Open Letter to the Community and Zenimax

Ysne58

I did get the banker assistant. I am constantly collecting stuff that I want to sell in guild stores. I did not see any need for the merchant.

SlayerSyrena

Wonderful post, @crazmadsci .

I've also missed the Tamriel Town Crier and community guests on ESO Live. I would love to see more members of the community featured, such as, Addon Developers, Fic Writers, Rpers, Streamers, Top Leaderboard players and etc ...

However, I've recently noticed ZOS tweeting some fan's artwork, so that has given me hope that perhaps they are wanting to really engage the community again.

As for the game itself, I am loving the new DLC's (Imp City, Wrothgar, Thieves Guild) and I'm amazed at the creativity that has gone into each.

I think ESO still has a bright future, I just hope they can iron out some of the bugs soon, such as the hot pink buildings and completely nude NPC's and players, (which is kind of distracting when you're trying to PvP)! XD

AlienSlof

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

This is an uplifting comment right there, and I do hope Zeni put their money where their mouth is. This is a fabulous game that has held my attention for two years and is showing no signs of waning. This game has helped me through some bad health issues and grief, so I have a soft spot for it.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

An extremely well written letter. You nailed so many points exactly. I will take this opportunity to say that I miss the emphasis on the creative community. I was fortunate enough to be in the community showcase half a dozen times with stories that I had written. (You missed my best work to date. I think I will post it on the creative part of the forums). Once the program was stopped, I stopped trying. There was no incentive to write about a living and breathing Tamriel anymore. I miss that aspect of the game.

And if I may, you are dead on about PVP. It is not about skill anymore but who can get the most numbers especially during the wee hours of the morning when the largest part of the players are asleep. It is who can kill the most players, not about playing the map. All it takes to become Emperor is to hold one piece of land, either resource or landmark such as a mile gate or bridge and farm the AP. Then after you are top of the leaderboards, then nightcap the inner circle. No skill involved. You may have never been to any of the keeps and still become emperor. The map itself means nothing. It is just a numbers game.

Johngo0036

@crazmadsci - THANK YOU for this letter,

I have over the last 2 weeks found myself getting more and more negative about the game...
I loved this game during BETA testing but could not figure out all the hype about PVP,

I pre-ordered the game as i have always love the elder scrolls games,
and of course beta just got me hooked on the PVE content...

I rolled my first real character, a sorcerer, after many attempts at others and stuck with her till she got to max level a YEAR later...
I did every quest, found every skyshard, killed every world boss and closed every dolmen....

I remember the 50 Minute long battle i had with Molagbal and how i ran around diving behind rocks just to try and gain some magicka.....

I killed him eventually and how elated i felt,

I then took my sorcerer into Cyrodiil for the first time,
what a feeling,

i was in awe of all that was going on......
I joined a guild and ran with them for a loooooooooooong time while i learned that the build i had was BAD...
I changed my build got gear,
learned crafting,
Rolled my next toon, a NB,
Took me 2 months to get him to max level and i loved the NB sooooo much,
Stamina based hide and hit build.. GANK build..

I now have many VR toons as you can see in my signature and i find myself going back to the PVE content i didnt do,
Like the undaunted dailies and reconnecting with that side of the game...

Yes cyrodiil is very laggy,
But when it gets unbearable i go do pve content just to calm down..

This game is like being in a relationship,
I love the game, with all its faults and i know that i cannot change it. BUT I love it anyway.

Thank you for making me think about why i love this game...

Orsinium, thievesguild are awesome content and i cannot wait for the next installment, HOWEVER i am not pushing for it and would prefer if zenni took the time to rather get their core stable..

Xellos77

Damn. Long letter.

At any rate, good on ya for taking the time to put so much effort into it.

X3ina

To the OP, i believe u should stop wearing pink glasses cause this game (i love it + there is nothing to replace it atm) is kinda big dissappointment. U still can get a lot of fun by quests. dungeons, trials, pvp etc BUT if you're mediocore player.
For top tier players: if u want to be one of the best in your role and class get ready to changing your real life and move into this game. Because every piece of gear is earned by endless grindfest (easiest one is vmsa master weapons (in theory, because u don't need any1 there xD)).
I'll give u a little example: Molag kena !!! - more than 100 runs, completed all the achievements related to this dungeon Vwgt and ... got zero headpieces (on sorcerer). Same goes to Vmsa.
Even if you're lucky enough to get them ... in 10 runs, that is only 2 pieces of 11 needed . Then u have to grind dailies because u need that monster set shoulder, Apart from this u have to grind another dungeon Vicp to get "mythic" scathing mage divines pieces. Why "mythic" - because grind is real. By the time u complete this 2 sets and one of the proud owners of the new master weapon u have to grind another thing called moondancer (arcane jewelry in gold quality).
Now lets count the time needed (as optimists we'll think that u'll get all pieces in 10 runs( but i know and everyone knows that it will never happen) with a really good and motivated group without sudden afk, crashes etc). Vwgt x 10 about 15-25 minutes each = 250 minutes including coffee and smoke breaks; 10 x dailies 8-10 minutes each = 100 minutes; Vmsa x 10 about 50-55 minutes per run = 550 minutes; Vicp x 10 x 5 about 25-30 minutes to complete = 1500 min (x 5 because u want 5 pieces right ?); 10 x weekly runs about 8-15 minutes depending on which trial is weekly (lets assume that u have 5x v16 characters and its AA/HRC only) = 80 min. Total time required to do this little ... not even a grinding ... 2480 min which is about 41 hours 20 minutes only. Pfffff, its not even a challenge for a nolifer toptier jerky grindbot will think most of u. But we have a real life and a family aswell xD (i even have a cat lol). This kind of action is reqiured to get 1 character up to date, but what if u have more ? Step two: most of the players is more than casual which can be seen even by the blind when Vicp or Vwgt is gold daily. So if u have no replacement for a missing person u'll start facecontrol (link achievement etc). Even when your friendlist is totally online u can't force them to do the dungeon that u want (democracy). Step three: god blessed RNG of this game ... i think there is no point to write my personal thoughts or feelings about this one. This is related to this patch realms only, when they introduce new patch u have to grind from the beginning cause meta is changing.
PvP ... i like pvp but lags are unbearable. The only plus i see there is that now u can get proxy det or whatever skill u need in 1 day + little extra money from selling VD pieces.
DLCs: Craglorn - was super duper great its true, new challenges like trials made most of us aiming to the best score forcing to change builds/tactics ... to become a better player.
IC - big grind zone for pveers in pvp area (Cracked Wood Cave 2). Most sets are BoP so money is made only from selling motifs and mats. Two new dungeons (grind is required) with little increased complexity.
Orsinium - Strange zone ... beautiful but aimed for solo players ... in MMO nothing else to say.
Thieves Guild - nothing important here (if you're not aiming for vMoL). I believe can't be sold without new trial.
P.s.: English is not my native language so feel free to point mistakes in my ...short answer

Jaronking

Vigarr wrote: »

puffy99 wrote: »

ESO is severely underfunded, or the development team/mgt team has some major issues at ALL levels of game dev.

I don't think income is the issue because this game has made them more money then a lesser company that puts in more work (and love) into their product.

Setting aside all the people that have subscribed since PC launch and all the people that sub today across all platforms (more then enough to pay their bills), think about how much money was made off of the console B2P launch at $60 per copy.
If we assume a modest amount of console players bought it, say 10 million players, that's $600 million right up front. I'm willing to bet that 50 million or more console copies were sold which puts billions in their bank...plenty of funding for a year of quality work and yet we still have a pretty poor quality product, hence why so many angry posters/streamers/etc. get so up in arms over something they're passionate about.

Dude they haven't even sold near that amount on all three platforms let only on consoles.You also have to remember it took about 2 months for the game to even sell a Million copies combining both the Xbox one sales and the PS4.So yea not during that well I would say altogether combined this game has sold 3-3.5 million copies.

Taonnor

Thank you for that post @crazmadsci !

wesly.backersb16_ESO

Nice , well substantiated letter!
But please don't skip class for a game-stream...

Psychotius

REzRyder wrote: »

To the haters:


Always lovely to see folks who have left the game come back to talk smack to those who have stuck with it.

If you feel like your opinion wasn't important enough to get the things fixed that made you leave, what makes you think it matters now?

To many of us, it really doesn't.


Happy Gaming, Y'all!!

Some of these people have left the game due to the toxic environment being discussed here. Once again, this seems like another pot calling the kettle something... We all have fun with this game, but the community drives the desire to play and when the community becomes tainted its hard to fire up that launcher anymore.

That being said, for myself, I still play this game and prefer to keep my grumbles to myself and to close knit friends. When you air out your dirty laundry for everyone to smell is what introduces bad odors.

Gidorick

X3ina wrote: »

To the OP, i believe u should stop wearing pink glasses

...

P.s.: English is not my native language so feel free to point mistakes in my ...short answer

The only note I would give you @X3ina is that the above expression, in English, more commonly uses the phrase "rose colored glasses " or "rose tinted glasses".

Now, I know the idiom exists in other languages like French and German and that the translation is "Pink glasses" but in English, using "rosy" is meaningful to the phrase "Wearing rose tinted glasses"

If we just use the color pink it gives us images of soft tones and pleasantness."Rosy" can mean bright, cheerful, and hopeful. It's a slight difference, but a meaningful difference as it relates to the expression. In English anyway.

What about in your native language? Does the color "pink" bring up thoughts of hopefulness, cheer and positivity? Do you have another word to describe something as being "the color of a rose" other than the word "pink"?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I do find it interesting the split personalities of so many people.

I remember ber a thread from a streamer not so long ago, everyone was up in arms. Who cares about streamers, why do people listen to streamers, f- streamers they just want viewers and more money.

And oddly enough here in a thread from a streamer, about how toxic the forums are some of those same supposed steamer hater are all in.

It is almost like people only want to hear measages they agree with and attack anyone who says something they dont agree with. And then pretend it is the other guy being toxic.

Oh well carry on blaming the other guy. Hope it works out for ya.

rotaugen454

At the end of the day, streamers are people too, just like the rest of us. Their opinion isn't more important than ours, but it isn't less important either. I can disagree with a streamer and not hate them, just like I can with anyone else. I'll debate points with people, I just can't talk to people who say anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint is an idiot or a loser. There are things that I am really hoping ZOS can fix, but I have been enjoying the game a great deal anyway. Other don't. I don't think they are stupid because they don't, the game as it is just doesn't work for them.

Septimus_Magna

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.

You say you dont enter Cyrodiil often, maybe you should check it out during prime time today. Find a large scale keep battle and check your latency and fps. You will probably find that its far beyond playable conditions. This is what bothers pvp players the most and its a perfectly valid point. This has been going on since 1.5 (October 2014!) with only some small improvements to performance.

Besides that performance issues there are very noticeable class and mag/stam imbalance issues, broken skills, unnecessary AOE caps that rewards players from stacking up etc etc. But thats an entirely different discussion.

The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? They literally only have to change some numbers, it would take a lot less effort compared to creating new content. There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons? They could add new monster mask sets to give players incentive to complete the vet modes etc.

The quality of DLCs is also quite disappointing, Orsinium was pretty good for pve-oriented players, IC was fun at first but had too little incentive from a pvp-standpoint (no pvp objective or captureable districts, instant respawn etc) and Hews Bane didnt add anything either.

Kalebron

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.

You say you dont enter Cyrodiil often, maybe you should check it out during prime time today. Find a large scale keep battle and check your latency and fps. You will probably find that its far beyond playable conditions. This is what bothers pvp players the most and its a perfectly valid point. This has been going on since 1.5 (October 2014!) with only some small improvements to performance.

Besides that performance issues there are very noticeable class and mag/stam imbalance issues, broken skills, unnecessary AOE caps that rewards players from stacking up etc etc. But thats an entirely different discussion.

The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? They literally only have to change some numbers, it would take a lot less effort compared to creating new content. There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons? They could add new monster mask sets to give players incentive to complete the vet modes etc.

The quality of DLCs is also quite disappointing, Orsinium was pretty good for pve-oriented players, IC was fun at first but had too little incentive from a pvp-standpoint (no pvp objective or captureable districts, instant respawn etc) and Hews Bane didnt add anything either.

Hew's Bane is my favorite new hang out spot. I want them to make Craglorn into a v16 zone. That that be super awesome. Is this even a possibility? I think maybe if they came up with rotating rewards in IC, people would be there more often for the quests. Once everyone has the new items that are drop, they stop search, and roll on to the next thing.

Inarre

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons?

This has been talked over in other threads. Since we will see removal of vet ranks most likely they would rather invest resources into that project, rather than redo all of the trials and dungeons to make vet and vet 16 content that will just become irrelevant in the next update.

Honestly in my opinion that would be a poor business decision on their part and a valid choice to criticize if they went ahead and spent resources on updating those when they could invest those resources in much needed other areas.

PVP is a valid point, one that has been made many times by others, and there are other problems as well, however I can see the sense in what ZOS has chosen to do here. We will just have to be patient.

Korah_Eaglecry

Inarre wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons?

This has been talked over in other threads. Since we will see removal of vet ranks most likely they would rather invest resources into that project, rather than redo all of the trials and dungeons to make vet and vet 16 content that will just become irrelevant in the next update.

Honestly in my opinion that would be a poor business decision on their part and a valid choice to criticize if they went ahead and spent resources on updating those when they could invest those resources in much needed other areas.

PVP is a valid point, one that has been made many times by others, and there are other problems as well, however I can see the sense in what ZOS has chosen to do here. We will just have to be patient.

Vet Dungeons arent going anywhere though. They may be renamed but they will continue to exist because while the ranks will be gone, the attribute points and skill points will not. Nor with the hundreds of CP points that parallel that leveling. Players will still need more challenging content to confront post level 50.

Sigtric

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Dont be rude to @crazmadsci - shes a long time ESO streamer/supporter and friend/supporter of mine.

[snip]

As she said, dont fight each other - because its misdirected hatred. None of the streamers advocate for getting rid of PvP, or not helping fix the issues that frustrate us. Community shouldnt be fighting each other over PvP/PvE issues - honestly, you are only misdirecting potentially useful words that should be directed @ZOS.

She needs to quit trashing people on her own stream before I can get along with this.

Waffennacht

I read the letter and was like: "And your point is?"

I enjoy the game, Personally don't give two @$!#s about the streamers etc...

Believe it or not, but the vast majoirity of console base don't even know there is a forum yet alone a community trying to make money by having people watch them play the game.

The idea of idolizing some individual because they have the time and money to sit at a computer and play a game is ridiculous.

This obsession of deltia, FENGRUSH etc is stupid, they have no more mental capabilities than any other person playing. The idea of someone quoting any other individual as if they are an credited professor is just silly. Their opinions matter not.

Oh btw, I would have never played, or would quit instantly if this became any more Pay to Play.

OrangeTheCat

I gave you an "awesome" because you clearly spent a lot of time crafting your letter, but phrases like the this one - "game impeding bugs" - make your letter a little less effective.

mrs_gibbs

I love this game.

Honestly I was shocked how seriously people take it, and how mean people can get. Seems like everyone is always complaining, complaining, complaining. The forums are especially toxic. (Probably because most of the people who actually enjoy the game are too busy having fun playing to come here and whine)

I used the group finder yesterday with my alt healer, only level 25. I was thrown into an all V16 group, that were mostly through the dungeon. They were fighting when I got ported in, and I sprinted to them as fast as I could. I got there just in time to watch one die before my heals could reach. And you know what, they insulted me, complained that I wasn't healing, and were very rude in general. Um, I wasn't even there. It was their own fault for going on without a healer. Just because I was a low level they automatically assumed I didn't know what I was doing, and looked down on me. I was sorely temped to just leave the group, since they didn't seem to want me anyway. No one else died throughout the dungeon. No one complains when I use my v16 stamblade, and I have to carry other people through. But heaven forbid if I want to try out a different class and haven't learned everything yet, or I'm not max stats.

I've seen a lot of hate towards people who don't run the perfect builds. The game is supposed to be fun, you shouldn't have to play exactly one way. I hate wiping over and over in a dungeon as much as the next person. But maybe offer constructive advice instead of just lashing out. Most of these people honestly just don't know what they should be doing. Who is suppose to teach them? (I think some sort of guide or quest to train new people for dungeons and dungeon roles would be a great idea)

There are lots of bugs, and it's frustrating at times, I know. (I can't run the WGT dungeon because it's bugged, and it's making me crazy)

But overall, I think the game is beautiful, and a ton of fun. I was skeptical, and didn't play for a while because of all the bad reviews, and complaints. But I finally tried it, and I've been hooked ever since. It has nearly everything you could want in a game. PvP, great story lines, beautiful graphics, etc.

What I think would really benefit the game would be if the devs took a step back from creating new content. Instead focus on fixing bugs, and improving customer support. This game has one of the worst customer supports. Right now they are so focused on churning out new content in a timely manner, that old bugs and little details are getting left behind. Each time more content is released, the list of needed fixes gets longer and longer.

Just a few months of only working on bugs would go a long way towards making people happy.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Id advocate for them removing PVP except maybe arenas and battlegrounds. Even then they would use about 75% of their resources on 5% of the game.

MrDenimChicken

Holy crap you are spending way too much time writing for a video game man. If the game isn't tickling your fancy than don't play it.

And this might sound mean, but they do not care about your letter. They care about making money.

bunnytrix

Not taken in by any of it.
Streamer known for trashing other streamers in cahoots with ZOS in a marketing exercise to make us all feel better about the game and let us know that "they do really care!"
Please, you may fool some 1st graders in school with this crap but personally, I'd like to see some action from ZOS and not hearing yet again for the 10000th time "what we can improve."

I'll tell you right now what you can improve ZOS. Try some REAL communication with us. Stop lying to the community about all the "fixes" you are working on. Stop taking months and months and longer, to fix things that any other self respecting devs would fix in hours or days. Actually fix the bugs and lag instead of avoiding the issues and lying about them. Fix Cyrodiil instead of stringing us all along with month after month of "we're working on it."

Actions speak louder than words, yet all I see from ZOS is words, and next to no action, except constant fluff in the crown store to grab as much $$$ as possible.

I agree on much of the OP but I have seen it all said before, over and over again by many people, on this forum. Yet ZOS has done nothing. And they will continue to do nothing while stringing us along with "working on a fix but no ETA."

Inarre

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons?

This has been talked over in other threads. Since we will see removal of vet ranks most likely they would rather invest resources into that project, rather than redo all of the trials and dungeons to make vet and vet 16 content that will just become irrelevant in the next update.

Honestly in my opinion that would be a poor business decision on their part and a valid choice to criticize if they went ahead and spent resources on updating those when they could invest those resources in much needed other areas.

PVP is a valid point, one that has been made many times by others, and there are other problems as well, however I can see the sense in what ZOS has chosen to do here. We will just have to be patient.

Vet Dungeons arent going anywhere though. They may be renamed but they will continue to exist because while the ranks will be gone, the attribute points and skill points will not. Nor with the hundreds of CP points that parallel that leveling. Players will still need more challenging content to confront post level 50.

Vet dungeons will exist but I imagine there will be changes to those also since the very thing that makes them "vet" no longer exists.

Again just pointless changes when the whole system will be revamped a few short months.

NobleNerd

Gidorick wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think we can safely assume they ignore seething rage posts.

I would hope not. Sure, don't respond to them, but it should create some internal discussion. Wouldn't you think @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO ?

+1

No matter how well thought out or not a person expresses their frustration it should never be blatantly ignored.

Coming from over 25 years in customer service background it is never a good thing to have that as a practice. All feedback, criticism and out-right rage can offer insight into fixing the issues at hand.

NobleNerd

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

wharf wrote: »

I agree with the Toxic Lord FENGRUSH. It's a lot easier to be positive about this game coming from a PvE perspective when you've actually had updates and are noticed by ZosE. After being ignored and labeled as toxic the only course of action is to quit or be loud enough to be noticed which is what I think many PvP streamers have resorted to. Nothing will change if Zos isn't able to accept criticism without closing threads or refusing to acknowledge very popular threads that are about subjects they don't wish to address.

Keep drinking that Zose Kool Aid OP.

LMAO yes. ZOS is totally ignoring the PvP community. Its not like they regularly acknowledge the issues in Cyrodiil. Its not like they agreed to go forth with making Arena styled Small Scale PvP for the small minority that threw temper tantrums in order to get their way. Its not as if ZOS has agreed to institute dueling.

I mean. They are SOOOO ignoring that section of the community.

The entire first DLC as well.

YOu mean the DLC that was originally planned and announced to be added when it was a sub game? The DLC that was suppose to be in the game and be part of the original game design?

Yes, thanks ZOS for putting it on the back burner because of console so we had to pay for what was suppose to be in the game "shortly after launch".

Anzriel

Inarre wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons?

This has been talked over in other threads. Since we will see removal of vet ranks most likely they would rather invest resources into that project, rather than redo all of the trials and dungeons to make vet and vet 16 content that will just become irrelevant in the next update.

Honestly in my opinion that would be a poor business decision on their part and a valid choice to criticize if they went ahead and spent resources on updating those when they could invest those resources in much needed other areas.

PVP is a valid point, one that has been made many times by others, and there are other problems as well, however I can see the sense in what ZOS has chosen to do here. We will just have to be patient.

Vet Dungeons arent going anywhere though. They may be renamed but they will continue to exist because while the ranks will be gone, the attribute points and skill points will not. Nor with the hundreds of CP points that parallel that leveling. Players will still need more challenging content to confront post level 50.

Vet dungeons will exist but I imagine there will be changes to those also since the very thing that makes them "vet" no longer exists.

Again just pointless changes when the whole system will be revamped a few short months.

I assume/hope the changes won't affect dungeons much. instead of being vet 16 they'll just be scaled for 160 CP and still be essentially the same.

MissBizz

Anzriel wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

crazmadsci wrote: »

@Inarre I am honestly scared of how this community is directing the future development of the game. The largest voices on the forums, youtube, streams are mostly all negative.

Most streamers focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


The pve side of the game is also lacking. There's only 1 trail and 1 solo instance that give v16 rewards for example. Why not scale vDSA, AA, Hel Ra and SO to v16? There are also many dungeons that just have a normal mode, why arent veteran modes added for these dungeons?

This has been talked over in other threads. Since we will see removal of vet ranks most likely they would rather invest resources into that project, rather than redo all of the trials and dungeons to make vet and vet 16 content that will just become irrelevant in the next update.

Honestly in my opinion that would be a poor business decision on their part and a valid choice to criticize if they went ahead and spent resources on updating those when they could invest those resources in much needed other areas.

PVP is a valid point, one that has been made many times by others, and there are other problems as well, however I can see the sense in what ZOS has chosen to do here. We will just have to be patient.

Vet Dungeons arent going anywhere though. They may be renamed but they will continue to exist because while the ranks will be gone, the attribute points and skill points will not. Nor with the hundreds of CP points that parallel that leveling. Players will still need more challenging content to confront post level 50.

Vet dungeons will exist but I imagine there will be changes to those also since the very thing that makes them "vet" no longer exists.

Again just pointless changes when the whole system will be revamped a few short months.

I assume/hope the changes won't affect dungeons much. instead of being vet 16 they'll just be scaled for 160 CP and still be essentially the same.

That is my guess. Instead of "veteran" meaning "for veteran rank" it will probably just mean "harder" or "once you have complete the normal one".