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Shuffle needs to be reduced to 6 seconds
Lord_Hev
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If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
Discuss.
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AzraelKrieg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Either reduce the time or reduce the dodge chance on it. What is it, 25% chance on live at the moment?Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NACR2000+Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50 Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50Rulnakh - EP Sorc - 50Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50More-Tail - EP Warden - 50Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50Bone Soldier - EP Necro - 50Naps-During-Trails - EP Necro - 501 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hmm shields mitigate all damage. Shuffle has a 20% mitigate all damage. You're right, the duration comparison isn't fair. Shuffle needs to last 30 seconds in order to be equivalent. Thanks for pointing this out.23 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
So you want something that is not guaranteed to protect you to be reduce because of something that is guaranteed and still guaranteed to protect to reduce. If shuffle was reduce in order to be fair it needs to have a higher Dodge rate because at the rate you want you are not guaranteed to dodge in that short time span.5 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
So you want something that is not guaranteed to protect you to be reduce because of something that is guaranteed and still guaranteed to protect to reduce. If shuffle was reduce in order to be fair it needs to have a higher Dodge rate because at the rate you want you are not guaranteed to dodge in that short time span.
My idea was merely an example. Shuffle cannot operate in this new meta as it currently stands. Especially when stam builds can now run bone shield.
I am biased for magic builds, so I encourage stam players to chip in with their ideas so we can get a constructive discussion going.
Currently, shuffle gives stam builds what magic sorcs -currently- thrive at. Offense and defense at the same time. So if ZOS wants to tone this down and make all shields only last 6 seconds, this make defensive moves act as spikes of protection that subside soon after you begin an offensive maneuver. Stam builds maintaining shuffle while also being able to run bone shield is basically just shifting magic sorc "best of both worlds" to stam meta. This needs to be looked at.2 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭Sounds like a great idea, but do this for blur as well. The only problem I see with this is that it will make the Tava's Favor set pretty useless.1
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DKsUnite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drop it to 15 but no further. It's good how it is imoVyr Cor | Magicka Dragonknight | DC
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Daveheart✭✭✭✭While, I'm not big on the changes made to the duration of shields, shuffle (at its base mechanic) is fine how it is. There's definitely a difference between guaranteed mitigation and RNG-based mitigation. Also, yes, Tava's Favor would be pretty much useless.Daggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)
The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters0 -
Morimizo✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Yes, let's make all buffs 6 seconds. That sounds fun.
Why stop there? How about each buff you cast has a 10% chance to work like it says, once every 2 seconds for 6 seconds?
Personally, I think every skill should have a punishing RNG element.
Swing, and a miss! Most of the time. But not always.
Oh, another TINY little change; sometimes your enemies will be your friends, and your friends will be your enemies. It's just like that sometimes. When it makes sense, anyway.
Most sincerely,
Uncle Sheo4 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭That means shields need to be affected by major defile, just like healing.This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.0 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
Then all things being equal RNG Shields being applied then to a percentage chance of activating? ..no, didn't think so.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You know, tanks use this skill too. And I will cry bloody murder if you lower this duration. It means more frequent rebuffing. It means a higher cost to keep it up (unless they lower the cost relative to the duration). We already have enough short-term buffs to keep track of. Hell no.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Umm... No. If that's the case then they need to reduce it's cost by 1k. Now if you're talking about shuffles 'shuffle' ability and not major evasion then you'd be increasing it by 3 or so seconds.不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
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Coined by Maxwell0 -
AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭NO! PvE tanks use shuffle and it would be near impossible to recast it every 6s and have stamina to block, taunt, roll, and heal.1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Drop it to 15 but no further. It's good how it is imo
Shields are also good as they are on live, but they're still getting nerfed. So out with the nerfhammer for shuffle!MaxwellCrystal wrote: »Umm... No. If that's the case then they need to reduce it's cost by 1k. Now if you're talking about shuffles 'shuffle' ability and not major evasion then you'd be increasing it by 3 or so seconds.
They didn't reduce the shield cost, so why should shuffle get a better treatment?Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on April 26, 2016 2:50PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Shields are 100% reliable. Shuffle is not. Apples to oranges. Your bias is showing.1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Shields are 100% reliable. Shuffle is not. Apples to oranges. Your bias is showing.
Same to you, shields are super easy to take down, it's not as easy to get rid of shuffle. Besides, everyone whined about shields when this nerf wasn't needed. Only shield stacking was an issue, which still is in the game because zenimax are stupid.Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on April 26, 2016 2:53PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Bfish22090✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
for once qaevir, i actually agree with you0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Shields are 100% reliable. Shuffle is not. Apples to oranges. Your bias is showing.
Same to you, shields are super easy to take down, it's not as easy to get rid of shuffle. Besides, everyone whined about shields when this nerf wasn't needed. Only shield stacking was an issue, which still is in the game because zenimax are stupid.
Shields can be stacked. Dodge can't.
1 Shield can restore magic to you, shuffle can't.
Shields ignore crits making crit builds useless. Shuffle still takes dmg from crits.
Shields scale in strength, Shuffle doesn't.
Shields are reliable, shuffle isn't. (I've gone entire fights with shuffle doing nothing. Your shields never "fail" to work.)
Hell, make Shuffle 100% dodge for 3 seconds if you want (this would be SO OP) but you can't compare shields and shuffle because they are drastically different and calling for a nerf on Shuffle is redic when it isn't even reliable in the first place. (excluding the supposed shuffle bug.)Edited by AfkNinja on April 26, 2016 2:58PM0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
The concept of "if I'm being nerfed" followed by the dislogic of "others need nerfing too" is sort of inane.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Shields are 100% reliable. Shuffle is not. Apples to oranges. Your bias is showing.
Same to you, shields are super easy to take down, it's not as easy to get rid of shuffle. Besides, everyone whined about shields when this nerf wasn't needed. Only shield stacking was an issue, which still is in the game because zenimax are stupid.
Shields can be stacked. Dodge can't.
1 Shield can restore magic to you, shuffle can't.
Shields ignore crits making crit builds useless. Shuffle still takes dmg from crits.
Shields scale in strength, Shuffle doesn't.
Shields are reliable, shuffle isn't. (I've gone entire fights with shuffle doing nothing. Your shields never "fail" to work.)
Hell, make Shuffle 100% dodge for 3 seconds if you want (this would be SO OP) but you can't compare shields and shuffle because they are drastically different and calling for a nerf on Shuffle is redic when it isn't even reliable in the first place. (excluding the supposed shuffle bug.)
Shuffle is a defensive ability though, and as everything defensive is getting nerfed into the ground we might as well make that next to useless next, right? That's all zenimax are good at anyway. Well, that and overpriced crown store items.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Yes, let's make all buffs 6 seconds. That sounds fun.
Why stop there? How about each buff you cast has a 10% chance to work like it says, once every 2 seconds for 6 seconds?
Personally, I think every skill should have a punishing RNG element.
Swing, and a miss! Most of the time. But not always.
Oh, another TINY little change; sometimes your enemies will be your friends, and your friends will be your enemies. It's just like that sometimes. When it makes sense, anyway.
Most sincerely,
Uncle Sheo
To be honest this would make hilariously fun PvP at times. Prox det / Vicious Death your raid group when your allies suddenly become enemies. It would just be a free for all! No one is safe!PC/EU DC1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
The concept of "if I'm being nerfed" followed by the dislogic of "others need nerfing too" is sort of inane.
Hey, that's why shields got nerfed in the first place, because others whined about it, so be damn sure that I'll be calling for nerfs to all other abilities I don't use then.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
The concept of "if I'm being nerfed" followed by the dislogic of "others need nerfing too" is sort of inane.
I've been saying we just need to nerf everything. PvP should be no armor, no weapons, no skills. Just light and heavy punching!PC/EU DC1 -
Zyle✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
"I got nerfed so these guys should get nerfed too!" SMH OP.
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Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
The concept of "if I'm being nerfed" followed by the dislogic of "others need nerfing too" is sort of inane.
Hey, that's why shields got nerfed in the first place, because others whined about it, so be damn sure that I'll be calling for nerfs to all other abilities I don't use then.
Duration was reduced but overall shields just got buffed not nerfed. Anullment is now hardened ward for all magicka classes... (restores magic too...)
The duration nerf is an annoyance sure, but in fast paced combat your shield is gone in less than 6-8 seconds anyway and now you can double your shield with Anullment + Healing ward or Hardened Ward. It's fair to ask for a slightly longer duration just keep in mind other classes have been dealing with a 6 second shield from the start (Templar, our shield is now the only one based on HP too).Edited by AfkNinja on April 26, 2016 3:17PM0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »If ZOS wants combat in this game to now revolve around choosing when to go offense and when to go defensive like Chess moves, then shuffle needs to get the same treatment as all damage shields, and have it's duration reduced to approx: 6 seconds. Stam builds should not get preferential treatment now should they?
Discuss.
The concept of "if I'm being nerfed" followed by the dislogic of "others need nerfing too" is sort of inane.
Hey, that's why shields got nerfed in the first place, because others whined about it, so be damn sure that I'll be calling for nerfs to all other abilities I don't use then.
Pretty sure the nerf was because shield stacking is OP and needed balancing.
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