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Should Endgame Armor drop with Prosperous and Training Traits?
Yolokin_Swagonborn
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More information about this issue in This thread.
According to the testing done by @code65536 Undaunted shoulders drop in 7 traits (all except nirnhoned and impenetrable). What traits the helms drop in was unconfirmed but it is assumed they come in the same traits as the shoulders.
Note: I realize that there are other issues, such as whether sets should drop in Nirnhoned or Impenetrable, I just want to know if anyone actually wants to get endgame gear that looks like this:
If you want a more comprehensive poll that also asks about Nirnhoned and Impenetrable, click HERE.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on May 23, 2016 8:42PM According to the testing done by @code65536 Undaunted shoulders drop in 7 traits (all except nirnhoned and impenetrable). What traits the helms drop in was unconfirmed but it is assumed they come in the same traits as the shoulders.
Note: I realize that there are other issues, such as whether sets should drop in Nirnhoned or Impenetrable, I just want to know if anyone actually wants to get endgame gear that looks like this:
If you want a more comprehensive poll that also asks about Nirnhoned and Impenetrable, click HERE.
Should Endgame Armor drop with Prosperous and Training Traits? 234 votes
YES, I want endgame armor to drop in Prosperous and Training.
5%
12 votes
NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.
94%
222 votes
0
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phaneub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES, I want endgame armor to drop in Prosperous and Training.I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.3 -
TheSpin✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.I am a new player... something like 40 CP so far.
I like the old training trait so I can level up any weapon/armor skills I still need quickly (I've done this with bow and 2 handed so far, leveled dual wield up until VR1). Then for actually playing through end-game content I want gear that makes me better at fighting.4 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Nothing says end game like training at end game.lol5 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.
I am glad that someone is taking up the less popular point of view so we can have a good discussion about this.
It's worthwhile to note that all of the other 7 traits, offer the player some sort of combat performance enhancement. E.g. more resources, more blocking, resistance to crit, etc.
Prosperous and Training are the only traits that don't offer a combat advantage in some way. Endgame gear has traditionally been about maximizing combat advantage.
I think the challenge that your viewpoint has to overcome is demonstrating is that non-combat enhancing traits would ever be desirable in an endgame situation.
There are plenty of other places to get those traits which of course can also be crafted if a new player wanted to level quickly. My question was specifically about the suitability of these traits for ENDGAME usage.6 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.
I am glad that someone is taking up the less popular point of view so we can have a good discussion about this.
It's worthwhile to note that all of the other 7 traits, offer the player some sort of combat performance enhancement. E.g. more resources, more blocking, resistance to crit, etc.
Prosperous and Training are the only traits that don't offer a combat advantage in some way. Endgame gear has traditionally been about maximizing combat advantage.
I think the challenge that your viewpoint has to overcome is demonstrating is that non-combat enhancing traits would ever be desirable in an endgame situation.
There are plenty of other places to get those traits which of course can also be crafted if a new player wanted to level quickly. My question was specifically about the suitability of these traits for ENDGAME usage.
I will also note that these sets are all about mid-maxed build. All of them are only useful if you already are CP capped. Moreover, they aren't good for farming, other set give better option for killing mobs again and again (the only case where prosperous/training are good, because they only applies their effect on mobs loot/xp). And last but not least, the horrible drop rate make the farm awful, and even more now.
For all these reasons, I think these set really don't need prosperous/training trait. Or if they have some, the drop loot need to be boosted. But I highly prefer a new special farming set (or just the actuals easy-to-get and good-for-farm sets) for farming, and these sets with good combat trait for high-end gearing.2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Oh yes of course I would LOVE to get a Kena set with Training or Prosperous trait for grinding! Absolutely great. Totally useful. I'm going to certainly be running endgame content ONLY to farm stuff that I can use for grinding instead of crafting a set specifically for grinding and reserving the endgame gear for doing endgame content. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE YOU GUYS.
If someone wasn't able to tell, I was being sarcastic. And I might be a little upset.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
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Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
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Elder_III✭✭✭✭I would be fine with all traits being possible IF the sets are BoE instead of BoP.
Since Monster sets are BoP (and should be) I would prefer they not have Training... Prosperous isn't that bad for grinding out Dreugh Wax at least.
Semi retired from the trading aspects of the game.0 -
TheSpin✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.@Yolokin_Swagonborn
You bring up a good question: Are any non-combat traits good for end-game.
I would say yes, but not those two. End-game doesn't care about xp and they don't care that much about gold (if they do they make it from the trader and not from grinding)
non-combat endgame traits might be something that helps with a non-combat aspect of the game, sneaking, pickpocketing, assassination etc. It would be more of a niche set of gear you wouldn't wear all of the time, but that you might pull out when needed. I don't think all of these types of bonuses should be restricted to set bonuses.1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why ask the question? History (of this game) has made absolutely clear that an enjoyable experience looting is not intended. When I (amongst others) have asked for crafting to actually be worth something, I (we) should have thought about the old adage "be careful what you ask for, you may get it".1 -
dpencil✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.The quality difference between a 2-3 piece crafted set vs a monater set is not significant enough to matter if someone is doing content such as zone questing which is already very easy. These are good traits and great for leveling players doing zone content who may have little money in the bank or want to grind mobs for xp instead of questing. They have no place for endgame players doing dungeons, trials, pvp, or vMA.
As a side note, I can understand why they are not including Impen on the loot table. Remember they are going to make the Impen version available for AP on The Golden vendor. That really is the most appropriate place for it, spending PVP currency for PVP gear. It would be nice if The Golden offered both a shoulder and helm each week though (not necessarily of the same set).1 -
ListerJMC✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.I clicked the wrong option. 7/7 prosperous at end-game will be super OP, I think it'll go really well with:
(Seriously I don't see why they did this, I don't think many people will want these traits at end-game it just seems like it's going to make people even more annoyed about RNG).PC NA & EU || Mammoth Guilds - Victory or Valhalla || Altmer sorcerer main
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."5 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.
But you can go craft yourself a full set with training or prosperous for grinding or questing, as those things are easy to do. No-one needs Valkyn Skoria or Molag Kena set for grinding or questing (if anyone does, they are doing it wrong). The traits that drop on those sets should have a trait to directly improve combat performance in end-game PvE and PvP content.Edited by Epona222 on May 24, 2016 12:10AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.2 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.I'm pretty sure that ZoS employees account for the 3 votes in favor of this system. Nobody with an ounce of sanity actually wants prosperous or training on endgame gear. The fact that it's being ADDED in shows a massive disconnect between the person responsible for spearheading that ludicrous campaign in the ZoS offices and the players actually grinding this gear.
ZoS, please do not go ahead with this change and as an added bonus, please demote the person in the office responsible for suggesting it. He/she will be eventually responsible for countless people raging and/or leaving the game and should not be allowed to make such changes in the future. They are not to be trusted in any position in the company which allows them to make these sort of changes as they clearly have no clue what sort of changes are needed/wanted for game balance. This change adds NOTHING but more grind in areas that are already considered grind heavy.1 -
ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Yea, I'm out of patience on this one. It's common sense why this is a bad idea, there shouldn't need to be a poll or discussion thread.
I don't know if there are staffing issues, conflict of interest, if people are overworked, rushed, or what, but this kind of change indicates something isn't working. I love this game, but it frequently suffers because of things like this. I really hope you guys can get it together.0 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.I know ZOS are excited about the trait revamp. But no matter how you improve traits, some traits are just intrinsically not suited for endgame content. Gear that drops from endgame content should be targeted at playing endgame content. And running around in circles grinding overland trash mobs is not endgame content. And that is all Training and Prosperous are good for. They have a place and they are better than the existing traits that serve a similar purpose. But they still have no place in endgame loot tables. The vWGT/vICP gear grind to get Divines is miserable as it is. If you make the gear grind exponentially longer by putting more undesired traits in the loot table, you run the risk of driving people away from vWGT and vICP. That content is pushing a year old. You should be making it more desirable to run, to reignite interest in older content. This makes it less desirable to run.3 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Duh.ContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.
Do you realize that now, just grinding for a proper set of gear will take you from 200 CP to 501 CP?2 -
Attackopsn✭✭✭✭✭YES, I want endgame armor to drop in Prosperous and Training.I want to get more exp while wearing scathing when I'm grinding for divines pieces so it only makes sense that I would need them to also drop in additional non-divines traits. In fact just take divines out all together and replace it directly with training.
Edited by Attackopsn on May 24, 2016 7:50AMign: ATTACKO
PS4 NA
First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode0 -
Teridaxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I clicked the wrong option. 7/7 prosperous at end-game will be super OP, I think it'll go really well with:
(Seriously I don't see why they did this, I don't think many people will want these traits at end-game it just seems like it's going to make people even more annoyed about RNG).
Golden marksman axe with defending > your staff0 -
Mush55✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.It just makes you wonder with how hard it is to get the set you want with a decent trait WTF are they thinking of .
Sure the people who implement these things are just taking the P**S.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Can't wait to get my Training Moondancer Bow from the weekly#MOREORBS0 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I can honestly say I see a reason to having them appear on end-game armor when MMO's are a continuous game, with Dark Brotherhood finally making the leap from Veteran to Champion future DLC and possibly Expansions will increase the caps on levels, champion points, and skill lines as well as stronger, static non-scaled content. There's also the players who are below 200 CP will be able to obtain this gear now that the Veteran Rank restriction is gone, they will still be developing their skills, doing quests, killing monsters, and going through Silver/Gold zones. You have to look at it from a long-term perspective.
Eventhough I agree with you that those traits can be useful for end game, doesnt mean I want the prison drop gear in training.
We farm those for divines and being useful in endgame content, not to grind CP.
And those with 200 CP, cannot complete prison anyway.
So to sum up, yes those traits can be useful and good but pls I want my divines drop like everyone else. People dont care about xp and gold when we are pushing our scores in trials.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
ListerJMC✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »I clicked the wrong option. 7/7 prosperous at end-game will be super OP, I think it'll go really well with:
(Seriously I don't see why they did this, I don't think many people will want these traits at end-game it just seems like it's going to make people even more annoyed about RNG).
Golden marksman axe with defending > your staff
Ok so it's not gold and the trait could be better... but you can't deny that the stamina recovery this staff offers compliments the abilities in the restoration staff skill line more than any skill line that could possibly use an axe! Edited by ListerJMC on May 24, 2016 3:01PMPC NA & EU || Mammoth Guilds - Victory or Valhalla || Altmer sorcerer main
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well then, I think the community has spoken.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Please pass this on and let us know when we can expect the removal of these traits from the gear that drops from all Endgame experiences (i.e. Undaunted Dungeons, Trials, PvP rewards and vendors, etc)3 -
DDemon✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Well then, I think the community has spoken.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Please pass this on and let us know when we can expect the removal of these traits from the gear that drops from all Endgame experiences (i.e. Undaunted Dungeons, Trials, PvP rewards and vendors, etc)
Just replace them with impenetrable, at least that trait is useful.4 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Well then, I think the community has spoken.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Please pass this on and let us know when we can expect the removal of these traits from the gear that drops from all Endgame experiences (i.e. Undaunted Dungeons, Trials, PvP rewards and vendors, etc)
Just replace them with impenetrable, at least that trait is useful.
There is pretty much one trait everyone wants for PvE, and one everyone wants for PvP. Right now the games drops in 7/9 traits so you have 1 chance to get the best trait and 6 chances to get something else.
So if they remove prosperous and training, but add in impen and nirnhoned, they the dilution rate is the same but at least every trait that drops will do something useful for someone combat wise.
The best takeaway from this would be to remove training/prosperous and add nirnhoned/impen.
PvPers get a chance at impen, Everyone gets a chance at a nirn decon or research item, ZOS still gets to dilute the loot tables with 7 traits.
Everybody wins.9 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Well then, I think the community has spoken.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Please pass this on and let us know when we can expect the removal of these traits from the gear that drops from all Endgame experiences (i.e. Undaunted Dungeons, Trials, PvP rewards and vendors, etc)
Just replace them with impenetrable, at least that trait is useful.
There is pretty much one trait everyone wants for PvE, and one everyone wants for PvP. Right now the games drops in 7/9 traits so you have 1 chance to get the best trait and 6 chances to get something else.
So if they remove prosperous and training, but add in impen and nirnhoned, they the dilution rate is the same but at least every trait that drops will do something useful for someone combat wise.
The best takeaway from this would be to remove training/prosperous and add nirnhoned/impen.
PvPers get a chance at impen, Everyone gets a chance at a nirn decon or research item, ZOS still gets to dilute the loot tables with 7 traits.
Everybody wins.
Best solution. ZOS PLS!Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
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Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||3 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, Prosperous and Training should be omitted from the loot tables.
Except for the Craglorn nirn farmers. #NirnFarmerLivesMatterYolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Everybody wins.
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Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Except for the Craglorn nirn farmers. #NirnFarmerLivesMatterYolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Everybody wins.
;^)
Pfft. Nirn farmers have no lives.
besides, nirn got nerf after nerf and its value is dropping on live. Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on May 25, 2016 7:10PM0
