The subject of treating non-subscribers like second class citizens sort of came up on reddit, so here is a cross post of mine, with "toned down" language:

“I subscribed as soon as my 30 day trial ended. That was 30 days after the game went live back in April of 2014. When the Crown Store was added, I went back and forth about which method of playing the game was better. I did like the idea of not having to pay monthly, but I also was playing the game a lot and was quite enjoying the 10% XP bonus and 10% extra gold. Having leveled up a VR16, a VR8 and six other VR1s, my subscription was a good investment. I would log in twice a day for all those yummy hireling emails and would bounce around the toons for all the crafting writs. I was kind of in crafting heaven.

“Then Imperial City came out. And I noticed that it was starting to take me a very long time to bounce around my characters to get hireling emails twice a day. It was taking me a long time to bounce around my characters to do crafting writs. What was once a 6-8 minute affair in the morning and evening for the emails became a 30 minute ordeal... sitting there... staring at the computer... waiting... waiting... waiting. I started to resent the game. These login delays were making it unfun to play.

“Going into Imperial City with the guild was also an ordeal. Over a minute to go through a door. Whoops, wrong door. Uh oh... a minute to get back out and then another minute to go through the right door. The game had become terrible to play. I finally tossed in the towel and walked away from the game with almost three months left on my subscription. Money not well spent. I felt bad that I was paying for it, but not playing it. I don't like wasting my money.

“Once my subscription lapsed, I felt a little sad that an era had gone, but I felt happy that I was also not paying to not play a game. That was when I decided that I would not subscribe again. The huge cluster-**** of absurdly-long wait times to do anything made that decision for me. If ZeniMax ****** up again, I could walk away until they fixed it and not think twice about it.

“I started to feel fine with not getting the perks, especially with the 50% XP bonus drink. I bought a bunch of Crowns during a sale so that I had a nest egg. I started to feel really good about owning rather than renting Wrothgar and Imperial City. I feel really good about owning Thieves Guild and will feel great about owning Dark Brotherhood. They are mine. They cannot be taken away due to a lapsed subscription.

“So ZeniMax has set up this alternate payment model, where I buy the content outright rather than renting it. It feels great. I do not feel the need to play because I need to get my money's worth. They have made a good deal of money from me and I have a game to play, transaction complete.

“Then they add this bottomless bag convenience item to ESO Plus. It feels a bit like a slap in the face that there is no Crown Store option. I fully understand the concept behind them wanting to encourage subscriptions, but their actions in the past with terrible quality control have discouraged me from ever considering it again. In fact, due to their actions, I have embraced the alternate payment model in spades but now find that I should have spent that money on a subscription instead if I had only known. Except they've proven that a subscription model is not ideal for the game-breaking quality control that they experience.

“You see the dilemma, right? I have paid my money. They made great money off of it. I am a master crafter with eight characters committed to the project. I do not have access to the crafting bag. It's a bit of a slap in the face because I choose to pay them one way versus another. I am not asking for a free ride. I've paid my money. I have my Crowns. I am willing to spend them because this is the alternate revenue model they have established.

“Yes, not subscribing allows people to freeload, but they are behind gates to new content. They also probably cannot buy anything from the Crown Store. They are essentially stuck in a pre-IC version of the game. That's fine. But some of us support the game financially, but do so on different terms than a subscription. We deserve better.

“Thank you and sorry for the rant.

“TL;DR - ZeniMax ****** up big and that switched me from the subscription model to the non-subscription model.”

From https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4h2wjz/crafting_bags/d2n8t0r

bmcxp wrote: »

So here is a question more towards the crafting Bag, in relation to a Guild Bank and its Guild leader or Guild Banker.
Is there a way to prevent Guild stored Mats from being mixed with the Guild Bankers personal Crafting Bag?
This is a concern when it comes to restacking Mat in the Guild Bank as they need to be placed in the bankers inventory temporarily, stacked and then transferred back to the Guild bank (Roomba). In the PTS those mats are automatically moved to the Crafting Bag and get mixed with the bankers personal stock.

What we need is a toggle to shut off the crafting bag for those that run Guild Bankers.

Hello, next version of Roomba is already handling this "issue", but I admit that the actual version shouldn't be used.

If It's not released for now, that's because of some new functions of the crafting bag which are for my point of view buggued, so just waiting if zos will fix them or if I should use my already wrote fix.

In any ways, i'll release fixed version ~ 15d before patch goes live.

Lysette wrote: »

The solution for it would be to change the guild bank so that it stacks items correctly - or that there would be an Y option, just like with the personal bank to stack items in the guild bank - this does not have to be part of the crafting bag, it is a missing functionality of the guild bank.

If there is no restack in Guild Bank, that's because if I remember well, of a security hole in the code meaning to a duplication exploit. So it'll remain disabled forever.

Works Perfectly in both Live and the PTS. Thank you.

Takuto wrote: »

Takuto wrote: »

Items are disappearing from my crafting bags. I have not created a template character.

Items in my crafting bag seem to disappear, seemingly at random -- not appearing in the bag or on crafting screens. They disappear after I pick that item up again and it highlights them as "new" but then disappear again after zoning. It isn't affecting all items, ie, i'm not only seeing "new" items, it simply seems to be affecting some. I noticed this while trying to find alchemy mats, and after noticing it checked my C150 crafting mats, and noticed that every single type except for itade runes were gone. Deconstructing an couple of items brought their materials back to the UI with the expected quantities.

Another piece of feedback, I don't feel that every time a QTY is updated, say from 1700, to 1701, that my crafting bag needs to be highlighted as having "new" items in it. Clicking over to the bag isn't clearing the items from new when I click back to my inventory, which is fairly annoying, and the crafting bag will *always* be highlighted seeing as nearly everything you do in the game accumulates materials.

Still suffering from this bug on PTS.

A few more details I've discovered since originally posting:
This bug is only affecting one of my characters, that character can only see certain items in the crafting bag if they are "New", and perhaps for a very short time afterward. After some time has passed, zoning, or relogging, the items have disappeared from my craft bag once again. The only way I can craft on this character is to pick up or collect a mat from somewhere, and then 'retrieve' the stack while it is marked as 'new'. Unfortunately, after relogging the items disappear from my inventory, presumably moving back to my crafting bags where they are once again invisible.

@Takuto Have you tried deconstructing anything? I had what appeao all characters. This includes items previously not available (such as gold tempers) that I did not receive any of when deconstructing.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

5k is more than appropriate. That's $40
It's literally the cost of the whole game.

Pretty sure I paid more than that for the initial game

nathan_bri wrote: »

The subject of treating non-subscribers like second class citizens sort of came up on reddit, so here is a cross post of mine, with "toned down" language:

“I subscribed as soon as my 30 day trial ended. That was 30 days after the game went live back in April of 2014. When the Crown Store was added, I went back and forth about which method of playing the game was better. I did like the idea of not having to pay monthly, but I also was playing the game a lot and was quite enjoying the 10% XP bonus and 10% extra gold. Having leveled up a VR16, a VR8 and six other VR1s, my subscription was a good investment. I would log in twice a day for all those yummy hireling emails and would bounce around the toons for all the crafting writs. I was kind of in crafting heaven.

“Then Imperial City came out. And I noticed that it was starting to take me a very long time to bounce around my characters to get hireling emails twice a day. It was taking me a long time to bounce around my characters to do crafting writs. What was once a 6-8 minute affair in the morning and evening for the emails became a 30 minute ordeal... sitting there... staring at the computer... waiting... waiting... waiting. I started to resent the game. These login delays were making it unfun to play.

“Going into Imperial City with the guild was also an ordeal. Over a minute to go through a door. Whoops, wrong door. Uh oh... a minute to get back out and then another minute to go through the right door. The game had become terrible to play. I finally tossed in the towel and walked away from the game with almost three months left on my subscription. Money not well spent. I felt bad that I was paying for it, but not playing it. I don't like wasting my money.

“Once my subscription lapsed, I felt a little sad that an era had gone, but I felt happy that I was also not paying to not play a game. That was when I decided that I would not subscribe again. The huge cluster-**** of absurdly-long wait times to do anything made that decision for me. If ZeniMax ****** up again, I could walk away until they fixed it and not think twice about it.

“I started to feel fine with not getting the perks, especially with the 50% XP bonus drink. I bought a bunch of Crowns during a sale so that I had a nest egg. I started to feel really good about owning rather than renting Wrothgar and Imperial City. I feel really good about owning Thieves Guild and will feel great about owning Dark Brotherhood. They are mine. They cannot be taken away due to a lapsed subscription.

“So ZeniMax has set up this alternate payment model, where I buy the content outright rather than renting it. It feels great. I do not feel the need to play because I need to get my money's worth. They have made a good deal of money from me and I have a game to play, transaction complete.

“Then they add this bottomless bag convenience item to ESO Plus. It feels a bit like a slap in the face that there is no Crown Store option. I fully understand the concept behind them wanting to encourage subscriptions, but their actions in the past with terrible quality control have discouraged me from ever considering it again. In fact, due to their actions, I have embraced the alternate payment model in spades but now find that I should have spent that money on a subscription instead if I had only known. Except they've proven that a subscription model is not ideal for the game-breaking quality control that they experience.

“You see the dilemma, right? I have paid my money. They made great money off of it. I am a master crafter with eight characters committed to the project. I do not have access to the crafting bag. It's a bit of a slap in the face because I choose to pay them one way versus another. I am not asking for a free ride. I've paid my money. I have my Crowns. I am willing to spend them because this is the alternate revenue model they have established.

“Yes, not subscribing allows people to freeload, but they are behind gates to new content. They also probably cannot buy anything from the Crown Store. They are essentially stuck in a pre-IC version of the game. That's fine. But some of us support the game financially, but do so on different terms than a subscription. We deserve better.

“Thank you and sorry for the rant.

“TL;DR - ZeniMax ****** up big and that switched me from the subscription model to the non-subscription model.”

From https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4h2wjz/crafting_bags/d2n8t0r

In the business world guaranteed, predictable profit is nice. It makes sense to give a reward first to those players that have dedicated to financially support the game every month. Just like practically everything else, you can be sure that some version of it will be made available to non-subscribers in the future. The crown store versions will probably have variable capacities.

"lordrichter wrote: »

I was expecting a crafting bag, not a crafting bank. The ESO Plus crafting bag would have been available to every character, but not shared between characters. The ESO Plus crafting bank extends that to the contents of the bag.

I have a gazillion crafting items in my bank, and with this bag, I have almost nothing in my bank.

Thanks for the clarification.

Because I craft on many many characters (I can't say 'all' but it's close) and do decon on all (and it is all), I would love the crafting "bank", and would likely not really use it so much if it was only "a bag".

The main benefit for me has to do with how I play. My highest character is v16 (recent) and my next two are respectively v10 and v2. I really really like to save all the weird set items that don't fit "this" character, but might be useful for "that" character, someday [tm].

I probably have at least 50-60 items that I keep mailing back and forth to myself (along with piles of mats, and crafted sets that I enhanced to purple and want to save to "hand me down"). It does get tiresome. So I would LOVE a shared crafting bag. *wipes away drool at the very thought*

"lordrichter wrote: »

1. I have invested in a 240 slot bank that I no longer need.
2. I have invested in individual bag space that I no longer need.

On various other threads, I have understood you to say that it is possible to level quickly, and to gain much money relatively quickly. My bank space is maxed at 170 on one account and 110 on the other, my characters average about 110-120 each. I'm mostly broke and constantly struggle with that. You (appear to) have had the benefits of your faster-than-mine income style.

As a die-hard hoarder, please trust me when I say that while I do anticipate an initial honeymoon period when I clear out the bank; I will soon (likely in a month or less) be back struggling with what I can decon and what incomplete-dropped-set-bits-at-various levels that I'm saving for other characters because they are so cool that I "just have to save them".

I love.. love.. love.. the crafting bag.. please don't "nerf it".

lordrichter wrote: »

All of my characters do crafting of one form or another and the bank is the common drop off. At 240 spaces, it is large enough to support crafting at all levels for everything except Alchemy and Provisioning. For those two, only the items that are shared between characters are in the bank, which really is not much. Note that I do not keep refined materials in the bank, only raw.

My bank is my common drop-off for all mats, then the clothier pulls the cloth stuff, and so on, leaving piles of style and trait stones to sit in the bank and occupy ... a lot of it. So at any given time someone has deconned to level some craft or other and has deposited a bunch. The pile of motif pages being saved for various people who haven't quite leveled such and so craft high enough to use them sits there, and .... lots of "not bound yet, saving it for the right character" as well as "bound, but don't want to throw it away because I might use it someday" and then there is the ever-growing "siege stuff that I bought while in Cyrodiil 'cause I forgot to pull anything out of the bank when I was at the keep" stuff (no, I do not own and never will "buy" a banker).

lordrichter wrote: »

when I collect too many crafting items, I sell what I don't need. I keep no more than 1 stack of anything in the bank. When I get that stack, I sell half of it.

Yes, on occasion I sell a stack of 25 style stones of food ingredients ... but never actual crafting mats for clothier/ woodcrafter/ or blacksmith... just ... never.

I don't bother with alchemy, too much of a pain in the parts - and before anyone asks I have a buddy who makes me pots when I need them on the condition that I use him as an alchemy ingredient dump (works for both of us).

I'm too much of a packrat to do what you do. Plus if I meet someone (pretty much of any level) who needs help, I can usually make them a quick set of Seducer or Night's Silence (yes, I'm way behind on my learning traits).

lordrichter wrote: »

P.S. - No, I do not do VR16 crafting. I do not want to encourage ZOS by participating in that form of insanity.

That's not really been relevant to me.

I see the Crafting bag as a good thing like how you reduced inventry load by removing quest trophies to a collection topic.

For me as a 6 monthly sub for the last 1.5 years it is a welcome extra.

I play 5+ Hrs a day and have no issue with the cost of the sub.

I understand the model for the Crafting bag is not fixed otherwise there would not be this specific thread requesting feedback and comments.

There are 2 comment I would like to add,

1. Posting items for sale in a guild store
My sales are 50+ items per day, mostly low value, this means I need look at other similar items for sale and find a Qty/price position interesting to a buyer. When the stores are full of items I want to sell then I look to sell something else.
To achieve this flexibility I keep all the items I want to sell on 1 character.
If the "Auto" move to crafting bag keeps getting triggered then this will become very tedious.

2. Managing guild bank items
As a guild Vice Leader I also manage the guild bank.
For this I use 1 character with very few items in their bag so I do not mix up things when I remove for restacking etc.
Also, as you are unable to split a stack within the guild bank, if you need to send some items to another player then removing a stack to your bag, splitting it, mailing the items to the player and then returning the rest to the guild bank needs to be supported without the transfer of these items to the Crafting bag.

Suggestion:
In the gameplay Menu, add a per character selection for Manual/Auto transfer to the Crafting Bag.
Within the Bank and Bag interfaces for each character display the Crafting Bag transfer Manual/Auto setting

I have read all the posts in this thread and believe this type of control would answer a lot of comments for this specific topic

code65536 wrote: »

bmcxp wrote: »

What we need is a toggle to shut off the crafting bag for those that run Guild Bankers.

Or, better yet, we need native guild bank stacking so that we don't have to go through this cumbersome process--even with the help of an addon--of transferring items in and out just to restack.

Exactly. It's been over two years since the game was released and we have not seen any improvements to the Guild membership, Guild Stores, or Guild banks that entire time, at least not that I can recall. It's about time the Guilds get some love from ZOS, right @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, and @ZOS_RichLambert?

For non-sub there already is a "craft bag". Its called your bank. All ZOS needs to do is remove the cap from bank and bag space. People can upgrade to infinity and beyond using gold or by using the crown store price of 1k for 10 bank slots. Same functionality as craft bag. Just that ESO+ now dosent need to worry about bank space cos 90% of what's in our bank is craft junk. A 150 slot bank is more than enough with craft bag.

A craft bag that comes out in Crown store would make the 1k for 10 bank/bag space look like a joke. Why the heck would you ever get 10 slots for 1k crowns when you can just get a craft bag. It would need to cost like 10k crowns to ever justify getting the 1k for 10 bag slots lol.

Vangy wrote: »

For non-sub there already is a "craft bag". Its called your bank. All ZOS needs to do is remove the cap from bank and bag space. People can upgrade to infinity and beyond using gold or by using the crown store price of 1k for 10 bank slots. Same functionality as craft bag. Just that ESO+ now dosent need to worry about bank space cos 90% of what's in our bank is craft junk. A 150 slot bank is more than enough with craft bag.

A craft bag that comes out in Crown store would make the 1k for 10 bank/bag space look like a joke. Why the heck would you ever get 10 slots for 1k crowns when you can just get a craft bag. It would need to cost like 10k crowns to ever justify getting the 1k for 10 bag slots lol.

The bank and inventory upgrades don't loose value if a crafting bag was crowns only.
Consider with the Vr restrictions changing, if you have alts, there will be a lot of inventory swapping thus the benefits of the bank NPC. Both will be very valuable but one is not enough, even with an increase because you wouldn't offer a bank increase to non-crafting bag only accounts. This comment doesn't make sense as it's not one or the other.

Any paying customer should be able to buy access, whether it be crowns or a sub.