Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

PvP POV:
-Incapaciting strike scaling and relentless procc scaling with Mighty seems OP for small fights, especially regarding Incapaciting: this already hits like a truck even on a Stamina build, I don't want to imagine when it will always stun with damage increased by 25%. Relentless seems fine tho, as right now the damage is really low for stamina builds.
-Cloak change: Was expectable eventhough it will be missed
-Disappointed to not see any change for Magicka Nightblade except funnel health crit heal nerf

Overall I see no reason to stay magicka: Far less damage especially with Incapaciting strike/weapon skills changes and proximity detonation nerf, and same/less survivability now that stamina has a shield as strong as harness magicka (bone shield) eventhough they already had better heals and dodgeroll for defence. On the other hand seems like Stamina NightBlade will be out of control especially damage wise...

Yep from my rough calculations, Incapacitating Strike will be ridiculous.
Ambush, fear, Incapacitating strike, suprise attack, killers blade will be a guaranteed kill. Might not even need the surprise attack lol.
My Incapacitating Strike will crit for 40k+ in pve, so with battlespirit that could potentially oneshot people with no impen. Lol

This is simply not the cast PvE builds don't work in PvP.
1) 50% less damage so 20k
2) Armor (8-14k light to medium) and CP cutting it another 17-25%
3) No crit on shields/ resistance buffs
4) one impenetrable and CP to reduce crit damage and you are lucky to break 13k.

well in pvp:i saw some for 17k with empower from ambush.(after a 7k ambush) just silly. cannot go live.
@ZOS_GinaBruno have you tested the changes in pvp?

When people got reduce physical dmg cp , they said it was fair and balanced.
When stamina builds get some ulties using their CP of choice to increase it; Cannot go live, OP wää wää.

LoL

Because nobody got 100 points into hardy and every stam builds (eg soon everybody) will have 100 points into mighty+at least 10% crit damage CP. I've seen soul harvest crit for 14k from stam builds on players this patch, with 25% from mighty and 10% precise strikes this is turning into instant ~19k coming with a stun for 50 ult cost. Seems really balanced man

If mag builds can do the same with Elemental expert and their version of crit dmg cp, why shouldnt Stam builds do the same?

Magicka builds cant stack as much spell dmg as stamina can stack wep dmg, magicka builds dont have the huge dps boost from light/heavy attacks if they want to max out spell damage; spell resist is easier to stack than armor... should I continue?

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

So,my question is...will now a mag nb be useless? Cause this is an stamnbfest.

No. Mag nb will be fine. There was no need to mess with something that was working well. Stam nb abilities were screwy as far as damage went so they were reworked.

With all the stamina NB changes and bone shield being the stamina version of harness + proxy nerf I simply see no reason to play magicka as long as duels/smallscale is concerned. Less dps, less burst, worse heals, not better shields, less resistance, less dodgerolls...

stam can stack more weapon damage then a mag with spell, but a mag can stack more max mag then a stam can get max stam. so tradeoff.
thats true, although the difference is like 3-4k ressources which doesnt entirely compensate the weapon/spell damage diff, not even taking into account the light attack weaving
annulment does same thing as the stam shield but for mag users.

proxy nerf only effects in like a 2 man situation. it was meant to be a zerg buster, not for duels. a mag blade has so many choices on what to replace that skill with. heck, cripple will hit harder over an 8 second duration than proxy did all at once on a single target.
i can pull dps on my mag blade just like i can on my stam blade for the most part. the biggest thing is that more people run around with mag mitigation which is likely to change some what. plus, mag blade has much more utility than a stam blade. so one can say choose utility or damage. that is all personal preference.

heals on a mag blade are not worse. My swallow soul ticks harder than vigor and that is without champ points into healing. not to mention sap. also, healing ward which provides a burst heal and a shield which makes it better than rally imo. ya less resistance, but this is going to be mitigated in DB. it will be easier for a mag blade to stack resistance.

yes less dodge roll, but mag blade has other utlities to survive. shadow image for instance.

There were 2 advantages of magicka NB compared to stam NB when it comes to 1v1/smallscale: damage shields that would permit to prevent/easily recover from an high burst compared to the hots of stamina build and the ultra burst of proximity detonation + assassin's will. Here, both are gone, stamina gets a shield comparable to annulment on top of their strong hot and rally insta heal and proximity detonation takes a big nerf for this scale of PvP while relentless focus proc is now competitive for stam builds. I already use cripple and its damage are not better than poison injection especially since this one takes a 12% buff for some reason. I agree that proximity detonation needed a change (I hate people using it for single target) but with all the buffs to stamina NB damage it was the only reason somebody would still play Magick NB for smallscale. Now there is none.
In no way your swallow soul heals more than vigor if your both chars are built for the same thing (high damage or high sustain) especially as it depends of damage done and has all the disadvantages of projectiles in PvP. Further more its rather low dps compared to ight/heavy attack+surprise attack(+bash cancel) of a stam blade
Yes healing ward used to be better than rally as an "oh sh*t" button but now that stamina NB has a shield you will just be able to tank through the damage with bone shield+vigor+dodgeroll+cloak until rally is worth recasting rather easily (it was already kindof the case before with rolldodge+vigor+cloak). No need for healing ward at all.

I'm well aware of the utilities mag NB has to survive, but shadow image really ? Its indeed an awesome skill, but very much available to stam NB aswell quite low. If you dont use it on your stam nb its just because you dont need, sprint+dodgeroll is already enough mobility.

TL;DR: Magicka vs stamina nightblade was already quite balanced this patch as far as smallscale PvP is concerned (the 2 builds I have an harder time to go agaisnt atm in 1v1 is stam DK and stam NB), the change to relentless focus proc and killers blade is more than welcome as those 2 were underpowered in 2.3. But Incapaciting strike scaling on mighty/precise strike (and for stam dk unstable flame) leads to an insane stamina burst buff (~30-35% on those skills for people with 501CP); add on top of that a shield scaling off stamina, a nerf to Proximity Detonation and poison/potion granting major vitality (thus heavily promoting heals over absorb shields) and you got stamina NB/DK completely OP, with no reason left to play magicka NB in smallscale.
Where stamina builds needed a buff was largescale fights (AoE) and here they got nothing. Not even power extraction scaling on mighty...

i see your point. but the first question that prompt this discussion was whether or not a mag nb will be obsolete. to my original point, mag nb will not be obsolete. imo, they have the most versatility of any mag class. mag classes got a buff with annulment. mag nb still dominate with vd. proxy will still be a damn solid choice with fighting 3 or more people. even smaller scale than that the mag nb has many options to replace proxy with. in no way shape or form are mag nb going to be underpowered this patch. imo it comes down to personal choice. whether you choose mag or stam gameplay you will be very satisfied either way and be viable either way you choose.

I don't think magicka nightblade will be underpowered, I think stamina NB and stamina DK will be better on every point for smallscale, their singletarget damage is going to be insane, better heals and they will have a decent shield (the only thing with prox det that was magicka exclusive). I'm also very afraid of the impact of heavy attack+incapaciting strike combo on overall PvP. Such an easy way to oneshot with little counters; barely predictable and not even from stealth.. ughh
Nonetheless mag nb will most likely still be the way to go for bombing and group dps.

Only if by small scale you mean 1v1, then yes, stamina nbs will probably be stronger. Build diversity inherently means some will be better than others in some aspects. But on 2-3 vs X things are different and magicka nbs might very well be the strongest.

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

PvP POV:
-Incapaciting strike scaling and relentless procc scaling with Mighty seems OP for small fights, especially regarding Incapaciting: this already hits like a truck even on a Stamina build, I don't want to imagine when it will always stun with damage increased by 25%. Relentless seems fine tho, as right now the damage is really low for stamina builds.
-Cloak change: Was expectable eventhough it will be missed
-Disappointed to not see any change for Magicka Nightblade except funnel health crit heal nerf

Overall I see no reason to stay magicka: Far less damage especially with Incapaciting strike/weapon skills changes and proximity detonation nerf, and same/less survivability now that stamina has a shield as strong as harness magicka (bone shield) eventhough they already had better heals and dodgeroll for defence. On the other hand seems like Stamina NightBlade will be out of control especially damage wise...

Yep from my rough calculations, Incapacitating Strike will be ridiculous.
Ambush, fear, Incapacitating strike, suprise attack, killers blade will be a guaranteed kill. Might not even need the surprise attack lol.
My Incapacitating Strike will crit for 40k+ in pve, so with battlespirit that could potentially oneshot people with no impen. Lol

This is simply not the cast PvE builds don't work in PvP.
1) 50% less damage so 20k
2) Armor (8-14k light to medium) and CP cutting it another 17-25%
3) No crit on shields/ resistance buffs
4) one impenetrable and CP to reduce crit damage and you are lucky to break 13k.

well in pvp:i saw some for 17k with empower from ambush.(after a 7k ambush) just silly. cannot go live.
@ZOS_GinaBruno have you tested the changes in pvp?

When people got reduce physical dmg cp , they said it was fair and balanced.
When stamina builds get some ulties using their CP of choice to increase it; Cannot go live, OP wää wää.

LoL

Because nobody got 100 points into hardy and every stam builds (eg soon everybody) will have 100 points into mighty+at least 10% crit damage CP. I've seen soul harvest crit for 14k from stam builds on players this patch, with 25% from mighty and 10% precise strikes this is turning into instant ~19k coming with a stun for 50 ult cost. Seems really balanced man

If mag builds can do the same with Elemental expert and their version of crit dmg cp, why shouldnt Stam builds do the same?

Magicka builds cant stack as much spell dmg as stamina can stack wep dmg, magicka builds dont have the huge dps boost from light/heavy attacks if they want to max out spell damage; spell resist is easier to stack than armor... should I continue?

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

So,my question is...will now a mag nb be useless? Cause this is an stamnbfest.

No. Mag nb will be fine. There was no need to mess with something that was working well. Stam nb abilities were screwy as far as damage went so they were reworked.

With all the stamina NB changes and bone shield being the stamina version of harness + proxy nerf I simply see no reason to play magicka as long as duels/smallscale is concerned. Less dps, less burst, worse heals, not better shields, less resistance, less dodgerolls...

stam can stack more weapon damage then a mag with spell, but a mag can stack more max mag then a stam can get max stam. so tradeoff.
thats true, although the difference is like 3-4k ressources which doesnt entirely compensate the weapon/spell damage diff, not even taking into account the light attack weaving
annulment does same thing as the stam shield but for mag users.

proxy nerf only effects in like a 2 man situation. it was meant to be a zerg buster, not for duels. a mag blade has so many choices on what to replace that skill with. heck, cripple will hit harder over an 8 second duration than proxy did all at once on a single target.
i can pull dps on my mag blade just like i can on my stam blade for the most part. the biggest thing is that more people run around with mag mitigation which is likely to change some what. plus, mag blade has much more utility than a stam blade. so one can say choose utility or damage. that is all personal preference.

heals on a mag blade are not worse. My swallow soul ticks harder than vigor and that is without champ points into healing. not to mention sap. also, healing ward which provides a burst heal and a shield which makes it better than rally imo. ya less resistance, but this is going to be mitigated in DB. it will be easier for a mag blade to stack resistance.

yes less dodge roll, but mag blade has other utlities to survive. shadow image for instance.

There were 2 advantages of magicka NB compared to stam NB when it comes to 1v1/smallscale: damage shields that would permit to prevent/easily recover from an high burst compared to the hots of stamina build and the ultra burst of proximity detonation + assassin's will. Here, both are gone, stamina gets a shield comparable to annulment on top of their strong hot and rally insta heal and proximity detonation takes a big nerf for this scale of PvP while relentless focus proc is now competitive for stam builds. I already use cripple and its damage are not better than poison injection especially since this one takes a 12% buff for some reason. I agree that proximity detonation needed a change (I hate people using it for single target) but with all the buffs to stamina NB damage it was the only reason somebody would still play Magick NB for smallscale. Now there is none.
In no way your swallow soul heals more than vigor if your both chars are built for the same thing (high damage or high sustain) especially as it depends of damage done and has all the disadvantages of projectiles in PvP. Further more its rather low dps compared to ight/heavy attack+surprise attack(+bash cancel) of a stam blade
Yes healing ward used to be better than rally as an "oh sh*t" button but now that stamina NB has a shield you will just be able to tank through the damage with bone shield+vigor+dodgeroll+cloak until rally is worth recasting rather easily (it was already kindof the case before with rolldodge+vigor+cloak). No need for healing ward at all.

I'm well aware of the utilities mag NB has to survive, but shadow image really ? Its indeed an awesome skill, but very much available to stam NB aswell quite low. If you dont use it on your stam nb its just because you dont need, sprint+dodgeroll is already enough mobility.

TL;DR: Magicka vs stamina nightblade was already quite balanced this patch as far as smallscale PvP is concerned (the 2 builds I have an harder time to go agaisnt atm in 1v1 is stam DK and stam NB), the change to relentless focus proc and killers blade is more than welcome as those 2 were underpowered in 2.3. But Incapaciting strike scaling on mighty/precise strike (and for stam dk unstable flame) leads to an insane stamina burst buff (~30-35% on those skills for people with 501CP); add on top of that a shield scaling off stamina, a nerf to Proximity Detonation and poison/potion granting major vitality (thus heavily promoting heals over absorb shields) and you got stamina NB/DK completely OP, with no reason left to play magicka NB in smallscale.
Where stamina builds needed a buff was largescale fights (AoE) and here they got nothing. Not even power extraction scaling on mighty...

i see your point. but the first question that prompt this discussion was whether or not a mag nb will be obsolete. to my original point, mag nb will not be obsolete. imo, they have the most versatility of any mag class. mag classes got a buff with annulment. mag nb still dominate with vd. proxy will still be a damn solid choice with fighting 3 or more people. even smaller scale than that the mag nb has many options to replace proxy with. in no way shape or form are mag nb going to be underpowered this patch. imo it comes down to personal choice. whether you choose mag or stam gameplay you will be very satisfied either way and be viable either way you choose.

I don't think magicka nightblade will be underpowered, I think stamina NB and stamina DK will be better on every point for smallscale, their singletarget damage is going to be insane, better heals and they will have a decent shield (the only thing with prox det that was magicka exclusive). I'm also very afraid of the impact of heavy attack+incapaciting strike combo on overall PvP. Such an easy way to oneshot with little counters; barely predictable and not even from stealth.. ughh
Nonetheless mag nb will most likely still be the way to go for bombing and group dps.

Only if by small scale you mean 1v1, then yes, stamina nbs will probably be stronger. Build diversity inherently means some will be better than others in some aspects. But on 2-3 vs X things are different and magicka nbs might very well be the strongest.

Care to develop why?

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

tpayne562 wrote: »

Soul harvest needs to be the Stam morph , Mage blades already gen enough alt and magic would benefit more from the stun on the other morph then Stam

I'm glad someone else thought this. Magblade get a lot of dps from the siphoning tree, which already generates ultimate. Equally a magblade caught in a melee fight may appreciate the cheap stun to back away. As long as one morph gets changed for stam I'm happy, but maybe the other way round would have been more useful.

remeber stam already took the best morph of teleport strike which mag users did not lie. I dont think we should take away the best version of this skill also. just my opinion.

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

PvP POV:
-Incapaciting strike scaling and relentless procc scaling with Mighty seems OP for small fights, especially regarding Incapaciting: this already hits like a truck even on a Stamina build, I don't want to imagine when it will always stun with damage increased by 25%. Relentless seems fine tho, as right now the damage is really low for stamina builds.
-Cloak change: Was expectable eventhough it will be missed
-Disappointed to not see any change for Magicka Nightblade except funnel health crit heal nerf

Overall I see no reason to stay magicka: Far less damage especially with Incapaciting strike/weapon skills changes and proximity detonation nerf, and same/less survivability now that stamina has a shield as strong as harness magicka (bone shield) eventhough they already had better heals and dodgeroll for defence. On the other hand seems like Stamina NightBlade will be out of control especially damage wise...

Yep from my rough calculations, Incapacitating Strike will be ridiculous.
Ambush, fear, Incapacitating strike, suprise attack, killers blade will be a guaranteed kill. Might not even need the surprise attack lol.
My Incapacitating Strike will crit for 40k+ in pve, so with battlespirit that could potentially oneshot people with no impen. Lol

This is simply not the cast PvE builds don't work in PvP.
1) 50% less damage so 20k
2) Armor (8-14k light to medium) and CP cutting it another 17-25%
3) No crit on shields/ resistance buffs
4) one impenetrable and CP to reduce crit damage and you are lucky to break 13k.

well in pvp:i saw some for 17k with empower from ambush.(after a 7k ambush) just silly. cannot go live.
@ZOS_GinaBruno have you tested the changes in pvp?

When people got reduce physical dmg cp , they said it was fair and balanced.
When stamina builds get some ulties using their CP of choice to increase it; Cannot go live, OP wää wää.

LoL

Because nobody got 100 points into hardy and every stam builds (eg soon everybody) will have 100 points into mighty+at least 10% crit damage CP. I've seen soul harvest crit for 14k from stam builds on players this patch, with 25% from mighty and 10% precise strikes this is turning into instant ~19k coming with a stun for 50 ult cost. Seems really balanced man

If mag builds can do the same with Elemental expert and their version of crit dmg cp, why shouldnt Stam builds do the same?

Magicka builds cant stack as much spell dmg as stamina can stack wep dmg, magicka builds dont have the huge dps boost from light/heavy attacks if they want to max out spell damage; spell resist is easier to stack than armor... should I continue?

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

So,my question is...will now a mag nb be useless? Cause this is an stamnbfest.

No. Mag nb will be fine. There was no need to mess with something that was working well. Stam nb abilities were screwy as far as damage went so they were reworked.

With all the stamina NB changes and bone shield being the stamina version of harness + proxy nerf I simply see no reason to play magicka as long as duels/smallscale is concerned. Less dps, less burst, worse heals, not better shields, less resistance, less dodgerolls...

stam can stack more weapon damage then a mag with spell, but a mag can stack more max mag then a stam can get max stam. so tradeoff.
thats true, although the difference is like 3-4k ressources which doesnt entirely compensate the weapon/spell damage diff, not even taking into account the light attack weaving
annulment does same thing as the stam shield but for mag users.

proxy nerf only effects in like a 2 man situation. it was meant to be a zerg buster, not for duels. a mag blade has so many choices on what to replace that skill with. heck, cripple will hit harder over an 8 second duration than proxy did all at once on a single target.
i can pull dps on my mag blade just like i can on my stam blade for the most part. the biggest thing is that more people run around with mag mitigation which is likely to change some what. plus, mag blade has much more utility than a stam blade. so one can say choose utility or damage. that is all personal preference.

heals on a mag blade are not worse. My swallow soul ticks harder than vigor and that is without champ points into healing. not to mention sap. also, healing ward which provides a burst heal and a shield which makes it better than rally imo. ya less resistance, but this is going to be mitigated in DB. it will be easier for a mag blade to stack resistance.

yes less dodge roll, but mag blade has other utlities to survive. shadow image for instance.

There were 2 advantages of magicka NB compared to stam NB when it comes to 1v1/smallscale: damage shields that would permit to prevent/easily recover from an high burst compared to the hots of stamina build and the ultra burst of proximity detonation + assassin's will. Here, both are gone, stamina gets a shield comparable to annulment on top of their strong hot and rally insta heal and proximity detonation takes a big nerf for this scale of PvP while relentless focus proc is now competitive for stam builds. I already use cripple and its damage are not better than poison injection especially since this one takes a 12% buff for some reason. I agree that proximity detonation needed a change (I hate people using it for single target) but with all the buffs to stamina NB damage it was the only reason somebody would still play Magick NB for smallscale. Now there is none.
In no way your swallow soul heals more than vigor if your both chars are built for the same thing (high damage or high sustain) especially as it depends of damage done and has all the disadvantages of projectiles in PvP. Further more its rather low dps compared to ight/heavy attack+surprise attack(+bash cancel) of a stam blade
Yes healing ward used to be better than rally as an "oh sh*t" button but now that stamina NB has a shield you will just be able to tank through the damage with bone shield+vigor+dodgeroll+cloak until rally is worth recasting rather easily (it was already kindof the case before with rolldodge+vigor+cloak). No need for healing ward at all.

I'm well aware of the utilities mag NB has to survive, but shadow image really ? Its indeed an awesome skill, but very much available to stam NB aswell quite low. If you dont use it on your stam nb its just because you dont need, sprint+dodgeroll is already enough mobility.

TL;DR: Magicka vs stamina nightblade was already quite balanced this patch as far as smallscale PvP is concerned (the 2 builds I have an harder time to go agaisnt atm in 1v1 is stam DK and stam NB), the change to relentless focus proc and killers blade is more than welcome as those 2 were underpowered in 2.3. But Incapaciting strike scaling on mighty/precise strike (and for stam dk unstable flame) leads to an insane stamina burst buff (~30-35% on those skills for people with 501CP); add on top of that a shield scaling off stamina, a nerf to Proximity Detonation and poison/potion granting major vitality (thus heavily promoting heals over absorb shields) and you got stamina NB/DK completely OP, with no reason left to play magicka NB in smallscale.
Where stamina builds needed a buff was largescale fights (AoE) and here they got nothing. Not even power extraction scaling on mighty...

i see your point. but the first question that prompt this discussion was whether or not a mag nb will be obsolete. to my original point, mag nb will not be obsolete. imo, they have the most versatility of any mag class. mag classes got a buff with annulment. mag nb still dominate with vd. proxy will still be a damn solid choice with fighting 3 or more people. even smaller scale than that the mag nb has many options to replace proxy with. in no way shape or form are mag nb going to be underpowered this patch. imo it comes down to personal choice. whether you choose mag or stam gameplay you will be very satisfied either way and be viable either way you choose.

I don't think magicka nightblade will be underpowered, I think stamina NB and stamina DK will be better on every point for smallscale, their singletarget damage is going to be insane, better heals and they will have a decent shield (the only thing with prox det that was magicka exclusive). I'm also very afraid of the impact of heavy attack+incapaciting strike combo on overall PvP. Such an easy way to oneshot with little counters; barely predictable and not even from stealth.. ughh
Nonetheless mag nb will most likely still be the way to go for bombing and group dps.

Only if by small scale you mean 1v1, then yes, stamina nbs will probably be stronger. Build diversity inherently means some will be better than others in some aspects. But on 2-3 vs X things are different and magicka nbs might very well be the strongest.

Care to develop why?

You mean why a Resto staff wielder would offer more group play support?

What support do you need when you can easily instakill in single target and can rely on your own for survivability. If what you're lookking for is support in a group of 2-3 then better run magicka templars or sorc instead of a magicka nightblade thats going to spend all his time trying to get cloak to work.

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

PvP POV:
-Incapaciting strike scaling and relentless procc scaling with Mighty seems OP for small fights, especially regarding Incapaciting: this already hits like a truck even on a Stamina build, I don't want to imagine when it will always stun with damage increased by 25%. Relentless seems fine tho, as right now the damage is really low for stamina builds.
-Cloak change: Was expectable eventhough it will be missed
-Disappointed to not see any change for Magicka Nightblade except funnel health crit heal nerf

Overall I see no reason to stay magicka: Far less damage especially with Incapaciting strike/weapon skills changes and proximity detonation nerf, and same/less survivability now that stamina has a shield as strong as harness magicka (bone shield) eventhough they already had better heals and dodgeroll for defence. On the other hand seems like Stamina NightBlade will be out of control especially damage wise...

Yep from my rough calculations, Incapacitating Strike will be ridiculous.
Ambush, fear, Incapacitating strike, suprise attack, killers blade will be a guaranteed kill. Might not even need the surprise attack lol.
My Incapacitating Strike will crit for 40k+ in pve, so with battlespirit that could potentially oneshot people with no impen. Lol

This is simply not the cast PvE builds don't work in PvP.
1) 50% less damage so 20k
2) Armor (8-14k light to medium) and CP cutting it another 17-25%
3) No crit on shields/ resistance buffs
4) one impenetrable and CP to reduce crit damage and you are lucky to break 13k.

well in pvp:i saw some for 17k with empower from ambush.(after a 7k ambush) just silly. cannot go live.
@ZOS_GinaBruno have you tested the changes in pvp?

When people got reduce physical dmg cp , they said it was fair and balanced.
When stamina builds get some ulties using their CP of choice to increase it; Cannot go live, OP wää wää.

LoL

Because nobody got 100 points into hardy and every stam builds (eg soon everybody) will have 100 points into mighty+at least 10% crit damage CP. I've seen soul harvest crit for 14k from stam builds on players this patch, with 25% from mighty and 10% precise strikes this is turning into instant ~19k coming with a stun for 50 ult cost. Seems really balanced man

If mag builds can do the same with Elemental expert and their version of crit dmg cp, why shouldnt Stam builds do the same?

Magicka builds cant stack as much spell dmg as stamina can stack wep dmg, magicka builds dont have the huge dps boost from light/heavy attacks if they want to max out spell damage; spell resist is easier to stack than armor... should I continue?

bowmanz607 wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

So,my question is...will now a mag nb be useless? Cause this is an stamnbfest.

No. Mag nb will be fine. There was no need to mess with something that was working well. Stam nb abilities were screwy as far as damage went so they were reworked.

With all the stamina NB changes and bone shield being the stamina version of harness + proxy nerf I simply see no reason to play magicka as long as duels/smallscale is concerned. Less dps, less burst, worse heals, not better shields, less resistance, less dodgerolls...

stam can stack more weapon damage then a mag with spell, but a mag can stack more max mag then a stam can get max stam. so tradeoff.
thats true, although the difference is like 3-4k ressources which doesnt entirely compensate the weapon/spell damage diff, not even taking into account the light attack weaving
annulment does same thing as the stam shield but for mag users.

proxy nerf only effects in like a 2 man situation. it was meant to be a zerg buster, not for duels. a mag blade has so many choices on what to replace that skill with. heck, cripple will hit harder over an 8 second duration than proxy did all at once on a single target.
i can pull dps on my mag blade just like i can on my stam blade for the most part. the biggest thing is that more people run around with mag mitigation which is likely to change some what. plus, mag blade has much more utility than a stam blade. so one can say choose utility or damage. that is all personal preference.

heals on a mag blade are not worse. My swallow soul ticks harder than vigor and that is without champ points into healing. not to mention sap. also, healing ward which provides a burst heal and a shield which makes it better than rally imo. ya less resistance, but this is going to be mitigated in DB. it will be easier for a mag blade to stack resistance.

yes less dodge roll, but mag blade has other utlities to survive. shadow image for instance.

There were 2 advantages of magicka NB compared to stam NB when it comes to 1v1/smallscale: damage shields that would permit to prevent/easily recover from an high burst compared to the hots of stamina build and the ultra burst of proximity detonation + assassin's will. Here, both are gone, stamina gets a shield comparable to annulment on top of their strong hot and rally insta heal and proximity detonation takes a big nerf for this scale of PvP while relentless focus proc is now competitive for stam builds. I already use cripple and its damage are not better than poison injection especially since this one takes a 12% buff for some reason. I agree that proximity detonation needed a change (I hate people using it for single target) but with all the buffs to stamina NB damage it was the only reason somebody would still play Magick NB for smallscale. Now there is none.
In no way your swallow soul heals more than vigor if your both chars are built for the same thing (high damage or high sustain) especially as it depends of damage done and has all the disadvantages of projectiles in PvP. Further more its rather low dps compared to ight/heavy attack+surprise attack(+bash cancel) of a stam blade
Yes healing ward used to be better than rally as an "oh sh*t" button but now that stamina NB has a shield you will just be able to tank through the damage with bone shield+vigor+dodgeroll+cloak until rally is worth recasting rather easily (it was already kindof the case before with rolldodge+vigor+cloak). No need for healing ward at all.

I'm well aware of the utilities mag NB has to survive, but shadow image really ? Its indeed an awesome skill, but very much available to stam NB aswell quite low. If you dont use it on your stam nb its just because you dont need, sprint+dodgeroll is already enough mobility.

TL;DR: Magicka vs stamina nightblade was already quite balanced this patch as far as smallscale PvP is concerned (the 2 builds I have an harder time to go agaisnt atm in 1v1 is stam DK and stam NB), the change to relentless focus proc and killers blade is more than welcome as those 2 were underpowered in 2.3. But Incapaciting strike scaling on mighty/precise strike (and for stam dk unstable flame) leads to an insane stamina burst buff (~30-35% on those skills for people with 501CP); add on top of that a shield scaling off stamina, a nerf to Proximity Detonation and poison/potion granting major vitality (thus heavily promoting heals over absorb shields) and you got stamina NB/DK completely OP, with no reason left to play magicka NB in smallscale.
Where stamina builds needed a buff was largescale fights (AoE) and here they got nothing. Not even power extraction scaling on mighty...

i see your point. but the first question that prompt this discussion was whether or not a mag nb will be obsolete. to my original point, mag nb will not be obsolete. imo, they have the most versatility of any mag class. mag classes got a buff with annulment. mag nb still dominate with vd. proxy will still be a damn solid choice with fighting 3 or more people. even smaller scale than that the mag nb has many options to replace proxy with. in no way shape or form are mag nb going to be underpowered this patch. imo it comes down to personal choice. whether you choose mag or stam gameplay you will be very satisfied either way and be viable either way you choose.

I don't think magicka nightblade will be underpowered, I think stamina NB and stamina DK will be better on every point for smallscale, their singletarget damage is going to be insane, better heals and they will have a decent shield (the only thing with prox det that was magicka exclusive). I'm also very afraid of the impact of heavy attack+incapaciting strike combo on overall PvP. Such an easy way to oneshot with little counters; barely predictable and not even from stealth.. ughh
Nonetheless mag nb will most likely still be the way to go for bombing and group dps.

Only if by small scale you mean 1v1, then yes, stamina nbs will probably be stronger. Build diversity inherently means some will be better than others in some aspects. But on 2-3 vs X things are different and magicka nbs might very well be the strongest.

Care to develop why?

You mean why a Resto staff wielder would offer more group play support?

What support do you need when you can easily instakill in single target and can rely on your own for survivability. If what you're lookking for is support in a group of 2-3 then better run magicka templars or sorc instead of a magicka nightblade thats going to spend all his time trying to get cloak to work.

And why would you instakill in single target when you can aoe bomb them again? To clarify what I'm saying, in my opinion stamblades will probably be stronger in 1v1 scenarios compared to magicka. That doesn't mean magicka is dead or even weak on 1v1 nor that they'll be useless on small-scale pvp, which I define as 2-3 vs X too. In fact I believe they'll be stronger in these cases.

Now, I wonder if you were as vocal as you are now regarding stamina vs magicka disparity when Thieves guild and Vicious Death launched.

If the 2-3vX is a situation where you are agaisnt 6+ people stacked together then true, magicka nightblade could be more effective damage wise. This is not often the case though, and in classic 1vX/2-3vX where the X isnt 6+ people stacked up, I truly believe there is no advantage whatsoever to play magicka instead of stamina. Stamina NB has always been strong for this kind of fight (example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afvxkGHq0qQ) and his busrt+survivability just got insanely buffed. When it comes to 1v1, magicka NB is at the moment not better than Stamina NB or DK to say the least, with the huge buffs to those 2 classes, I wonder why anybody that wants to be competitive would stick with magicka NB instead of turning stamina.
By the way, when TG was launched new deto+vicious death was a fix to groups stacking up, except the first week or so when people had to adapt and learn to spread out a bit, it didnt change anything to how I play solo/smallscale tbh, I dont use it in groups of less than 4, I dont even use deto when I'm solo. And yes the stamina/magicka disparity needed fixing, but for largescale fights, not for singletarget/smallscale and... all the stam buffs were singletarget/smallscale buffs...

Ambush should get a minimum distance and empower from ambush needs to go, an empowered incapacitating strike is just to much.

Power extraction should be physical or posion damage.

I would like to day that I am sad to see nb get diseas and dk get poison. I was really hoping that nb would get poison morphs.
Assassin
Death Stroke
Love the change to having one of the morphs scale off of mighty. I like that you chose this morph as it was never used. Thank you for changing how the stun works too. This doesn't hurt mag builds because you didn't take anything away and the soul harvest morph will still be good for Stam builds to charge ults like meteor or consuming darkness. Great work here.

Assassin Blade
Love the change to killers bkade. It was long overdue. What I would like to see is the execute range increased. I don't think buffing it to 50% like the other executes is the answer either. Mainly because I don't like making all skills the same. A small range increase will suffice. Have it start scaling at 30%. I would love to see a range increase to 7 meters, but let's just start with increased execute range.

Teleport Strike
All morphs are good as is. No minimum range required. It is what makes the ability unique. I also think the empowering buff should stay on ambush unless you give us access to the buff somewhere else in our class skills. Power extraction comes to mind. Perhaps lowering the damage of the attack a bit though.

Blur
Double take is fine as is.
The other morph I think needs to be revisited. Maybe provide a 5 second minor vitality buff or major mending. Perhaps snar removal or immunity. I just don't think the resistance is worth going for in any situation.

Mark Target
Piercing mark is fine as is.
Reapers mark is just not cutting it. Either increase the duration or revisit the skill altogether. Perhaps when you kill someone with it you can reactivate it within the duration to heal yourself with the same heal amount you get when you kill a player vurrently. This will simply allow you to control when you get the burst heal while not being op because it would still need to be activated within the duration of the cure skill time. Much like hiw summon shade works.

Grim Focus
Great change to give stamina some action. These skills are fine as is.

Shadow
Consuming Darkness
I like both morphs. Everything should stay as is.

Shadow Cloak
Everything is fine and should stay as is. Thank you for fixing some of the bugs.

Veiled Strike
Everything is fine and should stay as is.

Path of Darkness
Don't really ever find a use for this on my bar for my play style. I think the damage and heals are solid though. Perhaps a wider path would make it more useful for me.

Aspect of Terror
Mass hysteria is still the go to here for most if not all builds. It was a solid attempt in changing manifestation of terror last patch. Perhaps larger traps. Perhaps adding some aoe damage. Perhaps make this morph a ranged single target fear.

Summon Shade
I like both abilities and think both have their place.

Siphoning
Soul Shred
Love both morphs. No need to change them.

Strife
Love both morphs.the critical nerf sucks, but I think it was necessary. I was hitting 3k critical heal ticks no problem. Given the heal and the damage output at the same time was too much. I am fine with that change.

Agony
I don't personally find use for this ability in any of my builds. Just personal preference though. I know plenty of people that like this ability. Not sure if one outperforms more than the other.

Cripple
Everything is fine here.

Siphoning Strikes
Siphoning attacks is fine.
Still no use for the other morph. Don't know anyone who uses it. Siphoning attacks is vastly superior. Add a passive to the other morph that gives max health. This would give tanks more of a reason to slot it and work it into their builds.

Drain Power
Ok so it doesn't make sense to me that drain power gives major brutality and is mag based. Switch this to major sorcery please.
Sap essence is fine as is.
Power extration desperately needso to get changed from magic damage. Was this an oversight? Perhaps this is where you can add the poison damage I was hoping for . Whatever the damage is, it needs to scale off mighty in the champ tree. I would expect that this ability is suppose to give Stam builds an option outside of weapon lines for aoe. As it stands, this is not accomplished because it is vastly inferior to any other aoe skill available in the skill lines. It doesn't need to be the best Stam aoe or anything, but at least provide a viable option to be used. Especially as a source to get major brutality.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

zerosingularity wrote: »

Siphoning skill, Power Extraction:

This is still Magic damage even though it is a Stamina skill. That needs fixing ASAP. I will post much more later, but I felt this was a glaring oversight that needed to be mentioned right away.

Yep, it seems it was missed.
Possibly it should be changed during PTS into disease like the other morphs.

Damage should be balanced around the fact it gives no healing and so to similar 360° AoE. Considering Steel Tornado has an execute function, raw damage of Power Extraction should be higher.
Otherwise it is better to keep the healing, like Sap Essence, just as stamina and disease.
I used temporary Power Extraction in a Thaumaturge experimental build pre TG and damage was not good even with 100 points in Thaumaturge.


About another stamina morph in Siphoning, as written by @vontariel , one of the morphs of Cripple could be an option for stamina NB ranged builds.

I am liking the change to incapacitating strike after spending some time with it; and I like how it deals disease damage it fits well with the healing debuff.

Since I'm waiting to have more time and EU characters copied to test stuff, can someone please explain me better how is the changement to Strife and similar skills?
If the hit of Strife is a critical hit, the healing tics are based on the critical hit for the whole duration.
If the hit of Strife is a normal hit, the healing tics are based on the normal hit for the whole duration.
Is this correct?

But for this changement, PvP wise, I never liked that this kind of skills are reduced twice by Battle Spirit, not just on the damage done, like every skill, but also on the healing based on 25% of the damage inflicted.
If critical strikes don't "double dip" for healing, also Battle Spirit shouldn't "double dip", otherwise the 25% should be raised (30-35%) to be more on par with Searing Strike (DK), Surge (Sorc), Puncturing Sweep (Templar), etc.

Incap Strike is too strong for such a cheap ultimate.

On a NB you can literally use this every 17 seconds and it hits more than 60% of players health.
If you pop a potion its up after just 10 seconds and if you kill someone its up even faster.
With Heroic Slash you can spam this skill even more.

The stun is oke if dmg is lower or cost is increased, right now its simply imbalanced.

Don't know exactly where to place this but sometimes skills don't.. trigger? This problem doesn't happen that often, but at times I do have to swap back to a bar, or press a skill several times before it 'catches up' with my commands.

This is a video clip to show myself having to hit Refreshing Path multiple times before it decides to activate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsFQI-T0t1w

Nightblade

Hi guys, really nice work on the Nightblade we did get a bunch of stuff we were looking for now my cheap assassination is working like a Killing bee I love it !

I would have love a sta version of a dot so we could ditch the bow but that's about it

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

In the Imperial City patch, my Incapacitating Strike was already hitting for 8-9k in Cyrodiil (V16 dark elf NB, running 5pc hunding's 4pc Morkuldin. 5 med 1 heavy 1 light, with dual wield swords). The last thing it needed was a buff this patch.

Every class having an ult that scales with Mighty (physical, poison, disease) will be the main source of in-game rage this patch, calling it now.

Correction: not IC patch, Wrothgar patch.

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.