Power Bash and the fact that it does not CC

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

Attackopsn wrote: »

I think he means that there are no sliding issues/the ability doesn't even cc anymore, and should they return the cc, they shouldn't include the disorient to avoid any issues returning to the ability

exactly what i meant

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Jordaen wrote: »

i agree it should be a cc, but it should not be a cc does damage and give a heal debuff. same thing with fear(cc, dmg debuff, and snare)

Problem is most S&B users NEED the heal debuff (unless you go all out on damage, but that's a sacrifice I won't make). Then we also need a stam CC. Reverb was the perfect skill to give us both of these. I'd be fine if they took away the damage buff they gave it as long as get the CC and Heal Debuff

I have to chime in. I agree it is really unfortunate them getting rid of this CC. Like many core skills in my line up, this is one that I will miss greatly. I really never expected this one though. If there's a problem with a cc, just fix the cc to be normal. I don't see the reason to get rid of it outright.

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Jordaen wrote: »

i agree it should be a cc, but it should not be a cc does damage and give a heal debuff. same thing with fear(cc, dmg debuff, and snare)

Problem is most S&B users NEED the heal debuff (unless you go all out on damage, but that's a sacrifice I won't make). Then we also need a stam CC. Reverb was the perfect skill to give us both of these. I'd be fine if they took away the damage buff they gave it as long as get the CC and Heal Debuff

I have to chime in. I agree it is really unfortunate them getting rid of this CC. Like many core skills in my line up, this is one that I will miss greatly. I really never expected this one though. If there's a problem with a cc, just fix the cc to be normal. I don't see the reason to get rid of it outright.

Exactly, and they did fix it in TG patch as well which is the weirdest part.

Powerpeach · May 2016

Tried fossilze last night instead of reverb and ended running out of magicka so had No CC and no heal Debuff ...........

ZOS i applaud you don't go live with this change its awful we need a Stun that's stamina and not a Gap closer

Ivan04 · May 2016

I'm here to agree with the OP and say that it's a silly change, hopefully it's just one of those cases where devs break the skill to fix it in the future. We need more good stam CCs ZOS, and power bash was really cool-looking, now it's a useless dps skill that nobody's gonna use cause there are better alternatives, which are way worse than the old power bash.

Dyride · May 2016

Reverb heal debuff was one of the only ways to get enough burst using SnB for the non-Stam NB classes. Not only removing the CC but also making the range 5 m means for most combat you have to gap-close and immediately hit them with Reverb or it will miss.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · May 2016

I don't mind the range change you can't high five faces like Captain America from across the room. But the CC helped the whole skill line.

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

Yes the range change isn't a big deal. It's a gpod change, but like nearly everyone here, the CC change was stupid

Rohaus · May 2016

I too am quite unhappy with the CC removal from Reverb. Taking down targets without the CC will be much more difficult.

ZOS, no one asked for this. No one was complaining after the sliding bug was fixed. Please revert this change!

OdinForge · May 2016

Bring back the CC for Reverb bash, it took way too long for ZOS to fix this ability. They finally fix it and now they remove it, for no reason.

Reverb is my go to as a stamblade on blue stat food, magicka regen being so low I preferred a stamina based CC that was easier on my stats, over fear which hurt my mana pool too much. I don't want to rely on an ultimate for CC (no matter how cheap it cost), I also don't want to rely on a gap closer with minimum distance for CC.

Please revert this CC change. I'm hoping to come back for DB to test the game, but this is a disappointing change.

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

I agree, no one asked for the complete removal of this skill. The CC was fixed too, I still don't understand ZOS logic.

cschwingeb14_ESO · May 2016

The skill is now very useless, and expensive. It's priced like an infrequently used CC ability, but it's now a spam ability

I can understand their intention with the +25% damage after a block, but it's just not enough. Suggested changes:

1) Reduce cost by 20-30%
2) Add a buff/debuff to the base ability

Or

Just revert it

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

I feel like the other morph should keep the damage (but still keep the CC as well) as it would be very useful for someone who would lile to play a bursty S&B playstyle.

While the other morph, just CC's and does a heal debuff with minimal damage.

OdinForge · May 2016

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

I feel like the other morph should keep the damage (but still keep the CC as well) as it would be very useful for someone who would lile to play a bursty S&B playstyle.

While the other morph, just CC's and does a heal debuff with minimal damage.

Pretty much this.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Yea, this was a weird change.

Reyals · May 2016

Really insightful thread 100% agree,
tl;dr

Highscore_Unlimited · May 2016

I don't always agree with Yoyuyi999, but when I do ...

The changes they make to some abilities are clearly because they cannot fix its current issues.

The fact that stamina's only reliable cc will now be a cast time with clunky animation cancelling is amazing.

They remove power bash in its current state "Working perfectly fine, also a melee ranged cc" and don't even look at the fact you can crit charge, cancel heavy attack (During the travel time of crit charge) in to an instant WB (Light attack cancelled) execute in under 1.5 seconds.

This is why I will never sub.

Highscore_Unlimited · May 2016

Who says melee based cc is a problem in this game?

Has anyone been radiant destructioned lately from 43 yards away for 15K. (600+ champion points min maxed to stop this one ability for hitting me hard).

I think being able to cc in melee range makes perfect *** sense in this game, literally every single ability has a snare attached to it in pvp with passives making melee require speed pot 100% uptime with shuffle spam just to stay on their target or move 10 feet in zerg pvp.

cdobratz · May 2016

I really look forward to having Invasion as my only CC on my dk builds now. ~le sigh~

juhasman · May 2016

Well skill itself was fixed in TG but not entirely. I had few times bug when i couldnt break free from stun (not from disorient from 2 sec stun). In my opinion that skills was little too tough with 3 effects+dmg, 1h+shield have very powerfull effects (reducing armor,reducing speed,reducing dmg,reducing healing,stun.disorient,increased ulti charge)and have not bad dmg so it was obvious they'll nerf something sooner or later. Still if skill was bugged (even if only a little) or too op I can agree with removing the stun but I cant agree that we dont get anything in return ,like idk removing minimum range from invason.

xylena · May 2016

Restore the stun, but not the disorient.

Some_Guy · May 2016

I genuinely wonder if Zenimax is reading and/or considering ANY of this, or are we just wasting our time again?

OdinForge · May 2016

The easy answer is to look at history and say we're wasting our breath. The only thing we can do is voice a collective opinion, Xylena is right in that they should have just removed the disorient.

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

I still have hopes ZoS will listen to the majority on this one. I also believe this is a relatively small and easily revertible change so we still have a possibility this could happen. Just like how purify got rebuffed.

DerAlleinTiger · May 2016

Some_Guy wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

ZOS isn't going to listen to you. It's like a child who had a "good" idea. They don't want you poking holes in their theory about how to fix something that isn't broken. Just tell them that duct tape, super glue, and a paper clip will make it all better and shut your face hole.
Be happy they even allow you to play this game at all.
Ingrates.
I hope they develop every single game you will ever want to play.
That'll teach you.

you need to calm the hell down lol

I NEED a lol or "haha" button like this ability needs to keep its CC

someone is salt

Just the opposite. I love this ability, the way it is working now. I just enjoy the occasional troll as well. But ZOS does have a tendency to "force feed" us fixes that weren't needed because (it feels like) they know what we want more than we know. There's no way PvErs are complaining about this, and the PvPers who are/were, either don't know how to use it, or can't beat it.

Actually, as a PvE tank, I think this is a horrible change. Mostly because I almost never use the ability as it is and will absolutely never use it without the CC. The only reason for me to ever use a stamina-based CC is on a few select fights where you need to keep adds off the team but you either cannot aggro them or it's a pain to juggle their aggro. And so I need that very long CC. Obviously a very rare occurrence there, but I still slap it on my bar every now and then. Otherwise, why would I ever use a stamina CC in PvE as a tank? I need that stamina for blocking, damnit! Now with this change and the removal of the CC it will go from a "Once in a blue moon" ability to a "Well, that's wasting two skill points" ability for me.

olsborg · May 2016

reverberating bash had too much going for it, major defile and cc all in one. Thats just talking about reverberating bash morph tho,

Yoyuyi999 · May 2016

olsborg wrote: »

reverberating bash had too much going for it, major defile and cc all in one. Thats just talking about reverberating bash morph tho,

Which is a necessity unless you are running an unusual amount of damage. But S&B requires sustain and it's playstyle is about wearing a target down. Both the CC and Major Defile were key factors in this playstyle.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · May 2016

olsborg wrote: »

reverberating bash had too much going for it, major defile and cc all in one. Thats just talking about reverberating bash morph tho,

One Hand and Shield with a high DPS is good but it needs the CCs and defense to work blocking is natural when you have that shield no matter how cheap blocking kills your recovery and not wearing heavy armor you have to attack cause you can't take the hits.

With 3.5k weapon damage I have heavy attacks that can crit for more then the damage of some of them attacks.

Dyride · May 2016

I would hope that this is revisited before DB goes live.

The main thing I would like restored to Power Bash morphs is at least a 6m range, preferably back to 7m. The ability to land 5m abilities has been seriously weakened in the current snare meta.

Additionally, I think returning a short stun to these skills is needed. No more disorients but a 2.5 sec stun.

ZOS_KNowak · May 2016

Thread bump! Thanks for the feedback on the changes to Power Bash. We agree with a lot of the things said in this thread and have made some revisions to this ability and its morphs based on your comments.

In the next PTS build, you should see the following changes:

Power Bash and Reverberating Bash changes have been mostly reverted; these abilities are back to dealing low damage and stunning the enemy hit.
The disorient on these abilities has been removed, but the stun duration has been increased to 3 seconds, up from 2 seconds.
Power Slam will remain as-is. It removes the stun in exchange for significantly higher damage, with the option for additional bonus damage after a blocked attack.

Our goal with these changes is to keep Power Bash and Reverberating Bash as a option for playstyles utilizing the crowd control or Major Defile healing debuff, while Power Slam becomes an option for playstyles that do not need those auxiliary effects and want to emphasize dealing damage while using the One Hand and Shield skill line.