Life After Proxy Det

Junkogen · May 2016

Now that proxy det has become the latest victim of the whiner nerf bat, what is a magicka NB or any other class to do? Reroll stamina or what? Anyone have build suggestions now that proxy det is half the ability it used to be?

Proxy det is a mainstay for me in PvE and PvP and now it's poo poo. This makes me sad. I loved to listen to the wind up and eventual BOOM! These are dark times indeed. :'(

Sunburnt_Penguin · May 2016

I have no words*

*other than: "I have no words"

Brrrofski · May 2016

It still works the same against groups. Which is it's intent.

I succesfully play a magica NB with no det. Same with magica Dk and magica sorc. I only use it on my templar. Even then, I could manage without.

Van_0S · May 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

It still works the same against groups. Which is it's intent.

I succesfully play a magica NB with no det. Same with magica Dk and magica sorc. I only use it on my templar. Even then, I could manage without.

What he means is " No! More Bombing build".
Finally!!!, you guys will use your brain/skills then just mindless bombing.

Rohaus · May 2016

I like the idea of Proxy... but always felt it should be strong against big numbers versus single targets.

Steel Tornado suffered nerfs and rightly so... I wish they would change it so it did more damage against numbers.

Steel Tornado is very bad and weak against a single targets which is why only noobs use it on single targets... however, it should be made stronger against larger numbers...

No AOE damage should ever be highly used against single targets... that's just silly...

code65536 · May 2016

For PvE, I'll be replacing det with path.

Septimus_Magna · May 2016

The nerf will make large spread out zergs unkillable, its only somewhat useful if you find a way to hit like 6-10 targets at once. Remember that AOE caps kick in when you hit 6 players..

If they want to keep the low dmg the radius should be a lot bigger.

Hibbou · May 2016

They change one skill and you can't play your class anymore? well than you should maybe reroll to an other class, and as you said, maybe stop acting like a "whining give me my one button win build"

Junkogen · May 2016

I'm just asking for some build advice, dang. This forum is toxic....

Sunburnt_Penguin · May 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

I'm just asking for some build advice, dang. This forum is toxic....

As evidenced by your OP

whiner nerf bat

Junkogen · May 2016

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I'm just asking for some build advice, dang. This forum is toxic....

As evidenced by your OP

whiner nerf bat

Well, there was a lot of complaining. Tell me I'm wrong.

DjSolJAH · May 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

It still works the same against groups. Which is it's intent.

I succesfully play a magica NB with no det. Same with magica Dk and magica sorc. I only use it on my templar. Even then, I could manage without.

It is taking a slight damage reduction against groups as well. No official number that I've seen as far as how much though.

covenant_merchant · May 2016

@Hibbou if that skill is detrimental to your build (see mana nb - deto, sorcs - dawnbreaker etc etc.), it may actually be easier to reroll, as well as QQ in hopes that someone will listen.
Also, if you happen to be the same guy who tries his hardest on PC EU server as an AD stamblade with shieldbreaker, your argument is rendered even more invalid simply by the fact that you are the epitome of "one button wonder", just spamming light attacks, even against stamplars xD.

kadar · May 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Now that proxy det has become the latest victim of the whiner nerf bat, what is a magicka NB or any other class to do? Reroll stamina or what? Anyone have build suggestions now that proxy det is half the ability it used to be?

Proxy det is a mainstay for me in PvE and PvP and now it's poo poo. This makes me sad. I loved to listen to the wind up and eventual BOOM! These are dark times indeed. :'(

Junkogen wrote: »

I'm just asking for some build advice, dang. This forum is toxic....

Prox Det will now be useful for it's intended purpose instead of dueling/small scale. How is that bad in any way?

the latest victim of the whiner nerf bat

You started this thread down a toxic path with tone of your post, mate.

Junkogen · May 2016

Can we put the past behind us. I'm sorry I set a toxic tone. Now can we get to some productive discussion? Again, I'm sorry.

Septimus_Magna · May 2016

Stam NB will be very good in pvp and average for pve (somewhat depending on your race).

Magicka NB be good in pve but harder to play in pvp.

What do you play most and what combat style to your prefer?

Hibbou · May 2016

@kasa-obake

first of all, my apologies, you haven't impressed me enough to remember your name or faction (although I have quite a list

)
that beeing said, how is proxi det "detrimental to your build"have you never seen a magicka player play without it? can't you play eso without it? there s only one scenario where it is "detrimental" (in solo playing) the Crual death build, exactly... very important to the game ...
the shield breaker part ...

what s wrong with that set, it has max stam stam regen, weap damages (not as much as hunding, but still) and as a 5th bonus? being a pain in the a.. to shield spammer.
calling me a one button wonder... haha, nice one, in fact there is actually one button I don't use in a fight on both my bars, now if you meant the light attack spam against shield spammer, yes, guilty as charged

Junkogen · May 2016

Hibbou wrote: »

@kasa-obake

first of all, my apologies, you haven't impressed me enough to remember your name or faction (although I have quite a list )
that beeing said, how is proxi det "detrimental to your build"have you never seen a magicka player play without it? can't you play eso without it? there s only one scenario where it is "detrimental" (in solo playing) the Crual death build, exactly... very important to the game ...
the shield breaker part ... what s wrong with that set, it has max stam stam regen, weap damages (not as much as hunding, but still) and as a 5th bonus? being a pain in the a.. to shield spammer.
calling me a one button wonder... haha, nice one, in fact there is actually one button I don't use in a fight on both my bars, now if you meant the light attack spam against shield spammer, yes, guilty as charged

See, now why is it okay for you to utilize a popular set, but vicious death and proxy det are for idiots? Yes proxy det is great for the build but it's not all I use. I have ranged and support abilities. I swap things out depending on the situation. It just so happens that, yes, proxy det makes magicka burst much better. As a NB I have found that we don't have the survivability of other classes, so killing quickly has to be high on the priorities or I die. I just don't see how your shield breaker build is so ingenious where you can pu down other people's builds.

iam117 · May 2016

in pve replace it with shades/path. in pvp, what did you do before prox det was a thing? it was never meant to be a single target skill, so it will work as intended, will still work fine for group play.

Junkogen · May 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Stam NB will be very good in pvp and average for pve (somewhat depending on your race).

Magicka NB be good in pve but harder to play in pvp.

What do you play most and what combat style to your prefer?

I like playing both depending on how burned out I get on one. I like PvP best I would say, though. As many have guessed I've been running with proxy det and vicious death. Although, I wouldn't necessarily call it a bomber build as I have an Argonian and can't put out the kind of damage that other races can. Before vicious death and Clever Alchemist, I had a pretty typical build of a mix of some range with close up. I guess I could throw double take on for some more defense and survivability. I don't know. Like I said, I kind of liked running around with a bomb strapped to me. It's never a sure thing. Most people run with defense against if. Heck, Sorcs can survive anything with their shields.... Anyway, it may be the FoTM right now, but is fun for me before vicious death.

covenant_merchant · May 2016

Oh I only fought you once on Haderus, if you can call that fighting since your group with tout en os and other frenchies kept coming to sejanus and trying to avenge/res each other. But that's hardly important, I didn't expect you to remember every name of every person you so very desperately try to kill. At any rate, you actually made quite an impression on me, because you kept spamming your fancy little light attacks on my stamplar, on the off chance that I had the igneous shield from my DK group mate on. Which is, I have to admit the best use of shieldbreaker I've seen so far. (Running around sej main gate with cloak -light attack ad infinitum, or well until you died. Hell I even laughed at your friends about since I cba with the weird ponctuation in your name).

As for the proxy being useful, well there is a thing called "burst" which builds can have without vicious death on. You see, instead of wearing down the targets with light attacks and the occasional poison injection on the off-chance that it kills inb4 the target cleanses it with ritual, you can time all your damage output to hit all at once, so the enemy can't heal himself and dies from all the heat. On a sorc for example, you can use curse + deto + dawnbreaker + instant frags. Which, until the DB launch, is still a viable dueling build.
Since deto and dawnbreaker are nerfed for mana builds next patch, and I do say nerfed for dawnbreaker because both morphs doing physical damage will result in a dps loss. Ofc if you knew what you were talking about, you could say to put points in Mighty to compensate for that, but then you would lose out on points put into thaumaturge/elemental expert, and it would still result in an overall dps loss. In the end, it would force sorcs like me to find alternatives to my main dps output, and given that mine camping seems like a rather sad way to do it (and is still a more defensive than offensive skill), the overall questioning of the deto nerf (in conjunction, for sorcs at least, with the dawnbreaker change), feels justified.
For now I do not see a viable alternative to the burst offered by DB + deto even after trying out winterborn + valkyn and so many other sets, and so I will contribute and QQ about upcoming nerfs, and call not very good stamblades who still feel concerned enough by this change out on it.

Silver_Strider · May 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Hibbou wrote: »

@kasa-obake

first of all, my apologies, you haven't impressed me enough to remember your name or faction (although I have quite a list )
that beeing said, how is proxi det "detrimental to your build"have you never seen a magicka player play without it? can't you play eso without it? there s only one scenario where it is "detrimental" (in solo playing) the Crual death build, exactly... very important to the game ...
the shield breaker part ... what s wrong with that set, it has max stam stam regen, weap damages (not as much as hunding, but still) and as a 5th bonus? being a pain in the a.. to shield spammer.
calling me a one button wonder... haha, nice one, in fact there is actually one button I don't use in a fight on both my bars, now if you meant the light attack spam against shield spammer, yes, guilty as charged

See, now why is it okay for you to utilize a popular set, but vicious death and proxy det are for idiots? Yes proxy det is great for the build but it's not all I use. I have ranged and support abilities. I swap things out depending on the situation. It just so happens that, yes, proxy det makes magicka burst much better. As a NB I have found that we don't have the survivability of other classes, so killing quickly has to be high on the priorities or I die. I just don't see how your shield breaker build is so ingenious where you can pu down other people's builds.

People have criticized Shield Breaker as being an unfair set as well but it is nowhere near as broken as Vicious Death. Shield Breaker punishes shield spammers only, Vicious death punishes everyone that gets even remotely close to one another but sometimes getting close is somewhat mandatory (like going thru a keep breach or even in sewers). Shield Breaker only applies on light and heavy attacks, Vicious Death applies whenever you kill someone and can keep going off in a chain reaction. Shield Breaker doesn't come in Jewelry, Vicious Death does.

Really different parallels.

ostrapz · May 2016

If you wanna bomb prox+vd will still be good for bombing. If your ganking throw on some relentless and mage light and you be ok. I believe prox will still single target for around 4k single target with good build so it will be good for that

Autolycus · May 2016

Comment removed because never mind.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · May 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

If you wanna bomb prox+vd will still be good for bombing. If your ganking throw on some relentless and mage light and you be ok. I believe prox will still single target for around 4k single target with good build so it will be good for that

See, I like your idea.

I like the skill system to be diverse, and each skill to have a niche. For me, the fun of this kind of system is to build ability sets that synergize well together and create a balanced game where many varied builds and styles are viable.

I like the idea of Proxy Det being used for zerg busting, or to add a little burst to a melee Magicka build.

But - as it stands now - it's just too good to NOT have on your bars. When everybody in your raid has it running 24/7, maybe it's TOO good?

Hibbou · May 2016

kasa-obake wrote: »

Since deto and dawnbreaker are nerfed for mana builds next patch, and I do say nerfed for dawnbreaker because both morphs doing physical damage will result in a dps loss. Ofc if you knew what you were talking about, you could say to put points in Mighty to compensate for that, but then you would lose out on points put into thaumaturge/elemental expert, and it would still result in an overall dps loss.

ok, first, I think you don t have any clue of what nerf means...
second, what you re saying is "OMG why the hell did they put physical damages to dawnbreaker"... dawnbreaker... from the fighter s guild... did I ever complain about shooting star beeing magical damage? Now, try and give me one actual ultimate that scales physical damages... there is only one and it's a DK ultimate, you're crying about having to put a few points in mighty to make it effective, well guess what, until DB, our CP didn't have any influence on our ultimate, and as you said, If I knew what I was talking about, I would probably say something like "yeah you're right, using dawnbreaker for a magicka class will be a DPS loss, there is only one ultimate in the whole game and they turned it to physical damage, it didn't affect stam classes to have magicka ultimate, but having stam ultimates is such a meaaaaaan nerf, bouuuuhouuu :'( "

Pigment · May 2016

It needed to get nerfed, people seem to use it as a crutch. If you can't pull good dps without it, or you can't pvp without it, you're not good at this game

Waffennacht · May 2016

It needed the change, it was never meant to be one of the hardest hitting moves on a single target.

Though I get OP's sentiment.

We need an insta cast magicka move for dps (def for sorcs) webs is gonna go, i wont use det (as i prefer solo 1v1 etc) the mage skill line is all buffs or ground cast...

I dunno much about NBs, but aside from lotus, what other dps magicka moves you have?

OrphanHelgen · May 2016

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

I have no words*
*other than: "I have no words"

Nerf words pls

Vangy · May 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Now that proxy det has become the latest victim of the whiner nerf bat, what is a magicka NB or any other class to do? Reroll stamina or what? Anyone have build suggestions now that proxy det is half the ability it used to be?

Proxy det is a mainstay for me in PvE and PvP and now it's poo poo. This makes me sad. I loved to listen to the wind up and eventual BOOM! These are dark times indeed. :'(

Uhm.... get VD, cloak and lotus fan into groups with proxy and soul tether..... Blow groups up? The bomber man magblade has not been nerfed with proxy at all.. Just do what you've always been doing and you will be fine.. It just wont work against a poor single player anymore... It should never have in the first place.

Junkogen · May 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

It needed the change, it was never meant to be one of the hardest hitting moves on a single target.

Though I get OP's sentiment.

We need an insta cast magicka move for dps (def for sorcs) webs is gonna go, i wont use det (as i prefer solo 1v1 etc) the mage skill line is all buffs or ground cast...

I dunno much about NBs, but aside from lotus, what other dps magicka moves you have?

We have a few tricks up our sleeves: strife, cripple, twisting path (conal aoe DoT), sap, impale, concealed weapon, these are the main ones. The wonderful thing about det though was, as everyone knows, is you can time it to go off with other stuff to augment your DPS. No other abilities do, that to my knowledge. In PvE the other abilities work fine, but in PvP as a NB the burst was crucial. We don't have the spammable self-heal or shields. I guess the shields will be open to everyone now.... Whatever, I'm just going to miss the ole boom boom. I don't care how much the snobs look down on me. I'll probably still run it, but the old girl won't kick like she used to.