Dungeon finder= DPS Finder

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

This ^

hamburgerler76 · April 2016

I hope ZoS are watching this thread and Realize and acknowledge this is a problem for all but those who do exactly what this thread is about! All we want is a fix or some time type of reason or negative effect that will deter people from wanting to do this.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

I hope ZoS are watching this thread and Realize and acknowledge this is a problem for all but those who do exactly what this thread is about! All we want is a fix or some time type of reason or negative effect that will deter people from wanting to do this.

Yeah for starters make the queue time shorter for DPS for one. Then maybe we won't have to queue as other roles who get in faster.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Maddux wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

You don't need a tank for most of the easy veteran dungeons. You absolutely don't need a tank for normal dungeons. The only ones I'd appreciate a tank in is vCoA, vICP, and sometimes vWGT. Of course not to say I don't want tanks in dungeons. I'll take one in Darkshade even, I'm just saying it's easy to complete most dungeons without one. You never know maybe that DPS that q'd as a tank could be one badass player. Why don't you try giving people chances first before kicking them?

You can run most of the Dungeons without a real Tank IF the Group is good enough but most random Groups are not.
Do you know who has all the Aggro if i Heal with my NB, spamming Sap Essence, Refreshing Path, Rapid Regeneration and Healing Ward? Its me! Not the "let us run without Tank"- 10k AoE DD that qeued as a Tank or the other 2 DDs. Its me!
And im sick of Tanking everything in Light Armor and die instant if i do just a little Mistake or get bashed/stuned, while the DDs are not even close to get the Attention of an Add.
I do more DPS Singletarget and AoE as most of the PUGs while i Heal, causing me to have all the Aggro and thats the Reason why i instant leave the Group if they wanna run without a Tank or the Tank cant keep the Aggro.

If the Group wanna run without a Tank, why not run without a Healer to? I can switch from Sap Essence and Funnel Health to Impulse and Force Pulse, slot Blur and Shadow Cloak too and watch the Group die
As someone quoted above, everyone is able to keep himself alive for a while. Why you need my Healing?

Sometimes we don't need heals either depending on the groups. If the healer wants to DPS he can switch to DPS if he wants to. Shadow Cloak is not ideal in pve even as a DPS role. Sap Essence is pretty much necessary DPS, so most Mageblades use Sap Essence anyways for DPS.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

This is my solution. One that can't be trolled like the "rating" idea, and won't leave a bad taste in newbies mouth like the "kick every one that I judged that not worthy enough to run a dungeon with me and should be ban from using group finder and even from the game" idea.

hamburgerler76 · April 2016

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

i dont think it has anything to do with the group finder i think it works great besides that you can lie about your role but i think its more that being a dedicated healer/tank has no reward in this game if your a dps great you can do quest/pvp/arena all content is open to you but as say a tank you cant do to much damg as all your stats are in health and so they ar forced to switch just to do quest and any decent solo end game content so there are less witch makes them harder to find with group finder. so tanks get grouped faster.

Guppet · April 2016

To anyone saying it's ok, answer me this. Say 2 dps queue properly as dps, say it takes them half an hour to get a group and when they do, the tank is actually DPS and the healer is also DPS. is it fair that the honest dps will have to queue again?

No, no it's not. Until there is an actual punishment for abusing th system, honest players are the ones who suffer and will be the ones who give up, leaving a pool of players that will cheat other players to further their own goals. I dont want to play with what we will be left with.

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

The overall issue, is that not many peopl want the responsibility of healing or tanking. Maybe they can elliviate that slightly, by increasing group size.

They can also make the roles more fun to play. Anyone who has PVP tanked in SWTOR has seen it can work well in PVP.

If there are always more dps than healers, you have to queue longer and accept that. If customer services has a queue, you can't phone new business and expect them to perform customer services for you. The have the queue appropriate for the role your wiling to play.

Shorter tank and heal queues are a reward for being willing to do a more responsible role, always have been in every MMO ever.

Frenkthevile · April 2016

Guess why, tanks are useless and unfunny to play since stamina nerf and turbo-OP-Dps-sets introduced with DLCs.

Maddux · April 2016

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

Everyone of my Chars has Gear and Skills to Tank or Heal if i didnt find a Group as a DD. It sucks if you wanna do the Daily as a DD but the only Way to find a Group is doing the Heal or Tank Job.
This isnt WoW where you stick to the DD Role as a Hunter, Mage, or whatever and it is your own Fault if you are to lazy to pick some decent Tank or Heal Skills and Gear to get a Group if no DDs are needed.
My Magica NB has all Skills needed to run as DD or Heal, 3 Craftinglines skilled for the Dailys and still enough Skillpoints to play as a Tank if i want to. Whats your Excuse for just picking PewPew Skills?

Nogawd · April 2016

As a healer, in MOST dungeons, I would rather take 3 good dps over a traditional setup. I have burned through the dungeons much faster. All the silvers, most gold, even CoA, Darkshade, much easier with just dps.

My experience anyway.

Ashtaris · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

There can be absolutely no debate about that point. If you can't taunt, you're not a tank. End of story. It has always been a complete non-negotiable requirement, and a taunt has always been available for any player of any level as it's the first skill in the sword & shield skill line. The entire role of a tank is to hold aggro. The only way to ensure you do that is with a taunt.

Sorry @UrQuan but I think you're too extreme here (and "that's how it is, end of story" is no argument, it's just spamming your opinion... it's not a "definition" either).
As far as I know the role of a tank is to attract and survive incoming damage so that players doing outgoing damage can focus on that instead of their own survival.
Of course a taunt is the most efficient way to do it - but not the only one. Doing more damage than other players will also attract the mobs to me. That's how I do it in easy PUG/GF dungeons with lowbie players. They pull 5-6K, I pull 12K, the boss comes to me, I block/kite/shield/whatever, until my DPS becomes lower than theirs, then I loose aggro, and I start hitting again, the mob comes back to me, and so on.
I call that "tanking", too.

If that's your definition of a tank, then I think I'll stop being one. I always thought the idea of a tank was not only someone who could take damage, but also someone who can provide good utility to the group. Someone who uses Igneous weapons to provide a 20% damage boost, uses chains to bring in the healers into a nice ball and then roots them with Talons so the DPS can mow them down, someone who uses Igenous Shields to help keep the glass cannons alive, etc. I would hope that anyone who becomes a tank (DK, Templar, etc.) would provde more utility to the group than just being a meat bag.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

This will be troll mercilessly. What if 2 trolls friends queue together, they do a pathetic job fulfilling their roles, and the other 2 "dare" to complain about them? They would check the "no" box together and suddenly the guys who actually DO their job and carry the group are banned for queuing as that role for 24 hours. Unfortunately, that role is also the only role he/she can do. So they will have to: 1- not using group finder for 24 hours, or 2- queue as a role that they CAN'T do.

Sorry but your idea just backfire completely, punish good players and push more people to FAKE their role just to get into the queue.

DocFrost72 · April 2016

Ironically one of the best solutions would be to build a hybrid. When I queue on my magic builds, I have a healing set and a dps set. When I queue on my stam builds, got some plate taking up space.

So maybe, just maybe, being more flexible will help mitigate these issues when they do pop up. I've rarely noticed those selecting a wrong role (maybe like 1/10 times) and it is usually someone who queued as a tank, meaning I just ask them if they want me to tank.

It's not about rewarding "cheating the system", it's about teaching the new. One of the guys that had the tank role selected? He had bow and 2H. After we finished, I asked him if he knew what taunting was in the game. He admitted he didn't. So, I taught him and told him where to find the two natural taunts.

A week later he's in my group again with a badass setup, and we rolled through easy.

Guppet · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

This will be troll mercilessly. What if 2 trolls friends queue together, they do a pathetic job fulfilling their roles, and the other 2 "dare" to complain about them? They would check the "no" box together and suddenly the guys who actually DO their job and carry the group are banned for queuing as that role for 24 hours. Unfortunately, that role is also the only role he/she can do. So they will have to: 1- not using group finder for 24 hours, or 2- queue as a role that they CAN'T do.

Sorry but your idea just backfire completely, punish good players and push more people to FAKE their role just to get into the queue.

Then maybe split the dungeons so some are for 3 dps and a healer, while some are for 2 dps one healer and one tank. Then it's 5 dps to one tank and 2 healers. Queues would be quicker for dps, hopefully stoping those lying about the role they will play. Heck if they did two thirds of dungeons being for the 3 dps one healer group, it would be 8 dps per tank.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Maddux wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

Everyone of my Chars has Gear and Skills to Tank or Heal if i didnt find a Group as a DD. It sucks if you wanna do the Daily as a DD but the only Way to find a Group is doing the Heal or Tank Job.
This isnt WoW where you stick to the DD Role as a Hunter, Mage, or whatever and it is your own Fault if you are to lazy to pick some decent Tank or Heal Skills and Gear to get a Group if no DDs are needed.
My Magica NB has all Skills needed to run as DD or Heal, 3 Craftinglines skilled for the Dailys and still enough Skillpoints to play as a Tank if i want to. Whats your Excuse for just picking PewPew Skills?

I am actually fine if we do dungeons with no tank or healer if the DPS can all self sustain. It's been done before and it's not that hard. And what makes you think that just because I only want to play as DPS makes me lazy or some excuse? I don't care to play other roles aside from DPS in this game and that doesn't make me lazy. The other roles just don't appeal to me.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

This will be troll mercilessly. What if 2 trolls friends queue together, they do a pathetic job fulfilling their roles, and the other 2 "dare" to complain about them? They would check the "no" box together and suddenly the guys who actually DO their job and carry the group are banned for queuing as that role for 24 hours. Unfortunately, that role is also the only role he/she can do. So they will have to: 1- not using group finder for 24 hours, or 2- queue as a role that they CAN'T do.

Sorry but your idea just backfire completely, punish good players and push more people to FAKE their role just to get into the queue.

Then maybe split the dungeons so some are for 3 dps and a healer, while some are for 2 dps one healer and one tank. Then it's 5 dps to one tank and 2 healers. Queues would be quicker for dps, hopefully stoping those lying about the role they will play. Heck if they did two thirds of dungeons being for the 3 dps one healer group, it would be 8 dps per tank.

Then what is the different? Most vet dungeon right now can be done with 3 dps 1 healer. It doesn't matter if the "tank" is actually a dps, if the group is good, you can still beat the dungeon even faster than a 2 dps + 1 tank + 1 healer group. But if the group is bad, you will still wiping again and again and again. Change the tool so that it allow a group to form without tank won't solve the players' skill problem.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

i dont think it has anything to do with the group finder i think it works great besides that you can lie about your role but i think its more that being a dedicated healer/tank has no reward in this game if your a dps great you can do quest/pvp/arena all content is open to you but as say a tank you cant do to much damg as all your stats are in health and so they ar forced to switch just to do quest and any decent solo end game content so there are less witch makes them harder to find with group finder. so tanks get grouped faster.

How does it work great if a DPS role can't get in a queue for over an hour? I understand waiting 10 min, but for over an hour is a little ridiculous I'm sorry.

Guppet · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

This will be troll mercilessly. What if 2 trolls friends queue together, they do a pathetic job fulfilling their roles, and the other 2 "dare" to complain about them? They would check the "no" box together and suddenly the guys who actually DO their job and carry the group are banned for queuing as that role for 24 hours. Unfortunately, that role is also the only role he/she can do. So they will have to: 1- not using group finder for 24 hours, or 2- queue as a role that they CAN'T do.

Sorry but your idea just backfire completely, punish good players and push more people to FAKE their role just to get into the queue.

Then maybe split the dungeons so some are for 3 dps and a healer, while some are for 2 dps one healer and one tank. Then it's 5 dps to one tank and 2 healers. Queues would be quicker for dps, hopefully stoping those lying about the role they will play. Heck if they did two thirds of dungeons being for the 3 dps one healer group, it would be 8 dps per tank.

Then what is the different? Most vet dungeon right now can be done with 3 dps 1 healer. It doesn't matter if the "tank" is actually a dps, if the group is good, you can still beat the dungeon even faster than a 2 dps + 1 tank + 1 healer group. But if the group is bad, you will still wiping again and again and again. Change the tool so that it allow a group to form without tank won't solve the players' skill problem.

It will solve th issue of people queuing as roles they have no intention of doing, which is the whole point of the thread.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Maybe I am expecting random groups to be playing like a lot of the good players I've played with. Maybe that's the problem.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

Then we'll have a new wave of criers make thread about "why the group finder put me in a group with no tank? How are we supposed to beat a dungeon with no tank?" Again, it's players skill problem, which you should expected queuing into a RANDOM group finder.

Guppet · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Then we'll have a new wave of criers make thread about "why the group finder put me in a group with no tank? How are we supposed to beat a dungeon with no tank?" Again, it's players skill problem, which you should expected queuing into a RANDOM group finder.

Are you just not reading what I said? I said make some instance be flagged as not needing a tank. If you pop an instance with no tank flagged, it's because you don't need one. It's simple. It also stops you getting no tank groups on the hard content that does need one. The decision on if you need a tank for content is made by the devs, not you.

Reykice · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think that after a dungeon, a check box comes up for each player, saying did they perform the role they queued for, if 2 say no, then you can't queue as that role again for 24 hours. If that happens frequently, the ban gets longer.

You can still queue, just not as a tank or heals and as it only takes 2 no's, you can't queue with a friend, who says yes you tanked, when you didn't.

This will be troll mercilessly. What if 2 trolls friends queue together, they do a pathetic job fulfilling their roles, and the other 2 "dare" to complain about them? They would check the "no" box together and suddenly the guys who actually DO their job and carry the group are banned for queuing as that role for 24 hours. Unfortunately, that role is also the only role he/she can do. So they will have to: 1- not using group finder for 24 hours, or 2- queue as a role that they CAN'T do.

Sorry but your idea just backfire completely, punish good players and push more people to FAKE their role just to get into the queue.

Then maybe split the dungeons so some are for 3 dps and a healer, while some are for 2 dps one healer and one tank. Then it's 5 dps to one tank and 2 healers. Queues would be quicker for dps, hopefully stoping those lying about the role they will play. Heck if they did two thirds of dungeons being for the 3 dps one healer group, it would be 8 dps per tank.

Then what is the different? Most vet dungeon right now can be done with 3 dps 1 healer. It doesn't matter if the "tank" is actually a dps, if the group is good, you can still beat the dungeon even faster than a 2 dps + 1 tank + 1 healer group. But if the group is bad, you will still wiping again and again and again. Change the tool so that it allow a group to form without tank won't solve the players' skill problem.

This is the problem, the average player is bad.

In a perfect world dps would have to do a dummy trial where they have to kill a test dummy in 1 minute and that dummy is tuned so you need 15k dps. Then you are allowed to queue for vet dungeons.

Even WOW was hard back when it gained popularity not faceroll like ESO is now. There are people who did the vet dungeons SOLO. Yes, SOLO. The ones who don`t have a mechanic preventing that, up to Veteran City of Ash.

So 4 people should roll through it and if they don`t maybe its time to admit that bad players exist and make a dps/heal/tank check.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

The good group won't need tank, but the average group can't beat it without one. ZOS can't flag a dungeon as need tank or not because they can't tailor the dungeon for each group with different players skill. The only way to help increase the ratio between tank and heal/dps is give more reward for using group finder. As I said in my suggession thread, after finish the daily random and sometime the pledges, I simply have no derise to queue for more, the reward are just not worth. And since tanks are rare, when they all finished their daily, there are still a bunch of dps line up in the queue.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Then we'll have a new wave of criers make thread about "why the group finder put me in a group with no tank? How are we supposed to beat a dungeon with no tank?" Again, it's players skill problem, which you should expected queuing into a RANDOM group finder.

Are you just not reading what I said? I said make some instance be flagged as not needing a tank. If you pop an instance with no tank flagged, it's because you don't need one. It's simple. It also stops you getting no tank groups on the hard content that does need one. The decision on if you need a tank for content is made by the devs, not you.

This is something they really need to do then, because honestly speaking a lot of dungeons even with not so good players are beatable without a tank needed. That way DPS can queue more easily into dungeons without false expectations with roles from people. My opinion the dungeons that would make it easier with tanks are vCoA, vWGT, and vICP.

Guppet · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

The good group won't need tank, but the average group can't beat it without one. ZOS can't flag a dungeon as need tank or not because they can't tailor the dungeon for each group with different players skill. The only way to help increase the ratio between tank and heal/dps is give more reward for using group finder. As I said in my suggession thread, after finish the daily random and sometime the pledges, I simply have no derise to queue for more, the reward are just not worth. And since tanks are rare, when they all finished their daily, there are still a bunch of dps line up in the queue.

That's about skill not role. You balance for average skill and average skill will need a tank for the harder 3.

Callous2208 · April 2016

I came here feeling good and then read some posts where people insisted taunting and holding aggro wasn't an absolute necessity in tanking. Now I have a headache and I think I'll just stop foruming for today.

If you're not taunting, you don't have aggro. If you don't have aggro, you're not absorbing incoming damage. If you're not absorbing incoming damage...you're not tanking. If you're grabbing aggro without taunting, you're healing or dpsing. Just because you can run some dungeons in ESO without a tank, doesn't change the definition of one.

Lucius_Aelius · April 2016

Dang, every time I hear about this stuff it just makes me so glad that all my characters are Tanks. They're all Hybrid Builds (only two actually leveled so far but the other two will be Tank Hybrids when I do) but with a focus on Tanking first and foremost. It's such a relief not having to deal with this nonsense, and fake healers don't come up very often (though I had one guy the other day claim to be a Healer for the sole reason that "he had Blood Altar equipped...." .....groan..... Some people).

I actually thought about making characters with other roles, but after having a Tank I'm now spoiled with the short queues in group finder, and now all my characters are going to be Tanks just for that, but Hybrid Tanks to keep things interesting (Hybrids are more interesting anyway and I would have all Hybrids either way, but the difficulty of making effective Hybrid Builds for non-tanks and the prospect of longer queues settled the matter of what kind of Hybrids my characters would be).

Part of the problem is definitely that the game does a terrible job of teaching players what it takes to do well at any given role, but people wilfully signing up as something they know they aren't to get faster queues is also definitely a thing and a problem, those people are just straight-up being selfish ***.

I don't think I've ever actually bothered to report anyone before using the in-game report feature (I've reported to Xbox but not ZOS) but if there isn't an option to report people for lying about what they are then there should be, anything to stop people from being able to get away with this ***. For me it's the principle of the thing, if you intentionally lied to get a faster queue time then you don't deserve to be allowed to finish the dungeon you queued for, I don't care if people think it's easy on most dungeons because that still encourages people to act selfishly without fear of reprisal.

Whatever ZOS does, they should definitely do something to fix this, because using the group finder can be hassle enough even when you get people that aren't liars, such as people running alternative builds that don't really work, or don't work at all. I don't mind people who really don't know what they're doing so much, not as long as they're willing to learn and get better (and unfortunately the only way for players to really test if a build works is by running it in dungeons and seeing what happens, for better or worse), but selfish liars I cannot tolerate.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

The entire reason tanks and healers get in faster is because there is so few of them. If you want to random as a tank, bare minimum is inner fire to draw off some of the agro on trash pulls and the boss.
If you can't be bothered to do this slot group heals and queue as a healer. Note the plural, as in more than one.
If you don't want to draw agro or heal, enjoy your long wait times.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

let me make it clear im not expecting an amzing 10/10 group everytime i join but atleast be honest about your roles if you can do both great que as both if not dont lie just to get a group.

People do it because the dungeon times are ridiculously long if you q as DPS and the wait time is up to over an hour. What DPS wants to wait that long especially if you can complete most dungeons without a tank? The only ones that I would be worried about DPS queuing as tank would be the obvious harder ones.

I did it once on a normal dungeon and came in as a tank position while I'm DPS. Everyone in the dungeon was a nonvet player except for me being the only v16. Ended up carrying the whole team and we still beat it. Just so you know when I've done this and came in dungeon the dungeon, I do come in and admit and say yeah I am DPS but we don't need a tank to beat it. Majority of the times we do beat it without an actual tank. Like I said give people a chance and talk to them about it. If they don't do well then kick or leave. Not every DPS who goes in as a tank is a trash player. It's easier to find a good DPS who can help beat the dungeon without a tank than waiting for hours for a tank that could possibly not even be good and might not even get the dungeon done. But sometimes you just never know, but give it a shot and you may be pleasantly surprised.

You are the reason for posts like this. It doesn't matter if you complete the instance. You are cheating the system to get a quicker queue. You could be the best DPS in the game but your utterly selfish.

If you don't intend to tank, dint queue as one. Why should you get a queue much much shorter than the other 2 DPS in the group? What if your healer was new to this role and wanted to learn how to heal a tank?

They need to let you ignore players mid dungeon and have them no longer receive heals from you or ever be able to be placed in groups with you again.

They need to sort this, so people like you know it's unacceptable behaviour. Since you seem to think it's OK to ruin other peoples games.

I hope your queing in a shop and 1500 kids push in front of you. That's what your doing to the honest players.

Ok I'm gonna make it clear... then maybe ZoS should do something about this stupid group finder so that DPS don't have to wait for over an hour while tanks and healers get in way quicker.

I apologize if I go in like that, but it's way easier for tanks and healers to get in. How do you expect DPS to get in on it then? DPS are already pushed to the side by queuing as DPS because it takes hours to get in a group. I don't find balance if tanks and healers can get grouped up faster than a DPS in queue. DPS should not have to wait for hours just to get in through group finder. It should be similar or equal time. That's a broken system that ZoS needs to fix or else this is going to keep happening. Do I really want to queue in as a tank? No. Have I done it before? Yes. Do I still do it? No I actually stopped and when I stopped I completely stopped using group finder because it's a broken system for DPS roles. It doesn't work more than half the time.

My original comment was that I was explaining why the DPS does it and it has been effective for the most part.

The entire reason tanks and healers get in faster is because there is so few of them. If you want to random as a tank, bare minimum is inner fire to draw off some of the agro on trash pulls and the boss.
If you can't be bothered to do this slot group heals and queue as a healer. Note the plural, as in more than one.
If you don't want to draw agro or heal, enjoy your long wait times.

This is true. There's always more dds than tanks and healers, so there's naturally more competition for them.
That being said, some of the "dds" cant really dps as well and only join as dds because they cant tank and cant heal. Its also one of the reasons why tanks and healers dont have much incentive to pug.