Official Feedback Thread for Veteran Rank Removal

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2016

This is the official feedback thread for Veteran Rank Removal. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Were you able to equip all the gear you had before?
- If not, which pieces specifically did you have an issue with?
- What was your Champion rank?
Was it easy to understand what gear you could equip?
Could you tell how difficult a monster was just by looking at it?
How was the overall difficulty when fighting monsters? Was it comparable to how it is currently on the Live megaservers?
Do you have any other general feedback?

Caff32 · April 2016

How will characters who are above Lv 50 and below VR 16 receive their skill points for the vet levels between where they are now and VR 16?

For example, I have a character who is VR 16 and 400 champion points. My VR 6 character should get skill points for each VR level between 6 and 16. Since she is already past Lv 50, will she automatically get these skill points when she logs in?

Burning_Talons · April 2016

Im just posting here to get awesomes for being numbah 2

Shadesofkin · April 2016

So far it's extremely easy to understand the changes.

ng2084b14_ESO · April 2016

So one character after level 50 just have to earn 160 CP to level all other lvl 50s to max level?

Or the main character need to earn 500 CP cap?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

I'm not in yet but just curious how it actually looks visually for a 3 digit NPC level.

stevenbennett_ESO · April 2016

"Max Level" is referred to in the patch notes as CP 160 - which is where abilities, monsters, trials, armor, etc. scale up to. But you still get additional perks with more CP.

I'll echo Caff32's question -- I just briefly logged in to PTS with a VR2 character, and there were no new Skill Points added to that character. Is that a bug, or is there something I'm missing? (I expected the character to have another 13 skill points...)

Oh... and I *love* crafting bags. Was tickled pink to log in and see a completely empty bank...

MissBizz · April 2016

ng2084b14_ESO wrote: »

So one character after level 50 just have to earn 160 CP to level all other lvl 50s to max level?

Or the main character need to earn 500 CP cap?

@ng2084b14_ESO You need to earn 160 CP in total (can be on one character or multiple level 50 characters) and then all characters will be able to wear max level gear.

GaldorP · April 2016

How will characters with more than 200 Champion Points be able to get good XP with the following system in place:

Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:

Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

Will monsters anywhere scale to Champion Rank 200+?

ng2084b14_ESO · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

ng2084b14_ESO wrote: »

So one character after level 50 just have to earn 160 CP to level all other lvl 50s to max level?

Or the main character need to earn 500 CP cap?

@ng2084b14_ESO You need to earn 160 CP in total (can be on one character or multiple level 50 characters) and then all characters will be able to wear max level gear.

So 160 CP for max level (that is combined CP from fighter, mage, and thief) and still rest of the 341 CP is more helpful in improving?

LyonheartCo · April 2016

Will the mobs in the silver and gold zones all be the same level difficulty?

phaneub17_ESO · April 2016

Personally I think that your Champion Points should remain hidden from other players and simply display your max level as 50. There's a lot of scrutiny and judgment with the player base especially as you get deeper in the more challenging content.

Enodoc · April 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally I think that your Champion Points should remain hidden from other players and simply display your max level as 50. There's a lot of scrutiny and judgment with the player base especially as you get deeper in the more challenging content.

Agreed. The same should go for mobs; while it's nice to get an indication of difficulty, having mobs show a Champion number maintains an implied linearity that the removal of VRs was supposed to alleviate; that being, people will feel compelled to go through areas with 10 CP monsters before areas with 60 CP monsters solely because of the numbers, just as they do now with VR1 to VR6. All enemies should be displaying Level 50, and nothing more, to promote the idea that every 50+ activity (Cadwell, Wrothgar, Craglorn, Cyrodiil) is equal, and you don't have to do one (specifically Cadwell, being the VR1-10 areas) before the others (Craglorn, Wrothgar, Cyrodiil, Dungeons, Trials, being the VR11+ areas).

GaldorP wrote: »

How will characters with more than 200 Champion Points be able to get good XP with the following system in place:

Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:

Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

That really doesn't help the issue either. Because of this, you won't be able to do, for example, content in Wrothgar or the Gold zones before you do the content in the Silver zones, as you will be getting reduced XP when you go back to the Silver zones. This is another aspect of that implied linearity that the removal of VRs was supposed to address.

Runs · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]We will be awarding a one-time bonus of 2.5 Champion Points per Veteran Rank gained on your highest level character when you first log in when Dark Brotherhood is released!
Each Veteran Rank will grant 2.5 Champion Points, up to a maximum of 40 points at VR16.

My PTS characters did not receive this 40 point bonus

486 on Live

486 on PTS

MissBizz · April 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262008/old-vet-2-not-getting-skillpoints-and-attribute-points-from-removed-v3-v16#latest

As posted by another person in that thread. My low level VR (VR5 on Live) did not receive any skill points.

I also did not gain any extra CP (I have a VR16)

And for some reason my CP is reset on PTS. Will this happen when it goes to live?

In responce to @Enodoc it would also be greatly confusing NOT to have CP on the mobs though. They are still going the whole "if you're not a close enough level you won't get loot" thing... So people may be confused as to why they get loot from a level 50 mob in one place, but not the other.

Enodoc · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

In responce to @Enodoc it would also be greatly confusing NOT to have CP on the mobs though. They are still going the whole "if you're not a close enough level you won't get loot" thing... So people may be confused as to why they get loot from a level 50 mob in one place, but not the other.

Yeah, and that's a really bad thing too (in fact, that's worse); if that stays, the numbers would have to stay, but neither should be there. What has removal of VRs really achieved for those people who were against completing Cadwell's? With the change as it is now, you are still essentially forced to go through Cadwell's zones immediately if you want any benefit from them (otherwise you overlevel the XP); and you are still directed through them otherwise anyway because the numbers are telling you that you should do that before anything else. Even if CPs are account-wide, that subliminal message telling you that Silver comes before Gold and Cadwell comes before <other stuff> is still there, since 10 comes before 60 comes before 160.

What's more, you will never get full benefit from Cadwell's again, since you will only be within the appropriate XP band during your first playthrough of those zones (and not even during the first playthrough if you decide to go to Wrothgar with your first Level 50).

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

GaldorP wrote: »

How will characters with more than 200 Champion Points be able to get good XP with the following system in place:

Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:

Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

Will monsters anywhere scale to Champion Rank 200+?

This was my big....ZOS don't use CP for NPC levels cause now you have this problem.

Would it not have made more sense to just use
VR1-5 (NPC lvl 50-51)
VR6-10 (NPC lvl 52-53)
VR11-14 (NPC lvl 53-54)
VR15-16 (NPC lvl 54-56)

Now what they have is the requirement to rescale every CP change which is a lot of unnecessary work.
To me that's a better change and one that would seem to be clear and easy to understand and not penalize ppl like me who are not at my CP so now the catch up system has a new slow down mechanism on top of the incremental exp raise.

It doesn't make sense either cause now the VR issues continue but just now account based.

Enodoc · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This was my big....ZOS don't use CP for NPC levels cause now you have this problem.

Would it not have made more sense to just use
VR1-5 (NPC lvl 50-51)
VR6-10 (NPC lvl 52-53)
VR11-14 (NPC lvl 53-54)
VR15-16 (NPC lvl 54-56)

I would rather they did this over what they have done, but those numbers don't help the linearity issue. What you'd need is something like this:
Silver 1-5: NPC lvl 50-53
Gold 1-5: NPC lvl 52-55
Lower Crag: NPC lvl 50
Upper Crag: NPC lvl 53
Wrothgar: NPC lvl 50
Cyrodiil: NPC lvl 52
Trials: NPC lvl 55

JD2013 · April 2016

It's weird as heck seeing top level being 50 and stuff.

I'll post a longer amount of thoughts once I can play more tomorrow.

Ghostbane · April 2016

Is the CP cap raised in this patch?

Reorx_Holybeard · April 2016

Something strange regarding Champion Points...I had 489 CPs when I logged in but I gained the next 3 CPs basically in 3 fights in Wrothgar (Giants/Mammoths). After those 3 fast CPs it seemed to back to normal XP gain.

code65536 · April 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Something strange regarding Champion Points...I had 489 CPs when I logged in but I gained the next 3 CPs basically in 3 fights in Wrothgar (Giants/Mammoths). After those 3 fast CPs it seemed to back to normal XP gain.

When I logged in, it showed that I had accumulated 1.7M CP XP (and I need somewhere between 700-800K for a CP). So I had an overflowed bar, and earning just 1 XP caused that overflow to be processed, gaining me an instant 2 CP. Not entirely sure what the cause of that overflow is, but I have a theory: I think it might be the aggregation of the residual CP from all 4 of my VR toons. So if I have one toon that's made 500K towards the next CP and another character that's made 400K towards the next CP, then they'll combine into 900K.

Opux · April 2016

I'm disappointed that this basically amounted to renaming VR to CP, multiplying the number by 10, and then making it account-wide. The main problem people had with VR was the endless gear treadmill, and cool gear being out leveled and made unusable - this doesn't solve any of that. Crafting is trivialized because you absolutely don't want to invest in it until you can make and wear max level stuff.

Making VR account-wide was a step in the right direction, at least. If making progression horizontal instead of vertical is completely off the table, I think you could remedy this by making a way to "level-up" gear that is much cheaper than just making it from scratch.

Edit: A more in depth version of my feedback can be found here.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This was my big....ZOS don't use CP for NPC levels cause now you have this problem.

Would it not have made more sense to just use
VR1-5 (NPC lvl 50-51)
VR6-10 (NPC lvl 52-53)
VR11-14 (NPC lvl 53-54)
VR15-16 (NPC lvl 54-56)

I would rather they did this over what they have done, but those numbers don't help the linearity issue. What you'd need is something like this:
Silver 1-5: NPC lvl 50-53
Gold 1-5: NPC lvl 52-55
Lower Crag: NPC lvl 50
Upper Crag: NPC lvl 53
Wrothgar: NPC lvl 50
Cyrodiil: NPC lvl 52
Trials: NPC lvl 55

This works just fine too.
I don't know if they realize that what they have done....requires that they rebalance any 50-VR16 content with every CP change forever. Also, loot drops and tables and stuff have to all be reworked each time. Grouping tools now have to group a couple hundred numeric variances in player levels vs 5. So we saw 14 and 16 was an issue and now we go from vet to hundreds but the 1-49 game works in intervals of 5 to 6 player levels.

No idea why not to KISS.

I just really don't understand this logic.
Also....so when you get to 1000+ with name plates and titles, all that SCT all on the screen.....just doesn't seem well though out.
Tool tips and crafting text space issues. It was already an issue with just the vet symbol.

And how does a player figure out who they can kill cause CPs are actually progressive unless you specifically use them to E chance your dmg primarily.

All they did was to remove the whole purpose of the CP Passives and now it's required to place all PTS in very few spots to "level up" which isn't what ppl asked for. They did want an easier path but now it's progressively harder and more limiting visually and in use.

I just don't follow and even with more detail, this will not be something I agree with or support even tho I want VR gone. I still don't want VR back but this is worse.

Slurg · April 2016

1. What is the point of displaying CP 754, etc., on a player character when they are limited to assigning 501 right now?

2. I realized only after my harvesting was slow that my harvesting passive was missing because all of my CPs had been reset. I was slicing through 160 CP mobs like they were air and I didn't even have any CPs assigned. Are stamplars OP now or are mobs too easy?

3. I didn't get a CP bonus on my VR16 either. Is that because I already had over 160 (my gear all equipped fine) or did the assignment of extra points not work?

LyonheartCo · April 2016

My vr16 toon only has 88 CP. Will i de-level if i don't have 160 cp when this goes live?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2016

I don't like the idea of gear being attached to CPs. Just let endgame gear be endgame gear. The CP system augments your stats anyway.

No one wants to go through another level cap raise like the V14 to V16 raise. All new materials, regrinding all the monster helm sets, all the "endgame content" that was now out of date and stayed underleveled for 3 DLC cycles.

Elite gear vendor took 3 DLC cycles to update. Sanctum just got updated now. AA, Hel-ra, and DSA still aren't dropping endgame gear.

I would hate to see the CP cap raised again in the next DLC and then everyone has to regrind everything again with a whole new tier of super limited materials only available in the new DLC.

suddenly maelstrom becomes out of date like DSA for 3 more DLC cycles.
all the Tel Var gear in Imperial City is outdated
"No ETA" when asked when these things will get updated.

Not again. Not ever.

bhlegit · April 2016

no need to display actual cp amount for player name plate. either display 501, 160 or just level 50

Preyfar · April 2016

I think the changes are good, but kind of moot for the lower end and makes most gear for CP10-CP50 almost worthless except for the ultra-occasional player. It's entire possible to gain your first 10CP in an hour with Enlightenment, which is like skipping VR1. The XP costs on the lower end will make gaining CP exceedingly fast, which can make the Cadwell's Silver really easy to out level, especially with Enlightenment. I don't think it'd be an issue if everything scaled like VR16, but... add in Enlightenment, XP pots/scrolls, and I feel like people can can swiftly outlevel their gear in Silver/Gold all too fast.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

no need to display actual cp amount for player name plate. either display 501, 160 or just level 50

Just needs to be 50.

NBrookus · April 2016

I also did not see a CP bonus, and my CP was reset. The reset was fine, but it would be better if it were optional or I got a notification.

Otherwise... I honestly see no functional difference between VR + CP and 50 + CP. Bugs aside, should be a smooth transition for players.