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Malubeth Set in PvP

WeWereNords
WeWereNords
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This is frankly the most OP set in the game right now and absolute cheese. I choose not to use it because of how obviously trashy it is yet I just can't play this game when anyone who is "gud" is using it in 1v1's and then trying to call me bad.

Upfront, the set is slightly broken (not working as intended or as should), however even if it were it needs to be severely tuned.

To start off it is NOT affected by battle spirit, the proc steals the exact amount of health that is shown, as well as the 30% healing is also applied to the health it steals, and being that this is already a huge amount, it's really impossible for any other set in the game to offer any kind of survivabillity remotely close. There are a few other sets in the game that are not affected by battle spirit and while it's off topic for this thread I do believe they need to be coded to be affected by battle spirit as well in PvP.

Since DB there has been a HUGE influx of people running malubeth and I've never seen one lose a 1v1. So if you're reading this thread trying to find a way to be good at PvP, please, farm wayrest sewers and get malubeth. The more people that run this in PvP, the more people will see how truly broken it is and will likely get it fixed.

I've always said if you gave me the reigns I could have this game action combat balanced within 24 hours so after discussing with some other friends I've compiled a few possible ways to have malubeth more balanced for PvP, in developing these ideas I've also tried to find ways to keep the set relevant to PvE. First and foremost I do NOT want this set nerfed to the ground, but it MUST be affected by battle spirit, and every one of these options I've come up with assume that the battle spirit debuff has been applied to the set already.

Option 1: Reduce the healing buff. if used on a nightblade or sorc it's not completely painful, but any Dk or Templar that's already running major mending now has a 60% heal buff when malubeth procs on top of the already outrageous self heal it gives increased by 60% O.o... If the sets heal was cut in half by battle spirit, and the healing was reduced to 10% additional healing it would be much more bearable. My first thought was this might break the PvE tanks, however if you're relying on malubeth for your survivability solely as a PvE tank, you're probably a pretty sad tank..

Option 2: Code roll dodge to break the beam. This was one of my favorite suggestions although I feel like it still leaves the set a little overtuned. Ranged specs don't have as much of a problem with malubeth since being over 10 meters away breaks the beam. Melee DPS are the ones with the problem and allowing them to break the beam with a dodge roll would be a skill based counter to the set, also this would leave PvE almost completely untouched because PvE mobs do not dodge roll (often).

Option 3: Remove the 30% healing increase. Just flat removing it would help balance the game more, I would say make it major mending so that it doesnt stack with a templars or DK's mending, but that's sort of the advantage temps and DK's have and if nightblades and sorcs were running it too, it would lead to more imbalance. Just removing the heal buff altogether from malubeth would balance the set more.

Option 4: Remove the 30% healing increase, and make it steal a percentage of your max health. I sort of like this option the best because the main problem with the set in PvP is that any DPS can run malubeth and become as powerful and hard to kill as any tank. by making this change it really kills the set for DPS (as it should), but almost buffs it for tanks in both PvE and PvP, making the set more of a tank set as I believe it was originally intended to be. I've seen some of these templar tanks running around with 60k health, if it stole 33% of your max health from the target that would be 20k, affected by battle spirit 10k. To me this seems like a fair way to allow tanks to do some damage in both PvE and PvP.

Maybe i'm just complaining but I know i'm not the only one out there that thinks this set is just absolute cheese in PvP. I would really like to see something done about malubeth BEFORE the next patch. I'm probably not going to be playing ESO against this frustrating meta and therefor I would like to see this fixed without having to wait another 4 months.
  • Dark_Aether
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    Blame @Alcast for every templar and their mom wearing it...luv ur vids btw :)
    Edited by Dark_Aether on June 3, 2016 8:14PM
  • Talyena
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    Not a 1v1 game
  • Jaronking
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  • WeWereNords
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    Talyena wrote: »
    Not a 1v1 game

    any game in which there are 1v1 encounters is a 1v1 game. and besides, anyone with skill running malubeth can tank up to 5 people comfortably and not die.
  • WeWereNords
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    Jaronking wrote: »

    trying to offer suggestions on my thread instead of just crying "waaaaaaaah this set is OP".

    I've genuinely spent time in game talking to other veterans I am friends with trying to compile what THEY think would be the most balanced fixes to this. I did not just take ANYONES opinions. These took a lot of discussion to compile with other veteran players and I hope to have them seriously considered, particularly option 4 which is my favorite fix.
  • Jaronking
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    Jaronking wrote: »

    trying to offer suggestions on my thread instead of just crying "waaaaaaaah this set is OP".

    I've genuinely spent time in game talking to other veterans I am friends with trying to compile what THEY think would be the most balanced fixes to this. I did not just take ANYONES opinions. These took a lot of discussion to compile with other veteran players and I hope to have them seriously considered, particularly option 4 which is my favorite fix.
    What are you talking about I never said the set were OP I just said their another thread for this already.
  • WeWereNords
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    Jaronking wrote: »
    Jaronking wrote: »

    trying to offer suggestions on my thread instead of just crying "waaaaaaaah this set is OP".

    I've genuinely spent time in game talking to other veterans I am friends with trying to compile what THEY think would be the most balanced fixes to this. I did not just take ANYONES opinions. These took a lot of discussion to compile with other veteran players and I hope to have them seriously considered, particularly option 4 which is my favorite fix.
    What are you talking about I never said the set were OP I just said their another thread for this already.

    the other thread... all it is is "waaaaaaah this set is op". i'm not tryna attack you we are on the same side, I'm just trying to offer suggestions on how to fix it in my post!
  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Agreed, OP. The set is vastly overtuned and broken. No respect for anyone I see wearing this in pvp.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • SleepyTroll
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    @Talyena Wrobel litterely said this game is balanced off 1v1 duels during eso live.
  • Talyena
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    @Talyena Wrobel litterely said this game is balanced off 1v1 duels during eso live.

    Probably why the game is going in the wrong direction. It was created around large scale PvP and it's being turned into Black Ops online.
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Literally the only thing I want from this set is the defile immunity it provides. If it just sat there and cleared defiles I'd be happy with it. Maybe make it remove defile and debuffs in some fashion (not dots, just debuffs)
    Edited by Armitas on June 4, 2016 10:57AM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Molag_Crow
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    Ooooh... :o I have this set in my bank and as a Mag Templar, I'm tempted to use it but if it's really that messed up, I'll just stick with engine guardian to be honest.
    --ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
    YoutTube ESO Playlist
    The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
    Be your true, authentic self.

  • incognito222
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    Good Day WeWereNords,

    We fought outside BRK a few days ago 1v1, on my HA Female AD Nord Magplar, likely to be on the same day you started this post. It went on for over a minute where we would burst each other down to about half health, both heal back to full and resume our dance. It may well have been over a minute where some random players were standing by to watch. Pretty much a stalemate where we sheathed our weapons and I walked towards you to bow as a sign of respect and whisper "gf bro".

    Surprisingly, you replied that I was trash, pathetic and ran a cheese build. Furthermore, you added that I had no skill etc. for running the Scourge set. I whispered back wanting to ask why but could not (likely you put me on ignore after spewing such comments) and you immediately rode away. It seemed odd to me at that moment since we both were achieving similar results in terms of damage and self healing. Having read the post above, I now understand your thoughts.

    If I'm allowed to share some thoughts on your analysis, the key source of my survivability is due to the heals from my Templar abilities such as Puncturing Sweep, Breath of Life, etc. (as you witnessed during our dance) which complements Heavy Armor passive well (increase healing received) in addition to use of Immovable potions and other specific item sets. To add to this, my crit resist is quite high and that may be why your EP Stam DK could not burst me down as quickly as you usually do towards other players. Admittedly, you are a beast of a player, I've seen you wreck people quickly with your build and you're so hard to kill, only times I've seen you defeated is when you have 5+ players pounding away at you, so you definitely have a good build, good resource management and excellent skills.

    The Malubeth Scourge Set by itself IMHO offers no significant advantage (none more than my magplar abilities) in terms of damage output and heals. The set itself does not proc as often as people think, it is unreliable where I sometimes 1v1 and it would not proc at all and the proc is easily countered (as covered in various threads by numerous experienced players). If one were to rely on this set for heals and survivability, I would suggest you try it out yourself, you will be disappointed. I do understand that this is somewhat debatable but I would like to share that I can achieve similar heals (albeit slightly less) on my build when I use Skoria. I'd honestly use Bloodspawn if I have them since that would be better IMHO.

    And I agree with the core of your intentions that this game needs more balance, but whether the monster set in focus needs more 'balance' requires more testing and confirmation. What I do not agree is how you make personal insults to people who you cannot defeat quickly. It is a game, winning and losing is part and parcel of gaming and we are all here to have fun, build a healthy community and help each other out. People wreck me OFTEN with the build I used against you.

    The way you responded to my gesture of respect after our fight, is outright toxic and uncalled for. Please do not get me wrong, you might have had an awful day at that time and I bear no hard feelings. I simply hope next time we meet (and if by some miracle I survive again) when I bow to you, please do not respond with insults. I do not take offense but other players might and that negativity may spread, which would be unfortunate to the community in general.

    I apologize if my comments offended you, or if my opinions did not contribute much to your analysis that the Scourge set is OP. In my opinion, on its own it is not. Peace, have fun and wish you a pleasant day ahead, from a fellow Nord to another (I presume you are one, from your character name). English is not my first language, so please forgive me for any grammatical mistakes.

    Shout out to sensei @Alcast for selflessly sharing builds that inspire and awe many of us.


    Respectfully,
    Haelga Milkdrinker (AD Templar)
    *Playing from Indonesia where 400+ ping and delays are the norm*
    * Playing from Indonesia *
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    The Malubeth Scourge Set by itself IMHO offers no significant advantage (none more than my magplar abilities) in terms of damage output and heals. The set itself does not proc as often as people think, it is unreliable where I sometimes 1v1 and it would not proc at all and the proc is easily countered (as covered in various threads by numerous experienced players). If one were to rely on this set for heals and survivability, I would suggest you try it out yourself, you will be disappointed. I do understand that this is somewhat debatable but I would like to share that I can achieve similar heals (albeit slightly less) on my build when I use Skoria. I'd honestly use Bloodspawn if I have them since that would be better IMHO.

    Yeah that is my take on it. It's really not OP on it's own. No one bats an eye when people shuffle roll around rocks popping large vigors, no one bats an eye when a NB eludes and entire raid while viscous death prox bombing, no one bats an eye when a sDK keeps corrosive armor up...but stand your ground and survive even in a 1v1 and people lose their minds, they absolutely lose their minds.

    I get the same hate whisper > offline modes over it as well from people that think their skill is primary to thier former success of ganking nubs and group builds on the way to keeps. Its not thier skill, those people didn't play any harder than me, they relied on thier knowledge and thier build just the same as me, skill comes last in this game. Knowledge > build > skill.
    Edited by Armitas on June 4, 2016 2:41PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Ashamray
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    Is it really not affected by battle spirit? Is it only healing of beam or damage of beam too?
    Edited by Ashamray on June 4, 2016 2:16PM
    Boadrig, EU PC

    Very Balanced
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    Imperial City feedback and suggestions
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    Can't we just have nice things for a change?
    "We're all born under the same sky and on the same earth. Therefore, we all deserve the same amount of respect."
    Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU
  • r.jan_emailb16_ESO
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Is it really not affected by battle spirit? Is it only healing of beam or damage of beam too?

    That's the change to it according to patch notes:
    Scourge Harvester: Fixed an issue where the heal from this item set’s proc was being reduced by Battle Spirit; healing based on damage done will no longer be double-penalized by Battle Spirit.
    Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
    playing for eXile


    I'm done, CU somewhere else.
  • laksikus
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    So OP is telling that the damage from scourge is not affected by battle spirit? If that is true it has to be nerfed. But if only the heal is not getting battle spirit its fine, cos Double battle spirit otherwise
  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Is it really not affected by battle spirit? Is it only healing of beam or damage of beam too?

    That's the change to it according to patch notes:
    Scourge Harvester: Fixed an issue where the heal from this item set’s proc was being reduced by Battle Spirit; healing based on damage done will no longer be double-penalized by Battle Spirit.

    Ah, then it's OK. Topic starter claims that Malubeth heals the same amount shown in tooltip (I guess it is 7-8k), but it's wrong, isn't it?
    Boadrig, EU PC

    Very Balanced
    Battleground Beta Testers
    Cite's Legacy
    Colosseum

    Imperial City frequenter
    Imperial City feedback and suggestions
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Funny that I've been running this set in PvE on my NB tank and occasionally PvP for well over a year. It's always been solid, it's just now people are realizing it's potential now that the heal isn't penalized by Battle Spirit buff.

    It's easily counterable: It requires the wearer to be in more-dangerous melee range, and can be easily broken by someone if they simply dodge-roll away or CC break. For NBs, the proc is broken/overridden by the Soul Tether ult. Plenty of other basic weaknesses/counters to it.
    The Malubeth Scourge Set by itself IMHO offers no significant advantage (none more than my magplar abilities) in terms of damage output and heals. The set itself does not proc as often as people think, it is unreliable where I sometimes 1v1 and it would not proc at all and the proc is easily countered (as covered in various threads by numerous experienced players). If one were to rely on this set for heals and survivability, I would suggest you try it out yourself, you will be disappointed. I do understand that this is somewhat debatable but I would like to share that I can achieve similar heals (albeit slightly less) on my build when I use Skoria. I'd honestly use Bloodspawn if I have them since that would be better IMHO.

    Agreed. The larger mechanics/systems are more problematic than the set.
    Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
    Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
    Wayra High Elf Sorceress
    Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
    Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    Very interesting
  • r.jan_emailb16_ESO
    r.jan_emailb16_ESO
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Is it really not affected by battle spirit? Is it only healing of beam or damage of beam too?

    That's the change to it according to patch notes:
    Scourge Harvester: Fixed an issue where the heal from this item set’s proc was being reduced by Battle Spirit; healing based on damage done will no longer be double-penalized by Battle Spirit.

    Ah, then it's OK. Topic starter claims that Malubeth heals the same amount shown in tooltip (I guess it is 7-8k), but it's wrong, isn't it?

    If I don't forget about it I'll make some screenshots of my combat log later today.

    Tbh I can't kill someone with this set, but my build is not a high damage one either, so that's fine for me. I can however get bursted down, so it's not like this set made me or anyone immortal... but from what I've read here, OP has some kind of sustained, tanky-ish build. Sounds alright to me that you can tank 4-5 guys on the one hand and are not able to kill someone that stacks defense as you do.
    Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
    playing for eXile


    I'm done, CU somewhere else.
  • Synozeer
    Synozeer
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    I posted about this in another thread, but Malubeth is bugged to high hell.

    On my Templar, I often get 10k healing ticks from it. Yesterday I got a 20k+ tick. Not sure if this is an interaction with other healing buffs like Purifying Ritual or Channeled Focus that are bugging it out.

    And this one I'm not sure if it's just Malubeth or a combination of two bugs. Someone using Guard on me was proccing my Red Diamond (Imperial passive that heals me) like crazy, and they were 5k+ heals each time.

    I know the Bahraha's Curse set also gives off big heals from time to time too, and that bug might be related in some way to what's happening with Malubeth.

    Edited by Synozeer on June 4, 2016 2:38PM
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  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Synozeer wrote: »
    I posted about this in another thread, but Malubeth is bugged to high hell.

    On my Templar, I often get 10k healing ticks from it. Yesterday I got a 20k+ tick. Not sure if this is an interaction with other healing buffs like Purifying Ritual or Channeled Focus that are bugging it out.



    According to what I have been told if you have the Malubeth proc all your heals will enter your log as a malubeth heal. It's not healing for 10k. It's just the way your own heals enter the log.
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Tonnopesce
    Tonnopesce
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    Ok from this evening i will wear the malubeth, maybe i win some fights finally....
    Signature


  • incognito222
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    With regards to the current heal from Malubeth Scourge set (if it procs), as a comparison I'd like to ask fellow players to observe heals from by Vigor on a Stam build running mostly medium armor. At CP160, stamina builds can easily achieve 34K+ Stamina resource and 4K+ weapon damage. You will see that the heals generated are more significant in value over five seconds than what the Malubeth Scourge set can generate when (and if) it procs. IMHO the 30% increase to heals is justified because the chance for this monster set to proc is pretty low.

    Example of superior heal value from Vigor was demonstrated by an outstanding player @Yoyuyi999 on one of his Stam DK videos. And this does not depend on RNG, it happens 100% of the time whenever you press that skill. If you watch the video, chances are you will be impressed.

    With regards to the current damage dealt by the Scourge set taking into account battle spirit (again if it procs and such damage can easily be avoided), the damage value is less than one snipe, less than one crystal frag, less than one wrecking blow/dizzying swing.

    I would agree to an extent with @Armitas :
    "Yeah that is my take on it. It's really not OP on it's own. No one bats an eye when people shuffle roll around rocks popping large vigors, ... ... ... ... ...but stand your ground and survive even in a 1v1 and people lose their minds, they absolutely lose their minds."

    Stamina builds running 5+ medium armor with above illustrated weapon damage and stamina resource stats will outheal Malubeth Scourge set 100% of the time. I get more healing from Vigor WITHOUT Malubeth on my Stamina NB, whilst having the ability to hit much harder. Same applies to my Stamina DK, I believe the topic starter will agree to a certain extent, as he is a very skilled Stamina DK running Vigor as well.

    However, I encourage everyone to discuss, in the hope that ESO will improve over time towards achieving better balance and it becomes a game we all enjoy even more. Thank you to all who have shared their thoughts, hope we all get to learn from each other in a constructive and positive manner.

    Peace and happiness to all.
    * Playing from Indonesia *
  • Armitas
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    Peace and happiness to all.

    You are an impressive person.
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • incognito222
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    @Armitas , as are you kind Sir
    * Playing from Indonesia *
  • Synozeer
    Synozeer
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    Armitas wrote: »
    Synozeer wrote: »
    I posted about this in another thread, but Malubeth is bugged to high hell.

    On my Templar, I often get 10k healing ticks from it. Yesterday I got a 20k+ tick. Not sure if this is an interaction with other healing buffs like Purifying Ritual or Channeled Focus that are bugging it out.

    According to what I have been told if you have the Malubeth proc all your heals will enter your log as a malubeth heal. It's not healing for 10k. It's just the way your own heals enter the log.

    Not true in my case. In no way can I do 10k or 20k heals (I'm not even sure what in the game could even heal me for 20k+). And this has also happened when I'm in a 1v1 with no one else healing me, so it couldn't be someone elses heals. I'm a Bomplar with low magicka and spell power - when I cast Honor the Dead, I heal for 8k at most, and more commonly 3-5k. And I am also getting 5k+ heals with Red Diamond while wearing Malubeth.
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    ...and many more.
  • incognito222
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    @Synozeer ,

    That is an interesting observation as on my Heavy Armor Magplar, I am unable to come anywhere close to the the heal values you have shared with us. I believe this warrants further investigation as to what other skill / ability / item set, may trigger such numbers. My Templar is a Nord so I would not be able to assist in confirming the Red Diamond passive together with Malubeth Scourge set.

    Perhaps another kind soul may assist and if indeed this is happening, we should alert ZOS of the situation.

    Out of curiosity, are you running 'Briarheart' set with Malubeth ? Or 'Alchemist' set perhaps ?
    * Playing from Indonesia *
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