Veteran Maelstrom Arena Weapons in DB

code65536 · May 2016

@Artis, "I can't convince you, obviously, you made up your mind long time before this thread was created."

I'll just leave it at that. You have a fundamentally different idea of what fun and fairness looks like, and as long as you hold those ideas, we are wasting keystrokes and time. But I suspect that you'll find that the vast majority of players do not share your point of view.

Artis · May 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Artis to be fair, this is a video game. The goal of the game for developers is to create something fun and challenging that players love to enjoy. As it is Maelstrom is NOT enjoyable content, I personally do not know a single individual who would want to run this content once they have obtained these items. So they already failed on the fun part. Now if we take a look at the rewards the situations gets even more grim. I have now 4+ of EVERY SINGLE stam weapon in the game in BOTH precise and sharpened traits. I also have the same for Resto and Lightning Staves. I have 2 Ice staves one precise 1 sharpened and exactly 1 maestrom precise fire staff....How is it that I have a disproportionately larger amount of stam weapons drop than magicka? It isnt fair it isnt fun it isnt worth it, but guess what I am in CSH and I often run with core. You CANNOT be on core if you do not run the arena in order to acquire it for the endgame raiding, it is a guild rule and a good rule since vMA staff offers the highest DPS. a token system would alleviate all of these issues and in my case I DO need the staff if I want to be a part of an elite group of players...so your theory doesnt quite work

For what it's worth I'm one of them. I've been running it purely because I enjoy it a lot. It's challenging, it's not trivial, you always have room for improvement: trying to run it with fewer deaths than before, trying to run first N rounds without deaths consistently, getting a no-death run, improving the time/score. You know at least one person now.

Tbh ok you like your guild the way it is, but you can always start your own group. Wasn't there a person in this thread who completed vMoL without master weps and earlier than you guys did? My theory works, you just for some reason accepted the rule that only people with master weps are allowed to run vmol. Which is not something I judge - your guild has its own rules.

code65536 wrote: »

@Artis, "I can't convince you, obviously, you made up your mind long time before this thread was created."

I'll just leave it at that. You have a fundamentally different idea of what fun and fairness looks like, and as long as you hold those ideas, we are wasting keystrokes and time. But I suspect that you'll find that the vast majority of players do not share your point of view.

See above why I think vMA is fun. Sure, you think fun is delves in Glenumbra where you one shot everything - then we have fundamentally different ideas. About fairness - I explained why it's fair and hopefully you read and understood how RNG works (my reply to your 1st and 200th runs example).

I did not make up my mind. I have my opinion but it's open to change. I just don't see your point. It looks like you just want it to be easily accessible to everyone. I don't understand why. I'm trying - that's why I'm having this dialogue - but I just don't understand.

I think I explained my position and so far I truly believe that it's a good thing and if the vast majority disagrees with me - they simply don't know what's better for them. Yes, having everything is not better.

Anyways, be glad: you won and the drop rate will be increased and everything. I just don't get it why there can't be 1 item that is hard to get.

So yeah, if you decide to stop being defensive and just try to explain normally and take into account my point - feel free to say more. I am still trying to understand why it's so bad to have a rare item.

code65536 · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

See above why I think vMA is fun. Sure, you think fun is delves in Glenumbra where you one shot everything - then we have fundamentally different ideas.

We can't have this conversation if you insist on bringing up straw men and putting words in my mouth that I never uttered. You did so earlier with the comments about difficulty nerfing. I'm not going to waste my time arguing this kind of nonsense.

Artis wrote: »

About fairness - I explained why it's fair and hopefully you read and understood how RNG works (my reply to your 1st and 200th runs example).

I know exactly how RNG works. I know exactly what luck is. And I still stand by my point: luck is fine when there is no skill or effort involved, but in endeavors where people put in effort with the expectation that their effort will earn something, luck is wholly unfair and inappropriate. Again, no reasonable person would call it fair if their employer rolled dice to determine if they should get paid at the end of the week.

Also, even if it's a boss rolling dice to decide if you're paid or not.. If you signed a contract that allows him to do that - it is fair. You admitted it will be happening. Same here - if you go to vMA, you signed the contract. You know the dice will be rolled. If you don't like it - don't sign the contract, go do some other content. It's just 1 piece and 1 dungeon.

If I had a boss that did something like that, I'd toss that contract in the trash and quit. If I had known that clause in the contract, I probably wouldn't have joined that company in the first place. How many people would even start playing this game if they're told that the end-game is full of RNG nonsense like this where effort, skill, and performance are potentially rewarded with snubs? It's not just vMA. How many people have grinded hundreds of Wrothgar dailies on multiple characters, never to get their robust Briarheart jewelry set? And how many people have tossed this proverbial contract in the trash and left the game? No, it's not fair, and just because "we agreed to it" doesn't make it fair. If you're so concerned about the health of the game as you claim to be, you'd be worried at the growing chorus of frustration over things like this and the number of people who are saying, "I never agreed to this" by leaving the game.

One of the core principles of a MMO is progression. It's the feeling that, as you do things in the MMO, your character is earning progress. And gear is part of that progress. And to frustrate people who by all rights have earned that gear--those people who have their no-deaths, who have had their hundreds of runs--is to break this fundamental aspect of a MMO. And if you care about the health of the game, then you should recognize just how serious of an issue this is.

It looks like you just want it to be easily accessible to everyone. I don't understand why. I'm trying - that's why I'm having this dialogue - but I just don't understand.

If I wanted it easily accessible to everyone, I'd be calling for weapons to drop in nMA. As I've stated over and over ad nauseaum, what I and others want is a fair loot system that is not guarded by luck. Because, despite however much you think otherwise, LUCK IS NOT FAIR in this context.

And I'm saying that even though I've actually been lucky in vMA. I have the weapons that I want, and, at this point, I only want more so that I don't have to share them between characters. But is it fair that, by some stroke of luck, I've gotten the weapons that I want while there are people with better skill and performance who still haven't gotten them? Absolutely not.

I just don't get it why there can't be 1 item that is hard to get. ... I am still trying to understand why it's so bad to have a rare item.

It already is hard to get. And it is a rare item. I feel like a broken record by now. Step outside of your bubble and look at how few people can even complete vMA. It is already hard to get and rare by the simple merit that the vast, vast majority of the player base can't even complete the content to get it. And that's okay. I'm perfectly fine with that, and at no point have I ever advocated a lowering of content difficulty or a dropping of the weapon in nMA. It is rare, and it will remain rare, with skill as the primary gatekeeper of rarity. The problem that needs addressing at this point is the fairness of distribution--luck, the secondary gatekeeper. Reducing or even eliminating the importance of luck won't affect the rarity appreciably because the item is still locked behind a level of skill that most players lack, but it would make the loot more fair. And, once again, we're back to our central point of disagreement: luck is not fair.

So, I'll go back to my original statement: You have a fundamentally different idea of what fairness is. And as long as you see absolutely nothing wrong with this cancerous luck-based loot system for items that should feel earned, then we will forever remain at odds. If you still think that luck is a good way to distribute reward in this sort of context, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, and I will no longer waste any more keystrokes on this.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Artis to be fair, this is a video game. The goal of the game for developers is to create something fun and challenging that players love to enjoy. As it is Maelstrom is NOT enjoyable content, I personally do not know a single individual who would want to run this content once they have obtained these items. So they already failed on the fun part. Now if we take a look at the rewards the situations gets even more grim. I have now 4+ of EVERY SINGLE stam weapon in the game in BOTH precise and sharpened traits. I also have the same for Resto and Lightning Staves. I have 2 Ice staves one precise 1 sharpened and exactly 1 maestrom precise fire staff....How is it that I have a disproportionately larger amount of stam weapons drop than magicka? It isnt fair it isnt fun it isnt worth it, but guess what I am in CSH and I often run with core. You CANNOT be on core if you do not run the arena in order to acquire it for the endgame raiding, it is a guild rule and a good rule since vMA staff offers the highest DPS. a token system would alleviate all of these issues and in my case I DO need the staff if I want to be a part of an elite group of players...so your theory doesnt quite work

For what it's worth I'm one of them. I've been running it purely because I enjoy it a lot. It's challenging, it's not trivial, you always have room for improvement: trying to run it with fewer deaths than before, trying to run first N rounds without deaths consistently, getting a no-death run, improving the time/score. You know at least one person now.

Tbh ok you like your guild the way it is, but you can always start your own group. Wasn't there a person in this thread who completed vMoL without master weps and earlier than you guys did? My theory works, you just for some reason accepted the rule that only people with master weps are allowed to run vmol. Which is not something I judge - your guild has its own rules.

code65536 wrote: »

@Artis, "I can't convince you, obviously, you made up your mind long time before this thread was created."

I'll just leave it at that. You have a fundamentally different idea of what fun and fairness looks like, and as long as you hold those ideas, we are wasting keystrokes and time. But I suspect that you'll find that the vast majority of players do not share your point of view.

See above why I think vMA is fun. Sure, you think fun is delves in Glenumbra where you one shot everything - then we have fundamentally different ideas. About fairness - I explained why it's fair and hopefully you read and understood how RNG works (my reply to your 1st and 200th runs example).

I did not make up my mind. I have my opinion but it's open to change. I just don't see your point. It looks like you just want it to be easily accessible to everyone. I don't understand why. I'm trying - that's why I'm having this dialogue - but I just don't understand.

I think I explained my position and so far I truly believe that it's a good thing and if the vast majority disagrees with me - they simply don't know what's better for them. Yes, having everything is not better.

Anyways, be glad: you won and the drop rate will be increased and everything. I just don't get it why there can't be 1 item that is hard to get.

So yeah, if you decide to stop being defensive and just try to explain normally and take into account my point - feel free to say more. I am still trying to understand why it's so bad to have a rare item.

No one said that it is impossible to complete content without it...but to get the highest scores you need the best equipment and thus to be in a top notch competitive guild you need the weapons. If you really enjoy that content I am happy for you, but you are a very very very small minority. Additionally you probably enjoy it because you are not trying it on a templar, which is a lot less enjoyable I guarantee you that.

Artis · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

but in endeavors where people put in effort with the expectation that their effort will earn something, luck is wholly unfair and inappropriate. Again, no reasonable person would call it fair if their employer rolled dice to determine if they should get paid at the end of the week.

Also, even if it's a boss rolling dice to decide if you're paid or not.. If you signed a contract that allows him to do that - it is fair. You admitted it will be happening. Same here - if you go to vMA, you signed the contract. You know the dice will be rolled. If you don't like it - don't sign the contract, go do some other content. It's just 1 piece and 1 dungeon.

If I had a boss that did something like that, I'd toss that contract in the trash and quit. If I had known that clause in the contract, I probably wouldn't have joined that company in the first place. How many people would even start playing this game if they're told that the end-game is full of RNG nonsense like this where effort, skill, and performance are potentially rewarded with snubs? It's not just vMA. How many people have grinded hundreds of Wrothgar dailies on multiple characters, never to get their robust Briarheart jewelry set? And how many people have tossed this proverbial contract in the trash and left the game? No, it's not fair, and just because "we agreed to it" doesn't make it fair. If you're so concerned about the health of the game as you claim to be, you'd be worried at the growing chorus of frustration over things like this and the number of people who are saying, "I never agreed to this" by leaving the game.

One of the core principles of a MMO is progression. It's the feeling that, as you do things in the MMO, your character is earning progress. And gear is part of that progress. And to frustrate people who by all rights have earned that gear--those people who have their no-deaths, who have had their hundreds of runs--is to break this fundamental aspect of a MMO. And if you care about the health of the game, then you should recognize just how serious of an issue this is.

That's exactly my point. You don't need to sign the contract. If you don't like something - do not go to vMA. Problem solved. You're welcome. You know that there's RNG there, so don't go there. And if you go - don't complain. If you don't like the contract - don't sign it and if you signed don't complain that your boss fulfills his obligations according to the contract.

And please, people new this game is about RNG a month after release tops. There were so many reviews, videos, articles etc. As for people who left because of the loot. Well, they already left. The loot system was like that since release, we saw it in all trials and in vDSA. Whoever didn't like it - left. Others "signed the contract" and should not complain. No one forces them to do anything in-game. They can do whatever is fun for them if running vMA is not fun.

Now wrothgar dailies is putting effort? Please. You put way more time and effort in fishing or checking every container. And you're saying RNG is fine there. And how do you decide in which activity you can earn something or not? I gave you an example with emperor. I can put a lot of effort into that and still not guaranteed to get the achievement. Is this fair?

PLease. progress? You have all other items you can get. You are talking about ONE ITEM. You can use another weapon until you get this one. Why don't you complain about drop rate in vicp. I ran that many times and got nothing. Just got out of two more runs. And still don't complain. I just don't get it why when people don't like something they think they are entitled to change. Yet, when I don't like something - I don't expect all my wants to be met.

If I wanted it easily accessible to everyone, I'd be calling for weapons to drop in nMA. As I've stated over and over ad nauseaum, what I and others want is a fair loot system that is not guarded by luck. Because, despite however much you think otherwise, LUCK IS NOT FAIR in this context.

Give me an example of such system and explain how it won't grant weapons to everyone who can complete vMA. Luck is fair - everyone is equal in the face of luck. Equality of opportunity is there. Why do you think that the equality of outcome is different. As in you put effort - you get weapons. That's BS tbh. Especially in the game where dungeons do not have cooldowns. Even in wow we had RNG.

The only thing I agree with is that it sucks that you can get, say, defending destro staff. RNG sucks only because you can get *** traits. Other than that - it's fine. Why not?

Because you think somebody earns something? in game? Then if you create this precedent, what's next? Fishing? Emperor? Please, I'd like that. Time = effort. SKill= time to learn =effort too?

But see, you aren't supposed to get stuff just cuz you put effort. Reminds me of those friendzone guys who don't get that a girl is not a machine where you put some stuff in and get her physical attracted in return.
See, imagine you live in that world. You came to kill the boss, you loot whatever he had with him. If he left his sharpened staff at home - well that's what it is. It's not your fault, it's not that you deserve it or don't deserve it. There are factors that are not under your control. In game with no cooldowns these factors are represented by RNG.

Luck does take place in real world and why shouldn't it be in game? It's only due to luck whether boss takes a sharpened inferno staff or a defending bow when he's leaving home to go to job and expects you to complete other rounds and reach him.

It already is hard to get. And it is a rare item. I feel like a broken record by now. Step outside of your bubble and look at how few people can even complete vMA. It is already hard to get and rare by the simple merit that the vast, vast majority of the player base can't even complete the content to get it. And that's okay. I'm perfectly fine with that, and at no point have I ever advocated a lowering of difficulty or a dropping of the weapon in nMA. It is rare, and it will remain rare. The problem that needs addressing at this point is the fairness of distribution. And, once again, we're back to our central point of disagreement: luck is not fair.

It is fair though. Look at the bigger picture. Everyone is in the same condition. And in this context it is fair. You should understand that when you get a stam wep while playing a magicka build there's a stam build who got a magicka wep. So you aren't behind. When I run vicp and don't get any pieces of what I want - I clearly understand that, so I don't care. It's really good for your nervous system, try it

No one said that it is impossible to complete content without it...but to get the highest scores you need the best equipment and thus to be in a top notch competitive guild you need the weapons. If you really enjoy that content I am happy for you, but you are a very very very small minority. Additionally you probably enjoy it because you are not trying it on a templar, which is a lot less enjoyable I guarantee you that.

Yeah, but you have infinite time for that. No one is going to delete leaderboards. You can get top score later. And what not to enjoy? It has a learning curve, it's not easy, it requires your attention. What's fun and enjoyable then? Facerolling spindleclutch? I don't get it, sorry

Decado · May 2016

I'm so bored of arguing with you, I've already explained I dislike running vMA however I have to to try and get the weapon to push my DPS as much as possible so I'm not letting my group down,

Yes I've completed vMoL without the weapons but if we want to push quicker and faster times we need the whole group putting in 100% effort and me saying sorry guys I can't run maelstrom as I don't enjoy it isn't putting in the effort it is, atleast atm I can say I'm running it twice a day I'm actively trying to get the weapons but RNG is screwing me, through no fault of my own.

I honestly hope zos would listen to the overwhelming responses in the opposite opinion rather than the tiny amount of people like you.

potirondb16_ESO · May 2016

@Artis , I do understand the mathematical logic of your argumentation because honest to say random is random and if that random is purely random then random is fair no matter how bad it may let you feel about it.

That's the part of your opinion that I can understand. The part I don't like, is how you justify that system by simply admitting he is the current one. I mean personnal opinion are alright, you can agree with that system and believe things need to be rerun again and again in order to access to some of the ''better'' content. Which once again I'm not totally against. Things would be too easy if one run could get you at the very end of everything gearwise. But one of the aspect that bugs me is more design related that it is RNG related.

Most player who complain about Maestrom Weapon are actually at that stage where they have run over 20 runs of ICP and WGT but never completed any of the set they wanted and/or have actually some of them with really bad traits. They also have completed vMA a couple or many time and never got the weapon they wanted, and still they are at the top of their progression 450 to 500 cp but still they are unable to be competitve in vMoL and probably won't be in Sactum because while the system give an equal chance to everyone, it's not a system that reward player who want to progress.

That's the issue with the RNG as it is right now, loot table are way to big, randomisation is *** at best, and having the capcity to catch on to the other player if lady luck hasn't been on our side is almost inexistant. So it is the same for everyone, yes, does lady luck favorise everyone equally ask to the lottery winner

potirondb16_ESO · May 2016

Loll I just tough about it, next content is actually going to be oriented toward 160 cp

I would love to see a full raid of 160 cp going into VMOL

.

Artis · May 2016

Yes I've completed vMoL without the weapons but if we want to push quicker and faster times we need the whole group putting in 100% effort and me saying sorry guys I can't run maelstrom as I don't enjoy it isn't putting in the effort it is, atleast atm I can say I'm running it twice a day I'm actively trying to get the weapons but RNG is screwing me, through no fault of my own.

I honestly hope zos would listen to the overwhelming responses in the opposite opinion rather than the tiny amount of people like you.

No one is forcing you to go to vmol either. Or to go with the group that will judge you for not having weapons. If you want to go there because you like competing, then you'll run vMA for leaderboards anyway, won't you?

And yes of course they will listen to majority that keeps ruining this game since its release. First vr -nerf, then dungeon nerf, then another one, now this and vet wgt, icp, coa nerf. Etc.

Guess you are better than me and are entitled to your opinion being listened to over mine, because you are more valuable and your money is more valuable than my money.

Most player who complain about Maestrom Weapon are actually at that stage where they have run over 20 runs of ICP and WGT but never completed any of the set they wanted and/or have actually some of them with really bad traits. They also have completed vMA a couple or many time and never got the weapon they wanted, and still they are at the top of their progression 450 to 500 cp but still they are unable to be competitve in vMoL and probably won't be in Sactum because while the system give an equal chance to everyone, it's not a system that reward player who want to progress.

I'm one of these players. 0 sets from icp or wgt, can't go to vmol etc. But the thing is, most guilds don't even go to vmol. And the ones that go have their own roster/core group and won't take me or those other players anyways, with or without weapons. And even if they get weapons they won't be competitive if they didn't complete now without weps, like others did.

And haha yeah. Everyone will be fine in SO. 160cp gear, let's hope vmol stays as difficult as it is (if it is lol). I didn't run it but I hope to run an original version, not the nerfed one.

andryuhav · May 2016

I say buff those Maelstrom weapons!

code65536 · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

That's exactly my point. You don't need to sign the contract. If you don't like something - do not go to vMA. Problem solved. You're welcome. You know that there's RNG there, so don't go there. And if you go - don't complain. If you don't like the contract - don't sign it and if you signed don't complain that your boss fulfills his obligations according to the contract.

So you're telling people that if they don't like the loot system in vMA, vMoL (lol, Alkosh ice staff?), vICP, vWGT, Wrothgar dailies and pretty much every other part of ESO, that they should just stop and... quit? Guess what? That's exactly what people have been doing: getting fed up with the loot system (not just in vMA, but everywhere in this game) and leaving.

Artis wrote: »

They can do whatever is fun for them if running vMA is not fun.

Like what? What part of the ESO endgame isn't plagued by this cancerous loot system?

Artis wrote: »

I gave you an example with emperor. I can put a lot of effort into that and still not guaranteed to get the achievement. Is this fair?

Actually, that is fair, because you're not battling luck. You're battling other players, whether its the opposing faction getting in the way of your emp keeps or your own faction in the way of getting them to support your emp push (e.g., if you've been an arse and have few friends in your faction, you might find it hard to get that support needed for your push). You're not battling dice rolls, and if you fail to get emp, it means that you haven't put in enough effort to overcome the obstacles. But battling RNG? It's possible to be someone like Function who runs it hundreds of times, get hundreds of weapons, but still not the one he actually wants because luck. Luck rewards... luck. Luck doesn't reward merit, skill or effort.

Artis wrote: »

PLease. progress? You have all other items you can get. You are talking about ONE ITEM. You can use another weapon until you get this one. Why don't you complain about drop rate in vicp. I ran that many times and got nothing. Just got out of two more runs.

Well, for someone like hedna, he has everything. All he's missing now is his sharpened inferno staff and his Scathing set. He has pretty much everything else including capped CP. Aside from getting these two things, how else is he going to further progress? You can ask him how his vICP runs are going, but judging from the fact that he still does vICP farm runs, I think he's getting screwed by RNG there, too.

And if this thread was about the RNG loot system in general, you bet I'd be complaining about vICP and vWGT. About how, after over a hundred runs of vICP, I still have only one piece of divines Scathing. Or how after hundreds of runs of vWGT, I still don't have divines SPC shoes.

Artis wrote: »

And still don't complain. I just don't get it why when people don't like something they think they are entitled to change. Yet, when I don't like something - I don't expect all my wants to be met.

Some of us would rather see change than to keep bending over and taking it. You may be able to brush it off, say, "oh well, I don't care". But most people aren't masochists. Kudos to you for continuing to take it; many people would get disillusioned and leave.

Artis wrote: »

Give me an example of such system and explain how it won't grant weapons to everyone who can complete vMA.

And what's so wrong with that? I can't understand why are you are so hell-bent opposed to the idea that if someone is good enough to complete vMA consistently and farm it, that they deserve to be guaranteed the weapon of their choice after a certain number of runs? Why in bloody blazes do you think that's somehow bad for the health of the game? The number of people who can beat vMA consistently is already tiny. Why must there be a secondary filter of luck that is applied after the primary filter of being-able-to-complete-vMA? It makes absolutely no sense, except to satisfy this perverse notion you hold about the ideal rarity of this item.

byrom101b16_ESO · May 2016

The best way to deal with this would be to award 1 Gold vMA Token for being on the leaderboard and have 15 tokens allow you to buy any one weapon from a shopping list of all possible combinations of weapon and trait in Gold from the little guy at the entrance.

Leave the RNG as it is going to be.

Dunkmeister · May 2016

I think I feel especially frustrated by vMA drops because it's solo content. Id much rather farm these with a friend. Yet, because I really want the sharpened staff, I choose to keep grinding for it. I dont think a token system would hurt here.

Roymachine · May 2016

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The best way to deal with this would be to award 1 Gold vMA Token for being on the leaderboard and have 15 tokens allow you to buy any one weapon from a shopping list of all possible combinations of weapon and trait in Gold from the little guy at the entrance.

Leave the RNG as it is going to be.

What you are suggesting is being nearly 4 months on the leaderboard and only then getting the weapon you want.

Barrier to entry should not be 'Did I get lucky this run?' It should be a show of accomplishment. It should be "I am wearing this gear because I was able to accomplish the tasks required to get it." People getting multiple weapons they wanted in <10 runs should not be abnormal. There shouldn't be people running it several hundred times and not getting what they want and then quitting the game because of it. The loot table is too large for this sort of thing.

Decado · May 2016

So you answer is just if you dislike something don't do it?

I never said I disliked vMoL Infact I had a great time in there and my first completion felt amazing, my group have never once judged me for it, I still run with them, it is me however who feels they are letting the group down, I could add another 1/2k on top of my DPS just by simply changing my weapons.

And no I no longer run vMA for leaderboards because I hate the place, I run twice daily and I don't run to be competitive anymore I take a relaxed I don't give a *** attitude towards it, vMA leaderboards mean less than nothing to me, this is a MMO I care about group content not solo content they hide BiS weapons behind

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

What would be great is if they made the vulnerability poison debuff work only for the person applying the debuff. This would make non VMA staff competitive.

rokrdt05 · May 2016

InfaM · May 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Let's face it, everyone is running maelstrom arena for the weapons, with all the differents weapons and traits, it's already a struggle to find the weapon we're aiming for, add to that the 50% drop rate on the last chest and you're just frustrating people thinking you do them a favor by sharing last chest (which should be weapon only) with 50% jewelry drop rate.

If you really listen to the player base you'd understand that no one cares about the jewelry and that everyone is here for the weapon, so we won't miss that 50% jewelry if the last chest would be changed to 100% weapon drop rate.
Keep the nirnhorned trait for leaderboard weekly reward only, so it will still be something to aim for even if last chest would be 100% drop rate, it would still motivate us to compete for the nirnhorn weapon.

You're following this road on the gold keys update, so why not on maelstrom arena which involve more time and more gameplay to be completed ?

And if for some reason 100% drop rate on last chest is never allowed by ZOS then Tokens for completing the maelstrom arena should be awarded, this way everyone doing vma will have a goal to aim for, and not just a luck based system that is unfair and have no real end as an unlucky player can farm it 100 times and still wait to see the weapon he's aiming for.

Tokens would allow us to buy weapons, if for exemple 1 vma run = 1 token, you should then set prices like 10 tokens = 1h and 20 tokens = 2h , something like AP and akaviri motifs, but those rates are better be set by ZOS.

It would makes more sense and makes maelstrom arena weapon something that is awarded by farming and not by luck.

leipatemeibbaa · May 2016

I did 5 runs so far on the PTS with my DK. Not a single drop on either weapon and jewrley.

Artis · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

So you're telling people that if they don't like the loot system in vMA, vMoL (lol, Alkosh ice staff?), vICP, vWGT, Wrothgar dailies and pretty much every other part of ESO, that they should just stop and... quit? Guess what? That's exactly what people have been doing: getting fed up with the loot system (not just in vMA, but everywhere in this game) and leaving.

Yes! Exactly. No one is forcing anyone. The game and its universe has its laws/rules. And the loot system is not a secret to anyone. If you're having fun - do it, if not - don't. That's the advantage of the game over the real world - you have this choice. I'm playing because I'm having fun doing it, I'm having fun interacting with some people that I met in game. Lately I've taken my friend I met in game to sewers for the first time for him. We ran a little but we spent more time just chatting in TS while our toons were at the base lol. Loot is nothing. It's just something you get as you're playing the game. I'm wondering, if all the whiners finally leave, will we be able to just relax or new ones will take their place

code65536 wrote: »

Like what? What part of the ESO endgame isn't plagued by this cancerous loot system?

Like whatever they like. If they don't like anything and only play for loot - why don't they look for another game? I heard in skyrim the loot is not random. They can go play pvp, you know, it's about fighting players, not the loot. Similarly pve is about fighting things.

code65536 wrote: »

Actually, that is fair, because you're not battling luck. You're battling other players, whether its the opposing faction getting in the way of your emp keeps or your own faction in the way of getting them to support your emp push (e.g., if you've been an arse and have few friends in your faction, you might find it hard to get that support needed for your push). You're not battling dice rolls, and if you fail to get emp, it means that you haven't put in enough effort to overcome the obstacles. But battling RNG? It's possible to be someone like Function who runs it hundreds of times, get hundreds of weapons, but still not the one he actually wants because luck. Luck rewards... luck. Luck doesn't reward merit, skill or effort.

The only "effort" you are talking about is the time spent. In this regard, vma is no different than fishing. Vma can absolutely be learnt just like fish caught or motifs found lol and you need less time for that than for fishing/motifs too. I'm an average player and even I got a no-death run with no sigils used. That's because I put effort. Vma does reward your effort - you can get titles and achievements. You can get soulgems and other sets too. Master weps is not the only thing that drops there. And even if it's the only one we consider.. They were not supposed to be something you can farm. ZOS said it back in vdsa times, that the weps are supposed to be exclusive. Your reward for the time spent is titles and achievements.
In fishing you spend way more time battling luck, yet you don't ask to nerf that.

I understand your position. You think those players are entitled to get a master weapon JUST because they complete it 1 hundred times. But yep, there are factors that don't depend on them. Like the boss didn't take the weapon they wanted when he left home today. It's not about deserving something. It's that before you kill the boss - you don't know what's in his backpack. It's ok, it should be like that. I just disagree that someone entitled to something just because they put effort/ran it hundreds of times. If you could predict exactly when you get weapons - then, again, everyone would have them at some point (whatever is the predicted time before looting what they want). Then they will stop being rare. And finally getting them won't feel as good as it feels now. It will feel like "I did my job, this is my paycheck". But it's a game and it has the element of luck. All MMOs always had this element, didn't they? All MMOs I consider good at least

code65536 wrote: »

Well, for someone like hedna, he has everything. All he's missing now is his sharpened inferno staff and his Scathing set. He has pretty much everything else including capped CP. Aside from getting these two things, how else is he going to further progress? You can ask him how his vICP runs are going, but judging from the fact that he still does vICP farm runs, I think he's getting screwed by RNG there, too.

I know how they are going, he keeps inviting me sometimes and I see him there a lot when he's online, which means he still needs it. And I know first hand how low odds to loot scathing there. I just don't see why complain. Progression is fine. How about forget about numbers and think about skill? Like, he can go pvp for example. I'm sure he doesn't have 100% of pve achievements completed too - that's progression as well, right?

Also, if he gets his sharpened inferno and scathing - that's when you ask "how else is he going to further progress". Right now he does have room for progress. If drop rate was higher, he wouldn't. He probably would leave the game because there's nothing for him to do - he already has everything.

ALso, I know for the fact he has a precise inferno. And that's the one you want to use with scathing anyway to maximize the uptime. At least that's what I saw EU nightblades recommended on tamrielfoundry.

code65536 wrote: »

And if this thread was about the RNG loot system in general, you bet I'd be complaining about vICP and vWGT. About how, after over a hundred runs of vICP, I still have only one piece of divines Scathing. Or how after hundreds of runs of vWGT, I still don't have divines SPC shoes.

Me neither. But why complain about weapons in particular. It's just ONE item. Your argument above doesn't really explain this to me. It's one item. Get over it, you'll get it at some point if you want. It's if you had everything - that's when you can't progress anymore. Now you can.

code65536 wrote: »

Some of us would rather see change than to keep bending over and taking it. You may be able to brush it off, say, "oh well, I don't care". But most people aren't masochists. Kudos to you for continuing to take it; many people would get disillusioned and leave.

That's understandable. But see, if your argument is that players want to be able to progress I don't see why they won't leave the game shortly after they get everything they want. Master weapons is that beacon for them - something they can keep trying to get which can hold them in-game. Which means alchemists will sell more potions/mats for those guys to run arena etc. So it's good for the majority of the game population that some people are still trying to get something from VMA and keep running it.

I don't "take it". I just like playing. I get your point. Trying to explain mine though. Not everything that's best for certain players is best for the entire game. I for one don't like that the game is too grindy. Like most achievements are insane - 1mill gold in fence, 10000 resources looted, 100 scamps that randomly and rarely spawn in sewers, drop rates of fish, motifs etc. And yes drop rates in vicp, wgt and vma. Don't think I'm dumb and don't understand your concerns. I'm just saying that maybe it's better for the game if vma weps are rare like they were intended to be. I do agree the rest shouldn't be as rare. I think it's a good compromise. But having one item that many people keep working to get at any given time is not bad.

code65536 wrote: »

And what's so wrong with that? I can't understand why are you are so hell-bent opposed to the idea that if someone is good enough to complete vMA consistently and farm it, that they deserve to be guaranteed the weapon of their choice after a certain number of runs? Why in bloody blazes do you think that's somehow bad for the health of the game? The number of people who can beat vMA consistently is already tiny. Why must there be a secondary filter of luck that is applied after the primary filter of being-able-to-complete-vMA? It makes absolutely no sense, except to satisfy this perverse notion you hold about the ideal rarity of this item.

You still didn't give me an example. I think it's bad for the health of the game overall when players think they are entitled for something at all. Just the wrong atmosphere overall. And also look above - I think I explained why I think it's good when people keep running vma.

Just to add - at some point everyone will get CP capped and that will result in absolutely everyone having a master weapon of their choice if they want it. That's the opposite of rare. I also strongly suspect that the removal of vet ranks will kinda "nerf" vma, since the loot is 160cp - it might become balanced for 160cp

That's my point. That in future they can stop being rare much faster than they would with the current system. I'm thinking long-term.

Decado wrote: »

So you answer is just if you dislike something don't do it?

I never said I disliked vMoL Infact I had a great time in there and my first completion felt amazing, my group have never once judged me for it, I still run with them, it is me however who feels they are letting the group down, I could add another 1/2k on top of my DPS just by simply changing my weapons.

And no I no longer run vMA for leaderboards because I hate the place, I run twice daily and I don't run to be competitive anymore I take a relaxed I don't give a *** attitude towards it, vMA leaderboards mean less than nothing to me, this is a MMO I care about group content not solo content they hide BiS weapons behind

Of course. It's a game. You aren't forced to do anything. If you dislike something - do something else. It's not real life where you HAVE to do some stuff.

Attackopsn · May 2016

VMA is art. Sorrrrrry all, little off topic, just going to agree with artis in the spirit of letting one of the above posters know that there are people who like to run VMA and have all the weapons. You just won't find many of them on these forums where the majority of people come here to complain.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

So you're telling people that if they don't like the loot system in vMA, vMoL (lol, Alkosh ice staff?), vICP, vWGT, Wrothgar dailies and pretty much every other part of ESO, that they should just stop and... quit? Guess what? That's exactly what people have been doing: getting fed up with the loot system (not just in vMA, but everywhere in this game) and leaving.

Yes! Exactly. No one is forcing anyone. The game and its universe has its laws/rules. And the loot system is not a secret to anyone. If you're having fun - do it, if not - don't. That's the advantage of the game over the real world - you have this choice. I'm playing because I'm having fun doing it, I'm having fun interacting with some people that I met in game. Lately I've taken my friend I met in game to sewers for the first time for him. We ran a little but we spent more time just chatting in TS while our toons were at the base lol. Loot is nothing. It's just something you get as you're playing the game. I'm wondering, if all the whiners finally leave, will we be able to just relax or new ones will take their place

code65536 wrote: »

Like what? What part of the ESO endgame isn't plagued by this cancerous loot system?

Like whatever they like. If they don't like anything and only play for loot - why don't they look for another game? I heard in skyrim the loot is not random. They can go play pvp, you know, it's about fighting players, not the loot. Similarly pve is about fighting things.

code65536 wrote: »

Actually, that is fair, because you're not battling luck. You're battling other players, whether its the opposing faction getting in the way of your emp keeps or your own faction in the way of getting them to support your emp push (e.g., if you've been an arse and have few friends in your faction, you might find it hard to get that support needed for your push). You're not battling dice rolls, and if you fail to get emp, it means that you haven't put in enough effort to overcome the obstacles. But battling RNG? It's possible to be someone like Function who runs it hundreds of times, get hundreds of weapons, but still not the one he actually wants because luck. Luck rewards... luck. Luck doesn't reward merit, skill or effort.

The only "effort" you are talking about is the time spent. In this regard, vma is no different than fishing. Vma can absolutely be learnt just like fish caught or motifs found lol and you need less time for that than for fishing/motifs too. I'm an average player and even I got a no-death run with no sigils used. That's because I put effort. Vma does reward your effort - you can get titles and achievements. You can get soulgems and other sets too. Master weps is not the only thing that drops there. And even if it's the only one we consider.. They were not supposed to be something you can farm. ZOS said it back in vdsa times, that the weps are supposed to be exclusive. Your reward for the time spent is titles and achievements.
In fishing you spend way more time battling luck, yet you don't ask to nerf that.

I understand your position. You think those players are entitled to get a master weapon JUST because they complete it 1 hundred times. But yep, there are factors that don't depend on them. Like the boss didn't take the weapon they wanted when he left home today. It's not about deserving something. It's that before you kill the boss - you don't know what's in his backpack. It's ok, it should be like that. I just disagree that someone entitled to something just because they put effort/ran it hundreds of times. If you could predict exactly when you get weapons - then, again, everyone would have them at some point (whatever is the predicted time before looting what they want). Then they will stop being rare. And finally getting them won't feel as good as it feels now. It will feel like "I did my job, this is my paycheck". But it's a game and it has the element of luck. All MMOs always had this element, didn't they? All MMOs I consider good at least

code65536 wrote: »

Well, for someone like hedna, he has everything. All he's missing now is his sharpened inferno staff and his Scathing set. He has pretty much everything else including capped CP. Aside from getting these two things, how else is he going to further progress? You can ask him how his vICP runs are going, but judging from the fact that he still does vICP farm runs, I think he's getting screwed by RNG there, too.

I know how they are going, he keeps inviting me sometimes and I see him there a lot when he's online, which means he still needs it. And I know first hand how low odds to loot scathing there. I just don't see why complain. Progression is fine. How about forget about numbers and think about skill? Like, he can go pvp for example. I'm sure he doesn't have 100% of pve achievements completed too - that's progression as well, right?

Also, if he gets his sharpened inferno and scathing - that's when you ask "how else is he going to further progress". Right now he does have room for progress. If drop rate was higher, he wouldn't. He probably would leave the game because there's nothing for him to do - he already has everything.

ALso, I know for the fact he has a precise inferno. And that's the one you want to use with scathing anyway to maximize the uptime. At least that's what I saw EU nightblades recommended on tamrielfoundry.

code65536 wrote: »

And if this thread was about the RNG loot system in general, you bet I'd be complaining about vICP and vWGT. About how, after over a hundred runs of vICP, I still have only one piece of divines Scathing. Or how after hundreds of runs of vWGT, I still don't have divines SPC shoes.

Me neither. But why complain about weapons in particular. It's just ONE item. Your argument above doesn't really explain this to me. It's one item. Get over it, you'll get it at some point if you want. It's if you had everything - that's when you can't progress anymore. Now you can.

code65536 wrote: »

Some of us would rather see change than to keep bending over and taking it. You may be able to brush it off, say, "oh well, I don't care". But most people aren't masochists. Kudos to you for continuing to take it; many people would get disillusioned and leave.

That's understandable. But see, if your argument is that players want to be able to progress I don't see why they won't leave the game shortly after they get everything they want. Master weapons is that beacon for them - something they can keep trying to get which can hold them in-game. Which means alchemists will sell more potions/mats for those guys to run arena etc. So it's good for the majority of the game population that some people are still trying to get something from VMA and keep running it.

I don't "take it". I just like playing. I get your point. Trying to explain mine though. Not everything that's best for certain players is best for the entire game. I for one don't like that the game is too grindy. Like most achievements are insane - 1mill gold in fence, 10000 resources looted, 100 scamps that randomly and rarely spawn in sewers, drop rates of fish, motifs etc. And yes drop rates in vicp, wgt and vma. Don't think I'm dumb and don't understand your concerns. I'm just saying that maybe it's better for the game if vma weps are rare like they were intended to be. I do agree the rest shouldn't be as rare. I think it's a good compromise. But having one item that many people keep working to get at any given time is not bad.

code65536 wrote: »

And what's so wrong with that? I can't understand why are you are so hell-bent opposed to the idea that if someone is good enough to complete vMA consistently and farm it, that they deserve to be guaranteed the weapon of their choice after a certain number of runs? Why in bloody blazes do you think that's somehow bad for the health of the game? The number of people who can beat vMA consistently is already tiny. Why must there be a secondary filter of luck that is applied after the primary filter of being-able-to-complete-vMA? It makes absolutely no sense, except to satisfy this perverse notion you hold about the ideal rarity of this item.

You still didn't give me an example. I think it's bad for the health of the game overall when players think they are entitled for something at all. Just the wrong atmosphere overall. And also look above - I think I explained why I think it's good when people keep running vma.

Just to add - at some point everyone will get CP capped and that will result in absolutely everyone having a master weapon of their choice if they want it. That's the opposite of rare. I also strongly suspect that the removal of vet ranks will kinda "nerf" vma, since the loot is 160cp - it might become balanced for 160cp

That's my point. That in future they can stop being rare much faster than they would with the current system. I'm thinking long-term.

Decado wrote: »

So you answer is just if you dislike something don't do it?

I never said I disliked vMoL Infact I had a great time in there and my first completion felt amazing, my group have never once judged me for it, I still run with them, it is me however who feels they are letting the group down, I could add another 1/2k on top of my DPS just by simply changing my weapons.

And no I no longer run vMA for leaderboards because I hate the place, I run twice daily and I don't run to be competitive anymore I take a relaxed I don't give a *** attitude towards it, vMA leaderboards mean less than nothing to me, this is a MMO I care about group content not solo content they hide BiS weapons behind

Of course. It's a game. You aren't forced to do anything. If you dislike something - do something else. It's not real life where you HAVE to do some stuff.

1. You say: You dont like it - leave and find another game. But Iike the game, I just dont like the loot system. if i was the minority you could simply ignore me, but the vast majority of players are not happy with the way the loot system works. It does not reward skill, it is random. You my friend are unfortunately the minority who doesn't mind being taken advantage of. And please make no mistake, this is what taken advantage of looks like. No one in their right mind would have been ok with releasing a system with such terrible RNG, if they had a way to create enough content to fill the in between DLC space. The reason for the RNG system as it is is because the developers realize that they do not provide enough content in between DLC's to allow for a token system.

2. Your comparison to fishing is invalid...not everyone wants to fish, but EVERYONE wants to maximize their dps, therefore Maelstrom Weapons are much more desired. Also a vMA staff is not a minor dps increase, it is a major one. we are talking of a solid 3-5% dps boost, that is huge. vMA does not reward skill, since whether you beat it with a score of 56 or 560k your chance to acquire the loot you crave is the same. That is crap.

3. I would be ok with no getting a weapon if there was a way to have an eqivalent damaging build that doesn't require a staff, but alas they made it impossible. For example if the new vulnerability bonus from poisons was exclusive to the person that has it equipped, that would provide a massive option for those of us that have yet to procure a fire staff...but alas we are as always limited in our choices.

4. As @code65536 stated I have most things that i need and i worked hard for em and i run vIcP twice to 4 times a night 5 nights a week for the past i dont know how long man....it is not fun, but i need scathing because that is the only thing left to do outside of starting a new toon(also did this) and farming the new trial...

5. Also i do have a precise fire staff, but i want sharpened....the change in uptime of scathing on a nb with a precise staff is very minor. Sharpened will be much better (like 5-8%), especially next patch...

6. If i get both scathing and the sharpened staff ill actually relax and enjoy the game - help pugs out, level new toons, spend time theorycrafting....as it stands i have to grind...I feel like the CP grind was replaced with an even worse gear grind...why worse? because at least with CP you are GUARANTEED a payoff if you put in the work....with gear I could grind ICP for a month 5 times a day everyday and STILL not get my gear...thats crap...WoW's lockouts were 10 times better. You wre guaranteed gear and in a raid you had to earn your piece.

7. Also I wouldnt mind vMA weapons to be sellable. what should be exclusive is titles, not gear. Since we all know a bad player wearing top gear will still be a bad player, it wont change him. that would give me the opportunity to sell like 30 perfect traits stam weapons.

8. Your last argument was about players wanting to leave after they get everything. Well the system should slow that down, but not with RNG. With guaranteed delayed gratification - tokens. It would act the same way, except it wouldn't be so frigging miserable because you would know when this crap would be over...they just dont create enough content or dont make the content replayable enough to make it interesting. For example, why do the pledges if you have all the shoulders that you need and then some? How could they insitute an easy fix that would attract players to running them? Create a leaderboard for dungeon runs. And as a reward offer weekly rewards just like the trials...that would create a whole bunch of additional game participation without the need to create a whole new piece of content. It is this type of thinking that is missing from making the game large enough not to get bored with and rewarding enough not to get frustrated with.

9. I just don't understand why you would support a system that screams of lazy versus a system that would reward the players and create multiple ways for them to engage the content. Another idea - make the random daily dungeon drop tokens and then every 21 tokens let the player buy a gear piece in his choice of trait from the gear vendor. This gear would be any of the dungeon gear that normally drops from there. that would mean that every 3 weeks you will be 100% guaranteed to get an item of your choice EVEN if your luck sucks. Better yet, keep the system as is but remove BoP from all items - problem solved. Those with skill are rewarded with $ for their hard work and those that lack time and ability can purchase those powerful items and still not do well, since its not the items that make a player it is his skill.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Attackopsn wrote: »

VMA is art. Sorrrrrry all, little off topic, just going to agree with artis in the spirit of letting one of the above posters know that there are people who like to run VMA and have all the weapons. You just won't find many of them on these forums where the majority of people come here to complain.

I think the reason why youre not upset is because you have all the weapons...if you ran it 500 times and still didnt get the one you wanted, I doubt you'd feel the same way...

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Wanted to add one more thing @Artis. What @code65536 and I want is an american system - You work hard, study, get your degree and are almost guaranteed a well paying job (note i said almost). What you seem to want is what I saw in my home country of Russia - where you can get straight A's and ace everything and still be passed over because it is not based on merit, but on luck, as in are you lucky enough to have connections. That is a crap system and no one there likes it. As @code65536 so eloquently put it:" they just take it"...

Attackopsn · May 2016

Mm, yes I know where you are coming from though, took me nearly 200 runs to get my fire staves, I think that flawless/no sigil runs should maybe award a token the first time around that lets you pick something. The chances of you getting exactly what you want are slim, and it really just promotes (something I think many of us have done) knocking other players off the weekly with numerous alts.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Attackopsn wrote: »

Mm, yes I know where you are coming from though, took me nearly 200 runs to get my fire staves, I think that flawless/no sigil runs should maybe award a token the first time around that lets you pick something. The chances of you getting exactly what you want are slim, and it really just promotes (something I think many of us have done) knocking other players off the weekly with numerous alts.

I would be for this

Artis · May 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

1. You say: You dont like it - leave and find another game. But Iike the game, I just dont like the loot system. if i was the minority you could simply ignore me, but the vast majority of players are not happy with the way the loot system works. It does not reward skill, it is random. You my friend are unfortunately the minority who doesn't mind being taken advantage of. And please make no mistake, this is what taken advantage of looks like. No one in their right mind would have been ok with releasing a system with such terrible RNG, if they had a way to create enough content to fill the in between DLC space. The reason for the RNG system as it is is because the developers realize that they do not provide enough content in between DLC's to allow for a token system.

2. Your comparison to fishing is invalid...not everyone wants to fish, but EVERYONE wants to maximize their dps, therefore Maelstrom Weapons are much more desired. Also a vMA staff is not a minor dps increase, it is a major one. we are talking of a solid 3-5% dps boost, that is huge. vMA does not reward skill, since whether you beat it with a score of 56 or 560k your chance to acquire the loot you crave is the same. That is crap.

3. I would be ok with no getting a weapon if there was a way to have an eqivalent damaging build that doesn't require a staff, but alas they made it impossible. For example if the new vulnerability bonus from poisons was exclusive to the person that has it equipped, that would provide a massive option for those of us that have yet to procure a fire staff...but alas we are as always limited in our choices.

4. As @code65536 stated I have most things that i need and i worked hard for em and i run vIcP twice to 4 times a night 5 nights a week for the past i dont know how long man....it is not fun, but i need scathing because that is the only thing left to do outside of starting a new toon(also did this) and farming the new trial...

5. Also i do have a precise fire staff, but i want sharpened....the change in uptime of scathing on a nb with a precise staff is very minor. Sharpened will be much better (like 5-8%), especially next patch...

6. If i get both scathing and the sharpened staff ill actually relax and enjoy the game - help pugs out, level new toons, spend time theorycrafting....as it stands i have to grind...I feel like the CP grind was replaced with an even worse gear grind...why worse? because at least with CP you are GUARANTEED a payoff if you put in the work....with gear I could grind ICP for a month 5 times a day everyday and STILL not get my gear...thats crap...WoW's lockouts were 10 times better. You wre guaranteed gear and in a raid you had to earn your piece.

7. Also I wouldnt mind vMA weapons to be sellable. what should be exclusive is titles, not gear. Since we all know a bad player wearing top gear will still be a bad player, it wont change him. that would give me the opportunity to sell like 30 perfect traits stam weapons.

8. Your last argument was about players wanting to leave after they get everything. Well the system should slow that down, but not with RNG. With guaranteed delayed gratification - tokens. It would act the same way, except it wouldn't be so frigging miserable because you would know when this crap would be over...they just dont create enough content or dont make the content replayable enough to make it interesting. For example, why do the pledges if you have all the shoulders that you need and then some? How could they insitute an easy fix that would attract players to running them? Create a leaderboard for dungeon runs. And as a reward offer weekly rewards just like the trials...that would create a whole bunch of additional game participation without the need to create a whole new piece of content. It is this type of thinking that is missing from making the game large enough not to get bored with and rewarding enough not to get frustrated with.

9. I just don't understand why you would support a system that screams of lazy versus a system that would reward the players and create multiple ways for them to engage the content. Another idea - make the random daily dungeon drop tokens and then every 21 tokens let the player buy a gear piece in his choice of trait from the gear vendor. This gear would be any of the dungeon gear that normally drops from there. that would mean that every 3 weeks you will be 100% guaranteed to get an item of your choice EVEN if your luck sucks. Better yet, keep the system as is but remove BoP from all items - problem solved. Those with skill are rewarded with $ for their hard work and those that lack time and ability can purchase those powerful items and still not do well, since its not the items that make a player it is his skill.

1. Not necessarily another game, but do something else in this game, if you don't like vMA. Also, it might be that you guys are the vocal minority.

2. Your assumption is far-fetched. You don't know that everyone wants to maximize their dps. There are also tanks and heals who don't care. So let's make it straight - some people want to maximize their dps just like some people want to have fishing achievements. If you want to make it easier for one group, why not for the other? And NOW you're talking! good. I agree that reward should depend on the score. If you asked for this, I wouldn't mind. This is fair, this is based on merit. Also, 3-5% dps is not a major boost. 3-5% is within a margin of error statistically. You lose easily more than 3-5% if you don't weave perfectly and/or have high ping and/or die and wait to get rezzed and/or mess up when you need to move or when your target moves.

Like seriously, stop for a second and think about it. You know the last sentence makes sense.

3. So why aren't you asking for that? That would be better since it would add more options for everyone. Why are you asking for giving master weps away?

4. If anything, I can dps. Will see if it stops being fun for me too

Man, if you aren't enjoying it - do something else. Try pvp, try sewers, try stealing stuff.

5. Ah maybe next patch. I've just read this thread on foundry by maschinate I believe? eu nbs agreed that precise is better in this dlc. So farm scathing instead of vma lol. Also, is sharpened over precise is higher than the error due to ping/weaving/motion/luck with crits? Especially as opposed to precise masters over non-master's staff?

6. Idk man, if you promise you don't leave, then I'll take your side. I'd miss you haha.

7. Ok according to this logic, a good player in bad gear will still be a good player. Then why all this noise about ONE item?

8. Tokens for weeklies seems like not that bad of an idea to me. Or for no-death runs. Or for high score runs. For example 400k+ or 500k+.

9. I am absolutely against removing BOP. That will mean that whoever has more gold - gets access to the best gear faster than players who might have better skill than them. Not to mention that you can buy gold for gold sellers, so essentially it would make the game p2w. I'd expect you wouldn't even mention such system as it definitely doesn't reward skill which you say should be rewarded.

Regarding guaranteed items - I agree it doesn't sound bad. I still have to add that it shouldn't work for absolutely all the items. It's not bad to have one item that is exclusive ish.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to add one more thing @Artis. What @code65536 and I want is an american system - You work hard, study, get your degree and are almost guaranteed a well paying job (note i said almost). What you seem to want is what I saw in my home country of Russia - where you can get straight A's and ace everything and still be passed over because it is not based on merit, but on luck, as in are you lucky enough to have connections. That is a crap system and no one there likes it. As @code65536 so eloquently put it:" they just take it"...

Ah it's not presidential elections and you don't need to bring up Empire of Evil to get more votes. You already said that the majority on forums supports you, so no reason to refer to this. I understand that they are brainwashed and once you bring up commies or russians or whatever, they will support you cuz they are anti-capitalism lol.

See, as you know I grew up in a former USSR country too. I wouldn't say that on big scale they don't reward your merit and everything is based on luck. Idk maybe it is like that in Russia, won't argue with that, you know better. But in general people with better education get better jobs, productive people get raised etc. Your "american" system looks more like whatever US has right now. More precisely - affirmative action. Oh, let's support this guy because he's from minority. Let's take this girl over that guy for our physics program - because it's unfair more than 50% of physics majors are guys. I disagree with this.

I'll say it again - your merit is rewarded. You get more "rolls" for every chest, you get your name on the leaderboard depending on your score. You just want that one item that was intended to be rare to be more accessible. Tbh, below is the crux of what you guys are saying. Or so it seems:

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I think the reason why youre not upset is because you have all the weapons...if you ran it 500 times and still didnt get the one you wanted, I doubt you'd feel the same way...

The reason you want another system is because you don't have all the weapons.

In the end, I don't care what's gonna happen. I'll stop playing when it stops being fun for me. When everyone runs absolutely the same gear/build might contribute to that. But who cares about me and players like me, who want diversity

You just want your weapons and you will get them fast in the next DLC, my congratulations. I still think it's not better for the game overall. I do agree that RNG with useless traits has to be revised, though. But I don't think every single items in the game should be guaranteed to every player who can complete content. There can be a few that are exclusive which makes them rare and more awesome. Think of legendary weps or rare mounts (Ashes of A'lar or tiger, for example) in WoW.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

1. You say: You dont like it - leave and find another game. But Iike the game, I just dont like the loot system. if i was the minority you could simply ignore me, but the vast majority of players are not happy with the way the loot system works. It does not reward skill, it is random. You my friend are unfortunately the minority who doesn't mind being taken advantage of. And please make no mistake, this is what taken advantage of looks like. No one in their right mind would have been ok with releasing a system with such terrible RNG, if they had a way to create enough content to fill the in between DLC space. The reason for the RNG system as it is is because the developers realize that they do not provide enough content in between DLC's to allow for a token system.

2. Your comparison to fishing is invalid...not everyone wants to fish, but EVERYONE wants to maximize their dps, therefore Maelstrom Weapons are much more desired. Also a vMA staff is not a minor dps increase, it is a major one. we are talking of a solid 3-5% dps boost, that is huge. vMA does not reward skill, since whether you beat it with a score of 56 or 560k your chance to acquire the loot you crave is the same. That is crap.

3. I would be ok with no getting a weapon if there was a way to have an eqivalent damaging build that doesn't require a staff, but alas they made it impossible. For example if the new vulnerability bonus from poisons was exclusive to the person that has it equipped, that would provide a massive option for those of us that have yet to procure a fire staff...but alas we are as always limited in our choices.

4. As @code65536 stated I have most things that i need and i worked hard for em and i run vIcP twice to 4 times a night 5 nights a week for the past i dont know how long man....it is not fun, but i need scathing because that is the only thing left to do outside of starting a new toon(also did this) and farming the new trial...

5. Also i do have a precise fire staff, but i want sharpened....the change in uptime of scathing on a nb with a precise staff is very minor. Sharpened will be much better (like 5-8%), especially next patch...

6. If i get both scathing and the sharpened staff ill actually relax and enjoy the game - help pugs out, level new toons, spend time theorycrafting....as it stands i have to grind...I feel like the CP grind was replaced with an even worse gear grind...why worse? because at least with CP you are GUARANTEED a payoff if you put in the work....with gear I could grind ICP for a month 5 times a day everyday and STILL not get my gear...thats crap...WoW's lockouts were 10 times better. You wre guaranteed gear and in a raid you had to earn your piece.

7. Also I wouldnt mind vMA weapons to be sellable. what should be exclusive is titles, not gear. Since we all know a bad player wearing top gear will still be a bad player, it wont change him. that would give me the opportunity to sell like 30 perfect traits stam weapons.

8. Your last argument was about players wanting to leave after they get everything. Well the system should slow that down, but not with RNG. With guaranteed delayed gratification - tokens. It would act the same way, except it wouldn't be so frigging miserable because you would know when this crap would be over...they just dont create enough content or dont make the content replayable enough to make it interesting. For example, why do the pledges if you have all the shoulders that you need and then some? How could they insitute an easy fix that would attract players to running them? Create a leaderboard for dungeon runs. And as a reward offer weekly rewards just like the trials...that would create a whole bunch of additional game participation without the need to create a whole new piece of content. It is this type of thinking that is missing from making the game large enough not to get bored with and rewarding enough not to get frustrated with.

9. I just don't understand why you would support a system that screams of lazy versus a system that would reward the players and create multiple ways for them to engage the content. Another idea - make the random daily dungeon drop tokens and then every 21 tokens let the player buy a gear piece in his choice of trait from the gear vendor. This gear would be any of the dungeon gear that normally drops from there. that would mean that every 3 weeks you will be 100% guaranteed to get an item of your choice EVEN if your luck sucks. Better yet, keep the system as is but remove BoP from all items - problem solved. Those with skill are rewarded with $ for their hard work and those that lack time and ability can purchase those powerful items and still not do well, since its not the items that make a player it is his skill.

1. Not necessarily another game, but do something else in this game, if you don't like vMA. Also, it might be that you guys are the vocal minority.

2. Your assumption is far-fetched. You don't know that everyone wants to maximize their dps. There are also tanks and heals who don't care. So let's make it straight - some people want to maximize their dps just like some people want to have fishing achievements. If you want to make it easier for one group, why not for the other? And NOW you're talking! good. I agree that reward should depend on the score. If you asked for this, I wouldn't mind. This is fair, this is based on merit. Also, 3-5% dps is not a major boost. 3-5% is within a margin of error statistically. You lose easily more than 3-5% if you don't weave perfectly and/or have high ping and/or die and wait to get rezzed and/or mess up when you need to move or when your target moves.

Like seriously, stop for a second and think about it. You know the last sentence makes sense.

3. So why aren't you asking for that? That would be better since it would add more options for everyone. Why are you asking for giving master weps away?

4. If anything, I can dps. Will see if it stops being fun for me too Man, if you aren't enjoying it - do something else. Try pvp, try sewers, try stealing stuff.

5. Ah maybe next patch. I've just read this thread on foundry by maschinate I believe? eu nbs agreed that precise is better in this dlc. So farm scathing instead of vma lol.

6. Idk man, if you promise you don't leave, then I'll take your side. I'd miss you haha.

7. Ok according to this logic, a good player in bad gear will still be a good player. Then why all this noise about ONE item?

8. Tokens for weeklies seems like not that bad of an idea to me. Or for no-death runs. Or for high score runs. For example 400k+ or 500k+.

9. I am absolutely against removing BOP. That will mean that whoever has more gold - gets access to the best gear faster than players who might have better skill than them. Not to mention that you can buy gold for gold sellers, so essentially it would make the game p2w. I'd expect you wouldn't even mention such system as it definitely doesn't reward skill which you say should be rewarded.

Regarding guaranteed items - I agree it doesn't sound bad. I still have to add that it shouldn't work for absolutely all the items. It's not bad to have one item that is exclusive ish.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to add one more thing @Artis. What @code65536 and I want is an american system - You work hard, study, get your degree and are almost guaranteed a well paying job (note i said almost). What you seem to want is what I saw in my home country of Russia - where you can get straight A's and ace everything and still be passed over because it is not based on merit, but on luck, as in are you lucky enough to have connections. That is a crap system and no one there likes it. As @code65536 so eloquently put it:" they just take it"...

Ah it's not presidential elections and you don't need to bring up Empire of Evil to get more votes. You already said that the majority on forums supports you, so no reason to refer to this. I understand that they are brainwashed and once you bring up commies or russians or whatever, they will support you cuz they are anti-capitalism lol.

See, as you know I grew up in a former USSR country too. I wouldn't say that on big scale they don't reward your merit and everything is based on luck. Idk maybe it is like that in Russia, won't argue with that, you know better. But in general people with better education get better jobs, productive people get raised etc. Your "american" system looks more like whatever US has right now. More precisely - affirmative action. Oh, let's support this guy because he's from minority. Let's take this girl over that guy for our physics program - because it's unfair more than 50% of physics majors are guys. I disagree with this.

I'll say it again - your merit is rewarded. You get more "rolls" for every chest, you get your name on the leaderboard depending on your score. You just want that one item that was intended to be rare to be more accessible. Tbh, below is the crux of what you guys are saying. Or so it seems:

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I think the reason why youre not upset is because you have all the weapons...if you ran it 500 times and still didnt get the one you wanted, I doubt you'd feel the same way...

The reason you want another system is because you don't have all the weapons.

In the end, I don't care what's gonna happen. I'll stop playing when it stops being fun for me. When everyone runs absolutely the same gear/build might contribute to that. But who cares about me and players like me, who want diversity You just want your weapons and you will get them fast in the next DLC, my congratulations. I still think it's not better for the game overall. I do agree that RNG with useless traits has to be revised, though. But I don't think every single items in the game should be guaranteed to every player who can complete content. There can be a few that are exclusive which makes them rare and more awesome. Think of legendary weps or rare mounts (Ashes of A'lar or tiger, for example) in WoW.

1. I would bet you $100 that we are not a vocal minority.

2. Every DPS wants to maximize their DPS. The tanks dont need gear from there and the healers can benefit from a vMA staff, but its not a must have as there are alternatives. The same cannot be said for the DPS. DPS always cares about numbers (or at least those that are good and are trying to improve). Healers dont care about numbers because they need to be just good enough to make sure no one dies. they dont need high numbers to be good, they just need to make sure no one dies. 3-5% dps is a huge amount for a top end player for whom this arena was made. No one will agree with your assessment that it isnt a big deal. Dying or not dying has nothing to do with anything since it happens to you regardless of equipment. But i have had plenty of no death trial runs (vMoL is an exception), so 3-5% does matter.

3. Why hoard master weapons, what the harm of others having them? You have achievements to boast of your amazingness.

4. I love PvE I have never like PvP in any games I have played, just not my thing.

5. I disagree with Mashie's assessment. Plus there is more than one way to skin a cat.

6. Hehe wanna run ICP?

7. Because while good gear doesnt change a bad player, it does a bad player. there is a big difference between giving a regular person a ferrrari and giving a toyota to a racer VS the other way around. A good player will maximize the potential of gear and thus will benefit from it a lot more.

8. Yup
9. But having best gear wont get you into top raiding guild..for example CSH has a 35k dps minimum requirement on the Adjudicator. Who cares whether you bought or earned your gear, if you can't hit it you wont get in.... I guess i just want to sell my weapons and make money instead of sinking $$$ into that single player content piece.

10. I am all for hard to get stuff, but the reason we all want these staves is that there are no options. You mentioned identical builds, but who's fault was that? They dont give us alternatives, there is simply nothing better than a sharpened inferno vMA staff....that is it...why couldn't they have made lightning or ice viable for top dps? bad design.........

11. I want a guarantee of a reward at the end of a long grind...right now we simply do not have that. Btw In all the former soviet countries of today everything is based on who you know.

Artis · May 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

1. You say: You dont like it - leave and find another game. But Iike the game, I just dont like the loot system. if i was the minority you could simply ignore me, but the vast majority of players are not happy with the way the loot system works. It does not reward skill, it is random. You my friend are unfortunately the minority who doesn't mind being taken advantage of. And please make no mistake, this is what taken advantage of looks like. No one in their right mind would have been ok with releasing a system with such terrible RNG, if they had a way to create enough content to fill the in between DLC space. The reason for the RNG system as it is is because the developers realize that they do not provide enough content in between DLC's to allow for a token system.

2. Your comparison to fishing is invalid...not everyone wants to fish, but EVERYONE wants to maximize their dps, therefore Maelstrom Weapons are much more desired. Also a vMA staff is not a minor dps increase, it is a major one. we are talking of a solid 3-5% dps boost, that is huge. vMA does not reward skill, since whether you beat it with a score of 56 or 560k your chance to acquire the loot you crave is the same. That is crap.

3. I would be ok with no getting a weapon if there was a way to have an eqivalent damaging build that doesn't require a staff, but alas they made it impossible. For example if the new vulnerability bonus from poisons was exclusive to the person that has it equipped, that would provide a massive option for those of us that have yet to procure a fire staff...but alas we are as always limited in our choices.

4. As @code65536 stated I have most things that i need and i worked hard for em and i run vIcP twice to 4 times a night 5 nights a week for the past i dont know how long man....it is not fun, but i need scathing because that is the only thing left to do outside of starting a new toon(also did this) and farming the new trial...

5. Also i do have a precise fire staff, but i want sharpened....the change in uptime of scathing on a nb with a precise staff is very minor. Sharpened will be much better (like 5-8%), especially next patch...

6. If i get both scathing and the sharpened staff ill actually relax and enjoy the game - help pugs out, level new toons, spend time theorycrafting....as it stands i have to grind...I feel like the CP grind was replaced with an even worse gear grind...why worse? because at least with CP you are GUARANTEED a payoff if you put in the work....with gear I could grind ICP for a month 5 times a day everyday and STILL not get my gear...thats crap...WoW's lockouts were 10 times better. You wre guaranteed gear and in a raid you had to earn your piece.

7. Also I wouldnt mind vMA weapons to be sellable. what should be exclusive is titles, not gear. Since we all know a bad player wearing top gear will still be a bad player, it wont change him. that would give me the opportunity to sell like 30 perfect traits stam weapons.

8. Your last argument was about players wanting to leave after they get everything. Well the system should slow that down, but not with RNG. With guaranteed delayed gratification - tokens. It would act the same way, except it wouldn't be so frigging miserable because you would know when this crap would be over...they just dont create enough content or dont make the content replayable enough to make it interesting. For example, why do the pledges if you have all the shoulders that you need and then some? How could they insitute an easy fix that would attract players to running them? Create a leaderboard for dungeon runs. And as a reward offer weekly rewards just like the trials...that would create a whole bunch of additional game participation without the need to create a whole new piece of content. It is this type of thinking that is missing from making the game large enough not to get bored with and rewarding enough not to get frustrated with.

9. I just don't understand why you would support a system that screams of lazy versus a system that would reward the players and create multiple ways for them to engage the content. Another idea - make the random daily dungeon drop tokens and then every 21 tokens let the player buy a gear piece in his choice of trait from the gear vendor. This gear would be any of the dungeon gear that normally drops from there. that would mean that every 3 weeks you will be 100% guaranteed to get an item of your choice EVEN if your luck sucks. Better yet, keep the system as is but remove BoP from all items - problem solved. Those with skill are rewarded with $ for their hard work and those that lack time and ability can purchase those powerful items and still not do well, since its not the items that make a player it is his skill.

1. Not necessarily another game, but do something else in this game, if you don't like vMA. Also, it might be that you guys are the vocal minority.

2. Your assumption is far-fetched. You don't know that everyone wants to maximize their dps. There are also tanks and heals who don't care. So let's make it straight - some people want to maximize their dps just like some people want to have fishing achievements. If you want to make it easier for one group, why not for the other? And NOW you're talking! good. I agree that reward should depend on the score. If you asked for this, I wouldn't mind. This is fair, this is based on merit. Also, 3-5% dps is not a major boost. 3-5% is within a margin of error statistically. You lose easily more than 3-5% if you don't weave perfectly and/or have high ping and/or die and wait to get rezzed and/or mess up when you need to move or when your target moves.

Like seriously, stop for a second and think about it. You know the last sentence makes sense.

3. So why aren't you asking for that? That would be better since it would add more options for everyone. Why are you asking for giving master weps away?

4. If anything, I can dps. Will see if it stops being fun for me too Man, if you aren't enjoying it - do something else. Try pvp, try sewers, try stealing stuff.

5. Ah maybe next patch. I've just read this thread on foundry by maschinate I believe? eu nbs agreed that precise is better in this dlc. So farm scathing instead of vma lol.

6. Idk man, if you promise you don't leave, then I'll take your side. I'd miss you haha.

7. Ok according to this logic, a good player in bad gear will still be a good player. Then why all this noise about ONE item?

8. Tokens for weeklies seems like not that bad of an idea to me. Or for no-death runs. Or for high score runs. For example 400k+ or 500k+.

9. I am absolutely against removing BOP. That will mean that whoever has more gold - gets access to the best gear faster than players who might have better skill than them. Not to mention that you can buy gold for gold sellers, so essentially it would make the game p2w. I'd expect you wouldn't even mention such system as it definitely doesn't reward skill which you say should be rewarded.

Regarding guaranteed items - I agree it doesn't sound bad. I still have to add that it shouldn't work for absolutely all the items. It's not bad to have one item that is exclusive ish.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to add one more thing @Artis. What @code65536 and I want is an american system - You work hard, study, get your degree and are almost guaranteed a well paying job (note i said almost). What you seem to want is what I saw in my home country of Russia - where you can get straight A's and ace everything and still be passed over because it is not based on merit, but on luck, as in are you lucky enough to have connections. That is a crap system and no one there likes it. As @code65536 so eloquently put it:" they just take it"...

Ah it's not presidential elections and you don't need to bring up Empire of Evil to get more votes. You already said that the majority on forums supports you, so no reason to refer to this. I understand that they are brainwashed and once you bring up commies or russians or whatever, they will support you cuz they are anti-capitalism lol.

See, as you know I grew up in a former USSR country too. I wouldn't say that on big scale they don't reward your merit and everything is based on luck. Idk maybe it is like that in Russia, won't argue with that, you know better. But in general people with better education get better jobs, productive people get raised etc. Your "american" system looks more like whatever US has right now. More precisely - affirmative action. Oh, let's support this guy because he's from minority. Let's take this girl over that guy for our physics program - because it's unfair more than 50% of physics majors are guys. I disagree with this.

I'll say it again - your merit is rewarded. You get more "rolls" for every chest, you get your name on the leaderboard depending on your score. You just want that one item that was intended to be rare to be more accessible. Tbh, below is the crux of what you guys are saying. Or so it seems:

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I think the reason why youre not upset is because you have all the weapons...if you ran it 500 times and still didnt get the one you wanted, I doubt you'd feel the same way...

The reason you want another system is because you don't have all the weapons.

In the end, I don't care what's gonna happen. I'll stop playing when it stops being fun for me. When everyone runs absolutely the same gear/build might contribute to that. But who cares about me and players like me, who want diversity You just want your weapons and you will get them fast in the next DLC, my congratulations. I still think it's not better for the game overall. I do agree that RNG with useless traits has to be revised, though. But I don't think every single items in the game should be guaranteed to every player who can complete content. There can be a few that are exclusive which makes them rare and more awesome. Think of legendary weps or rare mounts (Ashes of A'lar or tiger, for example) in WoW.

1. I would bet you $100 that we are not a vocal minority.

2. Every DPS wants to maximize their DPS. The tanks dont need gear from there and the healers can benefit from a vMA staff, but its not a must have as there are alternatives. The same cannot be said for the DPS. DPS always cares about numbers (or at least those that are good and are trying to improve). Healers dont care about numbers because they need to be just good enough to make sure no one dies. they dont need high numbers to be good, they just need to make sure no one dies. 3-5% dps is a huge amount for a top end player for whom this arena was made. No one will agree with your assessment that it isnt a big deal. Dying or not dying has nothing to do with anything since it happens to you regardless of equipment. But i have had plenty of no death trial runs (vMoL is an exception), so 3-5% does matter.

3. Why hoard master weapons, what the harm of others having them? You have achievements to boast of your amazingness.

4. I love PvE I have never like PvP in any games I have played, just not my thing.

5. I disagree with Mashie's assessment. Plus there is more than one way to skin a cat.

6. Hehe wanna run ICP?

7. Because while good gear doesnt change a bad player, it does a bad player. there is a big difference between giving a regular person a ferrrari and giving a toyota to a racer VS the other way around. A good player will maximize the potential of gear and thus will benefit from it a lot more.

8. Yup
9. But having best gear wont get you into top raiding guild..for example CSH has a 35k dps minimum requirement on the Adjudicator. Who cares whether you bought or earned your gear, if you can't hit it you wont get in.... I guess i just want to sell my weapons and make money instead of sinking $$$ into that single player content piece.

10. I am all for hard to get stuff, but the reason we all want these staves is that there are no options. You mentioned identical builds, but who's fault was that? They dont give us alternatives, there is simply nothing better than a sharpened inferno vMA staff....that is it...why couldn't they have made lightning or ice viable for top dps? bad design.........

11. I want a guarantee of a reward at the end of a long grind...right now we simply do not have that. Btw In all the former soviet countries of today everything is based on who you know.

1. As you understand it's not an argument. But as of now we don't know whether you're a minority or majority.
2. 3-5% is nothing compared to ping/weaving/motion. Think again. And let's take DPS of 45k. 5% of that is 2250, 95% is 42750. So give or take 5% - it's not huge. Not gonna make or break anything.

3. Not related to my question. And titles don't matter much, since they don't affect your characters gameplay(?). As in, it's not something that you character HAS that makes his performance different. Title is just a title.

4.Try it, it can be fun.

5. Then? Use other weapons

6. Hahayes, I'll log in in a few minutes.

7. This is clear. But if skill>gear, then why should you care? As long as every other player is in the same condition.
9. But there are other guilds, not just top guilds. And there are other players, who want to feel like they aren't at a disadvantage compared to players with more money. They have real life for that lol
10. And even if they made it viable you'd want a staff from vma. Nah, it's their fault for sure, but why want to make it worse. I mean if they increase the drop rate or make it guaranteed you get weapons, it won't change the fact that there are no other options. So everyone will literally have the same gear and builds.
11. I agree, but not every single piece of gear should be guaranteed. Mmm, not sure I witnessed that everywhere, but might be the case more common than somewhere else.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

1. Judging by completion rates of the arena and by further analyzing the general RNG of the game we are a definite majority.

2. You are correct, I misstated its more like 5-10% then.

3. I honestly dont care wither weapons are BoP or not, im fine wither way...i would like a guarantee one afterr a certain requirement has been met (tokens or score or w/e)

4. Not my thing

5. No other competitive choices unfortunately...I wish there were though, but everything else is a huge loss. I wish there were unique combinations of gear you could make. there are some promising things in store in the next update but we need more diversity.

6.

7. But not every player, since some have gotten lucky and gotten the weapons of their choice...I still need mine..

9. Again not for or against BoP I personally would benefit from BoP removal so I am biased towards it...

10. But if they made ice or lightning viable I wouldnt complain as much. As it stands, for a magicka DPS the only thing you want out of there is a Sharpened (or for some precise) Fire Inferno staff. That is 1 or at best 2 options out of how many total weapon and trait combinations? The chance to acquire the weapon of your choice is astronomical for a magicka user.
At least for a stam user you can benefit from 2h/DW and Bow with either one of the traits (precise/sharpened) They ahve more options for gratification...we do not...I have 4 Lightning staves in both traits...decon material as of right now...that is bad design...

11. Gear should be guaranteed but behind a very tall wall of achievement, hard work and dedication....