Open Letter to the Community and Zenimax

rotaugen454 · April 2016

DarkWombat wrote: »

I love it when people start off their topic with "Open Letter" which is usually a cheap way to get more recognition and a passive aggressive way to say "hey, my thread is more important than everyone elses"..

Speaking of forum toxicity...

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The only mistake ZOS made was making stones lootable. That killed IC for a TON of people. They thought they could go back to the old days where player looting was in games. Its not 1996 anymore. If you do that your players will either leave the game or not buy your DLC. I still played the game on and off but I was not paying a sub and certainly not paying for IC.

I agree Orsinium was incredible. Watching a video of the area on youtube is why I came back. I still didnt resub tho I just bought the DLC. With TG I resubbed because I like the way they are doing at the moment. If for some reason they decide to go back to the PVP DLC I'll just take a break for a bit.

Hmm. To each their own, I guess. The TV stones dynamic is what got me back into the game.

IC sales were very underwhelming. I dont know of anyone I personally knew who PVPd that not being able to loot stones would have killed the DLC for them. While the casual PVE crowd said "Uh no thx taking our money elsewhere". I think thats why Orsinium was so popular. I wanted to play but I will not pay to be farmed by people for the stones.

Sigtric · April 2016

/view

Esquire1980g_ESO · April 2016

crazmadsci wrote: »

puffy99 wrote: »

Great stuff and appreciate you taking the time to write that.

My Thoughts:

ESO is severely underfunded, or the development team/mgt team has some major issues at ALL levels of game dev.
There is no one DRIVING this technology and IP to excellence.
If Sony ran this like they did with the revamped FFX MMO this would be leap and bounds better.
ESO at times is basically a bug riddled joke especially amongst the players that play it, and the scary thing is, it is getting WORSE..

That was my concern, believe me. Honestly though I have submitted this through proper channels not on the public forums. I have received an answer for every one of my concerns. They do really really care.

What I think. This year is going to go through and fix a lot of things. DLC might be smaller in size but I think this time next year the game will be completely different. Huge Overhauls are going to happen/have to happen.

This is both our time and ZOS's time to shine. Get on Dark Brotherhood's PTS, submit your bug reports. Hell even tell them if you like the quests, does gear look silly, etc.

The more information, the more communication and more Transparent we both are will make this game the way we believe it to be. This is the best MMO, more in depth game, and one of the best communities I've ever experienced.

Nice letter, in fact I read every word.

But....., I've seen this kind of letter before, in fact many times, back in SWG from 2003-2011 from concerned players. Some ideas, SOE grabbed, some they didn't, some they didn't have the tech for, and some they thought that the player's idea and vision was not their vision. In the end, SOE's vision seemed to always win that race. Another limiting factor was the changing of directors, which SWG saw quit a bit in it's 8+ years live. EVERY new "Producer" seemed to have a different vision and worked towards different goals, changing the game on it's playerbase to fit their own version of what they wanted to see. This is just 1 of the SOE reasonings for the 3 major game-changing patches that were installed in SWG. 1st, was the CU, 2nd was the NGE, 3rd was Chapter 6 which basicly changed the concept of the game almost in it's entirety. Each time these "Huge Overhauls are going to happen/have to happen" SWG lost about 50%, or more, of it's playerbase until there just wasn't all that much left , even to pay it's IP fees to LucasArts.

Just about the same thing with STO in which I paid $300.00 for a "lifer" when it came out. Cryptic "NGE-ed" their game at F2P. The "ship count" on their mega-server went up but paying customers went down, probably more than SWG's 50%. That resulted in prices in their store moving from $20 a ship to now, some at $120.00 for ship sets and the only way possible to progress in their game is via the C-Store. I still have that "lifer" but haven't logged in for years.

Now, I re-started this game 3 months ago full well knowing that ZOS was going to take-out the Vet levels. I was here at launch but didn't make it thru the 1st 30 days due to "balance" problems, and not PVP, PVE balance. So, I went back to the SWG emulators, even ran a server myself for a while as Producer. From what I can see now in ESO, have a toon up to V12, the taking out of the Vet levels is a major change all in itself. I can still see no way to include all the crafting mats, levels, that are in the Vet levels/etc to maintain continuity for the playerbase after lowering max level to 50. It appears to me that if they wanted to "get the grind out of the Vet levels", a simple change in how much XP they required would of surficed and still provided the playerbase with continuity, all without a major change to the game systems that they didn't want to effect and were "working as intended". There has already been threads, over and over again here, on the NERFS that I've seen in patches the last 3 or so months that require players to change their builds, Professions, etc, some complete re-builds. From what I seen over at SWG, players will only "adapt" so many times before they start looking for the "cancel" button. That has held true from most all of the AAA MMORPG studios. The mighty Bliz even put out info on the largest reasoning that they lose subs is Nerfs, changes to professions, etc that come with their expansions/their PVP "balance" updates.

Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it. I can guarantee you that I most probably will not live thru another CU, NGE, C6CD and still continue to sub, myself.

crazmadsci · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Speaking of forum toxicity...

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

I have already been acknowledged and discussed with ZOS about what I have written this is a post more so for the community to see how I feel, ideas for both of us, and start an open constructive discussion.

BrightnessSyl · April 2016

Craz, (small example) I was nothing but kind to you and wanted to be your friend however from the moment I had contact with you all you did was create drama and trash talk EVERYONE. Why is this important? Well you can't talk about the community lacking if you are part of the problem. Your obvious issues with the Streaming side of the community have clouded your judgement and caused you to spread the very toxicity you are upset about.

That said I do agree with parts of this post and it's very sad that the points made are over shadowed by the toxicity of you.

~Pinky

MissBizz · April 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

This game can be very confusing to new players as there is a lot to learn, there needs to be correct information being sent to these players, not old tooltips that no longer speak true to the mounts, or completely incorrect loading screen tips.

New players in Cyrodiil trying to figure out how to leave is one of the most confusing ones yet. The entire Cyrodiil tutorial is pretty bad in general, and doesn't really introduce players to PVP well.

Haha. Yes. The first time I went to Cyrodiil I had to ask how to get out.

Sigtric · April 2016

One could lessen toxicity in the community by not repeatedly trashing other streamers on their stream. #justsaying

Senk3tsu · April 2016

While I agree with some of your points here...
Maybe you should consider the fact that you had a video in which you picked out every streamer and talked badly about them. Pot calling the kettle black much?
Don't call out the community for spreading toxicity when you have done it too.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

This game can be very confusing to new players as there is a lot to learn, there needs to be correct information being sent to these players, not old tooltips that no longer speak true to the mounts, or completely incorrect loading screen tips.

New players in Cyrodiil trying to figure out how to leave is one of the most confusing ones yet. The entire Cyrodiil tutorial is pretty bad in general, and doesn't really introduce players to PVP well.

Haha. Yes. The first time I went to Cyrodiil I had to ask how to get out.

"Which offers you this chilling challenge ... to find a way out! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Of course, there's always MY way...."

(Haunted Mansion-The Ghost Host)

NobleNerd · April 2016

BrightnessSyl wrote: »

Craz, (small example) I was nothing but kind to you and wanted to be your friend however from the moment I had contact with you all you did was create drama and trash talk EVERYONE. Why is this important? Well you can't talk about the community lacking if you are part of the problem. Your obvious issues with the Streaming side of the community have clouded your judgement and caused you to spread the very toxicity you are upset about.

That said I do agree with parts of this post and it's very sad that the points made are over shadowed by the toxicity of you.

~Pinky

Unfortunately I do have to agree. Out of many of the streamers I use to watch for this game Craz did have many times she would talk down to other streamers, especially Deltia.

That said many of the points are good, but will be lost because of the drama caused in the community.

Personally, I have (for the most part) left ESO as a dedicated supporter/player. My patience was on its last straw after waiting for 2 years to see mostly fixes to bugs, glitches & errors that should never have made it to launch.... then to only see more bugs, errors and glitches take their place every time ZOS tried to apply fixes. Then to end it all with little to no fixes for Cyrodiil!

Grigatee · April 2016

First Address this should be Core of community Topics on All are minds an most important a necessary finding that Craz has my fullest support , because ideas , vision an Crazs' views Spirit the entity of my own.

Grigatee · April 2016

Grigatee wrote: »

Craz Wrote:Things that used to be a part Zenimax as interactions with the community and no longer exist.
• Tamriel Town Crier
• Guild Spotlight
• Player Spotlight
• Hosting members on the community through ESO live
• Community Events on ESO live
• Community Ambassador Program
• Tales of the dead

These things listed above were reasons why I fell in love with Zenimax as a company. The Tamriel Chronical was one of my favorite reads at all time which hosted and showcased some of the incredible work of the community. It gave way to finding new incredible content of information before I really started writing my own.
The guild spotlight from day 1 of creating Ethereal Army my officers have always said this was a goal. Let’s be good enough that we get spotlighted on the official ESO forums! It did wonders to showcase the cool events the spotlighted guild did giving other guilds ideas and was wonderful for recruitment. I am actually a player who joined Mostly Harmless specifically because of how I appreciated and looked up to what the guild stated they did of crowning one of the 1st emperors for launch.

Player spotlights featured players with their unique builds giving a perspective on how players have fun without the need to feel like they are doing a cookie cutter build that is the mandatory meta.

Personally I wouldn’t know anything about the RP community if it wasn’t for the Zenimax team doing a personal interview with the Human Floyd. I loved when ZOS brought in new people to talk and discuss the game. Bringing in Beyond Infinity to clear DSA. Elloawendy and Deltiasgaming to showcase the undaunted pledges. It really brought contributors of the player base together with the developers and create all these really great programs.

Currently the coolest thing the Community Ambassador program forum post has a running gambling series on how long it can be before another post happens. The community amabassador program was a great way for us the community to thank our incredible contributors and give them a symbol of respect.
These are just a few I have listed of things Zenimax used to do and now no longer does that really didn’t just feel like a company selling boxes of a game to make money but build intimate relationships, foster creativity and inspire developers for new content.

These aspects although not directly profitable to Zenimax took tremendous strides to foster incredible friendships with Zenimax and its community. These friendships lead to collaboration of guilds, players and communities in ways that brought us together.
Grig Thinks "TBH This is so Spot on towards the Game being Strong , Focused Community .That , YOU may be the problem if you cant relate or disagree.
Secondary , I'd like to say New Base players DO NOT encompass the mentality of free -ride players , players of all Deepths play an returning players as well ."

tonemd · April 2016

As a PVP-mostly player, I sometimes feel like I'm being strung along. I know game fixes can't happen overnight and development schedules are set months, if not years, in advance of actual content release, but at the 2 year anniversary mark look at the state of PVP.

If this was just a tacked on portion of the game that players begged for because they were bored, I would understand it being unfinished and not being heavily supported. But PVP was advertised at the onset. It's the only reason I chose to actually invest my time into this game (not a big MMO player). It's a great part of the game when it's working well. And the only reason why I haven't left is because it is a unique experience and not done half as well anywhere else. Large scale, semi-real time AvA combat, that you can actually play on a controller, coupled with an MMORPG experience, with gorgeous graphics and TES lore. It's really hard to give it up.

But after two years of the same mechanics with worsening performance, watching all attempts to remedy the situation fail, watching the only addition to PVP be released unfinished and left to rot, and then reading how ZOS is working on it, and they'll fix it SOON (but no ETA), or in the "next major update", it's just starting to feel like they don't want to leave money on the table by just saying "we can't fix PVP" and will keep players on the hook until we all just leave in a huff.

I can't speak for the PVP community but a this point I'm all for a drastic course of action. If they want to do something that breaks PVP for a week or a month, DO IT. Hell, force everyone who wants to PVP to log into the test server. Or better yet incentivise them to do so. Let them carry rewards or AP or whatever back over to live. Then go crazy with changes on the test server to better the experience. The half steps and incremental changes just seem to be fueling discontent.

I won't even get started on the bugs on the PVE side of the game and with the 64-bit client. That failing is just...sad.

HeroOfNone · April 2016

I will say one thing on streamers bashing streamers:

I have a few streamers I don't like. I normally won't call them out on stream, except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish (hey! No name & shaming!). Despite this, I've been accused of bashing other streamers because I say I don't like streamers that do certain actions or for recommended folks don't follow another streamers build.

This is done by part of the viewing community that likes to troll streamers against one another. During one of @FENGRUSH ESOLive reviews he made a comment like "God damn it Hero" as a 2nd question was asked. That led to folks coming into my chat and saying "Fengrush hates your *** guts" and other comments. Luckily the youtube video was there to review to see the issue wasn't with me, but the softball questions selected for that week, and the "hate" mentioned was little more than a fabrication, probably just to get us to go at one another.

So I don't think the issue is with streamers alone, but a couple viewers that like to start ***. As for those I dislike, most have made their partnerships and left, contributing less than nothing to the community. I'm sure we'll see them again when they can't hold a viewer base in a larger pond, but let's just enjoy where we all are till then.

Loralai_907 · April 2016

I have watched your stream a few times. I think you do care about the game, and everything you are putting together is awesome! I think it is great that you are willing to work with new people in the game, that isn't always an easy task.

However,

I did not read through your letter, I can't read a book while I am at work. And like I said in regards to a certain long video out there, the general population lacks the ability to focus that long to things that do not necessarily interest them. I think you will reach a larger target audience if you make it less time consuming. (sometimes I don't short story well, so I know how it is)

Now, in regards to streamers publicly talking bad about other streamers. I think that is in really bad taste. And most streamers I watch seem to not do it. You (any streamer) don't have to like anybody, but you can be professional about it. I don't care if one streamer hates another streamer, and I certainly do not watch streamers to listen to them talk bad about another streamer. I am only watching because of the game they are playing, OR because they made it on my short list of streamers I think highly of. I don't care if they know who I am or not. I just like to see how some people do things, sometimes I learn something new and that always makes my day. And obviously, I tend to enjoy the personality they show on their stream.

I agree that the viewers can get out of control and silly. I really don't understand that, like is everyone 12 years old?? Come on now. Just act right. (mom voice)

Anyways, I have spent too long here already, back to the fun.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

hrothbern · April 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

+1

Averya_Teira · April 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

That is comforting to read. Now we only need to see actual facts and actions to back this positive thought.

Beerbong_Ginn · April 2016

HeroOfNone wrote: »

except on perticularly angry individual with a GI Joe fetish

HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SECRET GI JOE "TOYS???" *Hides in corner*

Kirameku · April 2016

Am I the only one who loves almost everything ZOS does? I mean I think they are really doing their best. You guys always find a reason to cry...

Averya_Teira · April 2016

ai.kiramekueb17_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one who loves almost everything ZOS does? I mean I think they are really doing their best. You guys always find a reason to cry...

You can't deny the fact the game has a lot of bugs and PvP (and sometimes PvE) has lag problems...

Beerbong_Ginn · April 2016

mommadani907 wrote: »

Now, in regards to streamers publicly talking bad about other streamers. I think that is in really bad taste. And most streamers I watch seem to not do it. You (any streamer) don't have to like anybody, but you can be professional about it. I don't care if one streamer hates another streamer, and I certainly do not watch streamers to listen to them talk bad about another streamer. I am only watching because of the game they are playing, OR because they made it on my short list of streamers I think highly of. I don't care if they know who I am or not. I just like to see how some people do things, sometimes I learn something new and that always makes my day. And obviously, I tend to enjoy the personality they show on their stream.

I agree that the viewers can get out of control and silly. I really don't understand that, like is everyone 12 years old?? Come on now. Just act right. (mom voice)

Anyways, I have spent too long here already, back to the fun.

Seriously though, bashing other streamers is just dumb. It shows at best a lack of good judgement and taste, and at worst betrays an underlying sense of bitterness and jealousy. I understand mentioning other people's builds as a source of comparison, but to blatantly call out people and accuse them of things, even if it's to accuse them of being toxic, doesn't help anyone.

Viewers tend to latch onto opinions that match their own frustrations, either with the game or with other people, and run wild with them (like Hero was saying earlier). And that goes for ANY streamer who has a regular following, not just the so-called "toxic" ones.

crazmadsci · April 2016

ai.kiramekueb17_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one who loves almost everything ZOS does? I mean I think they are really doing their best. You guys always find a reason to cry...

I love the company ZOS stands for absolutely. Things aren't perfect but name something in life that is. I just want to do everything in my power to be critical both on the community and ZOS so we can make this game everything we want it to be.

This was not a post to point fingers at ZOS, community members, or complain. This is a post to actually bring to light my observations and start a conversation and collaborate as a community.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom thank you for your response.

Yes I did meet with ZOS about this letter, yes I am very happy with the responses that I received. This was a post that many people have asked for me to write and post from my community.

I am happy for the future of the game and I will continue to pay 5 subs for this game on multiple platforms. I am loyal to this game and will continue to do so.

Muizer · April 2016

tonemd wrote: »

I can't speak for the PVP community but a this point I'm all for a drastic course of action. If they want to do something that breaks PVP for a week or a month, DO IT. Hell, force everyone who wants to PVP to log into the test server. Or better yet incentivise them to do so. Let them carry rewards or AP or whatever back over to live. Then go crazy with changes on the test server to better the experience. The half steps and incremental changes just seem to be fueling discontent.

Not drastic enough for me! Consider this: Apparently ZoS are now on a schedule where they churn out a quest zone every 3 months. It is about time they rebuilt Cyrodiil from the ground up then, reconsidering things like campaign objectives, scoring, emperorship.........you name it. Because the current setup, apart from its appalling performance, is just wide open to people gaming the system.

Gidorick · April 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

Having internal conversations and conversations with a singular member of the community doesn't exactly make the community feel like they are being engaged. It makes the community feel like you listen to a small number of preferred streamers and guild leaders... and since OP is a both of these things it really just seems like par for the course in that regard.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you're listening and communication with a few of us is preferred over communication with none of us but if you were seeking to engage the community to better ESO and ESO Live you could do things like create polls on the forum to get the community's response. This would, of course, come with the disclaimer and understanding that the poll doesn't automatically dictate ZOS' actions or the development of ESO.

One poll that could be pulled straight from this OP would be

What would you like to see return to ESO Live?
Tamriel Town Crier

Guild Spotlight

Player Spotlight

Hosting members on the community through ESO live

Community Events on ESO live

Community Ambassador Program

Tales of the dead

REzRyder · April 2016

To the haters:

Always lovely to see folks who have left the game come back to talk smack to those who have stuck with it.

If you feel like your opinion wasn't important enough to get the things fixed that made you leave, what makes you think it matters now?

To many of us, it really doesn't.

Happy Gaming, Y'all!!

jkemmery · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I hope that the devs and management are giving the OP some thought, as it is a well-constructed look at how things were and are. I'm hoping to see one of them jump in here and acknowledge it.

We certainly are. Craz was kind enough to send this to us directly - quite a few of us here have read it in full, and we appreciate all the thought and care that went into it. We've already had some discussions with her, and internally among the team, on how and what we can improve.

Had these things not been a topic of discussion until this post/open letter? I mean... pretty much all of these points have been a source of discussion on the forum somewhere at some point.

I think it is the fact that @crazmadsci expressed the concerns in an eloquent and well-thought out manner as opposed to just QQing on the forum that makes the effort (hopefully) a little more productive.

Justice31st · April 2016

Due to the Cyrodil Lag, this game is barely worth playing even without a subscription. Zenimax's PvP coders need to all be fired. One year later and the biggest problem PvP has faced is stlll here. What a joke.

IITHEOPII · April 2016

In my opinion the game never felt the same the moment they introduce CP and Vet ranks together, broke PvP and pretty much opened the gates to CP grinders. Lowbie PvP only just now removed CP, this took way to long I could count a million times during stream someone would say I PvP'd for 1 hour kept getting smashed by a lvl 40 with Max CP. <---- This is not fun for a new player, it breeds a new area of dislike for the game. Why change something that isn't broke. This game is fantastic and I can say I'm a 50/50 player but one must say true events that brought us to this situation if it impacted yourself which my comment above directly impacted my game experience. Less game mech changes to satisfy where one lacks, more focus on improving what we have now like gear, trial, dungoen updates keeping the game relative to the now.

I very rarely ever get involved in these forums as it's seems to be a never ending battle, I've been here since beta as most of you and feel the game at the moment needs some much needed love, attention and positivity pumped back into it, something I've tried to do for months even though I have my issues with the game I put it aside for the better of good and let my viewers make up there own mind about that game. One thing I cant stand is preaching and forcing your opinion on others, let them decide.