Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

PlagueMonk

The Poison vs Disease thing has me a bit confused but only a bit.

Admittedly both make sense for NBs but I would have thought (especially with the DB DLC) that poisons made the most sense. NBs are supposed to be the Melee DPS class. Disease only lessens healing back, not damage done. Poison is MORE damage = DPS class = NB.

What I really don't get is DKs doing poison? THAT I really do not get. IMHO NBs attacks should have been split between poison an disease and DK's damage should have been simply physical damage with maybe a bleed component (could have called it "melt") but poison? wtf. Poison and knight shouldn't even be in the same sentence let alone next to each other (unless you have a poisoned knight )

Jaronking

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

Nahh you messed up man Killerblade instead of Executioner.

susmitds

Jaronking wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

Nahh you messed up man Killerblade instead of Executioner.

And the other morph of Reverse Slice is now a crazy AoE execute.

susmitds

PlagueMonk wrote: »

The Poison vs Disease thing has me a bit confused but only a bit.

Admittedly both make sense for NBs but I would have thought (especially with the DB DLC) that poisons made the most sense. NBs are supposed to be the Melee DPS class. Disease only lessens healing back, not damage done. Poison is MORE damage = DPS class = NB.

What I really don't get is DKs doing poison? THAT I really do not get. IMHO NBs attacks should have been split between poison an disease and DK's damage should have been simply physical damage with maybe a bleed component (could have called it "melt") but poison? wtf. Poison and knight shouldn't even be in the same sentence let alone next to each other (unless you have a poisoned knight )

Well tbh, the poison does hardly mean extra DPS, as it procs Poisoned Status effect which is not too powerful a DoT. Nightblades can also proc it with a Poison enchant and bow DoTs. The disease is more unique tbh.

PlagueMonk

susmitds wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

The Poison vs Disease thing has me a bit confused but only a bit.

Admittedly both make sense for NBs but I would have thought (especially with the DB DLC) that poisons made the most sense. NBs are supposed to be the Melee DPS class. Disease only lessens healing back, not damage done. Poison is MORE damage = DPS class = NB.

What I really don't get is DKs doing poison? THAT I really do not get. IMHO NBs attacks should have been split between poison an disease and DK's damage should have been simply physical damage with maybe a bleed component (could have called it "melt") but poison? wtf. Poison and knight shouldn't even be in the same sentence let alone next to each other (unless you have a poisoned knight )

Well tbh, the poison does hardly mean extra DPS, as it procs Poisoned Status effect which is not too powerful a DoT. Nightblades can also proc it with a Poison enchant and bow DoTs. The disease is more unique tbh.

and 15% less healing is hardly anything either. Now if it cut healing by say 40% or stacked, NOW we would be talking worthwhile

aLi3nZ

As a mageblade, I think I won't run sheild for pvp, besides healing Ward that is. Sheild Doesnt last long enough and cost is too much. What I will be doing is using defending trait on my weapons. I have been using it on pts and feeling quite tanky and still massive dps enough to one shot many players. 4800+ spell power with julianos and clever alchemist. Using dark cloak, prox det soul harvest concealed weapon. Around 22k physical and spell resistance and 770 critical resistance.

bowmanz607

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

I'm confused. How is this different from now?

Strider_Roshin

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Incap Strike is too strong for such a cheap ultimate.

On a NB you can literally use this every 17 seconds and it hits more than 60% of players health.
If you pop a potion its up after just 10 seconds and if you kill someone its up even faster.
With Heroic Slash you can spam this skill even more.

The stun is oke if dmg is lower or cost is increased, right now its simply imbalanced.

Kas wrote: »

Incap Strike is too strong. It is by far the best ultimate in solo and small scale situations now. The rest of the NB actually looks like it could use buffs. But this single ability decides fights. The dps is huge due to the low cost. The burst is huge (seems to be the hardest hittign single target right now, especially since surprise attack also puts fracture on targets) and can be times with other bursts.

So when my magicka Nightblade was landing 32k with Soul Harvest, and my stamina Nightblade was only doing 24k, it was balanced? But now that they're doing around the same damage it's OP? You guys are just not satisfied unless you're overpowered, aren't you? So selfish.

Erondil

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Incap Strike is too strong for such a cheap ultimate.

On a NB you can literally use this every 17 seconds and it hits more than 60% of players health.
If you pop a potion its up after just 10 seconds and if you kill someone its up even faster.
With Heroic Slash you can spam this skill even more.

The stun is oke if dmg is lower or cost is increased, right now its simply imbalanced.

Kas wrote: »

Incap Strike is too strong. It is by far the best ultimate in solo and small scale situations now. The rest of the NB actually looks like it could use buffs. But this single ability decides fights. The dps is huge due to the low cost. The burst is huge (seems to be the hardest hittign single target right now, especially since surprise attack also puts fracture on targets) and can be times with other bursts.

So when my magicka Nightblade was landing 32k with Soul Harvest, and my stamina Nightblade was only doing 24k, it was balanced? But now that they're doing around the same damage it's OP? You guys are just not satisfied unless you're overpowered, aren't you? So selfish.

They are not even playing magicka NB on live LOL

RazielSR

Everybody says that stam nb is better for ganking...but is that true? You can gank with you magblade...is just that you need more hits but you can escape easily and drive the other person mad.
Now with the poison thing.You can mark, land a resto thick,lotus,concealed,soul harvest and 70% of times is dead. If not fear,and end like you want.

Van_0S

bowmanz607 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

I'm confused. How is this different from now?

Stun!!

Van_0S

RazielSR wrote: »

Everybody says that stam nb is better for ganking...but is that true? You can gank with you magblade...is just that you need more hits but you can escape easily and drive the other person mad.
Now with the poison thing.You can mark, land a resto thick,lotus,concealed,soul harvest and 70% of times is dead. If not fear,and end like you want.

The difference is the burst damage/ kill an enemy player less than 1 sec.

MagiNB needs to use alot of hard work to get burst up damage i.e. sometimes the target doesn't die.
Note: you have to wait for your soul tether to fill up or ultimate.

StamNB doesn't require that much work in order to get that burst damage.
Note: sometimes you dont require an ultimate to kill your target.

Note: Gank build only

RazielSR

Ofc that is why I said you need more hits. Soul theter fills in nothing with some pot and soul harvest anyway.

But I dont see that big diff from stam to mag. Or maybe is that Im lazy to make a 5th alt nb stam because I dont want to reroll my mag.

In case I make another alt...imperial/redguards would be the best option? gank build I mean. Maybe khajit but I dont like them at all. My magblade is a dunmer and will return to vamp with db.

Lava_Croft

If it takes more hits then it takes more time which inherently means it's worse for ganking.

bowmanz607

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

I'm confused. How is this different from now?

Stun!!

You don't need a stun for that combo. It drops people quick. Besides, you can get the stun if you need it by switching up the combo a bit or adding a fear.

dday3six

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

susmitds

dday3six wrote: »

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

No I believe it scales like an ultimate, that is, off higher stats.

SanTii.92

susmitds wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

No I believe it scales like an ultimate, that is, off higher stats.

It's supposed to be like that, but it's not. It's not scaling of stamina, or weapon dmge.

dday3six

susmitds wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

No I believe it scales like an ultimate, that is, off higher stats.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-dps-guide/page/58/

I read about it from Jeckll's TF thread. I'm on console and thus cannot test for myself, but I have found Jeckll's info to be reliable.

Strider_Roshin

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Everybody says that stam nb is better for ganking...but is that true? You can gank with you magblade...is just that you need more hits but you can escape easily and drive the other person mad.
Now with the poison thing.You can mark, land a resto thick,lotus,concealed,soul harvest and 70% of times is dead. If not fear,and end like you want.

The difference is the burst damage/ kill an enemy player less than 1 sec.

MagiNB needs to use alot of hard work to get burst up damage i.e. sometimes the target doesn't die.
Note: you have to wait for your soul tether to fill up or ultimate.

StamNB doesn't require that much work in order to get that burst damage.
Note: sometimes you dont require an ultimate to kill your target.

Note: Gank build only

Lol yeah okay, I've been attacked by a vr 16 stam Nightblade as I was lock picking a chest, and I killed him. If someone is getting killed in less than 1 second, it's not just because someone has high burst, it's because the guy getting ganked has garbage defense. And now (in the PTS) I would say stamina has an edge, but you know what magicka doesn't need to try hard to get? Good resource management. In PvP, magicka can use max food, whereas stamina is stuck with regen drinks. We need to sacrifice a lot of damage in order to get what you guys naturally have.

Strider_Roshin

susmitds wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

No I believe it scales like an ultimate, that is, off higher stats.

This is how it is now on live. Not sure how it is on the PTS.

Code2501

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I would love if shades became useful somehow.

To give stamina something to use in shadow they should make it into a stamina siphoning dot, leave the dot/debuff as is but make it return a modest amount of stamina to the NB.

ninjaguyman

Lots of changes, pretty much all of which seem good to me. But I'd just like to bring up again that Leeching Strikes, a siphoning strikes morph, is still woefully underwhelming. First it would be great if it weren't a toggle, but regardless of that stays or not it still needs some additional effects if it is to be even considered by any tank. Maybe buff it so it gives like 5% extra health while slotted, and up how much health it returns.

Most tanks, which Leeching strikes is supposedly for, take Siphoning Attacks because the superior resource management is just a no brainer. So something cool we could also do would be to make the % chance to restore resources a baseline effect of Siphoning Strikes(with a slightly less proc chance than Siphoning Attacks). Then for the Leeching Strikes morph there would be the extra 5% health and extra life leech on hit or something, but the proc could also restores a percent of health in addition to mag and stam being restored as well. Siphoning attacks stays the same and has a higher proc chance for just stam and mag. Something like that, but something a little bigger than a 1% heal buff is gonna have to happen to get people to even consider leeching strikes. Surely leeching strikes as it is now isn't this ability's final form.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I would like to day that I am sad to see nb get diseas and dk get poison. I was really hoping that nb would get poison morphs.
Assassin
Death Stroke
Love the change to having one of the morphs scale off of mighty. I like that you chose this morph as it was never used. Thank you for changing how the stun works too. This doesn't hurt mag builds because you didn't take anything away and the soul harvest morph will still be good for Stam builds to charge ults like meteor or consuming darkness. Great work here.

Assassin Blade
Love the change to killers bkade. It was long overdue. What I would like to see is the execute range increased. I don't think buffing it to 50% like the other executes is the answer either. Mainly because I don't like making all skills the same. A small range increase will suffice. Have it start scaling at 30%. I would love to see a range increase to 7 meters, but let's just start with increased execute range.

Teleport Strike
All morphs are good as is. No minimum range required. It is what makes the ability unique. I also think the empowering buff should stay on ambush unless you give us access to the buff somewhere else in our class skills. Power extraction comes to mind. Perhaps lowering the damage of the attack a bit though.

Blur
Double take is fine as is.
The other morph I think needs to be revisited. Maybe provide a 5 second minor vitality buff or major mending. Perhaps snar removal or immunity. I just don't think the resistance is worth going for in any situation.

Mark Target
Piercing mark is fine as is.
Reapers mark is just not cutting it. Either increase the duration or revisit the skill altogether. Perhaps when you kill someone with it you can reactivate it within the duration to heal yourself with the same heal amount you get when you kill a player vurrently. This will simply allow you to control when you get the burst heal while not being op because it would still need to be activated within the duration of the cure skill time. Much like hiw summon shade works.

Grim Focus
Great change to give stamina some action. These skills are fine as is.

Shadow
Consuming Darkness
I like both morphs. Everything should stay as is.

Shadow Cloak
Everything is fine and should stay as is. Thank you for fixing some of the bugs.

Veiled Strike
Everything is fine and should stay as is.

Path of Darkness
Don't really ever find a use for this on my bar for my play style. I think the damage and heals are solid though. Perhaps a wider path would make it more useful for me.

Aspect of Terror
Mass hysteria is still the go to here for most if not all builds. It was a solid attempt in changing manifestation of terror last patch. Perhaps larger traps. Perhaps adding some aoe damage. Perhaps make this morph a ranged single target fear.

Summon Shade
I like both abilities and think both have their place.

Siphoning
Soul Shred
Love both morphs. No need to change them.

Strife
Love both morphs.the critical nerf sucks, but I think it was necessary. I was hitting 3k critical heal ticks no problem. Given the heal and the damage output at the same time was too much. I am fine with that change.

Agony
I don't personally find use for this ability in any of my builds. Just personal preference though. I know plenty of people that like this ability. Not sure if one outperforms more than the other.

Cripple
Everything is fine here.

Siphoning Strikes
Siphoning attacks is fine.
Still no use for the other morph. Don't know anyone who uses it. Siphoning attacks is vastly superior. Add a passive to the other morph that gives max health. This would give tanks more of a reason to slot it and work it into their builds.

Drain Power
Ok so it doesn't make sense to me that drain power gives major brutality and is mag based. Switch this to major sorcery please.
Sap essence is fine as is.
Power extration desperately needso to get changed from magic damage. Was this an oversight? Perhaps this is where you can add the poison damage I was hoping for . Whatever the damage is, it needs to scale off mighty in the champ tree. I would expect that this ability is suppose to give Stam builds an option outside of weapon lines for aoe. As it stands, this is not accomplished because it is vastly inferior to any other aoe skill available in the skill lines. It doesn't need to be the best Stam aoe or anything, but at least provide a viable option to be used. Especially as a source to get major brutality.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

I use the other Siphoning Attack morph Leeching Strikes it's bad the light attack heal and resource return is much weaker then Siphoning Attacks and the base power while still having the 20% self nerf.

Now I paired it with Shalidor's Curse (max health, 4% healing, max health and when under 50% health light attacks heal). Even when you mix the power with it's perfect set match it does hold up but I do have build details if anyone wants to self test.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Incap Strike is too strong for such a cheap ultimate.

On a NB you can literally use this every 17 seconds and it hits more than 60% of players health.
If you pop a potion its up after just 10 seconds and if you kill someone its up even faster.
With Heroic Slash you can spam this skill even more.

The stun is oke if dmg is lower or cost is increased, right now its simply imbalanced.

This is the case on live with MageBlades.

RazielSR

Well maybe I will roll an stamblade so I have my mag and stamblade. It will be beter now dw and bow than 1h and bow I think?

NoFlash

Please change power extraction to deal physical or disease damage and possibly add a stamina morph/version to cripple.
Loved using cripple in BWB when I was leveling up my magblade alt

Van_0S

bowmanz607 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

A stamNB gank build rotation will be like this.....
Rally>Shadow disguise> Ambush> Incapacitated strike > light attack > Surprise attack > light attack > Executioner.

I'm confused. How is this different from now?

Stun!!

You don't need a stun for that combo. It drops people quick. Besides, you can get the stun if you need it by switching up the combo a bit or adding a fear.

True!!
But if you want to use your magicka to escape (cloak)from battle then this strategy is also usefull .i.e. Using your ultimate as a stun.

Helluin

dday3six wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I've heard that Relentless Assault bow proc scales with max Magicka, Spell Power, and Spell Pen. If that is the case even with the base damage being Disease it's still lacking compared to it's Magicka counterpart.

No I believe it scales like an ultimate, that is, off higher stats.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-dps-guide/page/58/

I read about it from Jeckll's TF thread. I'm on console and thus cannot test for myself, but I have found Jeckll's info to be reliable.

I read Jeckll's post as well but, testing it myself, the damage is increased roughly by a 10% when Major Brutality is up.
Even if Jeckll has a great knowledge and experience, honestly I disagree this time: the proc worked correctly for me.
It should scale like an Ultimate infact.

Malanor

Why does Power Extraction Morph still deal magic damage considering stamina adjustment treatment for the others stamina based abilities. None uses this morph