Morimizo wrote: »

This parallel move from VR to CP is not what I envisioned;

Wasn't the main idea to make it so folks could play together in any post 50 zone, without having the lengthy grind through Cadwell's Silver'Gold? I thought all post 50 areas would scale like Wrothgar, HB, and GC, so we could always play with different levels of player, and always get the right amount of XP and appropriate loot(we're going to outlevel Cadwell's Silver in an incredible hurry, and even likely get to that not-so-sweet spot of getting NO XP or loot).

Sheesh.

I'm of the same understanding so what we got it some crazy complicated situation which is not at all in line with any phased removal of VR.

Morimizo wrote: »

Wasn't the main idea to make it so folks could play together in any post 50 zone, without having the lengthy grind through Cadwell's Silver'Gold? I thought all post 50 areas would scale like Wrothgar, HB, and GC, so we could always play with different levels of player, and always get the right amount of XP and appropriate loot(we're going to outlevel Cadwell's Silver in an incredible hurry, and even likely get to that not-so-sweet spot of getting NO XP or loot).

My situation is on my main account I have 507 CP, and characters that are (levels as they are on live at the moment) 1xVR16, 1xVR15, 1xVR11, 3xVR9, and 2xVR2. Those that are now VR2 have not done any of Cadwells Silver or Gold, but because I have 507 CP, if I decide to quest through the 'normal' zone progression with them, they will earn a fraction of the xp because they will be massively overlevelled due to the CP on my account from other characters. If I continue questing on my alts I basically stop leveling up my CP, because they won't get much xp, and my CP cost is now high. People grinding in scaled zones will be earning appropriate xp whatever their level - it's a kick in the teeth for people who like to quest and do all the quest zones on alts instead of grinding endlessly - and there's no way we should be made to lose out because we spend our time playing through silver/gold story content.

I would LOVE to see all veteran level zones at max level with battle scaling and appropriate xp given for combat, that would be a good solution.

Astanphaeus wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]We will be awarding a one-time bonus of 2.5 Champion Points per Veteran Rank gained on your highest level character when you first log in when Dark Brotherhood is released!

• Each Veteran Rank will grant 2.5 Champion Points, up to a maximum of 40 points at VR16.

My PTS characters did not receive this 40 point bonus

486 on Live

486 on PTS

I'm assuming this won't actually happen until it goes live, which is why she said "when Dark Brotherhood is released!"

Would just be a monumental screw up if they wait till it is released on live and it doesn't work right. You would think that is something they would want tested on something like a Public Test Server... But honestly the way they use PTS seems to be more to give us players something to do while we wait for content instead of actually for testing.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Veteran Rank Removal

• Monsters will now scale up faster in difficulty through veteran zones.
• Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:
  • Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
  • Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

Does 160 CP cap applied when experience gain is calculated?
Or CP210+ players will only get 30% XP from CP160 mobs?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The way the system has been implemented is a big waste of development time while it causes a lot of new problems.

First since each 10 cp now equals one veteran level then nothing in the game has really changed. The only difference is what you call things but the game system with gear and mobs far beyond lvl 50 is still in the game.

Second as many people are at or beyond the cp cap then max cp level mobs of 160 is so far below their cp level that they get hit by the worst xp penalty against all mobs on all their lvl 50 chars including newly leveled up characters who still need to train up their skills.

Third the system with the random crafting nodes will waste crafters time and cause massive frustration when you can no longer go after and farm for materials you need as half the nodes will have materials of a level you don't need

You could have scrapped the entire system by simply giving people the option on accounts with a v16 that all alts could get to v16 instantly when they reached lvl 50 and kept the game as it is to get the same result, but without all the problems it now creates. And then spend all the wasted development time on improving the game.

Or just call VR 16 lvl 50 and use 50 for any VR requirement or NPC level.
done

I'm having a couple of bugs related to the vet rank removal.

1 - The first character I logged in was vr1 before, and I got 2 Champion Ranks. It seems that logging first on my vr1 stopped me from getting the 40 ranks when I logged in my vr16. On PTS, I went from 400 to 402 Champion Ranks.

2 - My low vets didn't get any attribute points. My vr1 has 49.

Abeille wrote: »

2 - My low vets didn't get any attribute points. My vr1 has 49.

From "Old Vet 4 not getting skillpoints and attribute points from removed V5-V16" thread:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fairly positive this only applies once the update is on the Live megaservers, but we'll double check to make sure.

@ZOS_GinaBruno So feedback and not a rant.

1. It doesn't feel like VR was removed
2. It does feel like alts are favored in progression which is appreciated
3. Using CP as player and as NPC feels very wrong. CP doesn't mean stronger so it shouldn't be a level indicator ever on either us or NPCs
4. Instead of usin CP, please revert NPCs of VR rank to 50-56 numeric levels
5. The 40 point exp penalty is rough....please change cp catch up to support this

In the end....you've made things more confusing instead of clear and the complaint of VR still exists but it's been made worse by trying to move VR to Cp as the systems are very different in progression.

In the end, levels need to stop with a single numeric that follows a base number. CP just needs to offer options to get stronger and better so this is why I'd suggest adjusting the 50+ numerically as it seems more logical but we as player characters should always align numerically in level with skill lines which all stop at 50

The way the Champion rank is displayed it looks a bit messy. And for example my main is v16 and has more than 300 CP but as I was doing the silver and gold content on my own pace , than means that I am now twice overlevelled for all the content that I will be doing, unless they added more difficulty to it.

Another issue is the way the armour stats are displayed. It looks quite messy, fonts are not necessarily consistent and the gold value being at the bottom looks a bit out of place. Please at least try to find a way to make them more presentable.

Enodoc wrote: »

Opux wrote: »

I'm disappointed that this basically amounted to renaming VR to CP, multiplying the number by 10, and then making it account-wide. The main problem people had with VR was the endless gear treadmill, and cool gear being out leveled and made unusable - this doesn't solve any of that. Crafting is trivialized because you absolutely don't want to invest in it until you can make and wear max level stuff.

Making VR account-wide was a step in the right direction, at least. If making progression horizontal instead of vertical is completely off the table, I think you could remedy this by making a way to "level-up" gear that is much cheaper than just making it from scratch.

Agreed. There were three primary issues to Veteran Ranks:

• Time to level to max
• Trivialised power-based gear treadmill
• Linearity of content

This has addressed one of those issues, the time taken to reach max level.

The exact things that should have been removed with removal of VRs have not been removed.

There was a fourth issue that I missed that VR removal was supposed to address, and I think it may have even been the one that kicked the whole "we're going to remove VRs" thing off in the first place:

• VR removal was supposed to narrow the significant gap between a VR1 and a VR10 VR12 VR14 VR16 player, to allow them to play together (and against each other) better. This does not happen if there's still this content-based gap from 10 to 160 CPs.

In above comments, NewBlacksmurf and I both suggested a system where mobs do not show CP, but they do show a 50+ level; I've come up with an alternative that ditches that idea, to return one of the original implications of having no VRs - all mobs at Level 50.

The essence of the suggestion here is battle-levelling, just as you get in Cyrodiil and Wrothgar. Whatever "50+" zone you enter, you would be battle levelled to its CP number; because of this, mobs would not need to show a CP number, as you will always match it (or be above it). The whole 40 CP XP cutoff needs to be removed, as it's just restricting the amount of content you can do and nerfing your reward for doing it. So the battle-levelled numbers would look something like this:

• Silver 1 - 20 CP
• Silver 2 - 40 CP
• Silver 3 - 60 CP
• Silver 4 - 80 CP
• Silver 5 - 100 CP
• Gold 1 - 20 CP
• Gold 2 - 40 CP
• Gold 3 - 60 CP
• Gold 4 - 80 CP
• Gold 5 - 100 CP
• Lower Crag - 120 CP
• Upper Crag - 140 CP
• Wrothgar - 90 CP
• Cyrodiil - 90 CP

With everyone battle-levelled to these numbers, showing the CP values would be unnecessary.

Edit: To be fair, considering this is entirely centred around battle levelling, you could just as easily have everything set at 160 CP, as there would be no effective difference. And with everything at 160, they may as well just show everything as Level 50. Then when they increase the gear to whatever comes next (say, CP 200), all of these zones would battle level everyone to CP 200, the mobs would go up to CP 200 as well, and would still say Level 50.

I played around with Dark Brotherhood DLC on PTS and noticed my V15 food/pots and V16 armor are no longer usable by my V16 Templar! WTH man! Please fix this !

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I was so excited for VR removal but these changes are not at all what I imagined. I assumed you would be making every zone in the game to be like the new zones with maybe them only scaling up to CP 140 gear.

This was never stated and has been a huge assumption by many players... in fact, they have stated a few times they have no intention of going back and updating older content. This means that only newer content is 'scaled', however, with VR removed, it also means that the necessity to grind through Cadwell's with alts is removed. If you still want to quest in older zones, you can, but you aren't going to be rewarded with much in way of XP for enemy kills... but you'll still receive full XP from turning in quests. People seem to think that XP is all about 'kills'... if you want to grind XP then go to a battle-leveled scaled zone and kill for full XP... otherwise, quest for the XP you get when turning in quests.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The way the system has been implemented is a big waste of development time while it causes a lot of new problems.

First since each 10 cp now equals one veteran level then nothing in the game has really changed. The only difference is what you call things but the game system with gear and mobs far beyond lvl 50 is still in the game.

Second as many people are at or beyond the cp cap then max cp level mobs of 160 is so far below their cp level that they get hit by the worst xp penalty against all mobs on all their lvl 50 chars including newly leveled up characters who still need to train up their skills.

Third the system with the random crafting nodes will waste crafters time and cause massive frustration when you can no longer go after and farm for materials you need as half the nodes will have materials of a level you don't need

You could have scrapped the entire system by simply giving people the option on accounts with a v16 that all alts could get to v16 instantly when they reached lvl 50 and kept the game as it is to get the same result, but without all the problems it now creates. And then spend all the wasted development time on improving the game.

This ^^^^^^^^^

Exactly.

But this is ZOS we are talking about.

lol people are already calling them "Champion Ranks".

Here we go.