babylon wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Just to recap - these people who have not been subbing all this time seem to think the people who have been subbing all this time are idiots paying for something the b2pers don't think is of any value. Soon as an item that the b2p people think is of value they want it to be something they can have while still not buying a sub as to them a sub isn't of value, even though a certain item that now comes with a sub is of value to them. They want something, but do not want to have to pay as much as a subber pays, because to the b2p mind it's foolish to waste money like we do - they are so used to getting everything they want cheaply. In short, they want ZOS to give it to them cheaper same as everything else is for them.


______________________

Important thing to note about your idea: this is the first time since B2P was introduced that they're offering an exclusive item.

And it's about time some subscription-only benefits were introduced with value enough to make some people at least consider subscribing now. This is doing its job, and for this to work, it needs to remain a subscription-only item, or we all might as well drop our subs.

I disagree, money is money and in your eyes the only money is sub-money I guess.

Again you're missing the point I clearly made in the first post of mine you quoted - it's cheaper by far to b2p what you need than it is to subscribe, so making subscribing more attractive is financially sound (and will get us all more content faster).

On top of this, a Crafting Bag is not something you need, it's just something you want. Now start wanting to subscribe.

And you're missing the point I've made: prior to this there has been the CHOICE to buy or subscribe, they're taking away the choice to do so. You're treating the people who don't subscribe like the problem when in reality you're taking your anger at ZOS for not making ESO+ worth a damn and bashing them for being "cheaper" while making subscribers sound higher on the totem pole. [snip]

Furthermore:
A subscriber prior to crafting bags: $15/mo
A subscriber after crafting bags: $15/mo
Total cost to subscriber: $0 more than what they were already paying

A non-subscriber: Whatever ZOS wants to price it as
Total: Whatever ZOS wants to price it as.

Please tell me how subscribers contriboot more in this sense or why they should even care if a crown store version is added?

[edited for bait]

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Just to recap - these people who have not been subbing all this time seem to think the people who have been subbing all this time are idiots paying for something the b2pers don't think is of any value. Soon as an item that the b2p people think is of value they want it to be something they can have while still not buying a sub as to them a sub isn't of value, even though a certain item that now comes with a sub is of value to them. They want something, but do not want to have to pay as much as a subber pays, because to the b2p mind it's foolish to waste money like we do - they are so used to getting everything they want cheaply. In short, they want ZOS to give it to them cheaper same as everything else is for them.


______________________

Has nothing to do with wanting things cheaper and you're right, I find no use for subbing. I already spend more in a year than a subscriber does, so why shouldn't I be allowed to purchase it? You choose to sub to support them, I choose to purchase crowns instead to support the game. $15 a month or $20-$50 a month? Do the math to figure out which one adds up to more. Go ahead, I'll wait....

You're right though, it finally has something I want from it, but don't I spend enough already? Why should I have to pay an additional $15 a month to get an item that should be available to all for purchase in game without a monthly subscription.

But you won't have to spend $15 a month more because you'll get free crowns included with the sub that will reduce the amount of purchased crowns that you will need. The net financial outlay, if you do as you say and purchase crowns every month, with be zero.

I'm hoping for another big sale on crowns. I'll buy all the DLC, and if they make the crafting bag purchasable , I'll cancel my sub and save money long term.

Zyle wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

There is still a choice, just now there's a clear incentive to subscribe, by giving an item that has value as a convenience item yet is not an essential. It's not about being higher on the totem pole, it's about paying for something and giving the price asked. That can only be a subscription (aka rental), not a one-off purchase, so that the money is always flowing.

Everyone all whined about the price of convenience item but non-essential Banker and Merchant assistants the exact same way, and that was offered to us all as a one-off purchase. Now everyone has calmed down again. This too will pass.

Did you even read my post?

EDIT: I'll get you a small response, you seem to misunderstand how entitlement works. Subscribers will pay $0 for this addition. You payed $15/mo prior to and will still pay $15/mo after. So you got it for free. Now you're telling people who want the option of BUYING it that they have to suck it up and give a company that doesn't know how to stabilize a game that has been out for 2 years a monthly fee. So yeah.

You misunderstand how entitlement works friend. Paying a set price for benefits and continuing to do so after other benefits are added is not entitlement. Screaming for benefits to change the way they are obtained to suit your needs however, is entitlement. You're so salty about issues you were having with the game prior to this that you have latched on to this debate to use it as a platform to further your incessant whining. I don't recognize your platform, no one should. Move on. I'm trying to enjoy my awesome crafting bag in peace.

[minor edit for quote]

Callous2208 wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

There is still a choice, just now there's a clear incentive to subscribe, by giving an item that has value as a convenience item yet is not an essential. It's not about being higher on the totem pole, it's about paying for something and giving the price asked. That can only be a subscription (aka rental), not a one-off purchase, so that the money is always flowing.

Everyone all whined about the price of convenience item but non-essential Banker and Merchant assistants the exact same way, and that was offered to us all as a one-off purchase. Now everyone has calmed down again. This too will pass.

Did you even read my post?

EDIT: I'll get you a small response, you seem to misunderstand how entitlement works. Subscribers will pay $0 for this addition. You payed $15/mo prior to and will still pay $15/mo after. So you got it for free. Now you're telling people who want the option of BUYING it that they have to suck it up and give a company that doesn't know how to stabilize a game that has been out for 2 years a monthly fee. So yeah.

You misunderstand how entitlement works friend. Paying a set price for benefits and continuing to do so after other benefits are added is not entitlement. Screaming for benefits to change the way they are obtained to suit your needs however, is entitlement. You're so salty about issues you were having with the game prior to this that you have latched on to this debate to use it as a platform to further your incessant whining. I don't recognize your platform, no one should. Move on. I'm trying to enjoy my awesome crafting bag in peace.

[minor edit for quote]

Incorrect, friend, unfortunately I have a perfect understanding of entitlement.

Entitlement:
"the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment."

Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard

Crafting bags: take away that choice

Result: not entitlement, entitlement would be the case if the standard were to be not having a choice in buying what a subscriber has access to.

By that definition the subscriber is the entitled one.

Nice try though, and no, I didn't introduce my issues with the game on my own, it was introduced through subscribers suggesting I should subscribe soley because ZOS changes their pattern and offers this exclusively to subscribers. I require a stable platform before I give my money monthly.

[Edit for baiting]

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Has nothing to do with wanting things cheaper and you're right, I find no use for subbing. I already spend more in a year than a subscriber does, so why shouldn't I be allowed to purchase it? You choose to sub to support them, I choose to purchase crowns instead to support the game. $15 a month or $20-$50 a month? Do the math to figure out which one adds up to more. Go ahead, I'll wait....

You're right though, it finally has something I want from it, but don't I spend enough already? Why should I have to pay an additional $15 a month to get an item that should be available to all for purchase in game without a monthly subscription.

If you don't sub now, and you pay $20-$50 a month to buy crowns, why not sub and then only pay $5-$35 a month for the extra crowns you need as you need them?

Zyle wrote: »

Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard

Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.

You could not buy the 10% extra gold.

You could not buy the 10% faster research times.

You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.

So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.

The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.

Divinius wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard

Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.

You could not buy the 10% extra gold.

You could not buy the 10% faster research times.

You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.

So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.

The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.

I didn't think we were arguing points prior to ESO:TU.

babylon wrote: »

Just to recap - these people who have not been subbing all this time seem to think the people who have been subbing all this time are idiots paying for something the b2pers don't think is of any value. Soon as an item that the b2p people think is of value they want it to be something they can have while still not buying a sub as to them a sub isn't of value, even though a certain item that now comes with a sub is of value to them. They want something, but do not want to have to pay as much as a subber pays, because to the b2p mind it's foolish to waste money like we do - they are so used to getting everything they want cheaply. In short, they want ZOS to give it to them cheaper same as everything else is for them.


______________________

Recap from a B2P point of view (my own)...

A whole year of reading "waaa my sub is too expensive" "waaa my sub isn't worth it" "waaa my crowns haven't arrived" "waaa the perks are pointless" "waaa I'm unsubbing because of reasons" "waaa I quit the game last month but you guys have taken an extra month out of my account" "waaa customer service sucks" "waaa zos sucks"

Damn subscribing sounds like a real pain in the rusty sherriffs badge, I'm sure glad zos sold us on the B2P option, awesome I can buy the new DLC zones rather than rent them and if I need to do other stuff with real life and the family I can take my time and get back to it later, sure it costs a little more and I don't get free crowns or any of the perks the subscribers are always whining about but hey at least I'm still supporting the game. hell yeah a new outfit or mount, cool I'll just buy a few crown packs, no monthly sub on top of my ps+ or live bill that's awesome in case I find I have an unexpected extra on a different bill the following month.


My initial outlay for the game was £80 GBP which is around $120 USD, 3 DLCs around £20 to £25 GBP each so maybe $30 to $35 USD each and then random crown purchases for not just myself but also family members accounts probably amounting to around £100 GBP or around $140 USD,

So within the 10 months since console release under the B2P model which was sold to me by zos under the pretence that the game was not subscription based therefor under the assumption that no benefits other than the ones currently advertised at the time would be implemented I've spent roughly:
£ 255 GPB
or
$ 365 USD

Tell me more about how I've not supported the game and how much worthier you are than I and how you're more deserving to be treat differently .

Zyle wrote: »

I'm not directly mad at subbers, I am mad at ZOS for this poor decision and the twisted viewpoints that nonsubbers shouldn't have access to this bag simply because they don't sub.

Yes, after all, we don't want a 'for profit' company to offer something that entices more consistent sales... which a subscription is. A 'once and done' purchase does not continue to generate revenue over time... a subscription does. Offering the 'unlimited' crafting bag for subscribers is a way to generate more revenue over time.