THE PUG CHECKLIST (READ THIS BEFORE USING THE VET DUNGEON FINDER).

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Most of these are fine, but my night blade can tank or DPS...so going to be dual lighting it. You kick me, you lose a smooth run *Shrugs*

I never kick people. I think that's wrong.. As I join around 8 pug's a day you do see it from the random leader. I have left some but that's after trying and a message to apologize. I have to sleep sometime. Haha. I was in a pug today during Selene's Web that was particularly long as I was the tank, we were in there for an hour. That's after I told dps to at least put arrow barrage on his bar.

It was exhausting but I stuck it out for that undaunted vr14 helm for my vr16 tank... He really needed it. Hahaha.

Seriously though, if people were to follow this, less people would be getting kicked. More people would want to group with each other again. My opinion anyway.

tinythinker · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

5. Have some patience

I think many ESO veterans have walked into a dungeon and watched a random team take 5 mins and one death to take out the first group of enemies (tank lyf) and thought... "wow, this is going to be a rough three and a half thousand years". But they'll never get better if someone doesn't try and help them. Send them a message, ask them to change around their bar. Some people will respond nicely. Others will tell you how your mother feels about you (runs away crying) and that's okay.. because projection is a thing.

Keep in mind even the decent players on ESO have their bad days where they are trying to dodge roll out of a circle of death and that indominable crevice in the ground blocked their escape. Give people a chance before leaving the group.

Most important part, should be first and last on the list

I mean, I've played games where I read a guide for a group run, tried to do all the mechanics right, it looked like it was all done exactly right, and yet somehow I die/the party wipes. This can be a huge confidence drain on many players who are new to a game or inexperienced in group dungeons, and sometimes even telling people what to do, if done in a belittling or commanding way, can make it worse. So, if you are an experienced player who is joining a random queue, bring your patience and friendliness as well as any advice. Otherwise, despite your skill, you are adding to the problem.

(And while you meant pug in its original meaning for the forum thread title, it has a negative connotation after years of being used as an insult and may look like your thread is nothing but a high-handed lecture to someone scrolling by. Not saying it is, but, many people you might hope will read this might see it that way and not click. Nothing wrong with just using the part of the title in parentheses.)

DocFrost72 · April 2016

@mistermutiny89

Perhaps I should have specified "you" being general, my bad there ☺

What I am saying is that my character can legitimately get in a set of gear for dps, or a set of gear for tanking, and be on his merry way accomplishing all she needs to. Asking those that can do 2 or 3 roles not to flag the others won't really do much, as the ones that listen aren't the issue.

Everything else is pretty spot on, but as for the pick one, I think that is better reserved for once the group is made. Then, most defonately, pick ONE role or you become at best half as effective.

Svalinn · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

- Once again, at least 18k health in vet dungeons, healers can't heal one shots. (Why not Zenimax? WHYYYY??!)

I'm positive everyone can heal those... it's called resurrecting a player :P

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Nice article.

Just an inevitable comment on the tank stamina thing... I use a glyph of absorb stamina on my main weapon and some well-placed champion points to boost my stamina recovery with heavy attacks. I get that tanks are supposed to be blocking "most of the time", but that doesn't mean you have to completely dependent on other peoples skill sets. And there's usually plenty of time in between blocking to leech some stamina back, buff, debuff etc.

But yes... good article for the intended audience, and not critical know-it-alls like me.

Thank you! and of course, I'm too much of a wimp to risk heavy attacks whilst tanking, but thanks to swallow soul being so cheap and siphoning attacks I just spam that out of block to self heal and get back stam. But I'm defs more a dps guy. Tanking is not my forte but I'd like to think I know the role. haha Sort of.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Please consider this is your personal preference and now that its on the forums...but it differs from the ZOS articles and roles.

I would consider this more of an ideal situation based on a particular experience you want so therefore, I'd say you should never use the PUG an only use manual groups. Then queue when full

Another monstrously opposed reply from Smurf, good to know you haven't changed, and that you aren't on EU haha.

As I'm glad ur on PC and EU.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

- Once again, at least 18k health in vet dungeons, healers can't heal one shots. (Why not Zenimax? WHYYYY??!)

I'm positive everyone can heal those... it's called resurrecting a player :P

TOO OP PLZ NERF! hahaha

@tinythinker

That's a real shame, just shows how unaware I am of internet discourses haha. I always found "Pug" quite endearing because my best mate had a pug named Fran haha, although she was a bit of a psycho.

But yes, patience is so important, even I've been victim to a swift kick at the beginning of a vet dungeon, I was the healer and I breath of life'd about 0.5 seconds too late and the two dps's with flawless conquerer under their name kicked me immediately. I felt a little worthless, as fate would have it I was re-grouped with them and we ran the rest without a problem. Accidents happen people, it's okay! haha

Shadesofkin · April 2016

There are definite exceptions to these rules, but they are hard fast rules for the guys who don't spend all their time working out the intricacies of their specific build or set up. I laughed and enjoyed this post.

Whatzituyah · April 2016

Im sorry can't absorb all this info my head feels like its going to explode. I just recently figured out Argonians make good tanks and I was like wha?

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Im sorry can't absorb all this info my head feels like its going to explode. I just recently figured out Argonians make good tanks and I was like wha?

HAHAHAH! YES! I was running my sap tank today and thought to myself as I drank a potion, "wow, I could be getting more magicka out of this if this character was an argonian". If race change is a thing, I may actually have an Argonian next patch?? What tha hulll??!!!

Miszou · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Most of these are fine, but my night blade can tank or DPS...so going to be dual lighting it. You kick me, you lose a smooth run *Shrugs*

I never kick people. I think that's wrong.. As I join around 8 pug's a day you do see it from the random leader. I have left some but that's after trying and a message to apologize. I have to sleep sometime. Haha. I was in a pug today during Selene's Web that was particularly long as I was the tank, we were in there for an hour. That's after I told dps to at least put arrow barrage on his bar.

It was exhausting but I stuck it out for that undaunted vr14 helm for my vr16 tank... He really needed it. Hahaha.

Seriously though, if people were to follow this, less people would be getting kicked. More people would want to group with each other again. My opinion anyway.

Yeah, exactly.

As a tank, I think that kicking DPS is particularly bad. IDGAF if I get kicked (not that it happens, I'm just saying), but to boot someone back to an hour long queue is just awful behavior.

I think everyone has these horror stories of various players, but it really is satisfying when you can help some new people through a dungeon for their first time. I'm not an epic player by any means but I'll try as hard as I can to make the dungeon work.

In fact, just last night some guy rage quit and called everyone scrubs after the group failed twice at Gamyne Bandu, arguably the hardest boss in that dungeon. I see him 2 minutes later, asking in regional chat for a tank. I lol'd and joined another group with 2 DPS that have never done Vet Nereineth before and we completed it for the Gold. They were both really happy.

tinythinker · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

- Once again, at least 18k health in vet dungeons, healers can't heal one shots. (Why not Zenimax? WHYYYY??!)

I'm positive everyone can heal those... it's called resurrecting a player :P

TOO OP PLZ NERF! hahaha

@tinythinker

That's a real shame, just shows how unaware I am of internet discourses haha. I always found "Pug" quite endearing because my best mate had a pug named Fran haha, although she was a bit of a psycho. But yes, patience is so important, even I've been victim to a swift kick at the beginning of a vet dungeon, I was the healer and I breath of life'd about 0.5 seconds too late and the two dps's with flawless conquerer under their name kicked me immediately. I felt a little worthless, as fate would have it I was re-grouped with them and we ran the rest without a problem. Accidents happen people, it's okay! haha

Yeah it is a shame, and I didn't think you meant the insult version of the term, but pug to many people has become the same as calling a person a scrub, a dumb noob, etc. Not your fault, just something that occurred to me when I saw the thread the first time.

But more important than that unfortunate use of a word is whether people are in a group to show off or to be part of the group. The people who want to show off can really ruin a group. They aren't there to be part of a group, to help others and make sure everyone finds a way to succeed together, they just want the XP, the achievement, the gear, and to act like a superstar. I know when someone like that is in my group it is going to be way less fun.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

Miszou wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Most of these are fine, but my night blade can tank or DPS...so going to be dual lighting it. You kick me, you lose a smooth run *Shrugs*

I never kick people. I think that's wrong.. As I join around 8 pug's a day you do see it from the random leader. I have left some but that's after trying and a message to apologize. I have to sleep sometime. Haha. I was in a pug today during Selene's Web that was particularly long as I was the tank, we were in there for an hour. That's after I told dps to at least put arrow barrage on his bar.

It was exhausting but I stuck it out for that undaunted vr14 helm for my vr16 tank... He really needed it. Hahaha.

Seriously though, if people were to follow this, less people would be getting kicked. More people would want to group with each other again. My opinion anyway.

Yeah, exactly.

As a tank, I think that kicking DPS is particularly bad. IDGAF if I get kicked (not that it happens, I'm just saying), but to boot someone back to an hour long queue is just awful behavior.

I think everyone has these horror stories of various players, but it really is satisfying when you can help some new people through a dungeon for their first time. I'm not an epic player by any means but I'll try as hard as I can to make the dungeon work.

In fact, just last night some guy rage quit and called everyone scrubs after the group failed twice at Gamyne Bandu, arguably the hardest boss in that dungeon. I see him 2 minutes later, asking in regional chat for a tank. I lol'd and joined another group with 2 DPS that have never done Vet Nereineth before and we completed it for the Gold. They were both really happy.

If I am lead will always kick someone who puts himself as all three roles but is likely a poorly outfitted DPS. I don't want to carry some scrub who literally just took a spot from a tank or healer who I might have actually gotten along with and had fun with. That might be mean, but it's my time he's wasting and that slot could have gone to someone who maybe was a potential guild-mate in waiting or became my friend afterwards.

Miszou · April 2016

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Im sorry can't absorb all this info my head feels like its going to explode. I just recently figured out Argonians make good tanks and I was like wha?

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

HAHAHAH! YES! I was running my sap tank today and thought to myself as I drank a potion, "wow, I could be getting more magicka out of this if this character was an argonian". If race change is a thing, I may actually have an Argonian next patch?? What tha hulll??!!!

Sshhh! Be quiet or everyone will want one...

ssewallb14_ESO · April 2016

Two things -

There's nothing wrong with selecting more than one group role if you can legitimately fulfill more than one roll, as many can. Just ask what their setup is for the role they've been selected as if they're suspect, but please don't encourage selecting only a single group role as some kind of "rule."

Also those tank stats are overkill for anything but IC dungeons or trials. My dungeon pug setup has 30k/29k resistance with 24k health, I do fine, even with bad dps or heals, which is what I seem to get 80% of the time.

Other than that decent advice.

Mojmir · April 2016

When I did pugs(not anymore) I never kicked because I purposely never lead.if things went south I'd usually bow out graciously, no harm no foul.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

When I did pugs(not anymore) I never kicked because I purposely never lead.if things went south I'd usually bow out graciously, no harm no foul.

Precisely @Mojmir , on my third dungeon ready vr 16 character run of Nerien'eth for the day (on the weekend) the group got to Nerien'eth and both dps had no food, and only one had a mic, I had food to give him but he said he didn't need it so the skull attack would one shot him every time, after seven wipes I had to leave, I apologised over the mic and left. That's all you can do. Some people don't want to be helped.

Next group were much better players than I was and ploughed through it, then when I moved to tank it was them again... Turns out they were farming the dungeon, we did around 10 runs together, sometimes just 3 manning it with my 10k dps sap tank haha. They want to farm Skoria tonight... I'm a little worried I won't be good enough hahaha. Okay, I'm scared.. I think they are just using me for my off heals, taunt and warhorn to be honest.

You have your good and your bad runs let's just hope some people unprepared come across this thread and make some friends after a job well done.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Nice article.

Just an inevitable comment on the tank stamina thing... I use a glyph of absorb stamina on my main weapon and some well-placed champion points to boost my stamina recovery with heavy attacks. I get that tanks are supposed to be blocking "most of the time", but that doesn't mean you have to completely dependent on other peoples skill sets. And there's usually plenty of time in between blocking to leech some stamina back, buff, debuff etc.

But yes... good article for the intended audience, and not critical know-it-alls like me.

Thank you! and of course, I'm too much of a wimp to risk heavy attacks whilst tanking, but thanks to swallow soul being so cheap and siphoning attacks I just spam that out of block to self heal and get back stam. But I'm defs more a dps guy. Tanking is not my forte but I'd like to think I know the role. haha Sort of.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Please consider this is your personal preference and now that its on the forums...but it differs from the ZOS articles and roles.

I would consider this more of an ideal situation based on a particular experience you want so therefore, I'd say you should never use the PUG an only use manual groups. Then queue when full

Another monstrously opposed reply from Smurf, good to know you haven't changed, and that you aren't on EU haha.

As I'm glad ur on PC and EU.

Another overtly incorrect deduction from Smurf. Feel free to use the "full site" version on your phone to read player signatures. I find your signature with your ideas on a new levelling and gear system particularly amusing and further proof of your short sightedness when it comes to this game's direction a little saddening, but the poll already underlined that. It's always a blast with you smurf. Keep on, keeping on!

notimetocare · April 2016

Steps unclear, my bits are now stuck in my zipper. Im a hybrid dps, help!

Vangy · April 2016

You can type a million lists onto the forums but the thing is... most of the people who need these guides arent even on the forums so.... GG.

Oh_Skrivva · April 2016

I'm glad you made this. I'm the type that is to nice to leave a group (maybe I'm to nice) but I literally just ran vEH with a pug using the lfg (I only do this one time per day for the 100k xp bonus and rewards) about 20 mins ago. I was healing (Templar) the run. The so called tank (sorc) who was v12 had only 22k health.find out he has no taunt on bar. The dps was 2 sorcs one was v16 other v8. I figured the v16 would atleast know dungeon but he did not. Worst of all both dps was using hard cast frags and back bar weapon resto to gain magic back cause of course you'll kill your magic with hard casting frags. So threw a taint on my bar and had to heal/tank/dps the run. Idk how we made it but we cleared. Took about a little over hour. I need to stop being so nice......

Mojmir · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

When I did pugs(not anymore) I never kicked because I purposely never lead.if things went south I'd usually bow out graciously, no harm no foul.

Precisely @Mojmir , on my third dungeon ready vr 16 character run of Nerien'eth for the day (on the weekend) the group got to Nerien'eth and both dps had no food, and only one had a mic, I had food to give him but he said he didn't need it so the skull attack would one shot him every time, after seven wipes I had to leave, I apologised over the mic and left. That's all you can do. Some people don't want to be helped.

Next group were much better players than I was and ploughed through it, then when I moved to tank it was them again... Turns out they were farming the dungeon, we did around 10 runs together, sometimes just 3 manning it with my 10k dps sap tank haha. They want to farm Skoria tonight... I'm a little worried I won't be good enough hahaha. Okay, I'm scared.. I think they are just using me for my off heals, taunt and warhorn to be honest.

You have your good and your bad runs let's just hope some people unprepared come across this thread and make some friends after a job well done.

my suggestion is take the skoria run, you found a good tight group even if its just farming. this just means they know exactly what to do and its streamlined,add them to your friend list and reap the whirlwind. i found one of the best healers this way and joined the guild im in now,which has been the core of what i know today.

Mojmir · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

You can type a million lists onto the forums but the thing is... most of the people who need these guides arent even on the forums so.... GG.

most of this stuff i knew already,and will be passed on to others. if you can, i suggest others do the same.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

My checklist for using group finder:
1- Don't have high expectation.
2- Am I mad today? If not, queue for vet. If I've had enough for today, only queue normal.
3- Try the best you can, but if you can't, drop group and shrug it away (really help if you do #1 first)

Lenikus · April 2016

I'm one angry and definitely-less-than-polite pug crown and i approve of this message.

Necrelios · April 2016

Bossdonut wrote: »

The kind of people running into walls and doing 5 dps probably don't even read the forums

Well actually, yes we do

.

NativeJoe · April 2016

When I join the Group finder what am I looking for? A challenge!
You wanna stand in red? challenge accepted!
You want to heal just yourself? Challenge accepted!
You wanna aggro everything in the dungeon? Challenge accepted! I shall not be killed by the likes of you!
You wanna go afk! SPLENDID! Challenge accepted!

And through this I shall gain more Adoring fans!

<<<<chat log lol

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

When I join the Group finder what am I looking for? A challenge!
You wanna stand in red? challenge accepted!
You want to heal just yourself? Challenge accepted!
You wanna aggro everything in the dungeon? Challenge accepted! I shall not be killed by the likes of you!
You wanna go afk! SPLENDID! Challenge accepted!

And through this I shall gain more Adoring fans!

<<<<chat log lol

*Kowtows in admiration!*

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Nice article.

Just an inevitable comment on the tank stamina thing... I use a glyph of absorb stamina on my main weapon and some well-placed champion points to boost my stamina recovery with heavy attacks. I get that tanks are supposed to be blocking "most of the time", but that doesn't mean you have to completely dependent on other peoples skill sets. And there's usually plenty of time in between blocking to leech some stamina back, buff, debuff etc.

But yes... good article for the intended audience, and not critical know-it-alls like me.

Thank you! and of course, I'm too much of a wimp to risk heavy attacks whilst tanking, but thanks to swallow soul being so cheap and siphoning attacks I just spam that out of block to self heal and get back stam. But I'm defs more a dps guy. Tanking is not my forte but I'd like to think I know the role. haha Sort of.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Please consider this is your personal preference and now that its on the forums...but it differs from the ZOS articles and roles.

I would consider this more of an ideal situation based on a particular experience you want so therefore, I'd say you should never use the PUG an only use manual groups. Then queue when full

Another monstrously opposed reply from Smurf, good to know you haven't changed, and that you aren't on EU haha.

As I'm glad ur on PC and EU.

Another overtly incorrect deduction from Smurf. Feel free to use the "full site" version on your phone to read player signatures. I find your signature with your ideas on a new levelling and gear system particularly amusing and further proof of your short sightedness when it comes to this game's direction a little saddening, but the poll already underlined that. It's always a blast with you smurf. Keep on, keeping on!

I see your sig say Xbox EU but my comment was as off base as your OP.
See there are concepts and expectations that go with roles and MMORPG games but the tone of your post comes off as play this way or gtfo.

To me that's crazy and it also doesn't align with the companies game guide so while this is your perspective and some others agree....I've found that taking and holding this perspective isn't good for the social interactions or enjoying gameplay long term as the circle that holds this mindset is very small in comparison to the vast amount of players who successfully run dungeons in PUGs each night.
Mdiff strokes for diff folks but realize I have changed but perhaps you have not which is why you have this perspective or opinion about me.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Nice article.

Just an inevitable comment on the tank stamina thing... I use a glyph of absorb stamina on my main weapon and some well-placed champion points to boost my stamina recovery with heavy attacks. I get that tanks are supposed to be blocking "most of the time", but that doesn't mean you have to completely dependent on other peoples skill sets. And there's usually plenty of time in between blocking to leech some stamina back, buff, debuff etc.

But yes... good article for the intended audience, and not critical know-it-alls like me.

Thank you! and of course, I'm too much of a wimp to risk heavy attacks whilst tanking, but thanks to swallow soul being so cheap and siphoning attacks I just spam that out of block to self heal and get back stam. But I'm defs more a dps guy. Tanking is not my forte but I'd like to think I know the role. haha Sort of.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Please consider this is your personal preference and now that its on the forums...but it differs from the ZOS articles and roles.

I would consider this more of an ideal situation based on a particular experience you want so therefore, I'd say you should never use the PUG an only use manual groups. Then queue when full

Another monstrously opposed reply from Smurf, good to know you haven't changed, and that you aren't on EU haha.

As I'm glad ur on PC and EU.

Another overtly incorrect deduction from Smurf. Feel free to use the "full site" version on your phone to read player signatures. I find your signature with your ideas on a new levelling and gear system particularly amusing and further proof of your short sightedness when it comes to this game's direction a little saddening, but the poll already underlined that. It's always a blast with you smurf. Keep on, keeping on!

I see your sig say Xbox EU but my comment was as off base as your OP.
See there are concepts and expectations that go with roles and MMORPG games but the tone of your post comes off as play this way or gtfo.

To me that's crazy and it also doesn't align with the companies game guide so while this is your perspective and some others agree....I've found that taking and holding this perspective isn't good for the social interactions or enjoying gameplay long term as the circle that holds this mindset is very small in comparison to the vast amount of players who successfully run dungeons in PUGs each night.
Mdiff strokes for diff folks but realize I have changed but perhaps you have not which is why you have this perspective or opinion about me.

» show previous quotes

Some are already finding my guide helpful. Some find it offensive. As stated in the thread. It's not a build guide, it's a role guide. If your tank can't taunt, you are not a tank. If your healer does nothing but heal, you aren't an effective healer. If your dps spams wrecking blow till kingdom come without any dots or aoes, you are not an effective dps. These are FACTS. Yes? Something you rarely dip your toes in.

You live in this world where you believe you're fighting for employee of the month. But you aren't an employee. You're a fan, with a passion that may match mine for the game, but it's twisted and deluded. And that's a shame. We both read each other's statements poorly but in this instance I stick by the fact that these are really decent guidelines. I'm in sometimes eight pugs a day. I've seen a lot and this guide could help many.

This is not an attack on the pug community, I'm endeavoring to better it. You won't see that though... If I say the sky is blue, you'll say it's red. That's you. You haven't changed.

Trashkan · April 2016

Are you guys for real? If you are that into serious PVE you shouldn't use the random grouping tool. I don't mind finding low levels with little experience it makes those dundeons worth running again. Let's be honest most dungeons can be soloed with the right set up. By the way I always have tank/dps checked. I tank all dundeons with my light armor dk including VICP and VWGT.