK fell to his death.7 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭it almost makes sense to be able to ambush onto the keep wall since it's a teleport and within range, but I get it. It shouldn't really be a thing. Though it does add an interesting dynamic.
What I thought was crazy last night was I was at nikel and an NB ambushed a guy from the ground all the way to the top floor. That's like twice as high a main keep outer wall. now THAT is a bit rediculous lol. A DK did it too and knocked me off the wall to my death lol. He got up and immediatly dragon lept and there I went.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭So for all the people that says this should remains, I'm going to ask a question.
Imagine you are carring the Scroll, enter the outer walls of a keep, and you think are safe. Now some super night blade that before you arrive enter the outer walls of the keep and kill you, get the scroll and run out.
Is this fair? simply answer, NO.
Yes, it is fair and more fun, IMO.2 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mostly PvP on my Templar now, but I used to love leaping into keeps with my DK. I usually died, but it added some fun gameplay. One time another DK and myself leaped into a keep, killed/knocked off the wall the ten or so defenders that were up there before the inner got knocked down. We just stood there looking at our allies on top of the keep like, you coming?
I think there needs to be alternative ways into keeps for some more dynamic and interesting gameplay. Maybe not gap closers, but something.
And Take Flight should allow you to jump into a keep if you have a target. I mean, you sprout wings and leap into the air! The skill looks like that is what it was meant to do. And it looks so cool! It has a counter too as I believe you can be cc'd and knocked back while in flight.PC/EU DC1 -
Molec✭✭✭@daemonios
It would be completely outrageous and inappropriate for ZOS to ban someone for using an ability as it exists on the game.
They aren't doing special things to cause this, the ability itself is designed poorly.
There is no sequence of things you're doing to exploit, you just 'cast' the skill and it doesn't validate the z-axis
100% ZOS's fault
@holosoul
It would CERTAINLY NOT be completely outrageous and inappropriate to do this. It would simply be a matter of ZOS warning players that using skills to bypass keep walls is a bannable offence. If you leave your home door open, it's not OK for someone to come in and loot it. The fact that you can't see the difference between accidental use of a skill and the exploitation of said skill to bypass game mechanics says a lot. ZOS have stated multiple times that keep walls should not be bypassed without sieging.
If you leave your front door unlocked and somebody steals your goods your insurance company won't pay out (In England) due to the fact there was no forced entry.. Also banning people for using gap closers that ZOS broke? NO.
PC-EU 666cp+
Molec - Dunmer Magika Sorc
Lucius Bal - Altmer Magika DK
Avborh - Breton Magika Templar
Skorun - Altmer Magika NB
Darum-Zar - Khajiit Stamina DK
Nephi Dagon - Argonian Mag Templar
Warden of Red Mountain - Bosmer Stamina Warden
Warden of Dagoth-Ur - Altmer Magika Warden
George Carlin — "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"1 -
Thalmor-Nordmaster✭✭✭✭✭
ZOS_AntonioP
ZOS_AntonioP
mod
Hello everyone,
Many thanks for bringing this to our attention! While we understand you wish to have this more known to be corrected, but we have to ask to refrain from posting how to replicate these bugs on the forums to prevent the spread of this exploit. Instead we ask that you submit a ticket to customer support to have this properly investigated and corrected.
Thank you for understanding!
maybe we will see a green sticky like this!
To the people doing this. They made a statement. The rest is an Integrity test.Pass it and be well. Fail it and wallow in the Pool of Moral Turpitude.0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭In the ESO cinematic there are keep ladders, there should be siege ladders for taking unmanned keeps.
If a player is there they should be able to push it down and everyone currently climbing should die (even if they drop a visually short distance)0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am not nor dk nor nb, but if it is fun for them, keep those things, don't remove it, so people on outer walls won't be in 100% safety.0 -
pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »When seeing a keep sieged like watching a epic battle on tv...there are always people scaling the walls with ladders, ropes, towers on wheels. We have none of those correct. A lone NB should be able to sneak into a keep. If the keep isn't defended that's not the fault of the attackers. Why is using an ability wrong. Can anyone in this thread point to a link where there is an official statement saying it's an exploit and shouldn't be used? If not then it's all hearsay. If there is an official statement then they are exploiting a bug. Please provide a link to the official statement regarding these gap closers and their use as it pertains to keep siegeing.
The next step I suggest is finding a door key and opening keep from an inside.0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alex394053 wrote: »pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »When seeing a keep sieged like watching a epic battle on tv...there are always people scaling the walls with ladders, ropes, towers on wheels. We have none of those correct. A lone NB should be able to sneak into a keep. If the keep isn't defended that's not the fault of the attackers. Why is using an ability wrong. Can anyone in this thread point to a link where there is an official statement saying it's an exploit and shouldn't be used? If not then it's all hearsay. If there is an official statement then they are exploiting a bug. Please provide a link to the official statement regarding these gap closers and their use as it pertains to keep siegeing.
The next step I suggest is finding a door key and opening keep from an inside.
They just use battering ram from inside0 -
Hridh✭✭In the ESO cinematic there are keep ladders, there should be siege ladders for taking unmanned keeps.
If a player is there they should be able to push it down and everyone currently climbing should die (even if they drop a visually short distance)
There are "siege ladders" in the AD siege material you get to burn in a Stonefalls quest!0 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I agree with your sentiment, but in this case, this is just not true.
Consider ambush and a player who never reads the Forums. How should you know you're not allowed to use a teleporting strike on a target standing on the wall. Sure, it's dumb balance-wise, but for example in DAoC, stealthers could climb keep walls for quite some time.
This instance is barely an exploit but just bad ability design that works terribly with the design of keeps in Cyrodiil. Tbh, I also find it stupid that ZOS has referred to this as "exploit" rather than just a bugged ability.
If they call this an exploit, that might as ban people using remembrance right now, because that *** teleports you through the map, kills you from fall damage and whatnot.Edited by Kas on June 6, 2016 11:02AM@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@daemonios
It would be completely outrageous and inappropriate for ZOS to ban someone for using an ability as it exists on the game.
They aren't doing special things to cause this, the ability itself is designed poorly.
There is no sequence of things you're doing to exploit, you just 'cast' the skill and it doesn't validate the z-axis
100% ZOS's fault
@holosoul
It would CERTAINLY NOT be completely outrageous and inappropriate to do this. It would simply be a matter of ZOS warning players that using skills to bypass keep walls is a bannable offence. If you leave your home door open, it's not OK for someone to come in and loot it. The fact that you can't see the difference between accidental use of a skill and the exploitation of said skill to bypass game mechanics says a lot. ZOS have stated multiple times that keep walls should not be bypassed without sieging.
If you leave your front door unlocked and somebody steals your goods your insurance company won't pay out (In England) due to the fact there was no forced entry.. Also banning people for using gap closers that ZOS broke? NO.
Yeah, really useful metaphor. THERE IS NO INSURANCE IN ESO. It simply doesn't apply. The fact remains that robbing a house with an open front door is still a crime. Exploiting a game bug for unintended mechanics is still cheating. Troll harder next time.2 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Wouldn't call it an exploit if it's affecting something the player can barely control. I'd blame buggy code performance for this. All gap closers are bugged at the moment you float through the air with them.arth-grogalith wrote: »I don't think DKs can do that, or can they?
I've seen many NBs from all factions doing it on EU servers.
It's an exploit that defeats the purpose of a key aspect of the game (sieging).
How could ZOS let that happen after a major patch - beats me.
You would say that, wouldn't you, Mr. "used the mundus stone exploit to keep a level playing field"? It would be trivial for ZOS to check if players are repeatedly using bugged gap closers to get on top of walls. There's a difference between a one-time accidental use and players using it as a gameplay mechanic.
I agree with your sentiment, but in this case, this is just not true.
Consider ambush and a player who never reads the Forums. How should you know you're not allowed to use a teleporting strike on a target standing on the wall. Sure, it's dumb balance-wise, but for example in DAoC, stealthers could climb keep walls for quite some time.
This instance is barely an exploit but just bad ability design that works terribly with the design of keeps in Cyrodiil
Easy. Issue warnings before first disciplinary action is taken. It's not really rocket science, it just requires ZOS to enforce THEIR rules. They have said again and again and again that entering keeps without sieging walls/doors is unintended and an exploit. This is NOT a grey area. The only problem is lack of enforcement.
(next quote from another thread as proof of ZOS' official position on this matter)Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Be careful using loophole as an excuse ...
Edited by daemonios on June 6, 2016 11:08AM1 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭After DB gap-closers fix, I found then can atack flying Harpies in blackhearts heaven pledge with shielded assault skill (but taking fall dmg after each hit)0 -
Volla✭✭✭Actually i think this is the coolest feature yet so far, in DaoC you had one class that could climb the walls and take out archers etc, it became like small scale in a big scale pvp. I think its mire interesting when some classes can sneak in and take out Forward camps or other Enemies.
Keep it, so much more fun both in defence and offence when some of this is part of the game, like more random fight and you always have to be allert, even on the defending wall.
i say keep it.0 -
Pangnirtung✭✭✭✭✭In an attempt to fix gap closers they changed something that allows us now to gapclose up the walls in almost any keep.
Kinda stupid, but I actually prefer the current situation over the unreliable gap closers from last patch.
I have never seen this before. A bug fix creating another exploit? Unheard of.0 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its not a bannable exploit
if its and exploit like ZOS said
because there is 0 players banneed for using it
That is not true.
But the outcome of any action vs. a reported player in this matter is not shared with ticket creator or with public because ZOS privacy rules.
Here is the thing as long DKs and NBs stay on outerwall ZOS will not ban such reported players but when the scroll was taken or inner was sieged after jumping inside without having main door or outer down they get a warning for perma ban and a temp ban for exploiting.
However most DKs and NBs will not go any further anyway because they exactly know the consequences after the reported cheat tickets have been evaluated.
The problem are not these skills, the problem is that many players don't know the rules because lack of ZOS communication.
Edited by Bromburak on June 6, 2016 11:48AM1
