Open Letter to the Community and Zenimax

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

ai.kiramekueb17_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one who loves almost everything ZOS does? I mean I think they are really doing their best. You guys always find a reason to cry...

You can't deny the fact the game has a lot of bugs and PvP (and sometimes PvE) has lag problems...

They didn't cause them though, they seek to fix them.

Skorol007 · April 2016

@crazmadsci as you said, you are not a pvp person and barely went to Cyrodiil. Now the reason why people QQ so much on the forums is due to all the bugs and lag in cyrodiil that have been there for ages! They actually got worse with TG... and the future does not look bright.

Please do spend a few evenings in Cyrodiil, so you realize how bad it is. Most of the PVP community got to a point where we just cannot accept the current state of the game anymore, we lost the patience we had.

On the pve side though, i do agree with everything you said.

SirAndy · April 2016

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

@Beerbong_Ginn

Remember that one night when we all got naked and danced around for hours?

Frenkthevile · April 2016

Great letter, but ...
My two cents: LAG in EU server is unacceptable. It's worse than a game in beta. I have ping 40 on evry game (sw:b, LoL, etc. ) and i have 180-200 ping on ESO. Not Good.

crazmadsci · April 2016

Skorol007 wrote: »

@crazmadsci as you said, you are not a pvp person and barely went to Cyrodiil. Now the reason why people QQ so much on the forums is due to all the bugs and lag in cyrodiil that have been there for ages! They actually got worse with TG... and the future does not look bright.

Please do spend a few evenings in Cyrodiil, so you realize how bad it is. Most of the PVP community got to a point where we just cannot accept the current state of the game anymore, we lost the patience we had.

On the pve side though, i do agree with everything you said.

I agree and I do not deny the fruatatuon. My fiancee will no longer play with me due to the lag. I don't say I don't play PvP. But there is still so much I can do in tamriel until things are better. Does it suck lag hasn't been fixed? Absolutely. Do I feel bad and agree with the frustration of the PvP community? Absolutely. If I was them would I leave? Sure, however I know things are going to get better.

If you want to help the change do it. I'm not preaching or forcing an opinion on anyone.

Just wanted to put many thoughts into 1 post.

waterfairy · April 2016

puffy99 wrote: »

ESO is severely underfunded, or the development team/mgt team has some major issues at ALL levels of game dev.

I don't think income is the issue because this game has made them more money then a lesser company that puts in more work (and love) into their product.

Setting aside all the people that have subscribed since PC launch and all the people that sub today across all platforms (more then enough to pay their bills), think about how much money was made off of the console B2P launch at $60 per copy.
If we assume a modest amount of console players bought it, say 10 million players, that's $600 million right up front. I'm willing to bet that 50 million or more console copies were sold which puts billions in their bank...plenty of funding for a year of quality work and yet we still have a pretty poor quality product, hence why so many angry posters/streamers/etc. get so up in arms over something they're passionate about.

AzraelKrieg · April 2016

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

That was supposed to be a secret?

IITHEOPII · April 2016

Frenkthevile wrote: »

Great letter, but ...
My two cents: LAG in EU server is unacceptable. It's worse than a game in beta. I have ping 40 on evry game (sw:b, LoL, etc. ) and i have 180-200 ping on ESO. Not Good.

Ive had 300+ Since launch, now I get around 600-900 ping. I would be a god with 40 ping.

Gidorick · April 2016

jkemmery wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

The thing is @jkemmery , there have been PLENTY of well thought out, evenly toned, reasonable posts regarding the types of issues OP discusses... and yea, there have been QQ threads. Welcome to the internet.

And if ZOS just flat out ignores a thread because the person is using impassionate phraseology, that should be disclosed to the community so we can be aware that a thread full of seething rage will not get any attention from them. Well, no attention aside from moderation, of course.

Of course, we all know that isn't the case because it seems to be that most of the time an issue isn't addressed until there is a torrent of threads, posts, tweets, facbook posts, air-writings, ancient scroll decipherings, Ouija Board summonings, and bathroom wall scribblings complaining about a topic. Sometimes not even then.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

I think we can safely assume they ignore seething rage posts.

Taleof2Cities · April 2016

Gidorick · April 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think we can safely assume they ignore seething rage posts.

I would hope not. Sure, don't respond to them, but it should create some internal discussion. Wouldn't you think @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO ?

tinythinker · April 2016

Basically, the game has always "had potential". Some people eventually wake up and realize that, nope, this is it, just more of the same content, and if you don't like it as it already is, too bad. Maybe they are wrong in this realization, and a big transformation is right around the corner, but if they have such an epiphany and believe in it, it's a big let down.

ESO is a fun single player game when you first get it, and there are lots of achievements to chase. So people doing that stuff who like the UI, combat style, environmental assets, etc, will love the game. But after you've done the base game quests, dolmens, delves, etc once or twice (or five or eight times), and either don't like or have also done the limited amount of group content, your options narrow. Go to PvP and, if you aren't a great twitch-reflex player with high end gear, die a lot. Or surf the zergs. Either way it's a lagfest on the Herman Cain plan (999 ping). Maybe wait for new DLC, then fight through the new and old bugs to try to finish it, which usually doesn't take too long. Maybe visit the forums and read about the new bugs, old bugs, and balance issues, mostly from players, rarely from ZOS.

So it seems to me as someone who has spent a couple of years in the game and on the forums that a lot of the negativity from the community comes from:

-players who've been around a long time and who've become jaded toward ZOS promises.
-players who've been around a long time and are tired of the same bugs from X months or even years ago.
-players who've been around a long time and are fed up waiting for features discussed years ago but are still "in the works" or "no ETA".
-players who've been around a long time and are tired of no major content updates for PvP other than IC, which in some ways bombed.
-players who've been around a long time and who are sick of terrible performance issues in Cyrodiil like crippling lag.
-players who've been around a long time and who are frustrated with sporadic, vague communication from ZOS on the above issues and with how little improvement there has been on the above issues.
-newer players who have encountered these problems but have far less patience than the older players who've stuck around waiting for serious improvements or solutions.
-newer players who are used to a particular way of MMORPGs working and who are upset to see particular features they expect to be in a game either lacking or broken.
-older and newer players who worry that the B2P model means more bugs, less polish on assets, and fewer/slower significant changes than games with a sub-only model.
-trolls who know that the above issues are great way to #$%^ people off and stir the pot on the forums for their own amusement or to get people to "feel their pain" about one or more of the above issues.

I don't blame players one bit for being frustrated with, angry at, or disappointed in ZOS regarding one or more of the issues mentioned, but, I also have zero sympathy for people who throw childish tantrums in online spaces where the ESO community is present, or who harass people for not being as fed up as they are or for still enjoying the game.

Constructive criticism and feedback sounds like a good idea, but players need to temper their expectations. I've been known to make a suggestion or two for the improvement or expansion of ESO, even as recently as last night, based on what my own preferences, experiences, and reactions suggest would make the game more fun. In fact, it also occurred to me last night (but I didn't bother with a write-up) just how depressing a lot of the settings are, even for a world facing a Planemeld and living in a fractured Empire in the midst of a civil war. Even the celebrations in Auridon and Eastmarch are lacking, largely because there is no festive/light/merry music when you go to the few places having a good time. And somehow if there were I'm betting it would be the same song over and over throughout Tamriel. Which then got me to thinking they need more types of music and more variety of music, like that sad wistful tune they recently added to Dwemer ruins. Music that is wistful but not necessarily sad, wistful and sad, inspirational that soars, inspirational that rocks, myserious inviting, mysterious unsettling, etc, etc. After all music has a big impact on player experiences in video games. And there are so few trials, still no raids, no "part two" of many dungeons, which could each have unique pieces (if not whole songs, but each big boss in the game should have its own song), and... oh, sorry. That line of though got away from me there. But there are many cultures in the game, so they can afford to branch out from the musical style they started with and... sorry, still on that line of thought.

Anyway, I don't expect ZOS to be hanging on anything any particular person proposes, as the forums, Reddit, and a number of other platforms are filled with such suggestions. ZOS will make the game they want to make, so, if people don't like it as it is now (more or less) and have lost hope it will change in major way, or have gotten burned out on it waiting for whatever is they hoped to see, it is up to them to decide how long they want to stick around. A few stick around to, I guess, keep poking ZOS and to make sure new players know what they feel is the story of what has gone wrong and why ZOS is to blame for those things. And as long as they don't violate forum rules they are free to do so.

The things mentioned by the OP about better communication and interaction with the players have been said over and over and over, I've even done that song and dance a few times, so who knows how or if that will be something that really changes. In the meantime, ESO is what it is, however people feel about it. If it gets you down, there are plenty of other games to play.

Beerbong_Ginn · April 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

@Beerbong_Ginn

Remember that one night when we all got naked and danced around for hours?

OMG, Sir Andy, yes!!!!!!!! Dude, I still get feels every time I pass that circle pit in Windhelm. Think I still have a vid on my YouTube hahah.

Solariken · April 2016

@crazmadsci I appreciate the time you took to write this. Your love of the game and its community is very apparent. You make many very well-thought points.

However, I think your hope for its future is largely misplaced. I do not believe ZO$ has the will, the resources, or the necessary leadership quality to invest in this game. Most of the very talented people who developed the game have long gone to work for other companies. ZO$ seems to have shifted its strategy to milking the game for short term revenue without having to improve game systems/features. It seems clear that they run a skeleton crew of both devs and community managers, which I'm sure is why you don't see any of the community outreach/involvement that we used to see.

I hope that I'm wrong though. The base PvP combat in this game is a shining star in the MMO world, but it needs to be developed and maintained or it will be left behind.

The same should be said for Imperial City - I LOVE that DLC - it's honestly my favorite part of this game. However, it is WOEFULLY incomplete. It makes me sick how unfinished that DLC is and how empty it has become.

I see no signs whatsoever that this game will be improved or have a long and prosperous existence. ZOS has shifted focus to the PvE "Skyrim Online" type of player, which is a massive mistake considering those players will leave en masse when TES VI releases.

tinythinker · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

The thing is @jkemmery , there have been PLENTY of well thought out, evenly toned, reasonable posts regarding the types of issues OP discusses... and yea, there have been QQ threads. Welcome to the internet.

Yup, lots of well thought out and well written feedback on these and other issues and... *crickets*

That means less of such feedback, with more of the angry, spittle-flecked rants to fill the vacuum.

Beerbong_Ginn · April 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

That was supposed to be a secret?

Lol, it's a secret to all....

AzraelKrieg · April 2016

IITHEOPII wrote: »

Frenkthevile wrote: »

Great letter, but ...
My two cents: LAG in EU server is unacceptable. It's worse than a game in beta. I have ping 40 on evry game (sw:b, LoL, etc. ) and i have 180-200 ping on ESO. Not Good.

Ive had 300+ Since launch, now I get around 600-900 ping. I would be a god with 40 ping.

You'd be more OP then you already are. But 40 ping would be great. Shame all incoming connections to Australia go through Sydney and onwards to everyone else from there. I think the megaserver setup while a good concept has missed the mark for people outside Europe and North America

Anzriel · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

The thing is @jkemmery , there have been PLENTY of well thought out, evenly toned, reasonable posts regarding the types of issues OP discusses... and yea, there have been QQ threads. Welcome to the internet.

And if ZOS just flat out ignores a thread because the person is using impassionate phraseology, that should be disclosed to the community so we can be aware that a thread full of seething rage will not get any attention from them. Well, no attention aside from moderation, of course.

Of course, we all know that isn't the case because it seems to be that most of the time an issue isn't addressed until there is a torrent of threads, posts, tweets, facbook posts, air-writings, ancient scroll decipherings, Ouija Board summonings, and bathroom wall scribblings complaining about a topic. Sometimes not even then.

I think this is my biggest issue. There are plenty of well thought out constructive posts that seem to get completely ignored anyway. Maybe they are seeing it and considering them and just simply don't reply, but I honestly sometimes feel as if they ignore both the good and bad. I don't follow Fengrush's every word by any means, but he said one thing that stuck out to me. Something along the lines of having an ESO live and trying to be more positive and not bashing ZOS and being told it was "more tolerable". Perhaps I simply read into it more than what was there, but I almost feel like ZoS has a hard time dealing with criticism. Even constructive criticism. I can't think of a good reason for AoE caps to still be around other than one. An inability for them to suck up their egos and admit they were a mistake in the first place.

As for calling out the forum community I can't blame Craz, or anyone else, one bit. The community on the forums seems to be getting steadily worse as time gets on. PvE and PvP players both need make an effort to be more intellectually honest and less condescending of one another. It's gotten to the point where I'll check a few threads here and there, but mostly avoid the forums due to how bad it has gotten. No one is interested in solving problems anymore, it's all about being their own petty version of being "right".

As for streamers I think it's a mixed bag. Some of it is ego I'm sure, much of it is the same frustration you see from players. I think we all need to understand the fact that these streamers are just in front of a webcam more often. That means they are the same as anyone else, be it good or bad. Many of them do care about this game and want it to do well. Several of them are, however, quite frustrated, unfortunately their easy access to a camera sometimes captures that a bit too easily.

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

That was supposed to be a secret?

The least well kept secret in the history of the world.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think we can safely assume they ignore seething rage posts.

I would hope not. Sure, don't respond to them, but it should create some internal discussion. Wouldn't you think @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO ?

The discussion at most would be between moderators. I dont listen to people who scream at me either. Regardless of what they are saying.

Deadfinger6 · April 2016

Can't read this much text, does it end with the person going to Beverly Hills, living with his uncle and hailing a taxi? Can OP please condence it into Mr Men book size as opposed to War and Peace.

waterfairy · April 2016

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Can't read this much text, does it end with the person going to Beverly Hills, living with his uncle and hailing a taxi? Can OP please condence it into Mr Men book size as opposed to War and Peace.

Many words, very little said.

AzraelKrieg · April 2016

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

That was supposed to be a secret?

Lol, it's a secret to all....

Not anymore

FENGRUSH · April 2016

FENGRUSH has claimed the title of most toxic streamer for ESO - you can place the blame accordingly and to move on to more constructive subjects.

Its a nice read crazmadsci - a lot of stuff to poke at in there. I dont think ZOS dislikes their game, or isnt proud of it. I dont get that impression from interacting with them or seeing them talk about the game at all. I get the impression they do like their game and are proud of their work.

Its the reason they tune out negative feedback as 'toxic' though as well. They have taken a lot of negative things I have said about the game personally and actually dislike me for speaking out on their product. That is because they do love the game they are making.. so I dont doubt their commitment to the game. There is progress to be made in certain areas, I just firmly believe PVP isnt one that will get a genuine shot. They will do 'things', but I really dont believe they are commit to doing much there other than whatever they can to quell complaints. We have done things as a community and individuals to attempt finding more of a common ground. Weve even had threads where we forced the issue of 'AOE caps discussion'. The developers werent even willing to explain the issue - so there was no way to even 'discuss' something that is widely opposed by the PvP community.

Theres a lot of good stuff to talk about in this thread though. I think the general theme is that this game has a lot of negatives around it right now from community portions because the game took a step back in PvP from a lot of peoples view points and the overall quality of the patch wasnt too sound. It wasnt just a bad thing for PvP only - Ive done my rant videos and heard a lot from PVE crowds on different platforms having different issues in a lot of PVE content as well... its pretty surprising to me honestly. But I think it resonates the fact that they sacrificed quality of their product to sell quantity, and as someone whos on the PVP side that isnt getting quality or quantity, enough became enough.

I dont discourage people from speaking up, working with ZOS, and making a better game. If you think I hate this game youd be misunderstood. Ive played it for years as well and expect a lot from an Elder Scrolls title - and I also know what the game is capable of. These make me expect great things. And from my perspective, they have actually taken steps away from that game I used to enjoy.

I dont think this game will ever be the PvP game that people experienced back towards release. Its definitely on a new course - and it will need positive community folks as well. A lot of the posters in here are streamers of ESO, some past and others still present. I encourage people to check them out as well as I have. I commend you on working on keeping things positive in a time that its really easy to be negative @crazmadsci . I think you know from my perspective why it is so hard to be positive for the type of gameplay I streamed in ESO.

I have gone the route of attempting to expose issues I think ZOS needs to take a serious look at. But despite that, I find they will obviously need some positive drive in the community, and I hope you are able to find it with them. I didnt mind their advertising campaigns with higher profile streamers to reach new customers. I find their complete exclusion of their long-time ESO streamers from that entire promotional front to be offensive. That was ZOS basically telling all of the ESO streaming community they can simply pay their way around any level of negativity and advertise what they want the public to see.

ZOS needs to better engage their community - youre a good person for it, and some of the others already posting in this thread have made insane amounts of effort attempting to do so as well. Look at the amount of effort @HeroOfNone puts in trying to communicate ideas.. my god! But the thing is - communication only will do so much. They are not flexible enough or willing to make huge changes based on communication. What they can gain from communication is a better connection with their community, and avoid the toxic environment you speak of. That toxic environment is not a 1 sided creation. The toxic environment comes from months + years of neglect and broken promises/lies to the PvP community (lets be real guys, its mostly us). ZOS was as much a part of the toxic environment you see today as the people that have to experience it and realize it. They just didnt deliver, they let us down, and they refused to listen to ideas in front of them the entire time.

Hopefully they can engage you and make a better future in PVE. Until there is a drastic change from ZOS leadership, I firmly believe you will never see a change in PVP than what you have today. Leadership has to express a serious interest, a plan, and engage the most toxic players because getting it right is more important than getting your feelings hurt. But I wouldnt hold my breath on it. I dont say this to be negative - I say it as a message to players and to ZOS. If you really do want to 'fix PVP' one day, whether its 3months from now, or in a year from now.. youll have to prove it, and work hard. Because youve set yourselves back so far its nearly impossible to do it right now.

Again though, I honestly hope the best for you doing these things you mentioned, and some PVE stuff. Im thinking of streaming some ESO again down the line if possible but itd honestly probably be some form of RP for entertainment, because the PVP only streaming is just a soul-crushing experience.

Gidorick · April 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

The thing is @jkemmery , there have been PLENTY of well thought out, evenly toned, reasonable posts regarding the types of issues OP discusses... and yea, there have been QQ threads. Welcome to the internet.

Yup, lots of well thought out and well written feedback on these and other issues and... *crickets*

That means less of such feedback, with more of the angry, spittle-flecked rants to fill the vacuum.

I'm wondering what the difference is @tinythinker ... I hope it's not that she PMed them. Because if THAT'S what needs to be done to get actual communication and discussion with ZOS their mailboxes are going to fill up SUPER fast.

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH has claimed the title of most toxic streamer for ESO - you can place the blame accordingly and to move on to more constructive subjects.

Its a nice read crazmadsci - a lot of stuff to poke at in there. I dont think ZOS dislikes their game, or isnt proud of it. I dont get that impression from interacting with them or seeing them talk about the game at all. I get the impression they do like their game and are proud of their work.

Its the reason they tune out negative feedback as 'toxic' though as well. They have taken a lot of negative things I have said about the game personally and actually dislike me for speaking out on their product. That is because they do love the game they are making.. so I dont doubt their commitment to the game. There is progress to be made in certain areas, I just firmly believe PVP isnt one that will get a genuine shot. They will do 'things', but I really dont believe they are commit to doing much there other than whatever they can to quell complaints. We have done things as a community and individuals to attempt finding more of a common ground. Weve even had threads where we forced the issue of 'AOE caps discussion'. The developers werent even willing to explain the issue - so there was no way to even 'discuss' something that is widely opposed by the PvP community.

Theres a lot of good stuff to talk about in this thread though. I think the general theme is that this game has a lot of negatives around it right now from community portions because the game took a step back in PvP from a lot of peoples view points and the overall quality of the patch wasnt too sound. It wasnt just a bad thing for PvP only - Ive done my rant videos and heard a lot from PVE crowds on different platforms having different issues in a lot of PVE content as well... its pretty surprising to me honestly. But I think it resonates the fact that they sacrificed quality of their product to sell quantity, and as someone whos on the PVP side that isnt getting quality or quantity, enough became enough.

I dont discourage people from speaking up, working with ZOS, and making a better game. If you think I hate this game youd be misunderstood. Ive played it for years as well and expect a lot from an Elder Scrolls title - and I also know what the game is capable of. These make me expect great things. And from my perspective, they have actually taken steps away from that game I used to enjoy.

I dont think this game will ever be the PvP game that people experienced back towards release. Its definitely on a new course - and it will need positive community folks as well. A lot of the posters in here are streamers of ESO, some past and others still present. I encourage people to check them out as well as I have. I commend you on working on keeping things positive in a time that its really easy to be negative @crazmadsci . I think you know from my perspective why it is so hard to be positive for the type of gameplay I streamed in ESO.

I have gone the route of attempting to expose issues I think ZOS needs to take a serious look at. But despite that, I find they will obviously need some positive drive in the community, and I hope you are able to find it with them. I didnt mind their advertising campaigns with higher profile streamers to reach new customers. I find their complete exclusion of their long-time ESO streamers from that entire promotional front to be offensive. That was ZOS basically telling all of the ESO streaming community they can simply pay their way around any level of negativity and advertise what they want the public to see.

ZOS needs to better engage their community - youre a good person for it, and some of the others already posting in this thread have made insane amounts of effort attempting to do so as well. Look at the amount of effort @HeroOfNone puts in trying to communicate ideas.. my god! But the thing is - communication only will do so much. They are not flexible enough or willing to make huge changes based on communication. What they can gain from communication is a better connection with their community, and avoid the toxic environment you speak of. That toxic environment is not a 1 sided creation. The toxic environment comes from months + years of neglect and broken promises/lies to the PvP community (lets be real guys, its mostly us). ZOS was as much a part of the toxic environment you see today as the people that have to experience it and realize it. They just didnt deliver, they let us down, and they refused to listen to ideas in front of them the entire time.

Hopefully they can engage you and make a better future in PVE. Until there is a drastic change from ZOS leadership, I firmly believe you will never see a change in PVP than what you have today. Leadership has to express a serious interest, a plan, and engage the most toxic players because getting it right is more important than getting your feelings hurt. But I wouldnt hold my breath on it. I dont say this to be negative - I say it as a message to players and to ZOS. If you really do want to 'fix PVP' one day, whether its 3months from now, or in a year from now.. youll have to prove it, and work hard. Because youve set yourselves back so far its nearly impossible to do it right now.

Again though, I honestly hope the best for you doing these things you mentioned, and some PVE stuff. Im thinking of streaming some ESO again down the line if possible but itd honestly probably be some form of RP for entertainment, because the PVP only streaming is just a soul-crushing experience.

Awesome post!
Couldn't agree more.

dinogamer14miku · April 2016

This is a very interesting discussion and i agree about alot of the players leaving negative comments and such but will there ever be an online game that wont have ragers, game problems,and other things. It would be nice to see and im rooting for ya crazmadsci, you can do it!

jkemmery · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

The thing is @jkemmery , there have been PLENTY of well thought out, evenly toned, reasonable posts regarding the types of issues OP discusses... and yea, there have been QQ threads. Welcome to the internet.

And if ZOS just flat out ignores a thread because the person is using impassionate phraseology, that should be disclosed to the community so we can be aware that a thread full of seething rage will not get any attention from them. Well, no attention aside from moderation, of course.

Of course, we all know that isn't the case because it seems to be that most of the time an issue isn't addressed until there is a torrent of threads, posts, tweets, facbook posts, air-writings, ancient scroll decipherings, Ouija Board summonings, and bathroom wall scribblings complaining about a topic. Sometimes not even then.

You're not wrong. I suppose I'm hopeful that more attention will be paid, possibly due to her status in the streaming community, although I'm not sure what that is, I didn't even know who she was until today.

I WANT to be optimistic.

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2016

I had alot hope for this game after GW2, especially how Cyrodiil was lablelled as Darkage of Camelot 2. The OP said alot of things i would have said. But at this point of seeing the exact same problems for 2 years and the direction in which they go when they attemp to fix things...... I am just going to go ahead and wait for Camelot Unchained like most the rest of the Cyrodiil Endgame players and the GW2 WvW players

Deadfinger6 · April 2016

Vigarr wrote: »

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Can't read this much text, does it end with the person going to Beverly Hills, living with his uncle and hailing a taxi? Can OP please condence it into Mr Men book size as opposed to War and Peace.

Many words, very little said.

Ah OK. So apparently making a game that is played by 100k people at once from all over the world, where they can talk to each other and interact in real time, as well as create and manage a custom built character through 1000+hrs of story isn't straightforward. Got it. Cheers