Dawnbreaker of Smiting

bhlegit · April 2016

iv just seen this on the patch notes ' This passive ability now deals Physical Damage or Magic Damage, based on whether your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage is higher respectively.' for the templars aedric spear. Couldnt we have exactly this methos on the guild ultis?

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

We just view it differently. ,again I would rather see more diversity for a build within one skill. For instance, when running a Stam build the choice between the type of dawn breaker I like or as a MG the choice of the type of meteor I would use. It also makes more sense lore wise for the guilds to specialize in one area. I just prefer that style of diversity over splitting all the skills in half and saying you get this morph and you get that morph. Then you have to build around the morph type as opposed to having options as to which morph you would like.

While I agree with your view on diversity, this isn't an issue of options. This is more an issue of skill line purpose. Fighters Guild skill line is a counter undead/deadra skill line. You cannot cut magicka out and make it so that they cannot deal the extra damage to undead and deadra just to give stam a morph option no one will use (or rather most will rarely use, since Flawless gives a passive 5% boost to weapon damage). It is not right for the devs to make it so that magicka can no longer deal increased damage to undead and deadra while at the same time buffing stamina much more than the Mage Guild skill line buffs magicka --- and this is coming from someone who plays stamina toons. That is not how you balance a game.

bhlegit · April 2016

exactly^^

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

We just view it differently. ,again I would rather see more diversity for a build within one skill. For instance, when running a Stam build the choice between the type of dawn breaker I like or as a MG the choice of the type of meteor I would use. It also makes more sense lore wise for the guilds to specialize in one area. I just prefer that style of diversity over splitting all the skills in half and saying you get this morph and you get that morph. Then you have to build around the morph type as opposed to having options as to which morph you would like.

While I agree with your view on diversity, this isn't an issue of options. This is more an issue of skill line purpose. Fighters Guild skill line is a counter undead/deadra skill line. You cannot cut magicka out and make it so that they cannot deal the extra damage to undead and deadra just to give stam a morph option no one will use (or rather most will rarely use, since Flawless gives a passive 5% boost to weapon damage). It is not right for the devs to make it so that magicka can no longer deal increased damage to undead and deadra while at the same time buffing stamina much more than the Mage Guild skill line buffs magicka --- and this is coming from someone who plays stamina toons. That is not how you balance a game.

So perhaps move that passive to world skill line???

lassitershawn · April 2016

You took an incredibly useful skill away from magicka builds here and replaced it with one that most stamina builds still will not use (because Flawless Dawnbreaker provides the passive damage increase). Make one morph of Meteor do physical damage (name it Giant Asteroid or something), and keep Dawnbreaker of Smiting as magic damage. Provides more variety for both stamina and magicka, and can anyone say that is really a bad thing?

bowmanz607 · April 2016

lassitershawn wrote: »

You took an incredibly useful skill away from magicka builds here and replaced it with one that most stamina builds still will not use (because Flawless Dawnbreaker provides the passive damage increase). Make one morph of Meteor do physical damage (name it Giant Asteroid or something), and keep Dawnbreaker of Smiting as magic damage. Provides more variety for both stamina and magicka, and can anyone say that is really a bad thing?

I disagree. I have no problem getting weapon damage without dawnbreaker. I would prefer higher burst and dot damage combined with other aoe to dps zeros down.

Vangy · April 2016

Wow..... 90% of the morphs of class skill and guild skills in this game were magicka based. Even after these changes, most likely magicka still retains 70% or more of the class skill morphs.... They take away one little toy and you guys start whining... Come on guys. There are like tons of other magicka ults to choose from.... All stamina gets is incapacitating strike, DB, leap..... Is that too much? Sheesh.

The same reason as why whip dosent get a stam morph applies to DB. Flawless DB is PvE and DB of smiting is for PvP. Both should be stamina cos they are used by different groups of stam builds in different conditions.

susmitds · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

We just view it differently. ,again I would rather see more diversity for a build within one skill. For instance, when running a Stam build the choice between the type of dawn breaker I like or as a MG the choice of the type of meteor I would use. It also makes more sense lore wise for the guilds to specialize in one area. I just prefer that style of diversity over splitting all the skills in half and saying you get this morph and you get that morph. Then you have to build around the morph type as opposed to having options as to which morph you would like.

While I agree with your view on diversity, this isn't an issue of options. This is more an issue of skill line purpose. Fighters Guild skill line is a counter undead/deadra skill line. You cannot cut magicka out and make it so that they cannot deal the extra damage to undead and deadra just to give stam a morph option no one will use (or rather most will rarely use, since Flawless gives a passive 5% boost to weapon damage). It is not right for the devs to make it so that magicka can no longer deal increased damage to undead and deadra while at the same time buffing stamina much more than the Mage Guild skill line buffs magicka --- and this is coming from someone who plays stamina toons. That is not how you balance a game.

I think Magicka has way too options to choose from and much more flexible --- and this is coming from someone who plays magicka toons. So you don't need everything at once.

MaxwellC · April 2016

They need to make dawnbreaker of smiting a scaled ultimate which means that the highest resource is used to determine the damage it does.

code65536 · April 2016

Who the hell is going to use Smiting now?

Stamina users will pick Flawless because that slot bonus (affecting everything that you do) outweighs whatever extra damage the ultimate itself does.

And Magicka users would have no use for Smiting because now it hits like a wet noodle.

It's ridiculous. This isn't a buff to stam--it's making one of the morphs unviable and undesirable for anyone.

oibam · April 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

refuse to grow up is right. As it stands, with the new fg changes magicka players lose all bonus dmg to daedra and undead as it now adds weapon dmg per skill slotted. This cant be right?

stop crying and reroll to stam. we had to reroll to mag last dlc.

LeifErickson · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Who the hell is going to use Smiting now?

Stamina users will pick Flawless because that slot bonus (affecting everything that you do) outweighs whatever extra damage the ultimate itself does.

And Magicka users would have no use for Smiting because now it hits like a wet noodle.

It's ridiculous. This isn't a buff to stam--it's making one of the morphs unviable and undesirable for anyone.

Speak for yourself. I am a stam NB and plan to use Dawnbreaker of Smiting on my back bar with Incapacitating strike on my front bar. Both morphs have great uses for different stamina setups and just because you don't think this one will be good, doesn't mean that no one will use it.

susmitds · April 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Who the hell is going to use Smiting now?

Stamina users will pick Flawless because that slot bonus (affecting everything that you do) outweighs whatever extra damage the ultimate itself does.

And Magicka users would have no use for Smiting because now it hits like a wet noodle.

It's ridiculous. This isn't a buff to stam--it's making one of the morphs unviable and undesirable for anyone.

Speak for yourself. I am a stam NB and plan to use Dawnbreaker of Smiting on my back bar with Incapacitating strike on my front bar. Both morphs have great uses for different stamina setups and just because you don't think this one will be good, doesn't mean that no one will use it.

Exactly. I plan on running the same thing as Incapacitating Strike is giving me 2% crit chance with assassination skill line passive already.

Edziu · April 2016

oibam wrote: »

bhlegit wrote: »

refuse to grow up is right. As it stands, with the new fg changes magicka players lose all bonus dmg to daedra and undead as it now adds weapon dmg per skill slotted. This cant be right?

stop crying and reroll to stam. we had to reroll to mag last dlc.

ye, finnaly after this DB I will can back again to my main stamina from magica TG

and I'm guessing we will again reroll to magica in next patch after DB, just 1 patch i stamina, 2nd magica, 3rd stamina and 4th is again magica :d

luxfreak · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Why does everything turn into a magicka vs stamina debate?! This isn't one versus the other

I am glad they are giving stamina love (I play both stam and mag). However, FG is not a stamina line but a counter undead line. They need to make Smiting a magicka morph and they need to add spell damage to the revised Slayer passive. Otherwise magicka toons will lose all extra damage vs undead, deadra, and werewolves, and that effects not only PvP but PvE also as numerous dungeons and content is undead.

Have you even read the patch notes?? FG is completly revised, it is now a nearly complete stamina skill line, with little extras against undead and deadra. They Removed most of the effects that went against Undead and Deadra. If you want a cheap ultimate, go and use on of your class, each class has a cheap magika ult, except dks, dks have a cheap stamina ult, lol.
On a side nothe, i dont belive MagDKs wont ever use something beside there banner.
Back to my main point: Mage Guild was always a Magika skill tree and now, its fair that the stamina player get there own additinal FULL skilltree as well, instead of a half assed, good for both ressources, tree.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

We just view it differently. ,again I would rather see more diversity for a build within one skill. For instance, when running a Stam build the choice between the type of dawn breaker I like or as a MG the choice of the type of meteor I would use. It also makes more sense lore wise for the guilds to specialize in one area. I just prefer that style of diversity over splitting all the skills in half and saying you get this morph and you get that morph. Then you have to build around the morph type as opposed to having options as to which morph you would like.

While I agree with your view on diversity, this isn't an issue of options. This is more an issue of skill line purpose. Fighters Guild skill line is a counter undead/deadra skill line. You cannot cut magicka out and make it so that they cannot deal the extra damage to undead and deadra just to give stam a morph option no one will use (or rather most will rarely use, since Flawless gives a passive 5% boost to weapon damage). It is not right for the devs to make it so that magicka can no longer deal increased damage to undead and deadra while at the same time buffing stamina much more than the Mage Guild skill line buffs magicka --- and this is coming from someone who plays stamina toons. That is not how you balance a game.

So perhaps move that passive to world skill line???

That completely ruins what the FG is supposed to be...a guild dedicated to killing undead and deadra. I am pretty sure the lore junkies would scream foul if they removed any aspect of extra dmg to undead and deadra from FG and moved it elsewhere.

The devs had mentioned possibly adding physical ults to the weapon skill lines; maybe they did and I missed it. If they didn't, then they should. There is plenty way to get the build diversity and options without ruining what FG is supposed to be and cutting magicka out of the equation in terms of extra dmg to undead. They will genuinely suffer in terms of dungeons like vCoH, vCoA, vWGT, and vICP as well as in content like the IC. It is a really bad balance decision, simple as that.

I love the diversity for my stam toons, but I do not agree with that change at all.

Takes-No-Prisoner · April 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

I'll drink to that. I am excited for the new Fighters Guild changes.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · April 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

please make dawnbreaker of smiting magical dmg

nope, finally we have a stam base skill line tree. Magicka users have the magicka guild you know... or make a ice comet physical dmg based

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Wow..... 90% of the morphs of class skill and guild skills in this game were magicka based. Even after these changes, most likely magicka still retains 70% or more of the class skill morphs.... They take away one little toy and you guys start whining... Come on guys. There are like tons of other magicka ults to choose from.... All stamina gets is incapacitating strike, DB, leap..... Is that too much? Sheesh.

The same reason as why whip dosent get a stam morph applies to DB. Flawless DB is PvE and DB of smiting is for PvP. Both should be stamina cos they are used by different groups of stam builds in different conditions.

I am not biased towards magicka...these aren't tears from a magicka player.

These are concerns that the devs ruined a universal skill line that is about killing undead and deadra in an effort to buff stam. Now stam will get all the extra dmg vs undead and magicka will get none. That is not balance...period. Magicka will now get penalized in PvE content due to this change (in addition to PvP).

I want more options for my stamina toons. I want skills to scale appropriately. AI want my stam Sorc and stam DK to feel as tho I am playing a Sorc or DK and not a 2 hander or DW. I am all for diversity, and stam deff needed the love. But the changes to FG are not cool and are certainly not balanced. The only way to not completely fubar this, considering the list of planned changes, is to let Smiting scale to magic and have Slayer grand both weapon and spell dmg.

Again, if we stam still need more options, then push for the weapon skill ults.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · April 2016

zyk wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

bhlegit wrote: »

two morphs: flawless deals physical dmg
smiting deals amgical dmg

is that so hard to understand? both parties are happy

In that case, give every ultimate one morph a physical version and one a magical version.

Sure. As soon as Magicka builds have Magicka based Roll Dodge/Block/Sprint/Break-Free/Stealth.

Until that happens, @ZOS_GinaBruno please revert the change to Dawnbreaker of Smiting. This is a major PVP ultimate that Magicka builds are accustomed to having access to.

world's changing dude

Adapt or leave

contact.opiumb16_ESO · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

We just view it differently. ,again I would rather see more diversity for a build within one skill. For instance, when running a Stam build the choice between the type of dawn breaker I like or as a MG the choice of the type of meteor I would use. It also makes more sense lore wise for the guilds to specialize in one area. I just prefer that style of diversity over splitting all the skills in half and saying you get this morph and you get that morph. Then you have to build around the morph type as opposed to having options as to which morph you would like.

While I agree with your view on diversity, this isn't an issue of options. This is more an issue of skill line purpose. Fighters Guild skill line is a counter undead/deadra skill line. You cannot cut magicka out and make it so that they cannot deal the extra damage to undead and deadra just to give stam a morph option no one will use (or rather most will rarely use, since Flawless gives a passive 5% boost to weapon damage). It is not right for the devs to make it so that magicka can no longer deal increased damage to undead and deadra while at the same time buffing stamina much more than the Mage Guild skill line buffs magicka --- and this is coming from someone who plays stamina toons. That is not how you balance a game.

I prefer the knockback over the poor +5%WD (+6 with passive and DB slotted)

peak99 · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Magicka should not be disadvantaged in PvE as a means to buff stamina. It truly is as simple as keeping Smiting magic dmg and adding spell dmg to the Slayer passive.

THIS

Losing out on the FG passives is a huge nerf to magicka classes in pve; what so Stam classes can get pvpd buff? Thanks.

Also no db for mag classes in pvp sucks too. U r basically telling magelars, sorcs and, to a lesser extent, mag blades and dks "u have to lorebook grind for a decent damage dealing ulti for pvp".

Simple keep smiting as magic, and keep the spell damage in the passive.

code65536 · April 2016

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

bhlegit wrote: »

please make dawnbreaker of smiting magical dmg

nope, finally we have a stam base skill line tree. Magicka users have the magicka guild you know... or make a ice comet physical dmg based

Most stamina users already take Flawless over Smiting.

Most magicka users take Shooting Star over Ice Comet.

Give Smiting back to magicka users, and turn Ice Comet into Asteroid for the stamina crowd.

The current approach to "balance" is poorly thought-out and just swings the pendulum too far in the other direction, and before you know it, we'll have a patch to "rebalance" things for magicka. Better for them to get it correct now than to keep this back-and-forth nonsense.

flguy147ub17_ESO · April 2016

ManDraKE wrote: »

bhlegit wrote: »

two morphs: flawless deals physical dmg
smiting deals amgical dmg

is that so hard to understand? both parties are happy

then give me a morph of ice comet that deals physical damage.

I would be ok with that as well. It would help both stamina and magicka users.

bhlegit · April 2016

whatever you think, it is not right to take away magicka users' access to bonus dmg to daedra/undead which has been in the game since forever. all in a (half assed) effort to give something to stam users. Yeah you may be the one person who would take new smiting over flawless for the passive increase to wep dmg. And fyi i have rerolled stam chars and i love it, i still think that smiting should be magicka and flawless physical. If you want a physical meteor then have it. that is more balanced than the way it is now.. Even better make both meteor and dawnbreaker (either morph of either two) scale of which o f your stats is higher sd or wd. This is by far the best way, takes nothing away from anyone - except the fighters guild passive needs to add spell dmg as well as wep dmg. (edit especially considering there isnt one spell dmg related passive in the mages guild)

contact.opiumb16_ESO · April 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

whatever you think, it is not right to take away magicka users' access to bonus dmg to daedra/undead which has been in the game since forever. all in a (half assed) effort to give something to stam users. Yeah you may be the one person who would take new smiting over flawless for the passive increase to wep dmg. And fyi i have rerolled stam chars and i love it, i still think that smiting should be magicka and flawless physical. If you want a physical meteor then have it. that is more balanced than the way it is now.. Even better make both meteor and dawnbreaker (either morph of either two) scale of which o f your stats is higher sd or wd. This is by far the best way, takes nothing away from anyone - except the fighters guild passive needs to add spell dmg as well as wep dmg.

we together know it won't happen so...

BTW you do understand the new fighters guild philosophy tree is here :

"Slayer: Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon Damage by 1/2/3% for each Fighters Guild ability slotted at Ranks I/II/III respectively, instead of increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 3/6/9% against Undead and Daedra.

AND

"Skilled Tracker: Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases all damage dealt with Fighters Guild abilities by 20% against Undead, Daedra, and Werewolves. Fighters Guild abilities no longer innately have a bonus to Undead, Daedra, and Werewolves without this passive ability."

Mage Guild = magicka, fighters guild = stamina. Period (until a new change ^^)

bhlegit · April 2016

yeah i know thats how they want it. but its not right!

Ajaxduo · April 2016

It would seem any magicka related benefits were removed from the Fighters Guild skill line, therefore the direction the devs are headed Mage's Guild is for magicka and Fighter's Guild is for stamina. However some of us stam peasants will still need to use Ice Comet xD

edit: ah someone already said this, oh well echo! echo!

RebornV3x · April 2016

Should have kept in magicka dmg o well

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

luxfreak wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Why does everything turn into a magicka vs stamina debate?! This isn't one versus the other

I am glad they are giving stamina love (I play both stam and mag). However, FG is not a stamina line but a counter undead line. They need to make Smiting a magicka morph and they need to add spell damage to the revised Slayer passive. Otherwise magicka toons will lose all extra damage vs undead, deadra, and werewolves, and that effects not only PvP but PvE also as numerous dungeons and content is undead.

Have you even read the patch notes?? FG is completly revised, it is now a nearly complete stamina skill line, with little extras against undead and deadra. They Removed most of the effects that went against Undead and Deadra. If you want a cheap ultimate, go and use on of your class, each class has a cheap magika ult, except dks, dks have a cheap stamina ult, lol.
On a side nothe, i dont belive MagDKs wont ever use something beside there banner.
Back to my main point: Mage Guild was always a Magika skill tree and now, its fair that the stamina player get there own additinal FULL skilltree as well, instead of a half assed, good for both ressources, tree.

Yup, read the patch notes. From the patch notes:

Slayer: Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon Damage by 1/2/3% for each Fighters Guild ability slotted at Ranks I/II/III respectively, instead of increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 3/6/9% against Undead and Daedra.

Skilled Tracker: Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases all damage dealt with Fighters Guild abilities by 20% against Undead, Daedra, and Werewolves. Fighters Guild abilities no longer innately have a bonus to Undead, Daedra, and Werewolves without this passive ability.

So, Slayer now gives you quite a bit more wpn dmg and Skilled Tracker gives you 20% extra dmg vs undead and deadra. So, your comment which I bolded is inaccurate. You will end up doing even more damage than before to undead and deadra.

Additionally, I am not making my points as a magicka player. I play just as much stamina as I do magicka. This game is not magicka vs stamina. My opinions are unbiased...and that is the only way to get balance in the game.