Official Feedback Thread for Non-Class Changes

ParaNostram · April 2016

I had some ideas as to how to incorporate the new Lifesteal buff to make vampire active abilities better worth slotting. I have also made threads discussing this, I figured there would be no harm in sharing the idea here as well. I love playing as a vampire and I just see potential here. Here are two ideas as to how Lifesteal can be implemented into Vampire abilities to improve the feeling of playing a vampire and make active abilities of the skill line viable again.

Idea #1 - Vampiric Drain morph grans minor or major lifesteal. It would offer incentive to slot the ability and give a nice buff for say, 20 seconds? Make vampires feel a little more like the blood sucking monsters they are.

Idea #2 - Savage Feeding is a worthless passive, I know of nobody who wastes the skill points on it. Now then, imagine if instead it offered minor or major Lifesteal upon activating a vampire ability. Same effect as idea #1, just a different way to implement it.

Just a minor tweak that would make slotting vampire abilities actually worth it again, maybe. Not by much, it's not a big buff, but it would definitely help with the game feel of playing a vampire.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

(Note: I know I originally made posts about how I disliked the changes but after letting them soak, they've grown on me. I think the recent passive overhaul was a step in the right direction)

Destyran · April 2016

Dawn breaker of smiting!! Make it scale of magika!!!

Magnys · April 2016

I like most of the changes, overall, to the non-class skill lines and understand why you made them. ALTHOUGH, I must agree that it seems, on the surface, that you are taking the specializing of fighting Undead/Daedra out of the Fighters Guild mold. Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that one of their main purposes? If anything they should ONLY receive bonuses when fighting their most hated foe instead of anyone/everyone.

Also, I must respectfully disagree with many of the folks/player base that are complaining about Dawnbreaker (or any other FG skill) not scaling off of magika. FG skills, IMO, should solely be based of off stamina as the Mage Guild skills are based off of magika. This makes complete sense to me and in some ways starts to "evens" the scales for stamina builds vs magika builds.

Memnock · April 2016

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno ,

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this since i do not have time to get on the PTS due to rl time constraints , but i've been posting in every thread i saw about this and i hope you can see it here

Could you please leave 1 of the morphs from Trapping Webs to scale off magika and to be single target skill, Basically the way it works on live now ?

The sorcerer class has no innate spam skill like the templar jabs or the NB Strife , so the only alternative for us is to use Destruction Staff and Force Shock , but this solution leaves us at a disadvantage when compared to the classes i mentioned above , since they can use their skills with Dual Wield and due to how this Weapon Skill line works , sorcerers will basically be cut off from a boost that they now enjoy and those 2 will still be taking full advantage of.

if the change to this skill from the DB DLC goes to live , you would effectively be cutting of sorcerers from a way of play that the rest of the classes will have unimpeded access to and be forcing use to use exclusively Destro - Resto combo , for a magika build.

The alternative to this would be have the dev guys take a look at the sorcerer skill lines and maybe convert one of our skills into a spam skill , but that would take quite a bit of time to determine what could be removed and reworked into such a skill , my suggestion for this would be to rework

Thank you for your time and i hope you can find a spot in your schedule to take this issue to the devs so they could maybe see if this can be implemented.

mr_wazzabi · April 2016

Since sorcs will run around with 2 hardened wards at all times now, expect to see a rise of shield breaker light attack spamming.

I for one, would rather not deal with a double ward and will be joining that boat.

staracino_ESO · April 2016

I feel like separating the guilds into 1 magicka and 1 stamina is not the right move. Despite their names, the Mages guild quests are not about being a mage, and the Fighters guild quests are not about being a fighter. They are about finding an island and fighting the daedra, respectively. Since both guilds accept all types of adventurers, I think it would make more sense to offer both types of morphs in both guilds, instead of separating them by guild.

Right now, it is like you are sending the message "A mage cannot fight Daedra effectively, and a Daedra hunter cannot use magicka;" Which we all know is incorrect.

Zoltan_117 · April 2016

* Moved to different official thread *

CP5 · April 2016

Given how much value the devs have been putting on heavy attacks, why not make the Wrath buff also reduce the time it takes to land a heavy attack, making heavy attacks take almost the same amount of time as a light attack when at max stacks. This way heavy armor users can more reliably benefit from those passives for sustain since their skills are very expensive without the cost reductions from light/medium armor.

Arthg · April 2016

Great changes over all, especially the FG - not sure I feel sorry for those who get their maelstrom weapons by rolling magicka sorcs and will now have to work for them as the rest of us.
As to lore, well I don't remember any stick-wielding, bathrobe-wearing toon in the Fighters' Guild.

My only gripe is with the disappearance of Bracing. I love the rest of the changes to Heavy Armour, but can't we keep them and Bracing (without of course making HA too OP)? Dodging seems so superior to Blocking now (cf. Athletics), why not have them on an equal footing?

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

Bracing passive on heavy armor.We PvE tanks would like to know the reason for this change.Make more sense that the heavy armor skill line its made mostly for survival.For tanks.Why take out the best survival effect in this skill line for a DPS effect?Most true pve tanks dont care about doing DPS.

You guys made a tank feedback thread some time ago in which the purpose of it,I think,was to improve the pve Tank role which is vanishing from the game.Most of the feedback by tank players point out that the issue with tanking is the burst damage meta that the game unintentionally shifted to because of past decisions.Yes,there are a few players pointing out that tanks do little damage,but even those players recognize in their post that damage its not the main purpose for a tank.So why then you do the opposite of what we wanted and eliminate tank survival for more DPS?Its like you guys want to slowly force us tanks to play DPS.Its like you guys are unable to fix the root of the problem and are now slowly eliminating the tank role.

Its that what you are planning on doing?Eliminating the tank role?

In the whole big tank feedback thread you guys didnt interact with us to discuss our feedback and what you guys are planning in any way.You guys just let us give our opinion while you guys took decisions without discusing it with us.Now you made a really bad decision that will make tanks more useless.Would it hasnt been better if you guys told us that you where going to change Bracing before you guys implement it.

And before a player comes here saying that we have sturdy to compensate,let me tell you,thats another issue.Now every tank is forced to put sturdy in their gear and give up their favorite trait.Not only that,now tanks forced to sturdy their gear is like a tank that dont have traits,because we are forced to fill with sturdy what we previously already had with bracing.And in exchange we get DPS?

I really thing you guys need to reconcider the bracing change if you really care about tanks.And next time communicate more with us when you ask us for feedback.Im very dissapointed.

pardon my bad english

#RIPtanks #ESOnotrinityboringgameplay

CP5 · April 2016

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Great changes over all, especially the FG - not sure I feel sorry for those who get their maelstrom weapons by rolling magicka sorcs and will now have to work for them as the rest of us.
As to lore, well I don't remember any stick-wielding, bathrobe-wearing toon in the Fighters' Guild.

My only gripe is with the disappearance of Bracing. I love the rest of the changes to Heavy Armour, but can't we keep them and Bracing (without of course making HA too OP)? Dodging seems so superior to Blocking now (cf. Athletics), why not have them on an equal footing?

Because an organization that has taken up the task of fighting armies of daedra and undead would in no way want someone who knows about/uses magic.

On a more serious not about vladimilianoub17_ESO1's post, that's right. The "feedback" threads we rarely get often do nothing. It is almost as if they are made just to hold the communities attention long enough for another major patch to roll around then its forgotten. Tanks seem like they are being phased out of the game, more and more dps becomes all that matters, that stacking damage is all that matters.

And this trend continues with making blocking cost more and heavy armor more damage focused. Please, some communication would be helpful, what are ZOS's plans? Because from here it seems like we are just going to ride this seesaw between magicka/stamina dps meta's until the game's end, with every patch enforcing "you must dps or you're doing it wrong."

TRoclodyte · April 2016

The changes to Pack leader are a very bad idea....

Pets are just generally bad. They're hard to control, if controllable at all, and they die easily.
I personnaly think Pack Leader was the best morph already. Weaving partially-charged heavy attacks between your attacks allowed you to stay transformed very long easily.
Pets standing on bodies make it difficult to feed, and with the 2 seconds from heavy attacks gone, feeding is even more important.

Why don't you just make werewolf a toggle with no duration already? Allow us poor puppies to run in Cyrodiil as packs. Make it something fun instead of a "Stare-at-the-remaining-duration-bar" thing.
It's already hard enough when half the bodies I try to devour disappear while I eat them.

olsborg · April 2016

Draining shot got a heal, yes, but for pvp its not that great, you cant utilize it as a heal on someone that is:

Blocking
CC Immune

Wich makes it very, very situational at best. If they simply added a mechanic like:

It heals you when cc is over or broken
If target is cc immune, the heal will happen after 5 seconds (the duration of the cc)

That would make it useful for pvp aswell.

CP5 · April 2016

TRoclodyte wrote: »

The changes to Pack leader are a very bad idea....
Pets are just generally bad. They're hard to control, if controllable at all, and they die easily.

I personnaly think Pack Leader was the best morph already. Weaving partially-charged heavy attacks between your attacks allowed you to stay transformed very long easily.

Pets standing on bodies make it difficult to feed, and with the 2 seconds from heavy attacks gone, feeding is even more important.

Why don't you just make werewolf a toggle with no duration already? Allow us poor puppies to run in Cyrodiil as packs. Make it something fun instead of a "Stare-at-the-remaining-duration-bar" thing.
It's already hard enough when half the bodies I try to devour disappear while I eat them.

How I feel when running a WW more often than not. And from personal experience (after a rather extended run in ww) bodies despawn so quickly that sometimes they vanish in the middle of feeding even if you started right as the enemy died.

Takuto · April 2016

Vampires:

The synergy for blade of woe and feeding are exactly the same at slightly different distances, on a moving target, you are playing Russian roulette. If you feed, you are basically breaking your character for a period of time due to the frankly stupid linking that passives now have to vampiric stages.

Can someone as ZOS explain the logic behind acting as a vampire making you less like a vampire? Overall the changes to the Vampire passives (being affected by vampiric stages) are extremely negative. I don't see any reason why anyone would want to be a vampire and feed, especially with the state of the active abitlies -- what exactly is the advantage?

Active Abilities:

On live, the two active abilities in the vampire line are essentially seppuku abilities in both PvE and PvP.
On test, these abilities are marginally stronger, but still suffer from the same deficiencies which have long made it a foolish decision to slot them. I am disappointed that so little was done in regard to these abilities.

The sort of changes I would have preferred to see:

Drain Essence: Give it an execute effect under a certain percentage of health which ramps up to normal execute DPS.

Mist Form:

Changes to an ability similar to Lightning Form on the Sorc. The base morphs gives a resistance buff, and the morphs give either speed or an area effect DoT.

OR

Make it so that these forms are once again untargetable, and DOT on "Baleful Mist" also snares.

LizardThixvim · April 2016

Hello

Can you please make Dawn breaker of smiting scale from magic damage and make flawless Dawn breaker the physical damage one

No stamina build in their right mind is going to use Dawn Breaker of smiting

They will all use Flawless for the weapon damage bonus

PLEASE make Dawn breaker of smiting scale off magic damage

also some food for though:
(make dawn breaker of smiting give the same bonus as flawless but magic damage, flawless top level= 5% more weapon damage, and smiting 5% more magic damage)

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

truth is, im fine with the vampire feeding, but then i have played a video game that have a vampire feed the very same way

ever play Legacy of Kain, Blood Omen

Kain feeds upon his enemies in much the same way when he needs to do so from a distance, honestly it caused a bit of a fanboy squeel when i saw the animation as it is the first time in ESO

I understand some people want a more vanilla feeding method, but to me i like it as is, as it denotes the power within the vampiric blood

Now about the stages change, honestly this brings it more in line with lore, which i am always in support of.

Though i do have some concerns on the time/cooldown for the stages, but since i have a finite amount of space in my hard drive, im gonna need to ask someone who has been testing it on the pts
Can i just spam mist until i hit stage 4. Because if so, i have no problems, i can feed for rp, spam it back to 4 for pve content

really the only change to vampire i take issue with is the dark stalker, i think it should be avaible to all stages to be honest, maybe im bias since i love the passive, but i dont like that it is a stage 4 only thing

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »

Hello

Can you please make Dawn breaker of smiting scale from magic damage and make flawless Dawn breaker the physical damage one

No stamina build in their right mind is going to use Dawn Breaker of smiting

They will all use Flawless for the weapon damage bonus

PLEASE make Dawn breaker of smiting scale off magic damage

also some food for though:
(make dawn breaker of smiting give the same bonus as flawless but magic damage, flawless top level= 5% more weapon damage, and smiting 5% more magic damage)

I disagree. I prefer a higher burst ult. Additionally, I will typically run this on my back bar. The extra weapon damage does not do much there. Don't generalize everyone into on category.

Rohaus · April 2016

Power Bash:
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by 85%, but it will no longer stun or disorient enemies hit.

Reduced the range of this ability and its morphs to the standard instant-cast melee range of 5 meters from 7 meters.

Power Slam (Power Bash morph): In addition to the changes made to the base ability, we redesigned this morph so while slotted, blocking an attack will increase the damage of your next Power Slam by 25% for 5 seconds.

At first read, I am a little disappointed in this change. The stun is a vital part of my play style in order to finish someone off... Isn't that what the entire game is focused around? Get someone low health, then CC them, and execute / finish them! So basically, there is no substantial form of CC now within the Sword + Board skill line... and you can't count Shield Charge as CC for finishing someone off... what, am I supposed to step back and knock them down to finish them off? That takes too long.

Since Power Bash was fixed a bit ago (there used to be a bug that made the CC OP), I NEVER receive complaints about the use of Power Bash and the morph which I use which is Reverberating Bash. Back when Reverb Bash was broken... I used to get regular hate tells about using it... QQ cries...

As a sword and board player, and knowing how important the Stun is for taking a target down, I am hoping that ZOS will reconsider this change to Power Bash.

Honestly, I don't understand why more people don't use Reverberating Bash... in its current form, it Stuns + Reduces healing... as much as I PvP, I just don't see people using it... why?? I don't know... but then this begs the question, why change it ZOS? No one is complaining about it... it is no longer bugged... so why change it???

Honestly, this change is somewhat comparable to taking fear away from NB's...

Thank you for your consideration,

Rohaus

Delegator · April 2016

Said in another thread, but since this is for official feedback: the changes in traits look very good and well-thought-out overall, but the expense of those changes needs to be addressed. There will be many people with multiple pieces of legendary gear that are no longer really useful (e.g. magicka casters dual-wielding nirnhoned) that will cost many gold tempers and VR16 materials to fix.

I realize this is something that happens with skill point respecs as well, but the cost of gear is multiples higher than foro a full skill respec even at VR16. I don't know how to deal with this -- a greater return of materials when deconstructing items, or a way to change an item trait which would take time and an amount of gold but not be so bad as re-making the item just to switch from a now-useless trait to a useful one, or something else. But something should be implemented.

Leogon · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

The webs skill......PLEASE keep at least one of them magicka based, i loved thowing that out, completes the necrotic vibe i try for on my sorcerer, makes little sense to change it in the first place in my opinion

Most abilities in this game are magicka based, just look at the classes. It's time we stam users get some love so I disagree with your opinion, sorry.

Leogon · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Simply, this game NEEDS separate PvP and PvE profiles.

Couldn't agree more.

Eas007 · April 2016

Realy liking the HA changes as a HA enthousiast

Think it's biased towards stam players though. Need further testing to confirm.

Fighter's Guild also biased towards stam players now. Think you wanted to go for FG for stam and MG for magicka users, but it limits our options.

Liking change to Nirn, brings it more in line with other traits.

That's just my first impression.

potirondb16_ESO · April 2016

Fighter Guild

Hi everyone,

Only issue I have with fighter's guild is with expert hunter and his morph. It's actually the only major critique of the game or almost and still it's pretty useless as a skill. I understand that it now give 3% weapon domage while slotted which is good but it does not balance for magelight and 7% more magika + 2% magika regen propriety + major empowerment when use.

I do feel that it's probably one of the worst of the two skill by a long shot.

The fact that this does only last 6 second and that is bonus is only going to work while active and only apply to fighter guild or to Attack while stealth makes it a non-useful ability in most case. I understand that Flawless dawnbreaker is a nice skill and that this one gives a nice dps an overall but what I'm not sure about is why use expert hunter if not for the passive critique.

I think this skill need to be rethink to take that into account. I'm playing a Stemplar and a Stamblade so on one I can go without that skill and on the other it's a must use.. so ....

I would likely suggest a fix amount of stamina reduction cost for exemple 5 to 8% instead of the actual buffing which is way too short to be of any use or actually put the bonus of Flawless Dawnbreaker in Expert Hunter and try Something else with that skill. I understand that a lot of stamina class are using Flawless Dawnbreaker on their bars, but as it's an ultimate why not give them the diversity of ultimate choice.

I understand also that you gave expert hunter a stamina touch so it works as magelight for stamina but I do Wonder if the twist was really interesting... I feel like revealing people for 5 second then/or casting my ability with 27% less cost is actually going to be less interesting then just casting my skill (as far as the pve morph goes).

So should probably rethink that one for pve purpose by thinking of a new passive that could fit stamina. Pvp morph of this skill could actually be to reduce the cost of sneak by a fair amount.

potirondb16_ESO · April 2016

Weapon Passive

Hi guys,

I really like what you did with the new traits and I'm loowking foward to test it a bit more on the pts. I really enjoy how some of the new bonus seems to fit different kind of solution. I also do like how the new sharpend works it's really great, really helps figuring out where you stand.

But (because when you post you always have a different opinion right), I think the DW and 2H passive which gives bonus regarding which type of weapon you are using could be rework to fit Inside that new mecanic for exemple.

Sword (always expect 2H and DW): Increase weapon domage by 12% (so it could fit ninhorned)
Mace: Lower Physical resistance by a flat amount
Dagger: Unchange
Axe: Not sure

So This is my input on weapon passive, hope this could be done. It's actually the only aspect I've with this one ! Great work !

potirondb16_ESO · April 2016

Vampire

I do like how vampire changes, but I still do have a question about the ultimate. It would be nice if one of the morph could actually be stamina, the invis bat seems the logical choice. I know it won't be populare but there's so many great magika ultimate right now and I feel you might be generous

zerosingularity · April 2016

Adding some more info to the Fighter's Guild stuff.

Evil Hunter: The cost reduction should be a passive and not part of the active, it would give more incentive to use the other extremely costly skills, like Ring of Preservation in a group setting, and to have this slotted even in PvE.

Secondly, My base Ring of Preservation cost is 4353 Stamina (Confirmed this is the actual cost per cast). Now if I cast Evil Hunter, the cost drops to 2478 (Again, confirmed as the actual cost). This is a reduction of approximately 43%. Much more than the rated 28% Evil Hunter is supposed to give. (The same reduction is applied to the other skills as well.)

Don't get me wrong, this amount of reduction is where I feel the skill should be at, it just is not what is said in the tooltip.

Basically keep the reduction as it currently is (43%), fix the tooltip, and make it passive for Evil Hunter and you have a good PvE setup, since Camouflaged Hunter is still better in PvP.

StopDropAndBear · April 2016

Art team is so on point for this update, this zone is so lovely and clean and beautiful. My husband is a big Elder Scrolls nerd (he bought an N-Gage off eBay just to play Shadowkey, lol), and when I showed him Anvil and Kvatch, he was very impressed. Beautiful stuff, guys!

talashgreydragb16_ESO · April 2016

I like the change made to the Volley morph that used to do fire damage (Sorched Earth), but I don't think the two morphs now available are very interesting! In fact, they're almost exactly the same as the morphs for the Sorcerer's Lightning Splash; one is slightly larger in radius, one lasts slightly longer.

Yaaaawn.

I know there's nothing wrong with playing it safe like that, but maybe consider changing them up a little? One idea I thought might be fun is changing the abilities to have a "skill cap", so that one ability not only has a larger radius, but also lasts longer (easy to hit your target, less need to reapply, a lot easier to use), and the other rewards clever use of the ability by increasing the damage against the target for every tick they remain in the AOE.

This means one morph is, strictly speaking, going to do more damage, but the other moprh is far easier to use and lasts longer (maybe even costs less stamina!). This gives a real meaningful choice between the morphs, as well as making them better at different things (the larger AOE and for longer makes it great against spread out enemies and trash mobs in dungeons, as opposed to the higher damage potential against a single, stationary target of the other morph).

ADarklore · April 2016

I am looking forward to most of the changes... I'm very happy that you've added two Stamina heals... the change to Draining Shot and Blinding Flurry... it offers a lot more options for Stamina players who need more survivability.

For those who complain that Draining Shot needs extended range... why would you need a heal at extended range? Healing is mostly necessary when you're up close and taking major damage, typically from range you can dodge most incoming damage... but up close, this new morph can help offset some of the incoming damage. I agree though that the heal shouldn't be tied to its CC ability.

Blinding Flurry... it does slightly less damage than Surprise Attack but it also gives a nice heal... so you sacrifice DPS for survivability. Perhaps in groups with a healer it wouldn't be a big deal, but solo, I can see this replacing SA in my loadout.

Fighters Guild... I see a lot of complaints about this. People saying, "But this line is all about fighting Daedra..." and that is true, but ONLY during your Fighters Guild and Main Story quest. ZOS is looking at the FUTURE, and they've already said that Molag Bal's story was completed with IC... you don't see battles against Daedra in TG or DB... and probably many more DLCs will not include Daedra or undead. Besides that, the Fighters Guild was all about mercenary type work before Molag Bal, and thus, they'll be more about Mercenary work AFTER Molag Bal... which is what this change is all about. Making the Fighters Guild more about being the original vision of the Fighters Guild, not simply a tool against Daedra and Undead.

Also, people that complain about the changes to the Fighters Guild skills... when we start seeing Stamina version of the Mages Guild skills, then you have a right to complain about no Magicka in FG. Until then, it's nice to see that the FG finally became about 'fighters' and not mages. Too much of this game already revolves around Magicka and spell damage which heavily favor mages and leaves stamina players on the outside looking in.

I also appreciate the changes to the traits, especially Training. It will be nice to be able to increase XP gain for ALL enemy kills, not just having specific skill lines increased.