Official Feedback Thread for Templars

AfkNinja · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

It absolutely is gutting the class when every patch they push our dmg higher but destroy our defense. When you picked Templar did you pick templar for 1337 dps? Probably not, Templar should be more about mitigation, being that wall/shield that stands tall in the tempest. ZOS is actively destroying this every patch. Stamplar has it even worse, at least Magplar can still heal and now shield through dmg. Stamplar doesn't have the MP to spam ritual for purges so now I have to find a different way to mitigate this new poison power creep.

With the new poisons people can drop 4-5 status effects on you with 1 attack. That's 3 purges now. You literally can't keep them removed if this goes live. They have systemically destroyed every mitigation skill we have as Templar's. Did you read the last 80 page feedback thread? What about the patch threads for the last year? They went down the line of Templar mitigation and hit every single skill with the nerf bat, sometimes multiple times.

Have you EVER seen ANYONE complain about Purifying Ritual purging 5 debuffs? NO, because everyone understood that was one of the key features of Templar....that they purge your effects through the power of light/healing. Yet for the second patch in a row both our main heal (magplar) and ritual have been nerfed.

Why do they keep nerfing mitigation and pushing dmg higher patch after patch? Why is this whole game just a DPS race now? I'm sick of it.

PS: As a Stamplar Ritual was VITAL to my survival, it is now a shadow of itself. I like the snare but it's not worth losing 3 purges.

Kas · May 2016

did some more testing: stamina is great fun and fairly strong (mainly because the poison dk dots, incap strike with its heal debuff and crafted poisons are the new shiny things that you face everywhere and purging those is great). magicka however didn't feel too great. you still have many skills that can be outplayed (dark flare dodge, sweeps rarely fully hit against a non-cc'ed good enemy, rd interrupt, vbane dodge/reflect, etc) and somehow it feels liek my stamplar is the better self-healer. sure, spamming HtD/BoL is big anti-burst and healing ward and harness can gibe you sorc-like abilities to play aroudn damage shields.

however, a single vigor actually gives more health if you don't need more healing per second. on top of the shuffle and the stamina to dodge more often, made my stam build the better self healer.

magicka felt a bit like a sorc (stack shields. deal good damage) but in a worse way. going meele is questionnable because you lose a root/shuffle battle of movement and find yourself spamming ritual a lot. going for range makes you a slightly worse sorc (especially one who's atttacks are a little easier to avoid).

the changes to heavy armor are very welcome to BoL spamming builds. I think the typical magicka build will be a group's healer in HA. in principle, that's fine. But very sadly, healing still is a lot of skill spamming and relatively little taking care of environment.

speaking of environment: the LoS changes to healing really need some more love. it's possible that stanind up a hill with perfect sight still counts as no LOS. While this also applied to DDs, they immediately notice when they cannot attack an enemy. healing thing air instead of your ally will lead to quite a bit of frustration

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

I don't think you pvp to much, templars are being gutted in those terms, templars have now a weaker house then a sorc and can bail out of it anymore when someone invades it as good as sorcs aswell, as for best healer that is debatable due to the fact that NBs can effectively heal and dps at the same time with one move

Kattemynte · May 2016

It would be nice to see some insight from ZOS about these changes and how almost everyone here hates the purifying ritual changes.

Zheg · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

Anazasi · May 2016

I think Ritual of Retribution damage should tick every second and sacred ground should be 70% snare instead of 30% this might help the Templars a little.

Lyar09 · May 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Implication of the nerf to purify is pretty big on a stamplar too. Most stamplars probably run max health and stam good or max health and stam regen. So spamming a magica skill is problematic.

You are correct! Also, the increased cost is killing stamplar as well. Stamplar literally has no way to mitigate damage now other than the 8% from restoring focus. But, 8% of nothing is still nothing. Meanwhile, stam DKs and NBs have mitigation through cloak and igneous shield. Thanks for making burning light proc physical damage. But this nerf to purify is a joke. Give me back my 5 cleanses please. I don't care about mediocre aoe MAGIC damage! FFS can we get class balance already? Before answering that Zos, revert your changes to purifying ritual and stop killing my class.

cpuScientist · May 2016

Whoa not to be rude but the Templar QQ is a bit overstated, this class is still very good, Eclipse is actually a good spell, not GREAT but it's great. Still have the best purge even with 2 (this does need to be restored or at least boosted though no denying that) they needed to put this damage over to the stupid extended morph, by oh well. But come on now, templars are in no way dead their skills work together you have options, I have all classes save NB at endgame, and the Templar and DK suck at running away no doubt but they do great damage and HEALS. In trials really nothing at all can compare to a Templar healer NOTHING. Stamina regeneration is to good highest burst heal and a good Templar healer is still pulling great deeps. PVE templars are amazing PvP especially in the pts in my testing with my Sorc I was losing primarily to templars with them purging off my 2 dots and throwing on Eclipse which forced me to break free and my Stam is not regenerating fast enough for me to do much add to that i am now movong slowly and it was a nightmare, then the dps from them was taking down my shields reight quick, really i got beaten down, while I am by no means an elite in PvP or whatever I have been killing it on live and had great success with my pet build but the damn near seemed unkillabke in skilled hands.

cpuScientist · May 2016

Anazasi wrote: »

I think Ritual of Retribution damage should tick every second and sacred ground should be 70% snare instead of 30% this might help the Templars a little.

The damage should either be higher or tick every second and hell no 70% snare is far too much. That's more tha n Caltrops and way to overtuned that would be OP. 30% is FINE. It just needs to take off more than 2 negative effects and the damage morph be put on extended and leave purify alone or atleast ket it take off 3 or 4...

potirondb16_ESO · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Yea, giving in a lot of thought about quitting the game once purifying ritual goes live, or atleast playing casual without a subscription on a Nightblade. This game is causing me too much stress with all the Templar PvP nerfs each update; thinking we will get a chance at a buff.

1. Burst DPS vs. burst Heal imbalance. Way easier to out DPS than out Heal due to stun and fear. Healers have low stamina pools.True, but once again a full Healing setup may equal a full dps set up if not beat it
2. Ritual of Retribution weak damage compared to Daedric Mines.
3. Magick Templars lose Dawnbreaker and fighter guild passives. (Which totally breaks lore) Actually it doesn't quite break the lore if you consider that fighting guild mean warrior and not mage and that the domage is still the same
4. Rune Focus is a joke for damage mitigation compared to Hardened Ward.Rune focus is not the same as Hardened ward, it is the same as Lighting Form and yes it's not as good but now that harness magika give protection to physical domage, purifying ritual is probably better considering that Healing is the same for templar as hardened ward
5. Templars have no movement speed buff. That's true, but so has dk and templar will now have better crown contrôle then dk have now that they can snare opponent
6. Toppling charge and Explosive charge never fixed.Suppose to be in the next patch
7. Templars house has no alarm system. Templars are usually targeted first; even though there healing was nerfed.Maybe Healing templar need to focus on a different type of armor choice when they want to be Healing freely,
8. Vampire banes dot damage weak compared to DK dot damage Not sure about it
9. Templars cleansed nerfed down to purge.Templar purge is still the best you can find in the game, nightblade did complain when they were no longer cleansing 2 buff now it's templar that are low to a great utility spell but no longer a full methal jacket protection
10. Magicka Templars forced to use Meteor as a DMG ultimate. True
11. No fear ability such as Nightblades Aspect of Terror. Eats through our low stamina pool. Spear can work that way in a sens but yes nightblade have the best cc in the game but again while they do gain in offensive ability a good templar will take them down and it will be even worst now that with ritual is going to put them out of cloak quite easily as soon as they come near you
12. Execute that has been nerfed to hell. Easier to finish opponent with a puncturing sweep than switch to RD. Actually did notice a bunch of templar are using that skill at 70%-50% of your health which for sure turn it out to be a bad finisher but still it's undodgeable and pretty hard when use quickly in a small man group if other dps help you to get the enemy low life
13. Healing smart cast system. Usually the first one to die around others due to not being able to heal ourselves while using Honor the Dead. That's true it's an issue, templar not working with shield but with direct Healing have that issue a lot but I do believe shielding will now compensate for that in a very powerfull way for magika build
14. Dark Flare casting time is too slow. (This skill can hit for 44k in pve, pvp Wise, might not be as good as some other skill but it can still do a *** but it won't work in critical environement it's a situational burst.
15. AOE damage of Blazing Spear is a joke due to the slow landing time of the spear shard. The auto--target they h have implemented in the next patch will actually help to cast those ability way faster, but it's true the spear is not an aoe, it's Something we use as an aoe but that isn't it's a bit as a sorcerer running liquid lighting in pvp for aoe purpose... but I mean Bitting Jab is actally even more usefull when use in aoe situation so... might compensate for no real aoe
16. Healing of puncturing sweep nerfed again, even though the class style of a Templar is to try to heal through DPS for damage mitigation.Well actually pucturig sweep was able to heal you through a bunch of dps the more they were the easiest it was at some point, so it's true, it's a big nerf and maybe Healing could have been increase but still it's Something we will have to see for ourself
17. No Cloak; enough said.No cloack but a a brand new c class only magika caltrops !

cpuScientist · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

No other class has an in class purify and they do fine lol. Just throe up a shield and heal.... What really needs to be talked about however is the insane buffs NB is getting, they are WAY overtuned. Incapacitating needs to be 150 minimum, not freaking 50. I mean be honest they have needed the hell out of sorcs and hit the Templar again with the purify nerf, DK no real change except stamina got alot stronger and very stupid looking (will delete mine as that is just to stupid looking.) However NB's got nasty buffed and are still the undisputed undiluted Kings of PvP. Invisibility that can be spammed to the ends of time is too MUCH, and the counters to it are not really strong detect lots mean you cannot use other potions during that fight yikes and spamming inner light/ mages light is not REALLY feasible as if they see you doing that they know to either avoid you IR wait and strike. They have sets made that while good are really REALLY good with them, they have poisons which while good are really REALLY good with them. NB is king if PvP and still tops in PVE. Unlike a Sorc whose whole burst is set to a timer and can be purged off, a NB will come from stealth and kill you in 2 hits and disappear leaving you dazed and confused... No Bueno! So really what I am saying is how the hell is the purify nerf really what was needed ZOS? The biggest problem in PvP is not a Sorc or a DK or even a Templar spamming breaths or taking off a few dots and snares it's a NB with cloak a skill so powerful and with no equal whatsoever...

AfkNinja · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Whoa not to be rude but the Templar QQ is a bit overstated, this class is still very good, Eclipse is actually a good spell, not GREAT but it's great.

Eclipse is terrible in pvp. Terrible. Any standard CC can fulfill it's function (because people will break it immediately). No one in their right mind will let you use it, they'll just CC break it and now you can't CC them for 6 seconds. It's also not the best CC option anyway since it's not the cheapest skill.

Still have the best purge even with 2 (this does need to be restored or at least boosted though no denying that) they needed to put this damage over to the stupid extended morph, by oh well.

In a group setting Purge is much better actually as it doesn't require a synergy to function.

But come on now, templars are in no way dead their skills work together you have options, I have all classes save NB at endgame, and the Templar and DK suck at running away no doubt but they do great damage and HEALS.

Only Magicka Templar's have in class heals. Stamina Templar has to rely on out of class skills to survive the best of which, vigor, requires you to PVP to earn it. Till you have it you are at a big disadvantage.

In trials really nothing at all can compare to a Templar healer NOTHING.

After the last 2 patches this is simply not true. All magic classes can heal really well now.

Stamina regeneration is to good highest burst heal (Magic templar only) and a good Templar healer is still pulling great deeps. PVE templars are amazing PvP especially in the pts in my testing with my Sorc I was losing primarily to templars with them purging off my 2 dots and throwing on Eclipse which forced me to break free and my Stam is not regenerating fast enough for me to do much add to that i am now moving slowly and it was a nightmare, then the dps from them was taking down my shields reight quick, really i got beaten down, while I am by no means an elite in PvP or whatever I have been killing it on live and had great success with my pet build but the damn near seemed unkillable in skilled hands.

This entire statement is anecdotal and doesn't really prove anything.

You are only looking at one side of Templar.

Edit: 70% snare would be too much, 30% is fine but I want my 5 purges back. I want the snare on Jabs to be on every hit. I want eclipse to actually work or re-design it to be similar to DK wings. And I want an in class stamina HOT for Stamplar. It would also be nice if our rune didn't require us to stand in 1 spot like a moron.

Zheg · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

No other class has an in class purify and they do fine lol. Just throe up a shield and heal.... What really needs to be talked about however is the insane buffs NB is getting, they are WAY overtuned. Incapacitating needs to be 150 minimum, not freaking 50. I mean be honest they have needed the hell out of sorcs and hit the Templar again with the purify nerf, DK no real change except stamina got alot stronger and very stupid looking (will delete mine as that is just to stupid looking.) However NB's got nasty buffed and are still the undisputed undiluted Kings of PvP. Invisibility that can be spammed to the ends of time is too MUCH, and the counters to it are not really strong detect lots mean you cannot use other potions during that fight yikes and spamming inner light/ mages light is not REALLY feasible as if they see you doing that they know to either avoid you IR wait and strike. They have sets made that while good are really REALLY good with them, they have poisons which while good are really REALLY good with them. NB is king if PvP and still tops in PVE. Unlike a Sorc whose whole burst is set to a timer and can be purged off, a NB will come from stealth and kill you in 2 hits and disappear leaving you dazed and confused... No Bueno! So really what I am saying is how the hell is the purify nerf really what was needed ZOS? The biggest problem in PvP is not a Sorc or a DK or even a Templar spamming breaths or taking off a few dots and snares it's a NB with cloak a skill so powerful and with no equal whatsoever...

The other classes do fine because they have other survivability tools. Wings, cloak, streak, CC, shields, mobility, excellent resource management - all things Templars lack. They can survive without purges because they have other options. That's why there's so much frustration (again), purify was the last remaining defensive mechanic for a Templar. Wrobel grossly misunderstands the issues facing Templars and continues to give options for dps when thats the last thing we need.

AfkNinja · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

No other class has an in class purify and they do fine lol. Just throe up a shield and heal.... What really needs to be talked about however is the insane buffs NB is getting, they are WAY overtuned. Incapacitating needs to be 150 minimum, not freaking 50. I mean be honest they have needed the hell out of sorcs and hit the Templar again with the purify nerf, DK no real change except stamina got alot stronger and very stupid looking (will delete mine as that is just to stupid looking.) However NB's got nasty buffed and are still the undisputed undiluted Kings of PvP. Invisibility that can be spammed to the ends of time is too MUCH, and the counters to it are not really strong detect lots mean you cannot use other potions during that fight yikes and spamming inner light/ mages light is not REALLY feasible as if they see you doing that they know to either avoid you IR wait and strike. They have sets made that while good are really REALLY good with them, they have poisons which while good are really REALLY good with them. NB is king if PvP and still tops in PVE. Unlike a Sorc whose whole burst is set to a timer and can be purged off, a NB will come from stealth and kill you in 2 hits and disappear leaving you dazed and confused... No Bueno! So really what I am saying is how the hell is the purify nerf really what was needed ZOS? The biggest problem in PvP is not a Sorc or a DK or even a Templar spamming breaths or taking off a few dots and snares it's a NB with cloak a skill so powerful and with no equal whatsoever...

The other classes do fine because they have other survivability tools. Wings, cloak, streak, CC, shields, mobility, excellent resource management - all things Templars lack. They can survive without purges because they have other options. That's why there's so much frustration (again), purify was the last remaining defensive mechanic for a Templar. Wrobel grossly misunderstands the issues facing Templars and continues to give options for dps when thats the last thing we need.

QFT. Hit the nail on the head again Zheg.

Cinbri · May 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Whoa not to be rude but the Templar QQ is a bit overstated, this class is still very good, Eclipse is actually a good spell, not GREAT but it's great.

Eclipse is terrible in pvp. Terrible. Any standard CC can fulfill it's function (because people will break it immediately). No one in their right mind will let you use it, they'll just CC break it and now you can't CC them for 6 seconds. It's also not the best CC option anyway since it's not the cheapest skill.

Still have the best purge even with 2 (this does need to be restored or at least boosted though no denying that) they needed to put this damage over to the stupid extended morph, by oh well.

In a group setting Purge is much better actually as it doesn't require a synergy to function.

But come on now, templars are in no way dead their skills work together you have options, I have all classes save NB at endgame, and the Templar and DK suck at running away no doubt but they do great damage and HEALS.

Only Magicka Templar's have in class heals. Stamina Templar has to rely on out of class skills to survive the best of which, vigor, requires you to PVP to earn it. Till you have it you are at a big disadvantage.

In trials really nothing at all can compare to a Templar healer NOTHING.

After the last 2 patches this is simply not true. All magic classes can heal really well now.

Stamina regeneration is to good highest burst heal (Magic templar only) and a good Templar healer is still pulling great deeps. PVE templars are amazing PvP especially in the pts in my testing with my Sorc I was losing primarily to templars with them purging off my 2 dots and throwing on Eclipse which forced me to break free and my Stam is not regenerating fast enough for me to do much add to that i am now moving slowly and it was a nightmare, then the dps from them was taking down my shields reight quick, really i got beaten down, while I am by no means an elite in PvP or whatever I have been killing it on live and had great success with my pet build but the damn near seemed unkillable in skilled hands.

This entire statement is anecdotal and doesn't really prove anything.

You are only looking at one side of Templar.

Edit: 70% snare would be too much, 30% is fine but I want my 5 purges back. I want the snare on Jabs to be on every hit. I want eclipse to actually work or re-design it to be similar to DK wings. And I want an in class stamina HOT for Stamplar. It would also be nice if our rune didn't require us to stand in 1 spot like a moron.

If we got Eclipse as absorb version of Scales, we wouldnt need 5 purges. Anyway, this won't happen.
We can be proud - we only class who got nerf/"fix" of ALL defensive skills now.

Zheg · May 2016

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Yea, giving in a lot of thought about quitting the game once purifying ritual goes live, or atleast playing casual without a subscription on a Nightblade. This game is causing me too much stress with all the Templar PvP nerfs each update; thinking we will get a chance at a buff.

1. Burst DPS vs. burst Heal imbalance. Way easier to out DPS than out Heal due to stun and fear. Healers have low stamina pools.True, but once again a full Healing setup may equal a full dps set up if not beat it
2. Ritual of Retribution weak damage compared to Daedric Mines.
3. Magick Templars lose Dawnbreaker and fighter guild passives. (Which totally breaks lore) Actually it doesn't quite break the lore if you consider that fighting guild mean warrior and not mage and that the domage is still the same
4. Rune Focus is a joke for damage mitigation compared to Hardened Ward.Rune focus is not the same as Hardened ward, it is the same as Lighting Form and yes it's not as good but now that harness magika give protection to physical domage, purifying ritual is probably better considering that Healing is the same for templar as hardened ward
5. Templars have no movement speed buff. That's true, but so has dk and templar will now have better crown contrôle then dk have now that they can snare opponent
6. Toppling charge and Explosive charge never fixed.Suppose to be in the next patch
7. Templars house has no alarm system. Templars are usually targeted first; even though there healing was nerfed.Maybe Healing templar need to focus on a different type of armor choice when they want to be Healing freely,
8. Vampire banes dot damage weak compared to DK dot damage Not sure about it
9. Templars cleansed nerfed down to purge.Templar purge is still the best you can find in the game, nightblade did complain when they were no longer cleansing 2 buff now it's templar that are low to a great utility spell but no longer a full methal jacket protection
10. Magicka Templars forced to use Meteor as a DMG ultimate. True
11. No fear ability such as Nightblades Aspect of Terror. Eats through our low stamina pool. Spear can work that way in a sens but yes nightblade have the best cc in the game but again while they do gain in offensive ability a good templar will take them down and it will be even worst now that with ritual is going to put them out of cloak quite easily as soon as they come near you
12. Execute that has been nerfed to hell. Easier to finish opponent with a puncturing sweep than switch to RD. Actually did notice a bunch of templar are using that skill at 70%-50% of your health which for sure turn it out to be a bad finisher but still it's undodgeable and pretty hard when use quickly in a small man group if other dps help you to get the enemy low life
13. Healing smart cast system. Usually the first one to die around others due to not being able to heal ourselves while using Honor the Dead. That's true it's an issue, templar not working with shield but with direct Healing have that issue a lot but I do believe shielding will now compensate for that in a very powerfull way for magika build
14. Dark Flare casting time is too slow. (This skill can hit for 44k in pve, pvp Wise, might not be as good as some other skill but it can still do a *** but it won't work in critical environement it's a situational burst.
15. AOE damage of Blazing Spear is a joke due to the slow landing time of the spear shard. The auto--target they h have implemented in the next patch will actually help to cast those ability way faster, but it's true the spear is not an aoe, it's Something we use as an aoe but that isn't it's a bit as a sorcerer running liquid lighting in pvp for aoe purpose... but I mean Bitting Jab is actally even more usefull when use in aoe situation so... might compensate for no real aoe
16. Healing of puncturing sweep nerfed again, even though the class style of a Templar is to try to heal through DPS for damage mitigation.Well actually pucturig sweep was able to heal you through a bunch of dps the more they were the easiest it was at some point, so it's true, it's a big nerf and maybe Healing could have been increase but still it's Something we will have to see for ourself
17. No Cloak; enough said.No cloack but a a brand new c class only magika caltrops !

You butchered the quoting tags, I didn't say that xD

There's a lot wrong with your post. Templars better at crowd control than DKs? Wut? You ever hear of talons or cinder storm?

Pomaikai · May 2016

He doesn't play the class and he doesn't understand it either. IF he actually plays the game, then he's obviously just nerfing every class which messes up his day in PVP, and boosting the class he plays (NB).

Van_0S · May 2016

My guess is ,Wrobel hates paladins or any thing having a spear.
Have you seen an enemy NPC or monster that as a spear in their hands?

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

No other class has an in class purify and they do fine lol. Just throe up a shield and heal.... What really needs to be talked about however is the insane buffs NB is getting, they are WAY overtuned. Incapacitating needs to be 150 minimum, not freaking 50. I mean be honest they have needed the hell out of sorcs and hit the Templar again with the purify nerf, DK no real change except stamina got alot stronger and very stupid looking (will delete mine as that is just to stupid looking.) However NB's got nasty buffed and are still the undisputed undiluted Kings of PvP. Invisibility that can be spammed to the ends of time is too MUCH, and the counters to it are not really strong detect lots mean you cannot use other potions during that fight yikes and spamming inner light/ mages light is not REALLY feasible as if they see you doing that they know to either avoid you IR wait and strike. They have sets made that while good are really REALLY good with them, they have poisons which while good are really REALLY good with them. NB is king if PvP and still tops in PVE. Unlike a Sorc whose whole burst is set to a timer and can be purged off, a NB will come from stealth and kill you in 2 hits and disappear leaving you dazed and confused... No Bueno! So really what I am saying is how the hell is the purify nerf really what was needed ZOS? The biggest problem in PvP is not a Sorc or a DK or even a Templar spamming breaths or taking off a few dots and snares it's a NB with cloak a skill so powerful and with no equal whatsoever...

I don't disagree with you about NBs, but sorry this is a Templar feedback page, not a nerf NB page....

Kattemynte · May 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

My guess is ,Wrobel hates paladins or any thing having a spear.
Have you seen an enemy NPC or monster that as a spear in their hands?

Funny that you say that. A lot of city guards are DKs; plenty of mobs that stun you when they use the NB skill to jump to you; mini-bosses and mobs that use lightning and Sorc skills; uhh.... healer mobs as Templars...? Though really, would you want 3 mobs all hitting you with biting jabs?

cpuScientist · May 2016

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Abandon in disgust. Templars pull huge DPS and are the best healers. I have a max Templar and a Mac Sorc and DK. My Templar is pulling near DK numbers without having to juggle a million dots, while being useful as an off healer, and giving stamina back to our tank/melee. This is a powerful class, I truly do not get these kind of comments. Now the nerf of purify is a bit disgusting, but an adaptable change. It is not gutting the class in anyway. Just you have to cast it twice now, and it will pull NB outta stealth I personally really like this new skill just wish they replaced extending with this, the we would have a real choice on our hands... But noooo they gotta nerf our purify for the new poison meta.

But calm down templars are in a good spot great DPS and survivability, a house that is no longer made of straw, we just need a fee little tweaks and we are golden.

The 'house' is made even weaker. There were ZERO buffs to survivability or mitigation, zero buffs to help with resource management, zero buffs to mobility. You know what was done though? Ability costs across the board go up by up to 16% - something that affects Templars more than most because of the high base cost of skills. And, as everyone keeps talking about, purify nerf.

You should not have to hit purify multiple times for a single ability cast by one enemy, particularly when most abilities also do damage. If you're competing in the GCD race of purging debuffs from yourself, you will lose because eventually you need to heal up the damage being done.

Every nb and their mother will be using incapacitating strike next patch. Not only will they put you into or close to execute range with an ult that costs 50, they will heal debuff and stun you. Call me a realist, I don see how our veiled purify nerf is in the same league as a buff like that.

No other class has an in class purify and they do fine lol. Just throe up a shield and heal.... What really needs to be talked about however is the insane buffs NB is getting, they are WAY overtuned. Incapacitating needs to be 150 minimum, not freaking 50. I mean be honest they have needed the hell out of sorcs and hit the Templar again with the purify nerf, DK no real change except stamina got alot stronger and very stupid looking (will delete mine as that is just to stupid looking.) However NB's got nasty buffed and are still the undisputed undiluted Kings of PvP. Invisibility that can be spammed to the ends of time is too MUCH, and the counters to it are not really strong detect lots mean you cannot use other potions during that fight yikes and spamming inner light/ mages light is not REALLY feasible as if they see you doing that they know to either avoid you IR wait and strike. They have sets made that while good are really REALLY good with them, they have poisons which while good are really REALLY good with them. NB is king if PvP and still tops in PVE. Unlike a Sorc whose whole burst is set to a timer and can be purged off, a NB will come from stealth and kill you in 2 hits and disappear leaving you dazed and confused... No Bueno! So really what I am saying is how the hell is the purify nerf really what was needed ZOS? The biggest problem in PvP is not a Sorc or a DK or even a Templar spamming breaths or taking off a few dots and snares it's a NB with cloak a skill so powerful and with no equal whatsoever...

I don't disagree with you about NBs, but sorry this is a Templar feedback page, not a nerf NB page....

True just had to make a point

Cinbri · May 2016

There is easy way to fix Sun Shield and Eclipse: revamp Light Weaver passive to grant Major Evasion when inside areas of protection. Here, with such passive buff og templar house we will be strong enough without Eclipse and Sun Shield.

Minno · May 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

My guess is ,Wrobel hates paladins or any thing having a spear.
Have you seen an enemy NPC or monster that as a spear in their hands?

Last time we saw a player-equipped spear in an ES game was Daggerfall.

staracino_ESO · May 2016

Morrowind has spears and halberds!

Also I think it is funny that we are only ever asking for nerfs to be reverted, while other classes are only ever asking for buffs. We can't even keep the status quo.

Cinbri · May 2016

Just to add: making passive to proc Major Evasion on area of protection skills will be serious buff that will not reqire to change any other skills. If not with Restoring Light abilities, it can be added to Dawn Wrath passives (like Prism) to proc Major Evasion for X seconds upon activating Dawn Wrath skills. In the end it won't require to change core mechanic of skills but will make templar's passives very strong and synergizing with skills; no secret that right now templar's passives are worst, so such change will fix such thing like terrible defense, useless or weak skills and worst class passives.

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Just to add: making passive to proc Major Evasion on area of protection skills will be serious buff that will not reqire to change any other skills. If not with Restoring Light abilities, it can be added to Dawn Wrath passives (like Prism) to proc Major Evasion for X seconds upon activating Dawn Wrath skills. In the end it won't require to change core mechanic of skills but will make templar's passives very strong and synergizing with skills; no secret that right now templar's passives are worst, so such change will fix such thing like terrible defense, useless or weak skills and worst class passives.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please see this!!!

Minno · May 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Just to add: making passive to proc Major Evasion on area of protection skills will be serious buff that will not reqire to change any other skills. If not with Restoring Light abilities, it can be added to Dawn Wrath passives (like Prism) to proc Major Evasion for X seconds upon activating Dawn Wrath skills. In the end it won't require to change core mechanic of skills but will make templar's passives very strong and synergizing with skills; no secret that right now templar's passives are worst, so such change will fix such thing like terrible defense, useless or weak skills and worst class passives.

That would make reflective light viable for pvp. Still sucks dmg-wise but strengthens the survivbility tooltip and magicka utility.

I'll bite this change.

Van_0S · May 2016

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Just to add: making passive to proc Major Evasion on area of protection skills will be serious buff that will not reqire to change any other skills. If not with Restoring Light abilities, it can be added to Dawn Wrath passives (like Prism) to proc Major Evasion for X seconds upon activating Dawn Wrath skills. In the end it won't require to change core mechanic of skills but will make templar's passives very strong and synergizing with skills; no secret that right now templar's passives are worst, so such change will fix such thing like terrible defense, useless or weak skills and worst class passives.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please see this!!!

Why are you asking Gina to look at this?

Its Wr

bel, who is the lead combat design and its a known fact that he dislikes templar house or any thing that involves with a spear.

Zheg · May 2016

The problem is that templars want survivability and wrobel wants damage. We probably even interpret his 'house' mantra differently. I'd interpret that as if you step inside my runes and try to kill me, you'll have a difficult time doing so because I'm survivable (what it should be, obviously not what it's currently like). Wrobel probably thinks that should mean if you step inside my house I'm going to do lots of damage to you. All we can do is be jealous of how well balanced NBs are.

AfkNinja · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

The problem is that templars want survivability and wrobel wants damage. We probably even interpret his 'house' mantra differently. I'd interpret that as if you step inside my runes and try to kill me, you'll have a difficult time doing so because I'm survivable (what it should be, obviously not what it's currently like). Wrobel probably thinks that should mean if you step inside my house I'm going to do lots of damage to you. All we can do is be jealous of how well balanced NBs are.

This exactly. The problem with the "step in my house and I will hurt you" is that half or more of the classes in this game will not step in our house and just wreck us from outside it. And also once they are "in our house" it doesn't do the kind of dmg that would justify all of these nerfs and broken skills/passives.

Templar is a terribly designed class.