Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Lyar09

I don't speak for all so be aware this is just my opinion. I don't think there should be a morph of cresant sweep that scales with mighty. I main stamplar and I think the ultimate is fine as is. Even with it being magic damage I hit people extremely hard with it. I actually prefer it over DB because even with the new changes DB hits like a wet noodle. The only changes I would like to see is the reversal of purifying ritual, making jabs undodgable (like sweeps is), and fixing thaumaturge. The change to purify is horrid. Nobody cares about a weak dot that doesn't help overrall dps and also it is bs that we can't even purge mark unless it's spammed. As a stamplar, I can't afford to spam purify, especially with the new increased costs. I do think there should be more balance between magic and stam within the Templar class as most, if not all, abilities in dawn's wrath are utterly useless for stamplar. Also, rework the passives. Most stamplars are only utilizing 5, maybe 6, of the 12 Templar passives. That isn't balance. Just my input.

danno8

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I know not everyone is as pvp-focused, but after spending the past week theorycrafting what our templars will be running, and talking with other leads what the rest of the group should be wearing, I may have to ask our templars to run extended because the new morph of purify doing damage will pretty much ensure you permanently have fasalla's guile on your healers. This change is bad. This change is dumb. I want the old morph back for purify, and the damage can go to the extended morph that no one ever used.

I agree that I would prefer Purifying Ritual back. That said, have you tested this on the PTS? I thought that Fasalla's did not proc on DoT ticks?

It procs. On every tick. Snare is welcome. Damage dot is not.
Vamp bane only procs on initial hit. Go figure.

From 2.3.3 patch notes:

Fasalla’s Guile: This item set no longer procs its healing debuff from single-target damage over time effects. Area damage over time effects from abilities such as Caltrops will still trigger the effect.

That part definitely blows.

AriBoh

staracino_ESO wrote: »

So with the change to Negate Magic (silence cannot be broken free, for those who don't know), can we get Eclipse to be classified as a silence? So that you cannot break free and get full CC-immunity? It would be a large step towards making it not useless...
Edit: Unless it currently IS working like that on PTS... in that case, nice change!

Single target silence! YES! thats genius man! @Wrobel please consider this!

Zheg

AriBoh wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

So with the change to Negate Magic (silence cannot be broken free, for those who don't know), can we get Eclipse to be classified as a silence? So that you cannot break free and get full CC-immunity? It would be a large step towards making it not useless...
Edit: Unless it currently IS working like that on PTS... in that case, nice change!

Single target silence! YES! thats genius man! @Wrobel please consider this!

It would be OP as eff. Even with a 1 second duration, you could light attack animation cancel it on any non stam build and kill them with just that.

I'd much rather wrobel fix our current issues rather than give us something that every opponent will complain about and just result in the usual nerfs.

Ashamray

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

NBrookus

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

A magicka DK that also has newly poisoned weapons that apply multiple debuffs.

Purge/Purify roulette.

CP5

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Ashamray

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Even without this so called majority magDK has more freedom to dps and CC, while Templar is stucked in one direction.

AriBoh

Zheg wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

So with the change to Negate Magic (silence cannot be broken free, for those who don't know), can we get Eclipse to be classified as a silence? So that you cannot break free and get full CC-immunity? It would be a large step towards making it not useless...
Edit: Unless it currently IS working like that on PTS... in that case, nice change!

Single target silence! YES! thats genius man! @Wrobel please consider this!

It would be OP as eff. Even with a 1 second duration, you could light attack animation cancel it on any non stam build and kill them with just that.

I'd much rather wrobel fix our current issues rather than give us something that every opponent will complain about and just result in the usual nerfs.

If we can only cast one (so any other we cast makes the other fall off like one of the eclipse morphs already) and maybe give them an immunity afterwards for say 6 seconds.

Cinbri

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

How about majority of range skills ignored by one dk skill... Obviously balanced.

Zheg

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Do you realize how silly this sounds when the only offensive skill a magplar could use is puncturing sweep against a DK with wings? DF? Javelin? Vamps bane? Check. All reflected back in your face.

If it's ok for a DK to counter a magplar, why is it not ok for the reverse?

Joy_Division

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

A magicka DK spamming Burning Embers will wreck a templar spamming Purifying Ritual. To say nothing that a DK already counters the templar ranged skills with Reflective Scales.

dodgehopper_ESO

MokiDono wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

sorry but I prefer to PVP so grinding out bone Shield doing pve in dungeons is not really an option and is pretty boring in my opinion. especially when we have an ability right there in the spear tree that is pretty worthless and that's both morphs..change both morphs into something that gives Dawnbreaker a run for its money. I Run spear because I like to use a spear and would like to see the ultimate become more worthwhile. I actually prefer the animation - Dawnbreaker anyway.

You do realize that pve players already have to grind boring pvp mindlessly, to get certain abilites. Not to mention that it requires waaay more time to get for example magicka detonation, or caltrops. So... we could ask for those kinda class abilites also, because we don't feel like grinding.

I don't know if that's true anymore. I've not had the time I use to have to pvp, but I can tell you that earning alliance rank is SO EASY now. Undaunted on the other hand is a major pain in the buttocks, particularly for those of us whose characters already did all the dungeon/vet versions BEFORE they changed the Undaunted system. I'll be honest I'm just not that interested in repeating those missions even though I really should for my characters, PURELY TO LEVEL UP THAT SKILL LINE TO 10. Undaunted is a very good skill to level but please don't tell me that its easier than the PVP skills.

potirondb16_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

Problem is, stamplar hits incredibly hard in pvp. You can stack weapon damage and still have good regen and stam. My Stamplar has 21k health, 31k stamina, 4k weapon damage and 2100 stam regen. I already hit hard. I see a lot of other stamplars who hit really hard too. So they would need be careful with upping skill/class damage

Actually I kind of think that you were double dipping in thraumaturge and mighty for most of your skill which is not happening currently on the pts, it did lower how stamplar are doing dps atm which mean we didn't got buff maybe a little but I honnestly achieve mostly the same number on pts as I did on live 26-28k on mamouth

dodgehopper_ESO

Zheg wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Do you realize how silly this sounds when the only offensive skill a magplar could use is puncturing sweep against a DK with wings? DF? Javelin? Vamps bane? Check. All reflected back in your face.

If it's ok for a DK to counter a magplar, why is it not ok for the reverse?

One ought to mention how the double reflect removal nerfed an already HORRIBLE skill, Eclipse. Honestly, ZOS should just turn it into some kind of black bubble around self that reflects things back, and call it a day. That skill is done, and I can't imagine why ANYONE would use it. Use a real cc, or defensive posture, hell use both if you must.

timidobserver

Zheg wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

It procs. On every tick. Snare is welcome. Damage dot is not.
Vamp bane only procs on initial hit. Go figure.

Well that is terrible.

Yep. We're going to need to put our healers on extended ritual because of this crap. I've tried healing over the past week with just using channeled focus, and it's mostly not viable. I'm perpetually recasting it almost every 2-5 seconds because of how mobile we try to be during fights. Next patch when you can't heal through LoS (which is fine as a stand-alone change), you will need to re-position yourself even more, so I'd anticipate everyone needing to recast focus that much more because the combat team is devoted to this "house" mantra at the expense of realistic game-play. There are two scenarios where you can stand in your 'house' to heal.

1. PVP - standing behind a wall/altar/box/above the fight healing through LoS, something ZOS doesn't want us doing and is stopping next patch
2. PVE - easy dungeons where it doesn't even matter whether or not your house is up because the content is faceroll. Every challenging piece of content I've come across requires you to be mobile.

Force healers to be incredibly mobile to stay alive and to keep allies alive, gut their main capacity to not be permarooted and snared with the rapids nerf, finish the job by nerfing the cleanse of their one remaining tool from 5 to 2 that let them take a single step every cast before being bombarded/talons again. @Wrobel there are seriously contradicting balance visions happening; they need to be addressed. Is the intention of channeled focus really to recast it every 4 seconds? Really? Because that's typically how I have to build it into my rotation if I want to keep it up during most fights. Terrible.

As far as I can tell, Wrobel went around and chimed in on balance threads that they have given priority like Stam Sorcs, Incapacitating Strike, and Bracing. This leads me to believe that they are happy with their changes to Purifying Ritual and we likely won't see any additional changes to it. The most that you could potentially expect is ensuring that Ritual of Retribution isn't triggering Fasallas, but I wouldn't even expect that much.

dodgehopper_ESO

cpuScientist wrote: »

Also now flurry seems like the better option by a good buy over jabs. A monster heal at the end. Nothing really beats healing through damage. Can stamplars get some kind of healing component to jabs? On last hit even something?

I've been wishing for this as well.

timidobserver

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Also now flurry seems like the better option by a good buy over jabs. A monster heal at the end. Nothing really beats healing through damage. Can stamplars get some kind of healing component to jabs? On last hit even something?

I've been wishing for this as well.

I would be okay with them making the heal a part of the base skill and adding some other benefit to puncturing sweep.

dodgehopper_ESO

NBrookus wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

A magicka DK that also has newly poisoned weapons that apply multiple debuffs.

Purge/Purify roulette.

It will make fights with NB and DK hell, and honestly the right kind of Sorc will be brutal to deal with as well. I agree with what other posters have said that it should be 3-4 cleanses if they want to nerf the number, but 2 is just bad. Everyone is going to swap to Efficient Purge, which is a real shame. One has to realize that what makes Efficient Purge good is that it instantly cleanses the whole vicinity. The Self Cleanse of Purifying was meant to keep the healer rocking and oh by the way other people can synergize it if they want to. Synergies though are crap, and if they drop it to 2, I think it should work more like Efficient Purge, cleansing everyone, otherwise we have yet again an out of class skill that is way better than the Templar one. Food for thought.

maxjapank

danno8 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I know not everyone is as pvp-focused, but after spending the past week theorycrafting what our templars will be running, and talking with other leads what the rest of the group should be wearing, I may have to ask our templars to run extended because the new morph of purify doing damage will pretty much ensure you permanently have fasalla's guile on your healers. This change is bad. This change is dumb. I want the old morph back for purify, and the damage can go to the extended morph that no one ever used.

I agree that I would prefer Purifying Ritual back. That said, have you tested this on the PTS? I thought that Fasalla's did not proc on DoT ticks?

It procs. On every tick. Snare is welcome. Damage dot is not.
Vamp bane only procs on initial hit. Go figure.

From 2.3.3 patch notes:

Fasalla’s Guile: This item set no longer procs its healing debuff from single-target damage over time effects. Area damage over time effects from abilities such as Caltrops will still trigger the effect.

That part definitely blows.

Well...that explains why. It's a bit irritating, though. I was greatly looking forward to the snare, but when we tested it and saw that it procs Fasalla on every tick, we knew we would have to run Extended. And that's what we will do. But I'm 100% sure that the changes to Purifying were meant to be a buff to Templars, especially in pvp. And yet, now, no one is going to use it. So why go forth with this change?

I'm fine with it only removing 2 negative effects. And I really, really love the snare. But the ground dot/damage just kills it. It kills you. So just remove that component, and you will see lots of Templars using the skill instead of none.

dodgehopper_ESO

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Because Roots/Reflects are so terrible versus Magplars...

Our blazing shield is not good except for a very niche build.
Our Eclipse is worthless versus a DK now.
They reflect all ranged attacks.
They can permanently root a Templar, making it impossible to target with the one skill that can actually hit a MagDK.
But the DOTS are what makes the battle unfair between the two...

I suggest you rethink that.

AfkNinja

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Because Roots/Reflects are so terrible versus Magplars...

Our blazing shield is not good except for a very niche build.
Our Eclipse is worthless versus a DK now.
They reflect all ranged attacks.
They can permanently root a Templar, making it impossible to target with the one skill that can actually hit a MagDK.
But the DOTS are what makes the battle unfair between the two...

I suggest you rethink that.

ZOS: "Templar needs some buffs, lets add snare and a DOT to Ritual but all that plus 5 purges is too much, lets cut it to 2."

Actual: Procs Fasallas, nerfed cleanse by a TON and all in all a huge nerf. No one uses new skill.

ZOS: "Everyone loves the new Extended Ritual!" -_-

They make everything they touch on Templar worse, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Zheg

AfkNinja wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Because Roots/Reflects are so terrible versus Magplars...

Our blazing shield is not good except for a very niche build.
Our Eclipse is worthless versus a DK now.
They reflect all ranged attacks.
They can permanently root a Templar, making it impossible to target with the one skill that can actually hit a MagDK.
But the DOTS are what makes the battle unfair between the two...

I suggest you rethink that.

ZOS: "Templar needs some buffs, lets add snare and a DOT to Ritual but all that plus 5 purges is too much, lets cut it to 2."

Actual: Procs Fasallas, nerfed cleanse by a TON and all in all a huge nerf. No one uses new skill.

ZOS: "Everyone loves the new Extended Ritual!" -_-

They make everything they touch on Templar worse, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I giggled because it's true xD

AfkNinja

Zheg wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I've just realized that making Purifying Ritual to remove only 2 debuffs will turn fight with magDK into a hell. It's already annoying.

Or magicka dk's won't have a majority of their sustain dps ignored by one skill?

Because Roots/Reflects are so terrible versus Magplars...

Our blazing shield is not good except for a very niche build.
Our Eclipse is worthless versus a DK now.
They reflect all ranged attacks.
They can permanently root a Templar, making it impossible to target with the one skill that can actually hit a MagDK.
But the DOTS are what makes the battle unfair between the two...

I suggest you rethink that.

ZOS: "Templar needs some buffs, lets add snare and a DOT to Ritual but all that plus 5 purges is too much, lets cut it to 2."

Actual: Procs Fasallas, nerfed cleanse by a TON and all in all a huge nerf. No one uses new skill.

ZOS: "Everyone loves the new Extended Ritual!" -_-

They make everything they touch on Templar worse, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I giggled because it's true xD

ZOS questions: "How do we get them to use Extended Ritual?"

Answer: "Destroy Purifying Ritual"

XD

cpuScientist

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Problem is, stamplar hits incredibly hard in pvp. You can stack weapon damage and still have good regen and stam. My Stamplar has 21k health, 31k stamina, 4k weapon damage and 2100 stam regen. I already hit hard. I see a lot of other stamplars who hit really hard too. So they would need be careful with upping skill/class damage

Actually I kind of think that you were double dipping in thraumaturge and mighty for most of your skill which is not happening currently on the pts, it did lower how stamplar are doing dps atm which mean we didn't got buff maybe a little but I honnestly achieve mostly the same number on pts as I did on live 26-28k on mamouth

Can you give me a quick soec of your gear and skills and the like. I am stuck at 20

GoodOlPinkly

Arethan09 wrote: »

Hello ZOS

The templar healing abilities need definitly a nerf in PvP

I can not talk about PvE but in PvP their healing capability makes their Damage output and survivability unbalanced.

LolL2p

Pomaikai

Honestly, I think @Wroebel will continue to nerf and undermine the Templar class until he either convinces the higher ups to discontinue the class, or it dies by attrition due to so many people abandoning the class in disgust.

Radburn

I am really looking forward to testing out Ritual of Retribution which sounds amazing. I do think they should have replaced extended Ritual instead of Purifying Ritual, however I think I understand why they made the decision to remove Purifying. Cleansing Ritual was never meant to be a spam skill and having a morph remove 5 negative effects made it so. This is another one we have to eat as we move forward and place faith in the combat team to make Templar skills more diverse and better than one trick ponies.

I believe my Templar will hold ground now with Ritual of Retribution; We have many skills that provide DoT which will work very well within the 12m radius. Players who enter the house of pain will have to deal with the snare and dot, but thats not all. Puncturing sweep (burning light), blazing spears (Stun + DoT + Burning light) and possibly vampires bane/entropy if you choose -Tell me that will not hurt. Oh yeah, stay within your house and you also get 25% healing along with the HoT. Almost forgot about it removing 2 negative effects. That is a lot of goodness in one skill.

AfkNinja

Radburn wrote: »

Cleansing Ritual was never meant to be a spam skill and having a morph remove 5 negative effects made it so.

Nerfing it from 5 purges to 2 makes it LESS SPAMMY? WHAT?

The snare is nice, the dmg is pathetic. Make no mistake, this was a massive overall nerf.

GoodOlPinkly

Radburn wrote: »

I am really looking forward to testing out Ritual of Retribution which sounds amazing. I do think they should have replaced extended Ritual instead of Purifying Ritual, however I think I understand why they made the decision to remove Purifying. Cleansing Ritual was never meant to be a spam skill and having a morph remove 5 negative effects made it so. This is another one we have to eat as we move forward and place faith in the combat team to make Templar skills more diverse and better than one trick ponies.

I believe my Templar will hold ground now with Ritual of Retribution; We have many skills that provide DoT which will work very well within the 12m radius. Players who enter the house of pain will have to deal with the snare and dot, but thats not all. Puncturing sweep (burning light), blazing spears (Stun + DoT + Burning light) and possibly vampires bane/entropy if you choose -Tell me that will not hurt. Oh yeah, stay within your house and you also get 25% healing along with the HoT. Almost forgot about it removing 2 negative effects. That is a lot of goodness in one skill.

Dude the new ritual barely even out damages most people's health recovery -.-