failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Social and casual guilds would be left alone with bad players and new players, as the majority of the good players would quit them over guilds where they were more equal and able to gain buffs.

That's why basic activities would be weighted more. Just leveling and doing content would be huge, plus like I said activities like fishing would also be rewarded. The point isn't that some guild would have "all the bonuses" and other few or none, there would be many ways to get Guild Points and as long as there are active members doing *something* in the game that can be tracked it would be fine. Only dead guilds or guilds where people only over logged on to chat with each other and never do any content would be lagging behind on bestowing buffs. And even then they could be revived by members getting active in some way.

Could you recommend activities that social guilds could get bonuses for from their player activity? I would love to add to the list in the original post. Also I wish there were in-game things to measure/reward role players as well.

Bonuses? But circle jerking with other neckbeards and creeps is its own reward.

If I wanted more perks for being around people I hated but needed to pretend I like, I'd be in more real-life professional organizations.

No.
Many players in ESO like to not be in any guild & enjoy their free roam in Tamriel without having to answer to anyone or anything.
This idea will enforce everyone to a certain playstyle.
What you suggest can be make the game even more unbalanced.
No thanks.

tinythinker wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

No.
Many players in ESO like to not be in any guild & enjoy their free roam in Tamriel without having to answer to anyone or anything.
This idea will enforce everyone to a certain playstyle.
What you suggest can be make the game even more unbalanced.
No thanks.

So players who "answer to no one" will be forced to join guilds to get minor buffs and this will unbalance the game? And because you can earn points for AvA, or solo PvE, or group PVE or crafting, or fishing, or collecting, etc, they will be forced into a certain playstyle? Rewards for being minimally social in an MMO is tyranny?

Why anyone should be forced to any playstyle ?
I'm a member of guilds but there are players who don't like it at all.
What of those who are not members of a guild ? Why should they be casted aside and earn less XP for example ?
I'm quite sure that ZOS will reject this idea for the same reasons I have stated.

Lord wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

No.
Many players in ESO like to not be in any guild & enjoy their free roam in Tamriel without having to answer to anyone or anything.
This idea will enforce everyone to a certain playstyle.
What you suggest can be make the game even more unbalanced.
No thanks.

So players who "answer to no one" will be forced to join guilds to get minor buffs and this will unbalance the game? And because you can earn points for AvA, or solo PvE, or group PVE or crafting, or fishing, or collecting, etc, they will be forced into a certain playstyle? Rewards for being minimally social in an MMO is tyranny?

Why anyone should be forced to any playstyle ?

I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I have tried to convey in my OP and my first reply to you that no one would be forced to play any particular way. As long as you are active in the game, you would be contributing and thus helping your guild. And no one would be forced to join a guild any more than they are forced to run random dungeons for a bonus, or kill a delve boss in Cyro for a bonus, or subscribe to ESO Plus for a bonus, and so on. Unless those are also forms of tyranny.

Lord wrote: »

I'm a member of guilds but there are players who don't like it at all. What of those who are not members of a guild ? Why should they be casted aside and earn less XP for example ?

Oh, they won't just be cast aside. They will lose experience every day until they join a guild, and if they don't join one by the time the drop to level 1, their character will be deleted. Because tyranny.

But seriously, people who don't want to join guilds will be perfectly fine.

Lord wrote: »

I'm quite sure that ZOS will reject this idea for the same reasons I have stated.

Obviously.

Acrolas wrote: »

Bonuses? But circle jerking with other neckbeards and creeps is its own reward.

If I wanted more perks for being around people I hated but needed to pretend I like, I'd be in more real-life professional organizations.

Good thing you play an MMO. Keep your hate and ridiculousness out of here.

WoW tried guild perks, and really the only ones that worked well(IMHO) were the guild achievements. Guild halls would also be really cool.

Personally, I don't think people should feel pressured to join a guild if they don't want to. It's not good for the player or the guild. As an officer in a lvl 25 wow guild before they took away levels, 'I just want the perks' was a huge pet peeve of mine, and people who joined for that reason left for little reason and didn't add anything.

tinythinker wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

WoW tried guild perks, and really the only ones that worked well(IMHO) were the guild achievements. Guild halls would also be really cool.

Personally, I don't think people should feel pressured to join a guild if they don't want to. It's not good for the player or the guild. As an officer in a lvl 25 wow guild before they took away levels, 'I just want the perks' was a huge pet peeve of mine, and people who joined for that reason left for little reason and didn't add anything.

Valid concern. That's why I was hoping for an interactive system, so that it wouldn't just be one-sided. For example, I would limit any buffs to only a few hours per day rather than have them active 24/7. No reason to run in and join a guild just for that unless you are really obsessive about bonuses

Obviously guild achievements and guild halls are neutral but not unimportant, especially for role-players with all the cool renovations and additions and decor I had in mind. The mount training could be less effective, maybe only reducing the interval to fifteen hours rather than all the way down to ten so that it's still a bonus. The idea isn't to pressure anyone into joining guilds, but to reward people who want to join them and who regularly play the game. I wouldn't really want to put in things so big or "must have" that people would feel like they couldn't compete without being in a guild, but, I also would like to see perks that encourage people to be social and active within a guild.

Definitely a delicate balancing act. That's why I am looking for feedback on how such a system should work and what it should offer in order to avoid such pitfalls.

Thing is, I don't see any reason to reward someone for joining a guild. And any sort of mechanical bonus, no matter how small an XP gain or whatnot will make people feel compelled to join a guild. I don't run a guild in ESO, but speaking as someone from wow? I'm not a fan. Especially if you make it based on guild points, which will make it more difficult to recruit people to new guilds. People aren't going to join saying 'yay I get to help the guild grow'. They're going to say 'damn, I want the bonus, gotta grind. Maybe I should join a different guild.'

Achievements are fun and can be directly tied to activities that involve your guild. Completing Dolmens, group dungeons, trials, et cetera together. Tie it to vanity titles(Hero of Guild) or snazzier tabards. Or let you dye your shield with your guild crest. Things that have no mechanical difference.

Jaeysa wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

WoW tried guild perks, and really the only ones that worked well(IMHO) were the guild achievements. Guild halls would also be really cool.

Personally, I don't think people should feel pressured to join a guild if they don't want to. It's not good for the player or the guild. As an officer in a lvl 25 wow guild before they took away levels, 'I just want the perks' was a huge pet peeve of mine, and people who joined for that reason left for little reason and didn't add anything.

Valid concern. That's why I was hoping for an interactive system, so that it wouldn't just be one-sided. For example, I would limit any buffs to only a few hours per day rather than have them active 24/7. No reason to run in and join a guild just for that unless you are really obsessive about bonuses

Obviously guild achievements and guild halls are neutral but not unimportant, especially for role-players with all the cool renovations and additions and decor I had in mind. The mount training could be less effective, maybe only reducing the interval to fifteen hours rather than all the way down to ten so that it's still a bonus. The idea isn't to pressure anyone into joining guilds, but to reward people who want to join them and who regularly play the game. I wouldn't really want to put in things so big or "must have" that people would feel like they couldn't compete without being in a guild, but, I also would like to see perks that encourage people to be social and active within a guild.

Definitely a delicate balancing act. That's why I am looking for feedback on how such a system should work and what it should offer in order to avoid such pitfalls.

Thing is, I don't see any reason to reward someone for joining a guild.

It's reciprocal: you play (which helps the guild), the guild helps you. The reward is for being active and connecting to other players. Why do devs reward anyone for doing anything in games? To make it more fun for the players, to encourage players to play. They wanted people to go into delves in Cyrodiil so they have bonuses for killing delve bosses. And players tend to like little perks and to feel like what they are doing has an effect. Some people will even like the idea that just by playing they are helping other people in their guild.

Jaeysa wrote: »

And any sort of mechanical bonus, no matter how small an XP gain or whatnot will make people feel compelled to join a guild. I don't run a guild in ESO, but speaking as someone from wow? I'm not a fan. Especially if you make it based on guild points, which will make it more difficult to recruit people to new guilds. People aren't going to join saying 'yay I get to help the guild grow'. They're going to say 'damn, I want the bonus, gotta grind. Maybe I should join a different guild.'

Not sure why players would be averse to new guilds for that reason. If you have players crafting, earning achievements, leveling, or anything else, your guild would have the same small bonus available, and it would only be for a limited time each day, and all active guilds would have it. I am sure there are people who are addicted to even brief, small bonuses to XP/AP/IN who would want to join a guild just for that perk, but that is true of anything in the game that exploiters, min-maxers, and uber-grinders will go for.

I honestly wouldn't want to join a guild *just* for some brief little buff like the one I described, it wouldn't be worth it. I rarely bother getting the AP delve buff when I visit Cyrodiil. Maybe I am an outlier in that regard. I would be tempted by a tricked out guild hall, though. One solution, which could introduce other problems, would be to tie access to the bonus to guild rank, which would probably mean fewer people joining serious guilds for their grind fix but more "fluff" guilds being created. Of course, I personally don't care about the existence of fluff guilds, so if people are that desperate for every perceived advantage, they can go ahead try it.

Jaeysa wrote: »

Achievements are fun and can be directly tied to activities that involve your guild. Completing Dolmens, group dungeons, trials, et cetera together. Tie it to vanity titles(Hero of Guild) or snazzier tabards. Or let you dye your shield with your guild crest. Things that have no mechanical difference.

Which could still be tied to a Guild Point system where or not there was a mechanical buff bonus So basically, "yes to the basic concept, no to the small brief daily buff", if I am getting what you're saying. In terms of non-mechanics things, any other ideas? Something for fishing, maybe? A way to work crafting into it? (Maybe the ability to add a crafting station to the Guild Hall?)

Xjcon wrote: »

Please no guild buffs. Anything else I'm ok with, but game play buffs simply for being in a guild is just like PVP buff campaigns.

That seems to be the major point of concern thus far, so, if people have ideas for how to make such buffs work in way that is reasonable and not a "must have", I'm all ears.

But as I said in my OP, there are different types of perks on the table as well, some of which I've elaborated on, and there may be others that people would like to see/would be comfortable with that don't involve buffs. So, even if folks are averse to buffs, please feel free to share you ideas for non-buff perks as well.

Jaeysa wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

WoW tried guild perks, and really the only ones that worked well(IMHO) were the guild achievements. Guild halls would also be really cool.

Personally, I don't think people should feel pressured to join a guild if they don't want to. It's not good for the player or the guild. As an officer in a lvl 25 wow guild before they took away levels, 'I just want the perks' was a huge pet peeve of mine, and people who joined for that reason left for little reason and didn't add anything.

Valid concern. That's why I was hoping for an interactive system, so that it wouldn't just be one-sided. For example, I would limit any buffs to only a few hours per day rather than have them active 24/7. No reason to run in and join a guild just for that unless you are really obsessive about bonuses

Obviously guild achievements and guild halls are neutral but not unimportant, especially for role-players with all the cool renovations and additions and decor I had in mind. The mount training could be less effective, maybe only reducing the interval to fifteen hours rather than all the way down to ten so that it's still a bonus. The idea isn't to pressure anyone into joining guilds, but to reward people who want to join them and who regularly play the game. I wouldn't really want to put in things so big or "must have" that people would feel like they couldn't compete without being in a guild, but, I also would like to see perks that encourage people to be social and active within a guild.

Definitely a delicate balancing act. That's why I am looking for feedback on how such a system should work and what it should offer in order to avoid such pitfalls.

Thing is, I don't see any reason to reward someone for joining a guild.

It's reciprocal: you play (which helps the guild), the guild helps you. The reward is for being active and connecting to other players. Why do devs reward anyone for doing anything in games? To make it more fun for the players, to encourage players to play. They wanted people to go into delves in Cyrodiil so they have bonuses for killing delve bosses. And players tend to like little perks and to feel like what they are doing has an effect. Some people will even like the idea that just by playing they are helping other people in their guild.

Jaeysa wrote: »

And any sort of mechanical bonus, no matter how small an XP gain or whatnot will make people feel compelled to join a guild. I don't run a guild in ESO, but speaking as someone from wow? I'm not a fan. Especially if you make it based on guild points, which will make it more difficult to recruit people to new guilds. People aren't going to join saying 'yay I get to help the guild grow'. They're going to say 'damn, I want the bonus, gotta grind. Maybe I should join a different guild.'

Not sure why players would be averse to new guilds for that reason. If you have players crafting, earning achievements, leveling, or anything else, your guild would have the same small bonus available, and it would only be for a limited time each day, and all active guilds would have it. I am sure there are people who are addicted to even brief, small bonuses to XP/AP/IN who would want to join a guild just for that perk, but that is true of anything in the game that exploiters, min-maxers, and uber-grinders will go for.

I honestly wouldn't want to join a guild *just* for some brief little buff like the one I described, it wouldn't be worth it. I rarely bother getting the AP delve buff when I visit Cyrodiil. Maybe I am an outlier in that regard. I would be tempted by a tricked out guild hall, though. One solution, which could introduce other problems, would be to tie access to the bonus to guild rank, which would probably mean fewer people joining serious guilds for their grind fix but more "fluff" guilds being created. Of course, I personally don't care about the existence of fluff guilds, so if people are that desperate for every perceived advantage, they can go ahead try it.

Jaeysa wrote: »

Achievements are fun and can be directly tied to activities that involve your guild. Completing Dolmens, group dungeons, trials, et cetera together. Tie it to vanity titles(Hero of Guild) or snazzier tabards. Or let you dye your shield with your guild crest. Things that have no mechanical difference.

Which could still be tied to a Guild Point system where or not there was a mechanical buff bonus So basically, "yes to the basic concept, no to the small brief daily buff", if I am getting what you're saying. In terms of non-mechanics things, any other ideas? Something for fishing, maybe? A way to work crafting into it? (Maybe the ability to add a crafting station to the Guild Hall?)

Regarding the first point: It's already reciprocal. You join a guild, they help you get groups/trade/craft. In return you are a part of the group, your guild gets a small tax off of your store sales, you can craft. If players need more encouragement to play, maybe guilds should push themselves to be better.

It's a game, not a self-improvement project . I'm just looking for ways to have more fun with guilds, to reward people for trying them, etc. Some ideas will be better than others.

Jaeysa wrote: »

The second point: Many will. And have, in the case of wow. You might not join for a mechanic perk, but many will - and I just don't like dealing with them during recruitment.

Yup, as I said before, valid concern. Glad you raised it.

Jaeysa wrote: »

You want there to be guild points, as a sort of ranking system? People earn guild points and the guild gets better perks? If not, and if you're in a guild you just get perks, why even bother? I've got no problems with fluff guilds, but at that point why bother? I'll reiterate: I don't like mechanical bonuses. At all. If you're going to make them hard to get for guilds you risk making smaller guilds harder to make, and if you don't there's no point in them.

Naw, nothing that elaborate. I just meant that serious guilds could have no buff perk at the lowest rank, so that people who wanted to join for some small buff would have to be involved or have a trial period. That already happens in many guilds even without perks.

As for fluff guilds/why bother, it's the same for most things in these kinds of games. Take grinding. People will do it no matter what, even if you nerf all of the good grinding spots. Same with exploiting. Same with min-maxining. Same with FoTM builds. And on and on. There are always things people will do with game mechanics that the devs didn't intend and that other players find annoying or distasteful. If they/their behavior can be boxed off in some way so that it has little or no impact on anyone else, then why not offer something other players with fewer "compulsive/win at all costs" tendencies might appreciate?

This isn't about arguing for or against mechanical buffs, I get why people don't like them and I showed in my last reply I get that you really, really don't like them. It's just my view in general on such issues -- I hate seeing the behavior of a subset of players or customers take away something that other people could enjoy or benefit from. It's like those parents at an Easter event last month who swarmed a field, knocking over small children to fill their own kids baskets with tons of eggs, causing the event to be canceled. So, if those "gotta get it all/take any buff" types can be boxed in fluff guilds to leave the rest of us in peace, then *awesome*.

Jaeysa wrote: »

Guild halls? Hell yes. Give them crafting areas, maybe a bank like thieves dens have. Cosmetics? Sure. Maybe even guild achievements for completing dungeons in a guild group. But leave the perks at that.

Yup, that's what I was getting at. You mentioned you had experience with what was a headache, what was fun, what worked, what didn't, so I am just asking for any insights you have into the "fun/it worked" category.