Thoughst on the PTS Notes from a Farmer and Master Crafter

TerraPython · April 2016

@EZgoin76 - You are right, it doesnt matter who spends what. That is purely down to personal preference and budget.

But for all of us that do pay sub, I think you can see why we think it ought to be a sub only benifit.
- OR - at least something should be a sub only benifit, otherwise there is actually no point in subbing.

The two models only work together if they have unique benifits, IMO - the unique benifit of B2P is that you own the content, if you dont play for months on end, you can come back and STILL have all the content because you bought it. So B2P has more finincial flexibility.

For ESO+, if you stop paying the sub, you loose all DLC - (half the game at this stage). So we need a benifit that offsets that con. The crafting bag is the perfect benifit.

Maybe the bag should be available as a B2P item from the crowns, but as discussed in other posts, it would need to be time limited. Like X amount of crowns for 1month, (X-a) for 2 months, (X-b) for 3 months etc. You shouldnt be able to just buy the sub benifits for a fraction of the yearly cost.

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

I agree that the crafting bags shouldn't be exclusive, and it's absolutely a slap in the face to those of us who actually bought DLC's outright. I'm not rich and value owning things outright over having to pay an ongoing fee (and risk losing access to things I've paid for if I'm short on money any given month), which is why I didn't sub in the first place, and I'm not going to waste the money I spent on all the DLC's by going back on that now so I'm doubly committed to buying things outright.

I'm all for ESO Plus Members having some perks, but having this Crafting Bag be exclusive to Subscribers is a step too far, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of respect for players on the part of ZOS. I've invested just as much into this game as a subscriber and deserve to be treated accordingly by not being denied things that fundamentally change how the game is played as a result of my preferred payment method.

And the Crafting Bag is no minor thing, for any serious crafter (which I am) it's absolutely huge and completely alters the experience of playing this game in a dramatic way. Too much of my time is spent managing inventory space and not playing the game, and while I'm willing to put up with it as a cost of being a crafter, offering something like this that fixes everything but denying it to people who have been loyal customers just because they don't subscribe is a low blow.

And I am being denied these things, spending money on video games is already questionable when money is tight and I can't afford to waste money, and I'd be wasting a lot by subscribing now after already buying the DLC's. Unless ZOS wants to refund me the cost of the DLC's (in Cash, not Crowns) in exchange for me subscribing, that simply isn't going to happen under any circumstances (aside from winning the lottery or whathaveyou), and any game developer that tries to force me to waste my money just to play their game is a developer I'm inclined not to support.

This one thing isn't enough of an issue to make me stop playing and I won't be losing any sleep over it, but it's absolutely a *** move by ZOS not to also sell the Crafting Bag for Crowns independently. There aren't any other perks that Subscribers get that I'm overly bothered by, and as long as this stays the only one then I can live with it, but it's still a mistake and one which I believe is more likely to cost ZOS money and customers than it is to gain them.

I absolutely believe that relatively few people who weren't subbing before will start because of this, but I know for a fact that lots of people would buy it for crowns outright if given the opportunity to do so, myself very much included. Hopefully ZOS sees the error of their ways and does the sensible thing by selling it separately, but if not this sets a bad precedent which makes me less optimistic about this game's future, or that my money I spend on it will be respected.

Trying to offer your customers incentive to waste the money they've already spent by switching to a subscription is utterly lacking in respect for our money (which is what really matters to them the most so that's a questionable and troublesome thing to do to be sure), and whether this game is fun or not I will absolutely stop playing if that disrespect becomes any more pronounced.

If ZOS was going to have Subscriptions be so important to gameplay then they should have stuck with Subscription only, or if they wanted to switch then they should have switched completely away from any subscription. This is making me question even more the practicality of having both systems coexist, and if ZOS is going to keep offering such important features by Subscription only then they will continue to undermine their customers that have spent money directly on DLC's. And even if some people decide to waste their money and switch to a subscription after already having bought the DLC's, it's more than likely that lots of others like me will just be driven away entirely to find a game developer prepared to show us more respect.

NMT · April 2016

I don't understand what difference it makes to you. Crafting is not a competitive game.

You like the game now, how can a feature which had no effect on you that you have never experienced to miss bother you.

EZgoin76 · April 2016

TerraPython wrote: »

@EZgoin76 - You are right, it doesnt matter who spends what. That is purely down to personal preference and budget.

But for all of us that do pay sub, I think you can see why we think it ought to be a sub only benifit.
- OR - at least something should be a sub only benifit, otherwise there is actually no point in subbing.

The two models only work together if they have unique benifits, IMO - the unique benifit of B2P is that you own the content, if you dont play for months on end, you can come back and STILL have all the content because you bought it. So B2P has more finincial flexibility.

For ESO+, if you stop paying the sub, you loose all DLC - (half the game at this stage). So we need a benifit that offsets that con. The crafting bag is the perfect benifit.

Maybe the bag should be available as a B2P item from the crowns, but as discussed in other posts, it would need to be time limited. Like X amount of crowns for 1month, (X-a) for 2 months, (X-b) for 3 months etc. You shouldnt be able to just buy the sub benifits for a fraction of the yearly cost.

I can't remember @Gidorick s suggestions or anyone else's for that matter. Mine was to put limited space bags up for sale in the crown store or ... have an option to rent the unlimited bag in the crown store for 500 crowns a month. "Prices may vary." BTW I sub. Just think its dumb not to offer an alternative to non subs.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I'm not rich and value owning things outright over having to pay an ongoing fee (and risk losing access to things I've paid for if I'm short on money any given month), which is why I didn't sub in the first place
.../...
I've invested just as much into this game as a subscriber and deserve to be treated accordingly by not being denied things that fundamentally change how the game is played as a result of my preferred payment method.

If that is true, then why didn't you sub in order to get the crowns that you bought - and with which you can buy the DLCs ? You're just doing it wrong.

Listen everyone, instead of whining, use your brains a little bit.

You are ready to spend money on crowns. SUB instead !! You'll get crowns that way too AND the crafting bag.

Who wants to spend 15$ on crowns only when they can have THE SAME amount of crowns PLUS the bag PLUS the other ESO+ advantages for 15$ ???? Please explain ???

Subbing doesn't have to be a permanent thing, nor does it have to be a forever thing. If you sub JUST long enough to get the crowns you need to purchase the DLCs that's about 4 months/year and that's time when you can enjoy your crafting bag.

Problem solved.

Also note that subbing vs. just buying DLCs with crowns is NOT a difference in payment methods. THey are entirely different product packages and ZOS is perfectly entitled to modify them as they see fit.

Reevster · April 2016

Well, there will be a few who dont want to sub for the perks and new crafting bag, but there will be a whole lot more who will sub now mainly because of the crafting bag.

Money talks , people crying about not getting a crafting bag likely wont concern ESO too much if they bumped up their sub commitments by 50 percent.

But we all know that if and when subs start falling off again, if it does, they will put crafting bags in the crown store. If not sooner.

If they never ever put crafting bags in the crown store,I will be completely shocked, but very happy at the same time since I have always preferred the subbing system over BTP , for various reasons.

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I'm not rich and value owning things outright over having to pay an ongoing fee (and risk losing access to things I've paid for if I'm short on money any given month), which is why I didn't sub in the first place
.../...
I've invested just as much into this game as a subscriber and deserve to be treated accordingly by not being denied things that fundamentally change how the game is played as a result of my preferred payment method.

If that is true, then why didn't you sub in order to get the crowns that you bought - and with which you can buy the DLCs ? You're just doing it wrong.

Listen everyone, instead of whining, use your brains a little bit.

You are ready to spend money on crowns. SUB instead !! You'll get crowns that way too AND the crafting bag.

Who wants to spend 15$ on crowns only when they can have THE SAME amount of crowns PLUS the bag PLUS the other ESO+ advantages ???? Please explain ???

Subbing doesn't have to be a permanent thing, nor does it have to be a forever thing. If you sub JUST long enough to get the crowns you need to purchase the DLCs that's about 4 months/year and that's time when you can enjoy your crafting bag.

Problem solved.

Also note that subbing vs. just buying DLCs with crowns is NOT a difference in payment methods. THey are entirely different product packages and ZOS is perfectly entitled to modify them as they see fit.

I included my reasoning in that post and you even quoted it, still it goes over your head, huh?

Well, I don't subscribe to any video games, I've only been gaming as a consistent hobby for 5 years now roughly (I've always played games but not consistently with so much money being spent), and because money is tight I opted to go with Consoles for being more affordable than maintaining and upgrading a gaming PC over the course of years, and because they had all the games I really cared about.

I already have to Subscribe to Xbox Live just to play any game at all, but it's worth it because it's a yearly thing that doesn't cost too much. When I got this game it was clear to me that buying things was the way to go, in addition to the reasoning I explained in the post above I also like to switch between games and play nothing but one game before switching to another every few months.

I do so without planning ahead and having to juggle a subscription with my ability to switch between games whenever I see fit is a headache I didn't need, and I knew I'd be playing a lot so in the long run I'd likely pay less than a subscriber would, not a lot less but enough that the savings would be nice. And I don't buy a lot of extras, only stuff I really want or need, so crowns per month was not a big selling point, and still isn't.

Add all that reasoning together and it was the obvious choice to pass on the Subscription and buy things outright, just as I do and have done with every other game. Up until now there was never any doubt about that being the right call, but now I would at least consider a subscription if not for the prospect of wasting money. And it's not that I absolutely can't afford to waste that money, it's that I refuse to do so on principle, no one should have to be faced with that kind of choice about a video game.

If ZOS offered me a full refund in exchange for a subscription I wouldn't take it as the Subscription stands, the only thing that would make it worthwhile to me is the crafting bag, so I understand why Subscribers are so insistent that they get their money's worth. But the crafting bag being exclusive is going too far to appease Subscribers at the expense of everyone else, and believe me if I'd known about this Crafting Bag coming out before I bought the game then I would have gone with the Subscription instead.

But there was no indication when the game was released that anything like this would ever be released as an exclusive to Subscribers, and so I made the decision that made sense at the time. Now ZOS is changing the rules out from under us, making a Subscription more important than it's ever been, which provides incentive for people like me to waste our money that we already spent just so we can properly enjoy the game with features that should be available for everyone to buy independently.

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours. Obviously the situation is now changed, but hindsight is 20/20 and everything I did made perfect sense at the time, what doesn't make sense is that ZOS didn't consider this conflict as being more of an issue before announcing it. Nothing they ever do should in any way encourage their players to waste money they've already spent by making them buy something twice in two different ways, that's just stupid and is the only relevant example here of people not using their Brains.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours.

If you really think that buying 1500 crowns for 15$ is a better deal than buying 1500 crowns + ALL subscription benefits for 30 days all this for 15$, then your reasoning is not different, it's just plain wrong.

1500 crowns + benefits IS BETTER than 1500 crowns.

That's all there is to it. Is that so hard to see ?

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours.

If you really think that buying 1500 crowns for 15$ is a better deal than buying 1500 crowns + ALL subscription benefits for 30 days all this for 15$, then your reasoning is not different, it's just plain wrong.

1500 crowns + benefits IS BETTER than 1500 crowns.

That's all there is to it. Is that so hard to see ?

...wut even? That doesn't even make any sense, you're completely ignoring pretty much everything I said and focusing on one tiny part to argue against me, despise the fact that everything else I've said makes that argument irrelevant. Did you even read my whole post(s)? If not then why even bother responding? Some people.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours.

If you really think that buying 1500 crowns for 15$ is a better deal than buying 1500 crowns + ALL subscription benefits for 30 days all this for 15$, then your reasoning is not different, it's just plain wrong.

1500 crowns + benefits IS BETTER than 1500 crowns.

That's all there is to it. Is that so hard to see ?

...wut even? That doesn't even make any sense, you're completely ignoring pretty much everything I said and focusing on one tiny part to argue against me, despise the fact that everything else I've said makes that argument irrelevant. Did you even read my whole post(s)? If not then why even bother responding? Some people.

I did read. None of what you wrote makes this comparison invalid. You're free to waste your money irrationally as you see fit. Just don't come here and ask ZOS to adjust to that.

Everyone who declares/pretends to spend just as much money on crowns than they would have on subs should have no problems subbing from now on if they want the bags.

Everyone who spends less money on crowns that they would on subs should be fine with the fact that since they pay less they get less.

And everyone should get crowns via subbing instead of direct purchase since it's much more value for the same money (special sales excluded).

TerraPython · April 2016

Plus - if you can pay 6 months upfront it is even LESS, for more crowns, and the benifits

I dont know in $$, but in £ it is £2 cheaper to pay 6monthly.
£6.99 per month, instead of £8.99 per month. Seems even more worth it to me.

And in terms of justifying that as a cost - £41.94 every 6 months is cheaper than buying the latest new game every 6 months.
And thanks to ESO, I dont buy the latest games anymore - just my eso+

£6.99 per month = <£2 per week = NOT very much at all.

PS4_ZeColmeia · April 2016

Agree with all things said but still support the craft bag as the eso perk as it is attractive enough to push a sub. That said they should make more slots to buy for all

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours.

If you really think that buying 1500 crowns for 15$ is a better deal than buying 1500 crowns + ALL subscription benefits for 30 days all this for 15$, then your reasoning is not different, it's just plain wrong.

1500 crowns + benefits IS BETTER than 1500 crowns.

That's all there is to it. Is that so hard to see ?

...wut even? That doesn't even make any sense, you're completely ignoring pretty much everything I said and focusing on one tiny part to argue against me, despise the fact that everything else I've said makes that argument irrelevant. Did you even read my whole post(s)? If not then why even bother responding? Some people.

I did read. None of what you wrote makes this comparison invalid. You're free to waste your money irrationally as you see fit. Just don't come here and ask ZOS to adjust to that.

Everyone who declares/pretends to spend just as much money on crowns than they would have on subs should have no problems subbing from now on if they want the bags.

Everyone who spends less money on crowns that they would on subs should be fine with the fact that since they pay less they get less.

And everyone should get crowns via subbing instead of direct purchase since it's much more value for the same money (special sales excluded).

Except you're wrong, for several reasons. First you may get the same amount of crowns for less with a Subscription, but you have to wait months to get those crowns, meanwhile there's all sorts of stuff I wanted to buy right away and didn't feel like waiting to get (like Horse training, Inventory/bank Space, Imperial Edition, Nightmare Courser), so buying crowns outright was essential to get started, and after that buying a few more crowns to buy the DLC's as they come out just made sense. And like I said I switch between games irregularly so having to juggle a subscription with my inclination to switch back and forth every now and then would have been an extra headache I didn't need.

Also, as I said I expect to be playing this game for years and will eventually save money by not being subscribed, it hasn't happened yet but I already only buy crowns for DLC's and nothing else so it'll get there. You also said people that pay less are okay with it, and that's just nonsense. Many people disagree with the idea that the crafting bag should be exclusive, as I would regardless of how much money I've spent on crowns. Even if I were a subscriber I'd still say it wasn't okay, because logic is logic and it makes no sense for ZOS to provide incentives for people to waste their money, which is what this is whether I'd be wasting mine or not.

And ultimately you're missing the point entirely of this thread, which isn't about the worthwhile nature of subbing, but rather the unfairness of adding something this late in the game which is exclusive to Subscribers and as such undermines all the players who paid for their DLC's. Even people who want to switch can't do so without wasting money and essentially buying a whole bunch of content twice, which is seriously messed up.

And no, Subscription and buying outright are absolutely alternative payment methods, both methods involve paying money for content so by definition that's just the way it is, one way you're leasing the content and the other way you're buying it but they're still alternative ways of paying for the same things. You're right of course that there are differences in what you get and how you get it, and that ZOS is free to offer whatever it wants in either payment method, but I never said it was otherwise. I do admit that I get less for not being subscribed, but that's not an excuse for ZOS to offer whatever they want as part of a subscription without the rest of us being pissed off about it.

And in this case deservedly so, a crafting bag is in no way essential but it absolutely makes an enormous difference in gameplay, and it's not right that I should now be facing the prospect of buying content twice (and wasting money) in order to make use of what should be an independently sold feature.

Gidorick · April 2016

EZgoin76 wrote: »

TerraPython wrote: »

@EZgoin76 - You are right, it doesnt matter who spends what. That is purely down to personal preference and budget.

But for all of us that do pay sub, I think you can see why we think it ought to be a sub only benifit.
- OR - at least something should be a sub only benifit, otherwise there is actually no point in subbing.

The two models only work together if they have unique benifits, IMO - the unique benifit of B2P is that you own the content, if you dont play for months on end, you can come back and STILL have all the content because you bought it. So B2P has more finincial flexibility.

For ESO+, if you stop paying the sub, you loose all DLC - (half the game at this stage). So we need a benifit that offsets that con. The crafting bag is the perfect benifit.

Maybe the bag should be available as a B2P item from the crowns, but as discussed in other posts, it would need to be time limited. Like X amount of crowns for 1month, (X-a) for 2 months, (X-b) for 3 months etc. You shouldnt be able to just buy the sub benifits for a fraction of the yearly cost.

I can't remember @Gidorick s suggestions or anyone else's for that matter. Mine was to put limited space bags up for sale in the crown store or ... have an option to rent the unlimited bag in the crown store for 500 crowns a month. "Prices may vary." BTW I sub. Just think its dumb not to offer an alternative to non subs.

My suggestion @EZgoin76 (thanks for the tag by the way

) is for individual crafting bags for each craft...

back in April 2015 I suggested the following, and I still think it's a pretty sound idea that would work well as an alternative to a subscription:

Gidorick wrote:

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Note that there's a lot more to my thread than that one suggestion, I just isolated it here because that is really the part that is relevant to this discussion. The full thread can be found here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/limited-bags-crafting-bags-encumbrance-concepts/p1

Although my personal taste gravitates to the idea of there being inventory items that are bags that you can open and fill and move from inventory to bank back to inventory, ZOS could have it so that each one of these individual bags tags those specific items to go into the existing crafting bag. They could even sell a "Fisherman's Tacklebox" that would have bait put into the crafting bag as well. So it get comparable features as a non-ESO+ member you would need to spend 10,500 Crowns.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Except you're wrong, for several reasons. First you may get the same amount of crowns for less with a Subscription, but you have to wait months to get those crowns, meanwhile there's all sorts of stuff I wanted to buy right away and didn't feel like waiting to get (like Horse training, Inventory/bank Space, Imperial Edition, Nightmare Courser), so buying crowns outright was essential to get started, and after that buying a few more crowns to buy the DLC's as they come out just made sense. And like I said I switch between games irregularly so having to juggle a subscription with my inclination to switch back and forth every now and then would have been an extra headache I didn't need.

If you cannot wait to have useless stuff you want, and don't want to "manage" a subscription that's a two-click thing to do, well I guess yes, you have to go for the lesser deal. But that's your choice. It's doesn't make the lesser deal better.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And ultimately you're missing the point entirely of this thread, which isn't about the worthwhile nature of subbing, but rather the unfairness of adding something this late in the game which is exclusive to Subscribers and as such undermines all the players who paid for their DLC's. Even people who want to switch can't do so without wasting money and essentially buying a whole bunch of content twice, which is seriously messed up.

Stop this "forced to pay twice" nonsense. Most subbers I know use their crown allowance to buy the DLCs anyway in order to not be tied up by the sub and be free to unsub whenever they want. It's not buying twice, it's buying versus renting. It's got nothing to do with paying twice.
Subs are worthwhile for crowns alone !!! DLC access comes on top on that and the fact that you don't need it anymore is not relevant. And the crafting bag also comes on top of that !! If all this is not enough for you, then I really don't know what is.

You just want everything to be as you want. Be more flexible. Want the bag ? SUB. You'll still be free to unsub whenever you switch to another game and to resub when you're back. And if that's too much trouble for you, then I don't know what to say anymore.

BoloBoffin · April 2016

As a subscriber from day one, I think the OP has a point. I think an exception could be made for someone like the OP who owns all the DLC. If a new DLC drops and the person doesn't get it, then the bag operates just like a dropped subscription. But as soon as the person buys the new DLC, the bag is fully operational again.

Or perhaps if someone buys enough crowns as the equivalent of a subscription, then they get the bag. I get 1500 crowns a month. If someone buys at least 1500 crowns a month and purchases every DLC from that pot, then they should get a bag. Of course it would be cheaper to subscribe and then have all the DLC plus the crowns. But that's your choice.

Robbmrp · April 2016

They should make the Crafting Bags exactly like the DLC Costs. You get it free if your ESO + or you can use Crowns to buy them. Either way it's a win win as they are making money selling things.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

This whole arguement again? It doesn't matter what is said here at all. Zos will consider just one thing, which option will bring in more income.

1) People with subs are likely to buy crowns and drop their subs if the bag is for sale in the crown store, as the crowns from subbing are more expensive than buying, especially when crowns are on sale.
2) The hope is to get more people subbing.
3) If the bag ISN'T for sale in the crown store, some people who buy crowns to get DLC will drop the game.

That's pretty much it. Zos will evaluate and decide based on which option they think will result in more revenue. Everyone from both sides of the issue can argue all day, and it won't mean a thing.

Runs · April 2016

Qyrk wrote: »

For points 1 & 2:

Stop being a hoarder.

I've maxed all crafts, have all types of runes, alchemy reagent, style and trait materials, each stack of 200 for each provisioning ingredients, and other crafting materials, and CURRENTLY I still have spaces left for seige weapons, 2nd and 3rd sets of equipment and dropped goods to sell.

You don't like it? Then sub, easy as that.

***...

There are a total of at the very minimum 297 different crafting mats. There is no way you have a stack of each and room to spare in your bank, considering the bank only holds 240

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Except you're wrong, for several reasons. First you may get the same amount of crowns for less with a Subscription, but you have to wait months to get those crowns, meanwhile there's all sorts of stuff I wanted to buy right away and didn't feel like waiting to get (like Horse training, Inventory/bank Space, Imperial Edition, Nightmare Courser), so buying crowns outright was essential to get started, and after that buying a few more crowns to buy the DLC's as they come out just made sense. And like I said I switch between games irregularly so having to juggle a subscription with my inclination to switch back and forth every now and then would have been an extra headache I didn't need.

If you cannot wait to have useless stuff you want, and don't want to "manage" a subscription that's a two-click thing to do, well I guess yes, you have to go for the lesser deal. But that's your choice. It's doesn't make the lesser deal better.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And ultimately you're missing the point entirely of this thread, which isn't about the worthwhile nature of subbing, but rather the unfairness of adding something this late in the game which is exclusive to Subscribers and as such undermines all the players who paid for their DLC's. Even people who want to switch can't do so without wasting money and essentially buying a whole bunch of content twice, which is seriously messed up.

Stop this "forced to pay twice" nonsense. Most subbers I know use their crown allowance to buy the DLCs anyway in order to not be tied up by the sub and be free to unsub whenever they want. It's not buying twice, it's buying versus renting. It's got nothing to do with paying twice.
Subs are worthwhile for crowns alone !!! DLC access comes on top on that and the fact that you don't need it anymore is not relevant. And the crafting bag also comes on top of that !! If all this is not enough for you, then I really don't know what is.

You just want everything to be as you want. Be more flexible. Want the bag ? SUB. You'll still be free to unsub whenever you switch to another game and to resub when you're back. And if that's too much trouble for you, then I don't know what to say anymore.

Lol, I don't know what to say to you either, you're very opinionated without a whole lot to back it up. Just because someone has different priorities doesn't mean they're reasoning is any less sound than your own, and you're a fool if you think otherwise.

Yes this is absolutely about people having to buy content twice, for those of us who spent money already buying the DLC's before knowledge of this addition was released. And no I don't just want everything to be "how I want," I want it to be fair. Life may not be fair but video games absolutely should be for them to be worthwhile, and making me pay twice for something isn't fair.

No, I wouldn't have been buying DLC's with my crowns if I was subscribed, I would have bought more Inventory/bank space and riding lessons for all my characters first to get more value for my money and only buy DLC's when I had everything else I might want.

I didn't strictly need to spend all that money up front like I did, but that's no reason to call the stuff useless. I only play Imperials so that was extraordinarily useful, a mount is unquestionably useful (and cool), and don't even get me started on how useful the inventory space was, playing with no appreciable inventory or bank space was by far the least fun thing about this game when I started, and fixing that made getting into it astronomically more enjoyable. The fact that you'd even think to question the usefulness of these things makes me question if you're even capable of logical thought.

And as for waiting to buy those things, that wasn't even an option. You can't play Imperial without the Imperial Edition so that was essential, you can't get anywhere fast on foot (or a slow horse) and if I'd waited to buy a mount then I might as well have just bought one for gold, buying it right when I got the game was the only time buying a mount with crowns can be useful, and finally the riding lessons were a mixture of inventory space addition and actually making the horse I bought useful, and those lessons were only worth buying before you have a chance to level them up normally, obviously.

So everything I bought was very useful, and only would have been useful to buy when I did. More than that I honestly can't think of anything else to say, you're clearly convinced that you're right and aren't receptive to any argument against what you believe, so there just isn't any point in arguing about it any further.

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

Just going to pop in for a couple of comments.

1. Space is limited. In all games. Space was a huge issue before you started playing. Imagine twice as many ingredients for provisioning and stacks only going to 100. You had to make choices about what and how much to keep, which of course led to mule characters. Once they changed the system it freed up a lot of space, which quickly got filled with more stuff. lol. But it's okay. I have every craft maxed with tons of materials with just a quick character switch to craft a set of equipment.
2. Nodes were kind of cool before. But the change to crafter and character level is understandable in battle leveled areas. Doesn't affect me nor most people I know, because we grind out our crafters to vet levels. I did enjoy the perk of max crafter farming over people who never crafted (hate sharing nodes).
3. Potency runes available in stores is a good idea. And having essence and aspect drop from every node is probably good. They are making potency runes drop about 1 in 3. My concern will be for people leaving Ta in nodes and locking it up.

TLDR: It's fine. Manage resources and let subs actually have something special and useful.

EZgoin76 · April 2016

Really people?!? Do you all read the previous post, or just reply to the last post? Instead of bickering over who pays what. Why not try thinking about and debating solutions that both sides can be happy with?

rotaugen454 · April 2016

Runs wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

For points 1 & 2:

Stop being a hoarder.

I've maxed all crafts, have all types of runes, alchemy reagent, style and trait materials, each stack of 200 for each provisioning ingredients, and other crafting materials, and CURRENTLY I still have spaces left for seige weapons, 2nd and 3rd sets of equipment and dropped goods to sell.

You don't like it? Then sub, easy as that.

***...

There are a total of at the very minimum 297 different crafting mats. There is no way you have a stack of each and room to spare in your bank, considering the bank only holds 240

I have two mules. I upgraded their bank space and horse carrying capacity. Is it ideal? No, but it works. Like the other person, I have every mat available and still have room left over. The horse upgrades alone added 120 slots. Then the upgraded bags added even more, along with maxing bank space. I have over 3000 Rubedite Ingots as an example. People say they can't be bothered and want the bag. I understand, but it ends up being a convenience item, it isn't necessary. And like I said earlier, no arguement that anyone makes will matter either way. Zos will decide strictly on income.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Really people?!? Do you all read the previous post, or just reply to the last post? Instead of bickering over who pays what. Why not try thinking about and debating solutions that both sides can be happy with?

There's no way non-sub people will be happy unless they have a solution that is at least as good if not better than the bag subs have, and that would completely devalue the sub package again.
So there's no solution.

Especially since the bag is a RENTAL offer and non-sub people want a ONE-TIME PURCHASE feature.

Nothing to reconcile here.

nathan_bri · April 2016

TL;DR — Crown Store Materials Bag

Not everyone buys Crowns instead of subscribing because they want to “stick it to ZeniMax.” Some of us simply do not want to feel like we are wasting our monthly subscription if we are not logging in every chance we get. Buying the game a la carte allows us the freedom to not play from time to time because we know the game will still be there waiting for us when we get back, with all the content we’ve permanently unlocked ready and waiting.

ZeniMax has stated they want us to be able to play the way we want to play, whether that means subscribing or not. Giving us the option to not subscribe, but to buy the game a la carte as we wish, set up many players to bulk purchase Crowns like the OP and I did. We were fine with losing the existing ESO Plus perks. It was worth the tradeoff for us at the time; we went into our purchasing style with that up-front knowledge.

I can understand why ZeniMax wants to reward players who subscribe, but they need to consider addressing those who wish not to subscribe because they prefer purchasing the game a different way. Otherwise, non-subscribers are being unfairly punished for buying the game in a way that was promoted and even encouraged to an extent by ZeniMax when the Crown Store was initially released.

Please make the bottomless, shared materials bag available for purchase on the Crown Store, even if it is 5000 or more Crowns like the new assistants. I would buy it in a heartbeat even if it were 10,000 Crowns as I sit looking at the 18,000+ Crowns sitting there doing nothing on my account.

ZOS_DaryaK · April 2016

We've removed the comments from this thread that did not contribute anything constructive to the conversation. Please remain respectful of each other. We're also moving this to the PTS forum.

Masstershake · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Really people?!? Do you all read the previous post, or just reply to the last post? Instead of bickering over who pays what. Why not try thinking about and debating solutions that both sides can be happy with?

There's no way non-sub people will be happy unless they have a solution that is at least as good if not better than the bag subs have, and that would completely devalue the sub package again.
So there's no solution.

Especially since the bag is a RENTAL offer and non-sub people want a ONE-TIME PURCHASE feature.

Nothing to reconcile here.

So just having the crafting bag for free isnt a perk by itself? You need to know that non subs can't purchase it too?

Seriously it shouldn't affect subscribers one bit if a one time purchase player can purchase the bag. You still get it for free with your payment method

I think those assistants should have been free for subscribers as well.

Nestor · April 2016

linlilia wrote: »

And yes this has to do with the the exclusivity of the Craft Bags,

Sorry, I am going to deflate your argument right here.

I am a Master Crafter (on several characters even) and Crafting Bags are not even part of the equation for me right now. Anyone can be a Master Crafter and handle the inventory with the way the game currently is right now. I do, and I have mats for every level in every profession, including Raw Mats.

Nobody needs Crafting Bags to be a Master Crafter or handle the inventory that is required to make anything for any level character at any time.

Nothing is being taken away from non subscribers by offering Crafting Bags to subscribers.

Pomaikai · April 2016

I'm a farmer, master crafter, and an ESO+ member. I'm not sure why you seem to imply that they're mutually exclusive.

Elridge · April 2016

I would say do the same with craft bags as they do DLC, have the option to buy the ability outright. As for it being a bonus for subs, well.. subs kinda need some sort of bonus, the current bonuses to be honest don't mean much at end game. The 10% xp bonus is nice, but not much for a 15$ a month sub. The crafting xp bonus? Not much point to leveling multiple crafters other then for writs since motifs can only be used on one character. IMO they are just minor bonuses to getting a monthly allowance of crowns haha.

TL;DR I agree with the people who think ZoS should allow the benefit (craft bags) to be sold in the crown store much like the assistants.