Thoughst on the PTS Notes from a Farmer and Master Crafter

Sallington

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I have to say, reading through this thread makes me really worry about this games community. There is so much poison and entitlement in this thread, it´s just crazy.

People who sub, see themselves as superior and the reason why ESO exists, which is a flawed logic as being a sub is a 10 bucks investment a month, an amount of money that a F2P user can easily overcome by buying a single cosmetic item or a DLC.
That elitism is always a problem at these type of F2P games. Those who invest feel superior to those, who do not, or better put, they feel like they need a reason to be treated better than everyone else, after all they pay their monthly fee or for char slots, bank space ...

I find that attitude very sad, as a game can not survive alone by those that sub, or use the shop. A game is a community and it requires everyone to contribute. Some will contribute with real money investments, others with a steady sub and again others don´t pay anything, but are still the ones who tank for you or trade an item with you.


There was a game once, one guy I knew was our main tank, he was full F2P, never invested and yet did a good job. One day, the company released something that made it easier for tanks, but it was a pay to use thing. He couldn´t pay, so he complained at the forum, just like the OP does here. He was insulted and called names, as it was in the eyes of the others, not ok that he had the beneifts as well, since he did not pay. In the end, he left the game and several others tanks followed him. Shortly after, more and more threads occurred, where people complained about the lack of good tanks, many of them were former elitists who felt superior as they paid.

So yes, trying to exclude others, just because you feel superior will never work out. One day, you might need exactly this person who you formerly insulted.


In my opinion, everything in a shop should be free, free if you want to really play for it. Bag space can easily be unlocked by achievements or challenges in an MMO, there is no need to make them only available for those who invest, especially since the OP does invest in DLC´s, which is actually more money than those who pay a sub alone. In the end, it is quite sad that Elitism is so wide spread these days, games should be played together, but it seems like everyone want´s to gain an edge over the other, either by being a sub, a raider or some hero in pvp.

And this is why F2P is the cancer killing the MMO market/community at large.

Keep the subscriptions, keep everyone on equal footing. F2P and MMOs just do not work.

I suppose it's a good job this is B2P and not F2P.

Semantics with a $10-$20 box price. The model is exactly the same as to how they make their money.

Tommy1979AtWar

Sallington wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I have to say, reading through this thread makes me really worry about this games community. There is so much poison and entitlement in this thread, it´s just crazy.

People who sub, see themselves as superior and the reason why ESO exists, which is a flawed logic as being a sub is a 10 bucks investment a month, an amount of money that a F2P user can easily overcome by buying a single cosmetic item or a DLC.
That elitism is always a problem at these type of F2P games. Those who invest feel superior to those, who do not, or better put, they feel like they need a reason to be treated better than everyone else, after all they pay their monthly fee or for char slots, bank space ...

I find that attitude very sad, as a game can not survive alone by those that sub, or use the shop. A game is a community and it requires everyone to contribute. Some will contribute with real money investments, others with a steady sub and again others don´t pay anything, but are still the ones who tank for you or trade an item with you.


There was a game once, one guy I knew was our main tank, he was full F2P, never invested and yet did a good job. One day, the company released something that made it easier for tanks, but it was a pay to use thing. He couldn´t pay, so he complained at the forum, just like the OP does here. He was insulted and called names, as it was in the eyes of the others, not ok that he had the beneifts as well, since he did not pay. In the end, he left the game and several others tanks followed him. Shortly after, more and more threads occurred, where people complained about the lack of good tanks, many of them were former elitists who felt superior as they paid.

So yes, trying to exclude others, just because you feel superior will never work out. One day, you might need exactly this person who you formerly insulted.


In my opinion, everything in a shop should be free, free if you want to really play for it. Bag space can easily be unlocked by achievements or challenges in an MMO, there is no need to make them only available for those who invest, especially since the OP does invest in DLC´s, which is actually more money than those who pay a sub alone. In the end, it is quite sad that Elitism is so wide spread these days, games should be played together, but it seems like everyone want´s to gain an edge over the other, either by being a sub, a raider or some hero in pvp.

And this is why F2P is the cancer killing the MMO market/community at large.

Keep the subscriptions, keep everyone on equal footing. F2P and MMOs just do not work.

I suppose it's a good job this is B2P and not F2P.

Semantics with a $10-$20 box price.

not really as I paid way more at launch for an imperial edition, F2P means free to play, unless you're running a cracked version or zos has suddenly decided to give the game away for zero profit then it's still B2P.

EZgoin76

The simplest solution I've seen so far is just increasing bank and/or inventory slots for everyone thus making the crafting bag truly a convenience item.

Taleof2Cities

Nestor wrote: »

Sorry, I am going to deflate your argument right here.

I am a Master Crafter (on several characters even) and Crafting Bags are not even part of the equation for me right now. Anyone can be a Master Crafter and handle the inventory with the way the game currently is right now. I do, and I have mats for every level in every profession, including Raw Mats.

Nobody needs Crafting Bags to be a Master Crafter or handle the inventory that is required to make anything for any level character at any time.

Nothing is being taken away from non subscribers by offering Crafting Bags to subscribers.

@Nestor and I certainly don't agree on everything ... but this is a great post.

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited



If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

Tevalaur

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Tevalaur wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

240 bank plus 200 personal equals a lot of spaces to craft. The other spaces mentioned are for long term storage. When you are ready to craft, you move the needed items to the bank for use. It is in fact a very good example of why crafting bags are a convenience item.

idk

OP. ESO, with the addition of the crafting bag as a sub perk still fits the bill with why you chose to play this game as a non-sub. Especially the part where it doesn't effect game play.

As far as anything else you said I stopped reading as long posts are usually overly wordy making them lose clarity of thought and just give me a headache. I prefer posts that are good at getting to the point end describing their thoughts in an organized manner.

Tevalaur

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

240 bank plus 200 personal equals a lot of spaces to craft. The other spaces mentioned are for long term storage. When you are ready to craft, you move the needed items to the bank for use. It is in fact a very good example of why crafting bags are a convenience item.

Oh... How dare I actually use my other character slots for actual playing character variations or to run with friends in other alliances... I should have known they were reserved for storage.

Or the fact that my master crafter is my main character that I play... she's supposed to use her inventory to hold materials not set pieces or items she picks up while she runs!

hehoolaughs

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Craft Bags
ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.

• Craft Bags are an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on the account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
  
• If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it.
• Loot that goes to your Craft Bag has a special call out in the Loot History.
  
• Crafting Materials from your inventory and account bank will automatically go to the Craft Bag upon login.
• Items can be manually retrieved from the Craft Bag in maximum stacks of 200. Retrieved items can also be manually stowed back into the Craft Bag.

Just thought I would point out that a "dedicated non-subscriber" could pay $14.99 for a month's worth of time with a crafting bag; if a person has already saved up a bunch of mats they would automatically transfer into the bag at that time and then there would be 30 days which could be spent efficiently farming/harvesting to the heart's desire.

After the 30 days expire the crafter in question would still have access to items in the bag. The only disadvantage is that new items could not be added. The crafter could go about his or her merry way using the bank/bag space already provided in game until it becomes worthwhile to buy access for another month at a later time.

I did go through and read most of each post in this thread; most of the arguments on both sides of the "sub v non-sub" debate seem pretty juvenile. Settle it in Cyrodiil guys.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Tevalaur wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

240 bank plus 200 personal equals a lot of spaces to craft. The other spaces mentioned are for long term storage. When you are ready to craft, you move the needed items to the bank for use. It is in fact a very good example of why crafting bags are a convenience item.

Oh... How dare I actually use my other character slots for actual playing character variations or to run with friends in other alliances... I should have known they were reserved for storage.

Or the fact that my master crafter is my main character that I play... she's supposed to use her inventory to hold materials not set pieces or items she picks up while she runs!

Play as you want. 8 character slots is quite a lot. If you can't spare a few you are in luck. Coming soon to a crown store near you more character slots!

Or you could join or create a crafting guild to store things in. I know it's strange, but in an MMO you can actually be social. Those "friends" can even help you out by joining your guild and help contribute to common goals like crafting.

Heck, you can even make multiple accounts and make a guild with just yourself and alts in it.

The point is, there are plenty of options. Even if you do play all 8 slots, you probably don't play them all at once. You can move stuff around as needed. Yes it's Inconvenient. But that's it inconvenient.

Dixa

I find it difficult to emphasize with the free to play crowd.

Maybe it has to do with my playing online multiplayer rpg's since 1993 before they had graphics, or the fact that I am older and I know that the people who sit at their desks and monitor these boards and make this game don't do so for free that I find myself involuntarily shaking my head when I read such a thread.

If you like this game, give it money. It deserves your 15 a month. If you can not afford 15 a month, you MUST re-evaluate your real world financial status. 15 a month is NOT a hardship in the western world. You pay more for your internet access. You pay more to see a movie ONCE. You pay more for nearly every other form of entertainment.

The crafting bag belongs to subbers. NO, you don't get a crown version because that would IMMEDIATELY label the game "pay to win" by the morons masses. If you are getting this much enjoyment out of this game, give this game some money.

There is no counter argument you can make that will dissuade me of this opinion, or that would even make logical sense to the non-entitled generation really.

nathan_bri

Dixa wrote: »

I find it difficult to emphasize with the free to play crowd.

Not to be too pedantic, but it's actually “buy to play.” Beyond that, many of us are still paying money to ZeniMax, but under different terms... not month to month like a subscriber, but in bulk as we feel we want Crowns to spend.

Abeille

Tevalaur wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

240 bank plus 200 personal equals a lot of spaces to craft. The other spaces mentioned are for long term storage. When you are ready to craft, you move the needed items to the bank for use. It is in fact a very good example of why crafting bags are a convenience item.

Oh... How dare I actually use my other character slots for actual playing character variations or to run with friends in other alliances... I should have known they were reserved for storage.

Or the fact that my master crafter is my main character that I play... she's supposed to use her inventory to hold materials not set pieces or items she picks up while she runs!

I'm a master crafter, I have eight characters and none of them are mules. Each of them holds a few material stacks, so none of them becomes "unplayable" because of that.

It is certainly not impossible. It is a matter of organization.

Mix

Yes the crafting bag is awesome and a huge convenience to subscribers, but there are alternative ways to manage inventory (what we all do on live right now).

Being a subscriber, I am very happy to see a bonus that is actually unique to subscribing. I have been debating my sub for awhile. We only "rent" the DLC. It is not cheaper to sub and get crowns than it is to buy crowns on sale. The other ESO plus bonuses would be easy for me to live without seeing as how much they cost me (XP, extra gold, inspiration; I am max level, gold is easy enough to come by and I have done all the research).

They don't often release vanity items that I "must" have and prior to the Bank Assistant I had 12k crowns just sitting there. I buy the guars and guar/lizard/etc themed pets, the occasional costume but if I can get it in game like motifs I choose to get it in game.

The crafting bag really makes the sub an easy decision to keep.

Many of the people here have stated they spend to buy crowns for things, but I do wonder how many of the community doesn't spend much (or anything) on crowns. Luring more subs with the crafting bag may be to draw in those who don't see value in the vanity items but only go for convenience stuff (like Assistants, and possibly riding/bag/bank upgrades to save time/gold).

All this being said it is incredibly game changing, I do so much inventory management right now and on the PTS I don't have to do any of that. I don't have to keep gear on mules or lower level craft mats on mules. Perhaps they could sell a limited space crafting bag for Crowns.

To any not on the pts: the crafting bag stacks every over 2000 (i haven't checked max stack size yet) and seems to have more slots than crafting mat types exist in game. If they sold a crafting bag with exactly the number of slots/crafting items in game and then capped the stack size at 400 for instance, it would give non-subs the same sort of convenience but not unlimited convenience. (and to be clear if you decided not to keep one of every crafting item then you could fill your bag with as many stacks of 400 crafting items that you choose. I have no doubt that the Crown Crafting Bag would be very expensive, thus forcing you to debate sub vs. crown buying)

EZgoin76

Come on ZOS. Start offering more bank space or some sort of personal crafting bags with limited space in the crown store for non subs. Or just up the amount of bank space that you can buy in the game to match the amount of all the new mats that have been introduced.

If you do this, then this thread would be a non-issue.

Capsaica

Tevalaur wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Before players come to the forums claiming "no room anymore", I advise a quick check that the current bank space in the game is being fully utilized:

8 characters with purchased bag upgrades (up to 140 each character) = 1,120
Mount bag space upgrades (8 mounts x 60) = 480
Personal Bank space (with upgrades) = 240

Total: 1,840

Personal Guild Banks (unlimited number of banks) = 500 each; unlimited

If a player doesn't have any personal guild banks, we're still approaching 2,000 inventory slots ... not including the crafting bags.

The problem with your calculations is that most of those are NOT available at a crafting station on your crafter. To be a fair comparison with the immense utility and gameplay advantage of the crafting bag, only the shared bank should be counted. And it tops out at 240 spaces.

240 bank plus 200 personal equals a lot of spaces to craft. The other spaces mentioned are for long term storage. When you are ready to craft, you move the needed items to the bank for use. It is in fact a very good example of why crafting bags are a convenience item.

Oh... How dare I actually use my other character slots for actual playing character variations or to run with friends in other alliances... I should have known they were reserved for storage.

Or the fact that my master crafter is my main character that I play... she's supposed to use her inventory to hold materials not set pieces or items she picks up while she runs!

While I understand and empathize with some of your concerns from your original post, I would argue that it is entirely possible, if not horribly convenient, to manage exactly what you are frustrated about above.

I too have 8 character slots (as do we all at the moment). My main is my master crafter. Fully leveled in everything except enchanting. I realized early on that I should, perhaps, level enchanting on another character. Thus, one of my bank toons became a master enchanter. ALL enchantment mats are stored on this toon. I still leveled her up to VR1. I figured out a lot later (over a year) that I should probably move provisioning over to someone else to. I did that and he now stores all of my provisioning mats. He is also now VR1. With the changes to crafting that they made a while back, it is so much easier to level the crafts up than they used to be.

My main still crafts gear and potions, although all of my characters that I play actively have Alchemy leveled up anyway. I keep key crafting mats in the bank, and extras are spread out amongst other characters. Everyone carries a bit and it works just fine. I effectively have 6 fully playable characters and if I want to play one of my crafters, I can shift the burden from them to another toon for a while and there you go. All fixed. Convenient? Perhaps not. Playable? Absolutely.

As a subscriber from day one, I am happy to see that they are trying to bring value back to having a subscription. It is not that I don't want others to have access to this too. It is that I see this as a way for ESO to bring more people back into keeping subscriptions, therefore more "guaranteed" income. This means that ESO continues to be a profitable game and it continues to exist for myself and everyone else to play. It is a way to bring value to the subscription without giving a competitive advantage to subscribers over non-subscribers.

helediron

So, how about RENTABLE crafting bag from crown store? Rent-a-bag for x months for 5000 crowns. Set the x so it feels fair to subs and nonsubs.

anitajoneb17_ESO

helediron wrote: »

So, how about RENTABLE crafting bag from crown store? Rent-a-bag for x months for 5000 crowns. Set the x so it feels fair to subs and nonsubs.

If they do that then they must offer an option to "rent" or "earn" such a feature in the game. All convenience items in the crown store have an ingame counterpart. It should remain that way.

TheValkyn

Crafting Bags are a non-factor for smart (and frugal) players. Are there even 500-2500 mat types in the game?

Aimora

hehoolaughs wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Craft Bags
ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.

• Craft Bags are an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on the account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
  
• If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it.
• Loot that goes to your Craft Bag has a special call out in the Loot History.
  
• Crafting Materials from your inventory and account bank will automatically go to the Craft Bag upon login.
• Items can be manually retrieved from the Craft Bag in maximum stacks of 200. Retrieved items can also be manually stowed back into the Craft Bag.

Just thought I would point out that a "dedicated non-subscriber" could pay $14.99 for a month's worth of time with a crafting bag; if a person has already saved up a bunch of mats they would automatically transfer into the bag at that time and then there would be 30 days which could be spent efficiently farming/harvesting to the heart's desire.

After the 30 days expire the crafter in question would still have access to items in the bag. The only disadvantage is that new items could not be added. The crafter could go about his or her merry way using the bank/bag space already provided in game until it becomes worthwhile to buy access for another month at a later time.

I did go through and read most of each post in this thread; most of the arguments on both sides of the "sub v non-sub" debate seem pretty juvenile. Settle it in Cyrodiil guys.

This for people who don't want to sub! Spend a month filling up you bags, unsub use, when you feel you want to refill resub, rinse and repeat!

Tevalaur

Why not just acknowledge the entire game needs corrections to bank/inventory management? After all, that's why so many over the years have clambered for a solution which ZOS unveils as a crafting bag -- but they then only make available for subscribers without offering another alternative for other players. Did ZOS forget that they had decided to remove the game from a subscriber model and go with a B2P model?

ZOS's business model involves both crown purchases from non-subscribers and subscriptions instead of just offering a subscription-based game. When they went that direction ZOS acknowledged that both types of supporters have value. But now they decided to give subscribers a distinct advantage over their other supporters who have no access to a such a significant bank/inventory management mitigation feature. Since they announced they're only fixing the bank/inventory issue for subscribers, the forums seem to have become filled with an "us vs them" mentality. <sarcasm>Good job, ZOS.</sarcasm>

Based on the number of people that suggest subbing for one month then cancelling and only doing so every few months, ZOS certainly can't count on anyone paying them anything; subbing is not a more reliable source income when it's voluntary instead of the only way to access a game. The ESO+ elite should stop pretending all subscriptions are actual subscriptions instead of just tossing them $15 a couple of times per year which somehow makes some "subscribers" feel superior to those that may spend far more but never subscribe.

Earlier I looked back through my check register and found I'd spent $267 on ESO since mid-December. Don't tell me "buy a subscription to support the game" -- I have supported the game! I've done so for at least the level of an annual sub, let alone many of those people that suggest subbing for a month here and there. My support and the support of others like me should be valued, but it seems like we're instead being slapped in the face by the exclusivity of the "solution for crafters."

If the solution for non-subscribers is not to pay for the crafting bag which subscribers get for free, then larger bank space or at least limited versions of the crafting bag should be considered. In my opinion, either the maxxed bank should hold at least one stack of each crafting material and grow as they add more materials or the crafting bag should be available to all in some form.

Or maybe ZOS should offer an ESO+ Lite version which would not offer crowns and would not offer DLCs but would offer the other benefits such as the crafting bag for something like $2.99/month.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tevalaur wrote: »

Earlier I looked back through my check register and found I'd spent $267 on ESO since mid-December.

May I ask why you don't sub ?

Tevalaur

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Earlier I looked back through my check register and found I'd spent $267 on ESO since mid-December.

May I ask why you don't sub ?

Sure, and you can read back for your answer Or I'll summarize with my expenses are unpredictable as I'm disabled and I spent Christmas gifts and do buy crowns on occasion when the budget is looking good but can't predict the future well enough to ensure I can always afford the ongoing cost of subscription, even at $15/month. When I started making crown purchases I didn't realize you could prepay multiple months at a time, now it's a bit late as I'm heavily invested in the crown model instead of the sub model.

If they were to offer a "Lite" sub without the included crowns or DLCs and just included the "other perks" of subscribing including the crafting bag for something like $2.99/month, that I could certainly go for.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tevalaur wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

Earlier I looked back through my check register and found I'd spent $267 on ESO since mid-December.

May I ask why you don't sub ?

Sure, and you can read back for your answer Or I'll summarize with my expenses are unpredictable as I'm disabled and I spent Christmas gifts and do buy crowns on occasion when the budget is looking good but can't predict the future well enough to ensure I can always afford the ongoing cost of subscription, even at $15/month. When I started making crown purchases I didn't realize you could prepay multiple months at a time, now it's a bit late as I'm heavily invested in the crown model instead of the sub model.

If they were to offer a "Lite" sub without the included crowns or DLCs and just included the "other perks" of subscribing including the crafting bag for something like $2.99/month, that I could certainly go for.

With all due respect to your personal constraints, if you can afford 267$ in 4 months, you sure can manage to secure 15$ a month, that's not too scary.
But... your money, your choice.

Tevalaur

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

With all due respect to your personal constraints, if you can afford 267$ in 4 months, you sure can manage to secure 15$ a month, that's not too scary.

Nope. Not that you know all the constraints I have, but I get Christmas gifts from family that I need to spend at such time so they don't count as "resources" that would make me lose my disability coverage.

So I basically can spend large amounts at Christmas and around my birthday and not really at other times as my monthly disability benefit is under the poverty threshold.

In most months I could never dream of going to the movies or buying Starbucks coffees or any of the other assumptions folks have made. I just love how many folks here are telling me how to manage money as if I'm stupid when they don't know anything about my budget or reasoning.

Aimora

Then the 6 months Sub sounds like it could be a great deal for you

Tevalaur

Aimora wrote: »

Then the 6 months Sub sounds like it could be a great deal for you

Maybe, if my birthday were 6 months away from Christmas... But since they're far closer together, no it's not. And since I've just learned they don't offer an annual subscription, I guess I can never plan to be a regular subscriber.

Enough already with the "just subscribe"... if you've read what I posted you can see that I cannot even if I wanted to. Plus I've already heavily invested in the crown model instead of the subscriber model, so without an ESO lite subscription offer it would not make sense for me even if I could budget it.

Dagonthir

I think it would be reasonable to either make more bank space available or "rent" (ie. pay per month) the crafting bag. If someone could get the crafting bag for say, $5 a month, then they could rent it when they need it. As a subscriber already, I'd personally have no problem wtih this for non-subscribers.

Yusuf

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

You're damn right I have a problem with that, nor do I care if you think I'm not using my brain just because my reasoning is different than yours.

If you really think that buying 1500 crowns for 15$ is a better deal than buying 1500 crowns + ALL subscription benefits for 30 days all this for 15$, then your reasoning is not different, it's just plain wrong.

1500 crowns + benefits IS BETTER than 1500 crowns.

That's all there is to it. Is that so hard to see ?

...wut even? That doesn't even make any sense, you're completely ignoring pretty much everything I said and focusing on one tiny part to argue against me, despise the fact that everything else I've said makes that argument irrelevant. Did you even read my whole post(s)? If not then why even bother responding? Some people.

Your post is pretty damn long, tl;dr Version pls?

Edit: Nevermind, found it.

aldriq

I don't envy ZOS trying to make two models as disparate as subscription and B2P work together. Many subscribers will always feel like they are getting a raw deal, shortchanged or that they are donating the money to a good cause. Many non-subscribers, on the other hand, will always feel treated as second-class citizens.

Maybe having more subscription tiers would help bridge the gap, with bronze/$5, silver/$10 and gold/$15 being the existing one. That way they give the gold subs all the perks to the max, while allowing scaled-down ones in the lower tiers (for example unlimited bag capacity in gold, stacks of up to 100 items to silver, stacks of up to 50 items to bronze).