Asking for gold to leave someone alone when they are grinding in IC

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2016

When my friend and I were grinding in IC. We parked our v16s there and just grinded till others came. We killed anyone who showed up....it was great.

vyrusb23 · April 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

On what *** planet is it harassment to be killed by an enemy player in a zone where it is rewarded behavior to kill enemy players?

If you can't win, go do something else for a few hours. Because normally you'd just be dead and feeding the ants and maggots. What's next, are you going to go report that world boss for being too hard? That gravity for being too unforgiving? That treasure chest for being too masterful?

I mean, ***.

You clearly didn't read the post so I'll try to go slowly so maybe you'll understand.

He is not upset at dieing over and over. He is upset that the ganker is demanding him and his group to pay him 20,000 gold from each member of the group to stop ganking them.

So he is asking if asking players for money to stop being a griefer is against the rules.

In that case it's very simple. If it doesn't upset the OP that he dies over and over again, don't give the ganker the gold. Problem solved. Nobody is forcing anybody to give up their gold.

Mic1007 · April 2016

ZOS outlined the Justice System months ago, and made it clear how it worked. The gold-sink is an intended mechanic built in. In PvP, there is no way to go up to an enemy player or camp and directly demand gold from them except through chat, which is not the same as direct interaction.

Now would I support such a system bejng implemented? Different story altogether. It would definitely be a good way to start duels whenever he dueling system finally comes out.

Kildayen · April 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

On what *** planet is it harassment to be killed by an enemy player in a zone where it is rewarded behavior to kill enemy players?

If you can't win, go do something else for a few hours. Because normally you'd just be dead and feeding the ants and maggots. What's next, are you going to go report that world boss for being too hard? That gravity for being too unforgiving? That treasure chest for being too masterful?

I mean, ***.

You clearly didn't read the post so I'll try to go slowly so maybe you'll understand.

He is not upset at dieing over and over. He is upset that the ganker is demanding him and his group to pay him 20,000 gold from each member of the group to stop ganking them.

So he is asking if asking players for money to stop being a griefer is against the rules.

The ganker has every right to demand gold. HE IS IN A PVP ZONE! What is wrong with you people understanding this? He doesn't have to pay it. He can leave. He can die. He can go get friends to help him. He can pay it.

Get over it!

Vangy · April 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

On what *** planet is it harassment to be killed by an enemy player in a zone where it is rewarded behavior to kill enemy players?

If you can't win, go do something else for a few hours. Because normally you'd just be dead and feeding the ants and maggots. What's next, are you going to go report that world boss for being too hard? That gravity for being too unforgiving? That treasure chest for being too masterful?

I mean, ***.

You clearly didn't read the post so I'll try to go slowly so maybe you'll understand.

He is not upset at dieing over and over. He is upset that the ganker is demanding him and his group to pay him 20,000 gold from each member of the group to stop ganking them.

So he is asking if asking players for money to stop being a griefer is against the rules.

Demanding is a strong word to use. It implies that the ganker initiated the request. From what ive read in the OP's post, it was the OP that sent a tell "demanding" the ganker to stop killing him. Hence, the ganker responded with a request for gold, most likely in a sarcastic manner. Seriously doubt if anyone expects people to hand out gold in cyro to stop killing them.....

rokrdt05 · April 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When my friend and I were grinding in IC. We parked our v16s there and just grinded till others came. We killed anyone who showed up....it was great.

So much fun doing this.

I had 2 V16's parked to protect the grind spot, 1 DC/1 EP... that way if other DC showed up while we were grinding I would switch to my EP and kill them. Free Stones and we got the grind spot all to ourselves. If AD/EP showed up that we couldn't kill with our lowbies, I would switch to my V16 DC and kill them.

Ah, sewer politics... so much fun. Honestly, I think you got of easy. If it was me I would keep ganking you over and over... by the time you reach the farm spot again you will be worth AP and most likely would have already earned some TV stones again by the time I killed you for the nth time.

maxjapank · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Ah, sewer politics... so much fun. Honestly, I think you got of easy. If it was me I would keep ganking you over and over...

It's unfortunate OP, but this is the mentality of some of the people in the game. There are other areas where you can grind.

rokrdt05 · April 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Ah, sewer politics... so much fun. Honestly, I think you got of easy. If it was me I would keep ganking you over and over...

It's unfortunate OP, but this is the mentality of some of the people in the game. There are other areas where you can grind.

lol if you're going to quote me, use my entire quote not one sentence. He is in a PvP zone, where I will kill anyone that is not the same faction.

Had you finished my sentence there you would realize the reason why I would kill him over and over. Quit making PvP'ers out to be the *** because they actually PvP.

JadeNaria · April 2016

Runs wrote: »

JadeNaria wrote: »

To be specific for those who don't get it..........

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct?q=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&p=fce92e19-9893-469b-89b8-f994d19f90d1&ts=1460423058&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=AfterEvent&h=666bb92f2d51c4a81b66555d135ab2ba

Go to #2 B e h a v i o r

Then #2.5

Thank you and have a good day, bye bye now

How does it violate 2.5?

Player did not do anything there.

Or are you claiming just killing someone in a pvp area goes against 2.5?

Okay, once again but in a specific manner to facilitate what I am trying to construe since it is not registering. On a side note, we all should be on the same side on this and not on the side of this absurd proposition this person suggested to the OP.

2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy, Gender or any other protected category under Federal or Maryland State law.

https://youtu.be/H42jVUavXiA?t=156

maxjapank · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Ah, sewer politics... so much fun. Honestly, I think you got of easy. If it was me I would keep ganking you over and over...

It's unfortunate OP, but this is the mentality of some of the people in the game. There are other areas where you can grind.

lol if you're going to quote me, use my entire quote not one sentence. He is in a PvP zone, where I will kill anyone that is not the same faction.

Had you finished my sentence there you would realize the reason why I would kill him over and over. Quit making PvP'ers out to be the *** because they actually PvP.

It's not really a pvp zone. Though some small pvp engagements can be found, it's really a pve zone where ganking happens. And that's fine. I gank. You gank. We all gank.

But anyone who feels the necessity to continually gank the same person over and over....for whatever reason...is lame.

JadeNaria · April 2016

billybailey1982ub17_ESO wrote: »

So I was in IC grinding on mobs when I found this 1 player constantly killing me over and over again (HARASSMENT & STALKING). I asked for him to please stop killing me and to let us grind. He proceeded to tell me to send him 20K gold for each member in my group and only then he would leave us alone(THREAT SINCE SAID PERSON STATED IF THEY DID NOT GET SOMETHING THEY WANTED THEY WOULD CONTINUE). Does this sound like a part of the game that should be allowed to happen? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

And finally the above EQUALS ----> cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience.

ElderBugOffline · April 2016

thanks for the great idea! i will farm gold like this

and yes its not a harrasment or exploit

ElderBugOffline · April 2016

JadeNaria wrote: »

And finally the above EQUALS ----> cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience.

the same i can tel labout gankers like me

its disrupt my experience if someone refused to pay me!

JadeNaria · April 2016

ElderBugOffline wrote: »

thanks for the great idea! i will farm gold like this

and yes its not a harrasment or exploit

You should read what I posted a moment ago before you embark on such thing. But of course considering any of your characters can actually perform to the extent that they can hinder an experience for a group of players in such manner.

ElderBugOffline · April 2016

@JadeNaria also you need to read what i poste a moment before your msg

Knootewoot · April 2016

Im my eyes the OP is harassing the killer. OP is in a PvP area and asks someone who PvP's to stop killing.

Reporting the killer is stupid since he just replied on OP's question.

Stupid question, stupid answer.

You should be reported yourself and leave the PvP if you don't want to get attacked. There is 95% of PvE outside IC and Cyrodill.

JadeNaria · April 2016

ElderBugOffline wrote: »

@JadeNaria also you need to read what i poste a moment before your msg

Thank you for making something so easy for me to see I did not see before. That in a thread like this where there is an issue like the OP stated and there are ppl endorsing that said issue, then the thread is a waste of time to be in.

Congrats, you are very special.

[edit to remove bait]

Sheezabeast · April 2016

rokrdt05 · April 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Ah, sewer politics... so much fun. Honestly, I think you got of easy. If it was me I would keep ganking you over and over...

It's unfortunate OP, but this is the mentality of some of the people in the game. There are other areas where you can grind.

lol if you're going to quote me, use my entire quote not one sentence. He is in a PvP zone, where I will kill anyone that is not the same faction.

Had you finished my sentence there you would realize the reason why I would kill him over and over. Quit making PvP'ers out to be the *** because they actually PvP.

It's not really a pvp zone. Though some small pvp engagements can be found, it's really a pve zone where ganking happens. And that's fine. I gank. You gank. We all gank.

But anyone who feels the necessity to continually gank the same person over and over....for whatever reason...is lame.

It's not really a PvP zone? Wut?

The entire IC DLC was a PvP DLC with some PvE aspects, not the other way around. I actually find killing people over and over quite enjoyable. It's the same concept of killing the same npc mobs over and over... you are getting xp/loot from it, whereas I am getting ap/tv stones/xp from killing enemy players regardless if it's the same person or not.

Majority of these thread has had a lot of LOL moments though I must admit.

ElderBugOffline · April 2016

nice i already got 25k gold from one grin gtoup

thanks OP again

Cadbury · April 2016

ElderBugOffline wrote: »

nice i already got 25k gold from one grin gtoup

thanks OP again

LegacyDM · April 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

JadeNaria wrote: »

To be specific for those who don't get it..........

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct?q=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&p=fce92e19-9893-469b-89b8-f994d19f90d1&ts=1460423058&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=AfterEvent&h=666bb92f2d51c4a81b66555d135ab2ba

Go to #2 B e h a v i o r

Then #2.5

Thank you and have a good day, bye bye now

Just in case it's too difficult for some:

2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience.

Again... if you really can't tell that a behavior is bullying....probably means you have some social problems.

and yes.. I work in psych.

Wrong interpretation.

this clause is for people that are mentally harassing other players. I.e., discrimination, verbal assaults, sexual remarks, and unwanted messaging, and etc. stalking refers to someone using personal info to harass someone in rl. Stalking does not refer to a NB killing someone over and over in a pvp zone lol.

This clause is not meant for players that are killed in pvp and are "distressed" because they can't grind in peace in a pvp zone. That's ridiculous.

There's no harm in asking for in game money. Why? Because op has options and no one is forcing anything. There is no extortion because op has options. Op can politely say no, grind somewhere else, or bring friends and kill said ganker. What if ganker is role playing? You just reported a guy and ruined his immersion fir wanting to role play a heist in a fantasy game he is playing too.

Vangy · April 2016

A: Buy my kuta for 100K OR ELSE!
B: Nope, no thank you
C: Waah waah im going to report A for demanding gold!

Don't be the C mannnn... The B dude is much cooler

Lysette · April 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Take a picture of his chat, report him for harassment. It's one thing for him to just kill you over and over, that's okay. But when he's extorting you for it, you might be able to get him for that.

Not sure it counts as harassment, since OP asked to be left alone in a PVP zone. The PVPer named a cost for OP's request.

It's extortion, yes, but the PVPer didn't initiate the conversation.

In EVE online there were similar issue and it was solved there in this way:

The one being offended has to make a serious effort to avoid being offended, like changing the location significantly and a couple of times. if the offender is following him each and every time and his main target can be seen as this specific player, then it counts as harrasment, otherwise when it is not something personal, then it is gameplay. In order to count as harrasment, it has to be personal, just doing that to a random person and where the offended person is not making any effort to avoid it, is not seen as such.

So far how CCP (the owners of EVE online) ruled in such cases.

SanTii.92 · April 2016

@JadeNaria you cant omit that this rule like any other is subject to interpretation. Constantly killing a player cant be understood as harassment, as a fundamental part of most online games is the comptitive naturr they rest on. Op could have left at any point, but he didnt because he wantd to take advanage from a desirable spot. Well, so did the ganker. If you dont want to be killed, just leave. Entering a pvp area just implies that you are willing to take the risks it involves.

swirve · April 2016

billybailey1982ub17_ESO wrote: »

So I was in IC grinding on mobs when I found this 1 player constantly killing me over and over again. I asked for him to please stop killing me and to let us grind. He proceeded to tell me to send him 20K gold for each member in my group and only then he would leave us alone. Does this sound like a part of the game that should be allowed to happen? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

How many were in your group? If more than few you probably should stay out of ic if your that bad or get bothered by this.

Acrolas · April 2016

Look at me I'm harassing, threatening, embarrassing, or causing distress.
Just you wait until those *** cows start flying. There will be butthurt.

maxjapank · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

It's not really a PvP zone? Wut?

The entire IC DLC was a PvP DLC with some PvE aspects, not the other way around. I actually find killing people over and over quite enjoyable. It's the same concept of killing the same npc mobs over and over... you are getting xp/loot from it, whereas I am getting ap/tv stones/xp from killing enemy players regardless if it's the same person or not.

It was marketed as a pvp zone. And it could've been a great zone, expecially the city areas. But alas, it is full of pve mobs. They are not enemy faction npcs. They are pve mobs which degrade your armor over time. And that's why it is a ganker's "paradise."

I know some people specifically go there to find small pvp battles and to escape Cyrodiil lag. But not many people go there anymore, except for grinders, griefers, and gankers. You will not find many pvp battles.

Now I spend nearly everyday pvping in Cyrodiil. I enjoy killing the same people over and over, too. It's fun going up against people who are there for pvp. And I can accept enemy encounters to those who choose to do Cyrodiil quests and grind in IC. But to continually kill someone who is really only there to quest, not to pvp....well...I find lame. There is absolutely no "player vs. player" going on when one of the players isn't fighting back.

SlayerTheDragon · April 2016

Wait... "He proceeded to tell me to send him 20K gold for each member in my group"... you were in a group and he killed you all.

Eiagra · April 2016

I think an official ruling on this may be more valuable.

1.) Is paying "protection money" (and I use that term loosely, since it only protects you from one player) considered exploitation in PvP areas?

2.) If it is considered acceptable, what happens if the other party reneges on their agreement? They have the player's gold, after all, they could take it and laugh to the bank after stabbing them in the eye. Would reneging on the agreement then constitute harassment, griefing, or some other form of ToS violation?

3.) If it is not considered acceptable, what actions can a player take when confronted with someone attempting to exploit their grief in a PvP area in such a manner?

The main problem is that there is NO system in place to offer protection against a dishonorable lout taking a player's money and refusing to honor the bargain. As well, there's nothing saying the offending party can't take the coin, then tell their friend or guild-mate that there is a party of saps with more gold than sense and start the cycle again with a new face. That's just the problem you face in a PvP area, especially trying to do PvE in a PvP area.

I'm hazarding a guess here, but the most pragmatic thing is probably the following:

-- Do not pay money to a player in another faction for protection or to have them "leave you alone" in a PvP area. There is nothing to protect you if the transaction goes sideways, including the Terms of Service, as you're in a zone with active player conflict.

-- Do not attempt to exploit players and squeeze gold out of them because you and/or your group is consistently pounding another player or group in a PvP area. If not an outright violation of some rule, it is not in the best spirit of the game, and a rising trend of this form of behavior may ultimately end up in some form of punishment if there is enough complaints. (After all, you're not exactly helping your alliance by taking money from the opposition when it's convenient to look away, it's supposed to be your duty to use your sword to advance your alliance's agenda. You may find yourself suddenly without the rewards you've earned from your alliance's leaders...)