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Magblade New Spammable?
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No you're getting disrespect because you need to post stuff to back you up, not post fallacieshedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
I have no issue agreeing to disagree. I do have an issue with your last sentence though. The best 2 Nightblades? Just because you have a guide up with pictures does not make you the best. I also have a guide up with some pictures, and I consider myself to be decent, but by no means the best in the game. Do you mean the best in PvP? The best in vMA? The best in trials? These are all very different things. People who have top scores in vMA and PvP are amazing players that excell not necessarily at dps (although sometimes it is that as well), but at being situationaly aware which is the primary skill needed for those two activities. People that excell at trials have 2 things - the complete knowledge of their class with all its intricacies AND a good group. For example the highest I've pulled on my nightblade on the vMoL second boss was 27k, but this was at around the 40-50% Mark before the dps skyrockets due to adds. Our group at that time was unable to clear him so I never got a chance to see a full parse padded by all those adds, but I can tell you right now that especially on that fight with all those adds nerieneth would push us to 40k dps.
That's all well and good, but the two best PvE mag NB's (clarified for you) don't even reach the 4 set of adds. They kill that boss in 6-7 minutes. Which is the goal to be honest. That shows group dps and group stability. I saw your parses. 5 and 6 minute fights. That's when you get the first and second set of 3 adds to spawn.So you should have been at a good point dps wise.
6:50 fight from about 4 weeks ago from Kar Zuko. http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot2016stj6o5f4kp.png
You Couldn't Have Seen My Parses Since I Never Posted them...
I apologize. I thought you were the one who posted the screenshots of parses on page 1.
Look here is the thing, you come off as the aggressor since you came in and brought Kena into it....noone mentioned it...
This a a public forum post. All I said is that kena is better, and from all the testing I have done/been shown from other PC players, Kena is better. Then I get all this disrespect for having a different opinion.
#MOREORBS0 -
Vezuls✭✭✭
Unsure of what makes him elitist, but yes I don't like guild mates being insulted for no apparent reason when giving you good results and something about your class.
Look at his signature, now look at mine.
Quality reply.
Didn't Kar Zuko say somewhere he doesn't have nerinethhedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
I have no issue agreeing to disagree. I do have an issue with your last sentence though. The best 2 Nightblades? Just because you have a guide up with pictures does not make you the best. I also have a guide up with some pictures, and I consider myself to be decent, but by no means the best in the game. Do you mean the best in PvP? The best in vMA? The best in trials? These are all very different things. People who have top scores in vMA and PvP are amazing players that excell not necessarily at dps (although sometimes it is that as well), but at being situationaly aware which is the primary skill needed for those two activities. People that excell at trials have 2 things - the complete knowledge of their class with all its intricacies AND a good group. For example the highest I've pulled on my nightblade on the vMoL second boss was 27k, but this was at around the 40-50% Mark before the dps skyrockets due to adds. Our group at that time was unable to clear him so I never got a chance to see a full parse padded by all those adds, but I can tell you right now that especially on that fight with all those adds nerieneth would push us to 40k dps.
That's all well and good, but the two best PvE mag NB's (clarified for you) don't even reach the 4 set of adds. They kill that boss in 6-7 minutes. Which is the goal to be honest. That shows group dps and group stability. I saw your parses. 5 and 6 minute fights. That's when you get the first and second set of 3 adds to spawn.So you should have been at a good point dps wise.
6:50 fight from about 4 weeks ago from Kar Zuko. http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot2016stj6o5f4kp.png
Also no you would have gotten 4 sets of adds in 6 minutes
You don't really want everyone in some aoe build for that fight good to mix it up and have people focus adds and some bosses. So it's not really the best dps to compare on it I don't think
@Nifty2g No, it's not the best to compare DPS as there are a lot of things that are going on during that fight that can alter your DPS greatly. The point of me posting the parses was to contribute my testing towards using FP w/ Nerien'eth and not have "best" DPS. If I wanted to prove I could match DPS I'd do it on a more common boss with no adds or a fight that is very static. Vezuls keeps saying he is done arguing yet he keeps replying. The whole point of this thread also has nothing even to do with using Kena. Leave it to a console player who will probably never get to that boss to keep replying based on someone elses theorycrafting and not their own.
LOL. You really are the stereotypical PC elitist. FYI I'm in the console guild that's closest to beating Vet Maw of Lorkhaj. We kill the 2nd boss about as fast as the video Fear Turbo posted. Sooooo we've made it past that boss. And you want to know something else?
We have the final boss down to less than half health. Maybe you should get your facts in check before you try talking trash, it makes you look even more elitist and ignorant.
Now that you know we're competing with you, I'm curious what your next reply is. Can't wait for the "Console Mobs have less health and do less damage than the one's on PC" comment. Always makes me laugh
.
Yes, the post was about Neri, I'm simply saying Kena is better. I mean, Mashinate has said it and even after this thread still thinks Kena is better, so until someone tests Kena AND Neri multiple times and shows me consistent higher parses with Neri, Kena will be what I run. The bottom line is you're getting mad because someone disagrees with your OPINION.
If I am stubborn, you are also. You kept telling me to post pics earlier, yet you post nothing defending Neri is best in slot.
How am I elitist, nothing I've said is elitist, by definition you are the elitist or just a stubborn person. Anyway to your next point, I looked all over for this video, there is no thread on the forums that I could find and there is no videos on youtube, so why would I take your word for it? I can see your comments on Fear Turbos video, I highly doubt your group on console is fully minmaxed with buff/debuff rotations required from tanks and healers, just putting that out there.
As for final boss, we haven't raided in 2 weeks, did our first raid last night and found out how to deal with lunar cycles. Lowest that boss has gotten to is 43% I believe right before final pad and we died
This is about math, not he said she said ***, you're not posting anything to back yourself only the words of others.
No I'm not getting mad, I just don't understand your thinking lol. I haven't asked you to post pictures I'm calling your whole argument a fallacy because you show no proof, I couldn't care less if you posted or not. Also what do I need to post pictures about, it's all in the OP dummy
If you look at my reply, it was addressed to @rokrdt05... The reason you're tagged is because in his quote, he tagged you. My video's not on youtube. I said we killed the boss as fast as you did. Please, make sure you know who is being addressed before you get upset.
Our group has all the buffs and debuffs, but again, this is the mentality many PC players have where console players can't be as good as them. Sigh....
And you resort to name calling. Nifty.. Really. I'm the dummy but you're the one replying to a post addressed to someone else thinking it's about you...
He's in my guilds
Side note, please show proof of killing second boss let alone as fast as us.
So because I call a member of your guild elitist, it means I also called you elitist? The thing is, I don't care if you believe me. But if you want proof find someone with an xbox and look at my clips. I have a video of us killing the 2nd boss. True Vezuls is my Gamertag
I haven't recorded anything on the last boss for tactics reason, but next time we go in I'll see if it's okay for me to screenshot the final bosses health.
No, I'm not looking for your stuff, post them here I doubt they exist if you're telling me to go look for them. Just post them here lol
There's no real strategy for final boss apart from the lunar cycle mechanic and the tanks and the supposed execute phase but we're not quite there yet. That's mostly apart from execute fairly simple to figure out though.
Are we talking about the same thing? Veteran not normal?
For no reason?
"Leave it to a console player who will probably never get to that boss to keep replying based on someone elses theorycrafting and not their own."
That doesn't sound elitist to you? Lol. Turn a blind eye :P
Have fun guys.3 -
Polysemy✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
I have no issue agreeing to disagree. I do have an issue with your last sentence though. The best 2 Nightblades? Just because you have a guide up with pictures does not make you the best. I also have a guide up with some pictures, and I consider myself to be decent, but by no means the best in the game. Do you mean the best in PvP? The best in vMA? The best in trials? These are all very different things. People who have top scores in vMA and PvP are amazing players that excell not necessarily at dps (although sometimes it is that as well), but at being situationaly aware which is the primary skill needed for those two activities. People that excell at trials have 2 things - the complete knowledge of their class with all its intricacies AND a good group. For example the highest I've pulled on my nightblade on the vMoL second boss was 27k, but this was at around the 40-50% Mark before the dps skyrockets due to adds. Our group at that time was unable to clear him so I never got a chance to see a full parse padded by all those adds, but I can tell you right now that especially on that fight with all those adds nerieneth would push us to 40k dps.
That's all well and good, but the two best PvE mag NB's (clarified for you) don't even reach the 4 set of adds. They kill that boss in 6-7 minutes. Which is the goal to be honest. That shows group dps and group stability. I saw your parses. 5 and 6 minute fights. That's when you get the first and second set of 3 adds to spawn.So you should have been at a good point dps wise.
6:50 fight from about 4 weeks ago from Kar Zuko. http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot2016stj6o5f4kp.png
You Couldn't Have Seen My Parses Since I Never Posted them...
I apologize. I thought you were the one who posted the screenshots of parses on page 1.
Look here is the thing, you come off as the aggressor since you came in and brought Kena into it....noone mentioned it...
This a a public forum post. All I said is that kena is better, and from all the testing I have done/been shown from other PC players, Kena is better. Then I get all this disrespect for having a different opinion.
Lol literally everyone combatting you right now is in my guild, love it. Ive said it to you before so ill say it again... you have neither the tools nor the experience in this game to make the claims you make... people who have been doing what you think you are doing for 2 years plus and have been doing it with tools to give them the proper information not estimations based on time it takes to kill... which is going to be largely inaccurate... Word of advice you can try to be good and hell maybe you even get there (especially when your humping the legs of hodor and the like) but do not make any comments about whether or not something is better then something else... in the PC world the only time we change our builds is when we are testing something or we have hard data that suggests something is better. Asarye for example massive theory crafter he is the one that creates the builds hodors uses and ive even suggested some things to him about how the meta will change with the new gear and he has confirmed that to me with hard data which is something you dont have access to simply and truly because you choose to play on consoleEdited by Polysemy on April 10, 2016 10:00PMGrade A ***2 -
Vezuls✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
I have no issue agreeing to disagree. I do have an issue with your last sentence though. The best 2 Nightblades? Just because you have a guide up with pictures does not make you the best. I also have a guide up with some pictures, and I consider myself to be decent, but by no means the best in the game. Do you mean the best in PvP? The best in vMA? The best in trials? These are all very different things. People who have top scores in vMA and PvP are amazing players that excell not necessarily at dps (although sometimes it is that as well), but at being situationaly aware which is the primary skill needed for those two activities. People that excell at trials have 2 things - the complete knowledge of their class with all its intricacies AND a good group. For example the highest I've pulled on my nightblade on the vMoL second boss was 27k, but this was at around the 40-50% Mark before the dps skyrockets due to adds. Our group at that time was unable to clear him so I never got a chance to see a full parse padded by all those adds, but I can tell you right now that especially on that fight with all those adds nerieneth would push us to 40k dps.
That's all well and good, but the two best PvE mag NB's (clarified for you) don't even reach the 4 set of adds. They kill that boss in 6-7 minutes. Which is the goal to be honest. That shows group dps and group stability. I saw your parses. 5 and 6 minute fights. That's when you get the first and second set of 3 adds to spawn.So you should have been at a good point dps wise.
6:50 fight from about 4 weeks ago from Kar Zuko. http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot2016stj6o5f4kp.png
You Couldn't Have Seen My Parses Since I Never Posted them...
I apologize. I thought you were the one who posted the screenshots of parses on page 1.
Look here is the thing, you come off as the aggressor since you came in and brought Kena into it....noone mentioned it...
This a a public forum post. All I said is that kena is better, and from all the testing I have done/been shown from other PC players, Kena is better. Then I get all this disrespect for having a different opinion.
Lol literally everyone combatting you right now is in my guild, love it. Ive said it to you before so ill say it again... you have neither the tools nor the experience in this game to make the claims you make... people who have been doing what you think you are doing for 2 years plus and have been doing it with tools to give them the proper information not estimations based on time it takes to kill... which is going to be largely inaccurate... Word of advice you can try to be good and hell maybe you even get there (especially when your humping the legs of hodor and the like) but do not make any comments about whether or not something is better then something else... in the PC world the only time we change our builds is when we are testing something or we have hard data that suggests something is better. Asarye for example massive theory crafter he is the one that creates the builds hodors uses and ive even suggested some things to him about how the meta will change with the new gear and he has confirmed that to me with hard data which is not something you dont have access to simply and truly because you choose to play on console
K0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
You can turn on damage numbers on console. Not as informative as a DPS chart, but it's something. Also, since I turned it on, my screen just gets covered in numbers (DoT AoE). Can make it difficult to target enemies for tanking.
It somewhere in settings. At work so I can't check where, but definitely there. Maybe in the health section.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
I have no issue agreeing to disagree. I do have an issue with your last sentence though. The best 2 Nightblades? Just because you have a guide up with pictures does not make you the best. I also have a guide up with some pictures, and I consider myself to be decent, but by no means the best in the game. Do you mean the best in PvP? The best in vMA? The best in trials? These are all very different things. People who have top scores in vMA and PvP are amazing players that excell not necessarily at dps (although sometimes it is that as well), but at being situationaly aware which is the primary skill needed for those two activities. People that excell at trials have 2 things - the complete knowledge of their class with all its intricacies AND a good group. For example the highest I've pulled on my nightblade on the vMoL second boss was 27k, but this was at around the 40-50% Mark before the dps skyrockets due to adds. Our group at that time was unable to clear him so I never got a chance to see a full parse padded by all those adds, but I can tell you right now that especially on that fight with all those adds nerieneth would push us to 40k dps.
That's all well and good, but the two best PvE mag NB's (clarified for you) don't even reach the 4 set of adds. They kill that boss in 6-7 minutes. Which is the goal to be honest. That shows group dps and group stability. I saw your parses. 5 and 6 minute fights. That's when you get the first and second set of 3 adds to spawn.So you should have been at a good point dps wise.
6:50 fight from about 4 weeks ago from Kar Zuko. http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot2016stj6o5f4kp.png
You Couldn't Have Seen My Parses Since I Never Posted them...
I apologize. I thought you were the one who posted the screenshots of parses on page 1.
Look here is the thing, you come off as the aggressor since you came in and brought Kena into it....noone mentioned it...
This a a public forum post. All I said is that kena is better, and from all the testing I have done/been shown from other PC players, Kena is better. Then I get all this disrespect for having a different opinion.
Lol literally everyone combatting you right now is in my guild, love it. Ive said it to you before so ill say it again... you have neither the tools nor the experience in this game to make the claims you make... people who have been doing what you think you are doing for 2 years plus and have been doing it with tools to give them the proper information not estimations based on time it takes to kill... which is going to be largely inaccurate... Word of advice you can try to be good and hell maybe you even get there (especially when your humping the legs of hodor and the like) but do not make any comments about whether or not something is better then something else... in the PC world the only time we change our builds is when we are testing something or we have hard data that suggests something is better. Asarye for example massive theory crafter he is the one that creates the builds hodors uses and ive even suggested some things to him about how the meta will change with the new gear and he has confirmed that to me with hard data which is not something you dont have access to simply and truly because you choose to play on console
K
this guyEdited by Nifty2g on April 10, 2016 9:16PM#MOREORBS0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I use it too, but there is no damage report, you'd have to record a full fight, get all your accurate numbers, calculate your rotation times, calculate what damage did what based on your video in slow motion and then number of hits, max crit hit, non crit hit, your crit multiplier and so forth.CaptainBeerDude wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
You can turn on damage numbers on console. Not as informative as a DPS chart, but it's something. Also, since I turned it on, my screen just gets covered in numbers (DoT AoE). Can make it difficult to target enemies for tanking.
It somewhere in settings. At work so I can't check where, but definitely there. Maybe in the health section.
Sounds almost near impossible where you could go on PC and then get a damage report and have all the stuff in right there for yourself.
Now do you see why saying "I've tested it on bloodspawn" seems a little silly and unreliable source of information.#MOREORBS0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭
I use it too, but there is no damage report, you'd have to record a full fight, get all your accurate numbers, calculate your rotation times, calculate what damage did what based on your video in slow motion and then number of hits, max crit hit, non crit hit, your crit multiplier and so forth.CaptainBeerDude wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I'll copy and paste my post. However, Force Pulse > Funnel for sure. I still believe using Neri over Kena is a big DPS loss, but to each his own. Force Pulse is not better because of more procs on neri, it's a better skill in general. Force Pulse does more damage than Funnel, not on tooltip, but on actual mobs.
Anyway, this is my post on tamriel foundry:
Tested Force Pulse in VMoL last night on all but the final boss. (I’m not confident enough in many things to make the switch). Things I noticed
1. Definitely felt like a lot more damage (with and without Scathing Mage)
2. Easily sustainable with siphoning attacks every other twisting application (around 32 seconds; so about a high 40ish% siphoning uptime). I had 75%+ resources at all times which was crazy. I’m thinking I may not even need siphoning attacks. I did use siphoning every add spawn 2+ on second boss though.
3. The ulti gen you miss from funnel every 4 seconds is kind of noticeable, but not noticeable enough. I had an ulti (even Kena’d most of the time) for every add spawn phase on Vashai and Skinrai, which is all the ulti gen you really need.
4. I noticed some of the damage I was taking, but it wasn’t anyting that would cause a death. Just not used to the health bar dropping much :P
From my assessments, Force Pulse > Funnel in 2 scenarios
1. If you use Swallow Soul
2. If your team is good AND comfortable enough to only trust the healers for heals.joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Lalala. If your using siphoning skills u shouldn't even be using nerieneth. You should be using malubeth or kena with double la. With your set up your not only losing self heals for yourself but for other group members too. There's no reason why you can't be both dps and heals.
Nerieneth is better than Kena silly:) it deals 5-9% of my overall damage AND i get to medium weave non stop...oh and my resources are full:)
Kena is much better than Neri in ST fights. If not, show me some proof. Because it's general knowledge now that kena is BiS for most magic builds. Medium weaving is worse than Light Weaving from what I have seen, especially on a Magic NB. Less Merciless Resolve procs because it takes longer to medium weave than Light weave.
If You Think That Medium Weaving Is worse than Light Weaving then I have nothing more to add...merciless is a skill that has to be pressed two times (if you're aware), Assasin's will hits slightly harder than 2 swallow souls. Each time you press the button to activate merciless you are not using swallow soul. Since the animation on the two skills is the same you are gaining a slight advantage by using assasins will since it does slightly more damage and is free....
I've tested it. Unfortunately, I'm on console so I can't offer DPS reports, but I have killed Bloodspawn multiple times (Our dps test) and medium weaving was always about 2-5 seconds behind. (roughly 1-2k DPS). To avoid any further arguments, let's just agree to disagree. I get better results with Kena. Somehow you get better results with Neri. However, the best 2 magic NB's both agree Kena is better soooo
You can turn on damage numbers on console. Not as informative as a DPS chart, but it's something. Also, since I turned it on, my screen just gets covered in numbers (DoT AoE). Can make it difficult to target enemies for tanking.
It somewhere in settings. At work so I can't check where, but definitely there. Maybe in the health section.
Sounds almost near impossible where you could go on PC and then get a damage report and have all the stuff in right there for yourself.
Now do you see why saying "I've tested it on bloodspawn" seems a little silly and unreliable source of information.
Near impossible yes. But you can work out a rough range that your DPS is in. My Stam Sorc tank is getting between 5-15 depending on adds and blocking/dodging etc. Not perfect at all, but better than nothing.
I miss the DCUO recap screen at the end of an instance.
EDIT: sorry if I derailed. I just popped in because my baby NB uses funnel as his spammable and I wanted to see what this other option might be.Edited by CaptainBeerDude on April 11, 2016 2:24AM0 -
Refuse2GrowUp✭✭✭✭✭This thread has been massively derailed.
I look fwd to seeing theory crafts and numbers tests. We on console, quite unfortunately might I add (since the devs don't give us the tools) are indeed reliant upon the PC community for a lot of the testing. And, as many people have pointed out, what works for one person may not work as well for another; one might have more success with a certain set-up than another player will. Plus, we don't all build for single target DPS. With vMoL having the adds pulls that it does, it is nice to have some team members better config'd for add pulls and Skoria & Narieneths certainly helps with that. It really isn't worth debating, especially since that what not the OPs original intent with the thread.
Furthermore, the PC vs console BS is ridiculous. For those PC players who say console is merely kiddies who are way behind the times and completely incapable of being competent without addons, please realize top scores are very close to those of PC for vMSA, DSA, and the old trials. In fact, there are constantly back and forths where a console player will beat a PC high score then lose it again. As for vMoL, there are console teams running it. I know a couple that are working on the last boss, and a couple more that are currently working on the second boss...yes veteran; yes v16. Console players are doing it without the addons, not because we want to but because we are forced to. We would all love to have the addons and it would be great if the devs gave us more tools, but until then we will make do with what we have and do the best we can as is. Yes, we owe plenty of our success to the PC community, no one is debating that, but the console bashing is almost as ridiculous as the derailment of this thread.
We all love the same game~PS4 NA Server
CP160 DK Firemage
CP160 StamSorc
CP160 Templar Healer
CP160 Stam NB
CP160 Magica Sorc
Cp160 Stamplar
CP160 Magicka NB
CP160 DK Tank
CP160 Stam DK
CP160 Mag Templar
CP160 Blazing Shield Templar
EP Loyalist7 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »This thread has been massively derailed.
I look fwd to seeing theory crafts and numbers tests. We on console, quite unfortunately might I add (since the devs don't give us the tools) are indeed reliant upon the PC community for a lot of the testing. And, as many people have pointed out, what works for one person may not work as well for another; one might have more success with a certain set-up than another player will. Plus, we don't all build for single target DPS. With vMoL having the adds pulls that it does, it is nice to have some team members better config'd for add pulls and Skoria & Narieneths certainly helps with that. It really isn't worth debating, especially since that what not the OPs original intent with the thread.
Furthermore, the PC vs console BS is ridiculous. For those PC players who say console is merely kiddies who are way behind the times and completely incapable of being competent without addons, please realize top scores are very close to those of PC for vMSA, DSA, and the old trials. In fact, there are constantly back and forths where a console player will beat a PC high score then lose it again. As for vMoL, there are console teams running it. I know a couple that are working on the last boss, and a couple more that are currently working on the second boss...yes veteran; yes v16. Console players are doing it without the addons, not because we want to but because we are forced to. We would all love to have the addons and it would be great if the devs gave us more tools, but until then we will make do with what we have and do the best we can as is. Yes, we owe plenty of our success to the PC community, no one is debating that, but the console bashing is almost as ridiculous as the derailment of this thread.
We all love the same game~
Kumbaya0 -
timmayyyboy✭✭So i just want to clarify @hedna123b14_ESO and @Nifty2g that force pulse is generally better with neri? I dont want to cause another person to crash in here like a mac truck and derail this thread again and i understand that people play differently and that kena might be better for some and not for others depending on how you play and all that jazz. But for me, i trust certain PC player's that have tested again and again with hard evidence to back it up. So force pulse with neri and funnel health with kena? For the most general part0
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rokrdt05✭✭✭✭timmayyyboy wrote: »So i just want to clarify @hedna123b14_ESO and @Nifty2g that force pulse is generally better with neri? I dont want to cause another person to crash in here like a mac truck and derail this thread again and i understand that people play differently and that kena might be better for some and not for others depending on how you play and all that jazz. But for me, i trust certain PC player's that have tested again and again with hard evidence to back it up. So force pulse with neri and funnel health with kena? For the most general part
If you're using Nerien'eth, then yes you want to use Force Pulse.
The testing above is mine, and it was done in reference to a theory posted by @liv3mind on @hedna123b14_ESO theory crafted build/rotation for NB's. If you read his thread though, he does give a lot of math to say why FP comes out on top of Swallow/Funnel regardless of what set you're using. However, if you are simply wanting the hardest hitting ability without using Nerien'eth and instead using Kena, I would go with Concealed Weapons. The only down side being that it is melee.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
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Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP1 -
terrasight✭✭✭With FP we're talking about Raids or Groups with heal, right?
Solo I love my FH... even with Neri...Hekat'e / Hel'a Niflheim - Sorc / Necro - PS5 EU0 -
timmayyyboy✭✭timmayyyboy wrote: »So i just want to clarify @hedna123b14_ESO and @Nifty2g that force pulse is generally better with neri? I dont want to cause another person to crash in here like a mac truck and derail this thread again and i understand that people play differently and that kena might be better for some and not for others depending on how you play and all that jazz. But for me, i trust certain PC player's that have tested again and again with hard evidence to back it up. So force pulse with neri and funnel health with kena? For the most general part
If you're using Nerien'eth, then yes you want to use Force Pulse.
The testing above is mine, and it was done in reference to a theory posted by @liv3mind on @hedna123b14_ESO theory crafted build/rotation for NB's. If you read his thread though, he does give a lot of math to say why FP comes out on top of Swallow/Funnel regardless of what set you're using. However, if you are simply wanting the hardest hitting ability without using Nerien'eth and instead using Kena, I would go with Concealed Weapons. The only down side being that it is melee.
Apologies i didnt realize it was your testing. And thanks for the response0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭terrasight wrote: »With FP we're talking about Raids or Groups with heal, right?
Solo I love my FH... even with Neri...
Yup FP only if you have a healer0 -
iam117✭✭✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too hahaEdited by iam117 on April 11, 2016 6:12PM<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
This!0 -
pretzl✭✭✭✭Interesting stuff, albeit CSH/Mundus bois are snappy lately
On a more related note; is FP > Swallow just on a dunmer or on any class? I can understand the Kena < Nerien'eth part just fine, but FP specifically. Is it still better if you're, say, a wood elf?
CP | Chronically Capped
Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting stuff, albeit CSH/Mundus bois are snappy lately
On a more related note; is FP > Swallow just on a dunmer or on any class? I can understand the Kena < Nerien'eth part just fine, but FP specifically. Is it still better if you're, say, a wood elf?
FP》Swallow damage wise only for Altmer and Dunmer. But the difference on other races is marginal, however without Nerieneth and on a race other than Altmer and Dunmer Swallow would probably be the best choice damage wise. Sustain is better with force pulse though when siphoning is up.0 -
pretzl✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Interesting stuff, albeit CSH/Mundus bois are snappy lately
On a more related note; is FP > Swallow just on a dunmer or on any class? I can understand the Kena < Nerien'eth part just fine, but FP specifically. Is it still better if you're, say, a wood elf?
FP》Swallow damage wise only for Altmer and Dunmer. But the difference on other races is marginal, however without Nerieneth and on a race other than Altmer and Dunmer Swallow would probably be the best choice damage wise. Sustain is better with force pulse though when siphoning is up.
Thanks for the insight!
I have perfect Nerien'eth and I've used it on my NB thus far. I'll give it a go, but my NB is on a hard backburner as it's a *** race and it's not as fun as DK ^^
CP | Chronically Capped
Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Interesting stuff, albeit CSH/Mundus bois are snappy lately
On a more related note; is FP > Swallow just on a dunmer or on any class? I can understand the Kena < Nerien'eth part just fine, but FP specifically. Is it still better if you're, say, a wood elf?
FP》Swallow damage wise only for Altmer and Dunmer. But the difference on other races is marginal, however without Nerieneth and on a race other than Altmer and Dunmer Swallow would probably be the best choice damage wise. Sustain is better with force pulse though when siphoning is up.
Thanks for the insight!
I have perfect Nerien'eth and I've used it on my NB thus far. I'll give it a go, but my NB is on a hard backburner as it's a *** race and it's not as fun as DK ^^
NB masta class! XDServer: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
pretzl✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Interesting stuff, albeit CSH/Mundus bois are snappy lately
On a more related note; is FP > Swallow just on a dunmer or on any class? I can understand the Kena < Nerien'eth part just fine, but FP specifically. Is it still better if you're, say, a wood elf?
FP》Swallow damage wise only for Altmer and Dunmer. But the difference on other races is marginal, however without Nerieneth and on a race other than Altmer and Dunmer Swallow would probably be the best choice damage wise. Sustain is better with force pulse though when siphoning is up.
Thanks for the insight!
I have perfect Nerien'eth and I've used it on my NB thus far. I'll give it a go, but my NB is on a hard backburner as it's a *** race and it's not as fun as DK ^^
NB masta class! XD
DK OP!!CP | Chronically Capped
Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo1 -
Vezuls✭✭✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
Do not say my timing is slow because you have never seen me play. Medium Weaving and light weaving are easy. Nothing in this game takes an insane amount of skill, just practice and muscle memory. I used to medium weave exclusively before IC update dropped, and I still medium weave a lot, specifically in Maelstrom Arena because the adds have such low health light weaving makes no sense to me. Is it hard to believe that switching from light to medium and vice versa is not difficult to one who does both.
You're right, getting a slower time once means nothing, however getting a slower time 10+ times with Neri as opposed to kena, whether light or medium weaving, is known as a consistent result. Is it so hard to believe someone can get different results? That's something you guys don't understand. If Neri works well for you guys, awesome. Keep using it. But for me, Kena is stronger. I apologize my results contradict what you guys think.
You guys believe everything Asayre says and it makes me laugh because someone said I rely on people testing things for me, but you guys follow Asayre's teachings like he's Socrates. He's a very intelligent person, and is amazing for the ESO community. His math says Julianos and Sharpened > TBS and Precise, but Hodor and many others were getting contrary results. Luck, rotation, and personal preference have a lot to do with performance, more than "BiS gear." I even remember Asayre saying that only a sharpend/precise VMA staff is worth using, however, I actually tested this and a defending VMA Inferno outperforms a Nirn non set inferno. Why? It's simple. The nirn inferno barely does more damage than the vma defending inferno, but the enchant bumps your crit light attacks up by close to 3k damage (not factoring any buffs). I've had well over 10k light attack crits because of the staff's enchant.
I never said "Mashinate makes Kena better." I simply provided two example parses of people using Kena, that happened to be the 2 highest known parses for magic NB's.
I just find it funny how a lot of PC players think console players can't do anything because "we don't have the tools or the knowledge to be good." If we didn't have the tools or knowledge to be good, we wouldn't be close to completing VMoL (not talking about you livemind). Are you saying you PC players are only good because you have add-ons telling you exactly what to do?
@rokrdt05 finally something I agree with you on: NB is masta class
@Nifty2g Also, since I'm a liar and am a console noob who will never even get to the second boss: http://xboxrecord.us/gamer/TRUE Vezuls/clip/1c3f2daf-1c7f-47ef-95a6-6cb2ae9e47d9
Anyway, I apologize for barging into this thread and derailing it. That's totally my fault. I will be more careful of what I say. I have no problem with any of you, things got heated quick. I apologize once again though.
1 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭Anyway... Kena, Nerieneth, Force Pulse, Funnel..
Use whatever the hell you want, OP was just sharing his knowledgeXbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
Do not say my timing is slow because you have never seen me play. Medium Weaving and light weaving are easy. Nothing in this game takes an insane amount of skill, just practice and muscle memory. I used to medium weave exclusively before IC update dropped, and I still medium weave a lot, specifically in Maelstrom Arena because the adds have such low health light weaving makes no sense to me. Is it hard to believe that switching from light to medium and vice versa is not difficult to one who does both.
You're right, getting a slower time once means nothing, however getting a slower time 10+ times with Neri as opposed to kena, whether light or medium weaving, is known as a consistent result. Is it so hard to believe someone can get different results? That's something you guys don't understand. If Neri works well for you guys, awesome. Keep using it. But for me, Kena is stronger. I apologize my results contradict what you guys think.
You guys believe everything Asayre says and it makes me laugh because someone said I rely on people testing things for me, but you guys follow Asayre's teachings like he's Socrates. He's a very intelligent person, and is amazing for the ESO community. His math says Julianos and Sharpened > TBS and Precise, but Hodor and many others were getting contrary results. Luck, rotation, and personal preference have a lot to do with performance, more than "BiS gear." I even remember Asayre saying that only a sharpend/precise VMA staff is worth using, however, I actually tested this and a defending VMA Inferno outperforms a Nirn non set inferno. Why? It's simple. The nirn inferno barely does more damage than the vma defending inferno, but the enchant bumps your crit light attacks up by close to 3k damage (not factoring any buffs). I've had well over 10k light attack crits because of the staff's enchant.
I never said "Mashinate makes Kena better." I simply provided two example parses of people using Kena, that happened to be the 2 highest known parses for magic NB's.
I just find it funny how a lot of PC players think console players can't do anything because "we don't have the tools or the knowledge to be good." If we didn't have the tools or knowledge to be good, we wouldn't be close to completing VMoL (not talking about you livemind). Are you saying you PC players are only good because you have add-ons telling you exactly what to do?
@rokrdt05 finally something I agree with you on: NB is masta class
@Nifty2g Also, since I'm a liar and am a console noob who will never even get to the second boss: http://xboxrecord.us/gamer/TRUE Vezuls/clip/1c3f2daf-1c7f-47ef-95a6-6cb2ae9e47d9
Anyway, I apologize for barging into this thread and derailing it. That's totally my fault. I will be more careful of what I say. I have no problem with any of you, things got heated quick. I apologize once again though.
@Asayre has a lot of valid data that is extensively theory crafted, calculated, and tested. People accept what Asayre has to say because he brings a lot of calculations that we as players do not have to do. Many others have also ran the same calculations and have come up with the same results, couple this with the fact that many people have also tested said theories and have found them to be extremely accurate. So yes, when Asayre says something, it tends to get the respect it deserves because he puts in a lot of time and effort into doing the math and theory crafting.
I also want to point out that many players use Asayres data, specially more recently his CP distribution spreadsheet (which is amazing). In short, Asayre has earned the respect of the player base when it comes to his math/theories, which is why people accept what he says (usually) at face value.Edited by rokrdt05 on April 12, 2016 2:04AMServer: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
Vezuls✭✭✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
Do not say my timing is slow because you have never seen me play. Medium Weaving and light weaving are easy. Nothing in this game takes an insane amount of skill, just practice and muscle memory. I used to medium weave exclusively before IC update dropped, and I still medium weave a lot, specifically in Maelstrom Arena because the adds have such low health light weaving makes no sense to me. Is it hard to believe that switching from light to medium and vice versa is not difficult to one who does both.
You're right, getting a slower time once means nothing, however getting a slower time 10+ times with Neri as opposed to kena, whether light or medium weaving, is known as a consistent result. Is it so hard to believe someone can get different results? That's something you guys don't understand. If Neri works well for you guys, awesome. Keep using it. But for me, Kena is stronger. I apologize my results contradict what you guys think.
You guys believe everything Asayre says and it makes me laugh because someone said I rely on people testing things for me, but you guys follow Asayre's teachings like he's Socrates. He's a very intelligent person, and is amazing for the ESO community. His math says Julianos and Sharpened > TBS and Precise, but Hodor and many others were getting contrary results. Luck, rotation, and personal preference have a lot to do with performance, more than "BiS gear." I even remember Asayre saying that only a sharpend/precise VMA staff is worth using, however, I actually tested this and a defending VMA Inferno outperforms a Nirn non set inferno. Why? It's simple. The nirn inferno barely does more damage than the vma defending inferno, but the enchant bumps your crit light attacks up by close to 3k damage (not factoring any buffs). I've had well over 10k light attack crits because of the staff's enchant.
I never said "Mashinate makes Kena better." I simply provided two example parses of people using Kena, that happened to be the 2 highest known parses for magic NB's.
I just find it funny how a lot of PC players think console players can't do anything because "we don't have the tools or the knowledge to be good." If we didn't have the tools or knowledge to be good, we wouldn't be close to completing VMoL (not talking about you livemind). Are you saying you PC players are only good because you have add-ons telling you exactly what to do?
@rokrdt05 finally something I agree with you on: NB is masta class
@Nifty2g Also, since I'm a liar and am a console noob who will never even get to the second boss: http://xboxrecord.us/gamer/TRUE Vezuls/clip/1c3f2daf-1c7f-47ef-95a6-6cb2ae9e47d9
Anyway, I apologize for barging into this thread and derailing it. That's totally my fault. I will be more careful of what I say. I have no problem with any of you, things got heated quick. I apologize once again though.
@Asayre has a lot of valid data that is extensively theory crafted, calculated, and tested. People accept what Asayre has to say because he brings a lot of calculations that we as players do not have to do. Many others have also ran the same calculations and have come up with the same results, couple this with the fact that many people have also tested said theories and have found them to be extremely accurate. So yes, when Asayre says something, it tends to get the respect it deserves because he puts in a lot of time and effort into doing the math and theory crafting.
I also want to point out that many players use Asayres data, specially more recently his CP distribution spreadsheet (which is amazing). In short, Asayre has earned the respect of the player base when it comes to his math/theories, which is why people accept what he says (usually) at face value.
No doubt it's amazing, but nobody in the world is infallible. That was my point.0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
Do not say my timing is slow because you have never seen me play. Medium Weaving and light weaving are easy. Nothing in this game takes an insane amount of skill, just practice and muscle memory. I used to medium weave exclusively before IC update dropped, and I still medium weave a lot, specifically in Maelstrom Arena because the adds have such low health light weaving makes no sense to me. Is it hard to believe that switching from light to medium and vice versa is not difficult to one who does both.
You're right, getting a slower time once means nothing, however getting a slower time 10+ times with Neri as opposed to kena, whether light or medium weaving, is known as a consistent result. Is it so hard to believe someone can get different results? That's something you guys don't understand. If Neri works well for you guys, awesome. Keep using it. But for me, Kena is stronger. I apologize my results contradict what you guys think.
You guys believe everything Asayre says and it makes me laugh because someone said I rely on people testing things for me, but you guys follow Asayre's teachings like he's Socrates. He's a very intelligent person, and is amazing for the ESO community. His math says Julianos and Sharpened > TBS and Precise, but Hodor and many others were getting contrary results. Luck, rotation, and personal preference have a lot to do with performance, more than "BiS gear." I even remember Asayre saying that only a sharpend/precise VMA staff is worth using, however, I actually tested this and a defending VMA Inferno outperforms a Nirn non set inferno. Why? It's simple. The nirn inferno barely does more damage than the vma defending inferno, but the enchant bumps your crit light attacks up by close to 3k damage (not factoring any buffs). I've had well over 10k light attack crits because of the staff's enchant.
I never said "Mashinate makes Kena better." I simply provided two example parses of people using Kena, that happened to be the 2 highest known parses for magic NB's.
I just find it funny how a lot of PC players think console players can't do anything because "we don't have the tools or the knowledge to be good." If we didn't have the tools or knowledge to be good, we wouldn't be close to completing VMoL (not talking about you livemind). Are you saying you PC players are only good because you have add-ons telling you exactly what to do?
@rokrdt05 finally something I agree with you on: NB is masta class
@Nifty2g Also, since I'm a liar and am a console noob who will never even get to the second boss: http://xboxrecord.us/gamer/TRUE Vezuls/clip/1c3f2daf-1c7f-47ef-95a6-6cb2ae9e47d9
Anyway, I apologize for barging into this thread and derailing it. That's totally my fault. I will be more careful of what I say. I have no problem with any of you, things got heated quick. I apologize once again though.
@Asayre has a lot of valid data that is extensively theory crafted, calculated, and tested. People accept what Asayre has to say because he brings a lot of calculations that we as players do not have to do. Many others have also ran the same calculations and have come up with the same results, couple this with the fact that many people have also tested said theories and have found them to be extremely accurate. So yes, when Asayre says something, it tends to get the respect it deserves because he puts in a lot of time and effort into doing the math and theory crafting.
I also want to point out that many players use Asayres data, specially more recently his CP distribution spreadsheet (which is amazing). In short, Asayre has earned the respect of the player base when it comes to his math/theories, which is why people accept what he says (usually) at face value.
No doubt it's amazing, but nobody in the world is infallible. That was my point.
Even so, if Asayre continues to provide the same quality theory crafting and calculations... I see no reason to distrust it. As with any good player, the data will always be tested by those that would like to see results for themselves. He has my trust and credibility... I always test peoples theories if they are well presented regardless of who they are, as any decent player should. 99.9% of the testing I've done based on his calculations/theories has been correct. Many in the ESO community feel the same way.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
In the specific case of Juli vs. TBS that you mentioned, it's not that he's incorrect, but a matter of different assumptions about the scenario. As Asayre himself noted in his posts, Major Force behaves differently than other sources of crit modifier. Whereas others are additive, Major Force is multiplicative.No doubt it's amazing, but nobody in the world is infallible. That was my point.
The implication is that if you have a lot of uptime on Major Force (i.e., if Aggressive War Horn is going out frequently), then the effect of the Shadow mundus that you would have while using TBS would be much greater.
So it wasn't that he was wrong--it's that his conclusions applied to the general case. If you're doing solo content or 4-man content (i.e., 99% of the game), Julianos is indeed better. If you're doing a 12-man trial with good War Horn coordination to keep a high uptime on that Major Force, then TBS will be better.Edited by code65536 on April 12, 2016 2:33AMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭i will weigh in as well, @rokrdt05 and @hedna123b14_ESO are correct, the math is correct, with nerien'eth force pulse is the way to go, it outshines everything, add in the dk engulfing flames and it gets stupid. there are many reasons why someone using kena/funnel would do better dps than trying to use nerien'eth/force pulse, rng is the first to come to mind, but the most important thing to remember is timing, you use kena with light attack weaving, swapping over to medium weaving with force pulse is a whole other game, the timing is very different, both the weave and the skill, so you cannot just say i tried use kena with better results, you would need to use nerien'eth for a bit of time to get used to the timing of both a fast medium weave and the timing of force pulse pluse plus that weave. myself and others i run with, once proper timing is down, have seen dps improvements, undeniably. just because you ran blood spawn a few times and got a slower parse means nothing, what it means is your weaving is slow, the skills do not weave the same. pick up the pace and you will see improvement.
@Nifty2g is correct, pc has tooling to fully test everything, and just because every single person cant recreate it does not mean its incorrect, math does not lie.
you cant come in and say mashinate makes kena better, of course he does, the guy plays nb like he created it. he could probably out dps most of us using prolonged suffering in medium stam armor.
good greif would your mind be blown if i told you to stop using both and simply weave concealed with destro with kena up??
*edit: lol just saw @rokrdt05 said this too haha
Do not say my timing is slow because you have never seen me play. Medium Weaving and light weaving are easy. Nothing in this game takes an insane amount of skill, just practice and muscle memory. I used to medium weave exclusively before IC update dropped, and I still medium weave a lot, specifically in Maelstrom Arena because the adds have such low health light weaving makes no sense to me. Is it hard to believe that switching from light to medium and vice versa is not difficult to one who does both.
You're right, getting a slower time once means nothing, however getting a slower time 10+ times with Neri as opposed to kena, whether light or medium weaving, is known as a consistent result. Is it so hard to believe someone can get different results? That's something you guys don't understand. If Neri works well for you guys, awesome. Keep using it. But for me, Kena is stronger. I apologize my results contradict what you guys think.
You guys believe everything Asayre says and it makes me laugh because someone said I rely on people testing things for me, but you guys follow Asayre's teachings like he's Socrates. He's a very intelligent person, and is amazing for the ESO community. His math says Julianos and Sharpened > TBS and Precise, but Hodor and many others were getting contrary results. Luck, rotation, and personal preference have a lot to do with performance, more than "BiS gear." I even remember Asayre saying that only a sharpend/precise VMA staff is worth using, however, I actually tested this and a defending VMA Inferno outperforms a Nirn non set inferno. Why? It's simple. The nirn inferno barely does more damage than the vma defending inferno, but the enchant bumps your crit light attacks up by close to 3k damage (not factoring any buffs). I've had well over 10k light attack crits because of the staff's enchant.
I never said "Mashinate makes Kena better." I simply provided two example parses of people using Kena, that happened to be the 2 highest known parses for magic NB's.
I just find it funny how a lot of PC players think console players can't do anything because "we don't have the tools or the knowledge to be good." If we didn't have the tools or knowledge to be good, we wouldn't be close to completing VMoL (not talking about you livemind). Are you saying you PC players are only good because you have add-ons telling you exactly what to do?
@rokrdt05 finally something I agree with you on: NB is masta class
@Nifty2g Also, since I'm a liar and am a console noob who will never even get to the second boss: http://xboxrecord.us/gamer/TRUE Vezuls/clip/1c3f2daf-1c7f-47ef-95a6-6cb2ae9e47d9
Anyway, I apologize for barging into this thread and derailing it. That's totally my fault. I will be more careful of what I say. I have no problem with any of you, things got heated quick. I apologize once again though.
So here are some corrections and general pointa in relation to your comment.
1.I don't mind agreeing to disagree on Kena, so let's table this discussion.
2. Asayre's math actually favor precise with TBS. If you didn't notice there was a change with how major force is applied to damage, making precise with TBS BiS provided Roar of Alkosh is active. As for Asayre'said credibility. He was just a random dude who posted some theories that were scrutinized. It wasnt until we all tested his math in game and realized that he is 100% correct on everything that we actually followed his equations. He earned his place.
3. You are the only individual who is getting a defending maelstrom staff to hit harder than a Nirn staff on a boss. No one else who has tested it had the same results. While I believe you when you say you are getting these results, until I see anyone else get these results (especially on PC) I'm going to say that something is flawed with your test since multiple people have confirmed this to not be the case.
4. The enchant may indeed may make defending maelstrom staff worth it, but that entirely depends on the build you are running. The boost to light attacks may or may not outweigh the penetration loss from nirnhoned. It will all depends on the average contribution of light or medium weaves to your overall damage. For example if would argue that with a Kena setup staff damage is less than on a Nerieneth setup and it diminishes the maelstrom staff'spell enchant benefit.
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In the specific case of Juli vs. TBS that you mentioned, it's not that he's incorrect, but a matter of different assumptions about the scenario. As Asayre himself noted in his posts, Major Force behaves differently than other sources of crit modifier. Whereas others are additive, Major Force is multiplicative.No doubt it's amazing, but nobody in the world is infallible. That was my point.
The implication is that if you have a lot of uptime on Major Force (i.e., if Aggressive War Horn is going out frequently), then the effect of the Shadow mundus that you would have while using TBS would be much greater.
So it wasn't that he was wrong--it's that his conclusions applied to the general case. If you're doing solo content or 4-man content (i.e., 99% of the game), Julianos is indeed better. If you're doing a 12-man trial with good War Horn coordination to keep a high uptime on that Major Force, then TBS will be better.
Thank you for clarifying
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