Any news about shield stacking changes ? I really hope they cancel cast time ideas !

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Honestly, allowing shields to be hit by crit damage should do the trick.

A player with twice born star with thief and shadow should be able to destroy sorcs if crits on shields were possible. Both stamina and magicka should fare equally with this set. Add shattering blows cp on top of that and you have a shield breaker without needing the shield breaker set.

The best way to handle this issue is allow shields to be hit by crit, but disallow impenetrable gear to affect shields. That way, high crit builds can destroy shields, but sorcs or anyone that uses shields will be unaffected in pve.

The major minor shield suggestion sounds good, but I wonder if that would kill sorcs in vMSA.

TBS with thief+shadow is a pure pve setup, why should this be effective in pvp?

I think many people forget that (unlike heals) shields cannot crit when you cast them.
It would be unfair if you can crit on shields that dont even have mitigation.

So if you want crits on shield be prepared to deal with larger shields, either from the casters spell crit or a general compensation for the increased crit dmg.

Problem is dmg shields should be a defensive tool that gives protection but not much. People keep forgetting that light armor mages are suppose to be squishy not tanky in most MMOs glass cannon light armor mages are extremely squishy so they use shields but even shields didn't make them invincible it just kept them alive a little longer. Same for rougue builds they were squishy but to survive they utilized evasion mechanics but couldnt keep that tactic up forever so If you didn't want to be squishy guess what you wear heavy armor(even tho is sucks)

So yes shields shouldn't stack, they shouldn't be refreshable, they should be critable, but they should be allowed to have their full strenghtime.

Heck I'm the mission with Meridia she couldnt hold up a barrier for that long against Molag Bal and she's A DAEDRIC PRINCE so why can mortals hold wards up with no limitations?

byrom101b16_ESO · April 2016

If shields were non-stackable, toggleable on/off for a resource reduction penalty and increased spell resistance and/or physical resistance (depending on type), every single problem with them would disappear as long as the numbers stacked up and they were well balanced.

Where auto-applied shields from sets and some abilities occurred, only 20% of the shield effect would be applied to those already shielded.

Non-critting problems, cast time complaints, 'invulnerability' claims and stacking issues as well as their relationship with underlying armour protections and resource-min-maxing all solved with a root-cause approach to the best solution.

ZOS - stop putting ezemode sticking plasters on your games problems (shields, zerg aoe etc.) and be prepared to change things for the better by putting in a bit more thought and work. Your game will be better, and your players will be happier.

Simples...

Minalan · April 2016

Sorry, I'm late to the 'screw sorcs up the backside' party here.

The problem people have with sorcs is stacking Anulment with hardened ward. That's the 30K. That's where the big hit points are, and the OP defense. The major/minor stack would fix that. Anulment and hardened grand 'major' ward, and healing ward 'minor'. Casting one major would override the other or not take effect. It's how ALL ESO buffs work (brutality, prophesy, intellect, sorcery, etc).

The shields should remain non-critable. When they aren't stackable, we'll get two or three shotted with crits. If you can't kill us with just hardened ward up, you really need some remedial PVP lessons.

As for casting time? Just. No. It's not like there's a cast time on DK reflect, Templar heals or Nightblade cloak.

mr_wazzabi · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Sorry, I'm late to the 'screw sorcs up the backside' party here.

The problem people have with sorcs is stacking Anulment with hardened ward. That's the 30K. That's where the big hit points are, and the OP defense. The major/minor stack would fix that. Anulment and hardened grand 'major' ward, and healing ward 'minor'. Casting one major would override the other or not take effect. It's how ALL ESO buffs work (brutality, prophesy, intellect, sorcery, etc).

The shields should remain non-critable. When they aren't stackable, we'll get two or three shotted with crits. If you can't kill us with just hardened ward up, you really need some remedial PVP lessons.

As for casting time? Just. No. It's not like there's a cast time on DK reflect, Templar heals or Nightblade cloak.

This could work. However, it would also make sorcs more of a challenge to play in pve for some people.

Keeping everything the same but making shields take crit damage would leave the pve aspect unaffected, while bringing some balance to pvp. It would make the ttk (time to kill) for a tri-shield stacking sorc the same as a heavy armour warrior.

mr_wazzabi · April 2016

Double post

NativeJoe · April 2016

Sorcs don't need a shield nerf of any kind <.< infact they need a buff. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/248915/sorcs-need-a-shield-buff/p1

It is simply a fact that at the upper tiers of skill levels shields are not that strong of a damage mitigation technique. Yes shields make you impervious to damage from People who can't burst or CC, and are just coming into pvp with their pve sets... but shields are a sorcs damage mitigation technique. without them VMA would be more hell then it already is. EVERY class has it's own way of dealing with heavy damage. and nerfing my shields would kill my sorc tank build, stop my VMA progress and keep me out of pvp x.x

Minalan · April 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Sorry, I'm late to the 'screw sorcs up the backside' party here.

The problem people have with sorcs is stacking Anulment with hardened ward. That's the 30K. That's where the big hit points are, and the OP defense. The major/minor stack would fix that. Anulment and hardened grand 'major' ward, and healing ward 'minor'. Casting one major would override the other or not take effect. It's how ALL ESO buffs work (brutality, prophesy, intellect, sorcery, etc).

The shields should remain non-critable. When they aren't stackable, we'll get two or three shotted with crits. If you can't kill us with just hardened ward up, you really need some remedial PVP lessons.

As for casting time? Just. No. It's not like there's a cast time on DK reflect, Templar heals or Nightblade cloak.

This could work. However, it would also make sorcs more of a challenge to play in pve for some people.

Keeping everything the same but making shields take crit damage would leave the pve aspect unaffected, while bringing some balance to pvp. It would make the ttk (time to kill) for a tri-shield stacking sorc the same as a heavy armour warrior.

The PVE aspect would have to decide what shield to use in what situation. Fighting a caster boss and need resources? Use Anulnent. Fighting melee mobs and need physical? Use hardened. It shouldn't be as easy as hitting two buttons without thinking about it.

People might actually start using things like Bound Aegis or Lightning Form more often to do that content, right now there's no need to do so with 30K shields you can refresh over and over again.

Waffennacht · April 2016

I love the 30k shield...

In PvP my hardened (at 42k magicka) is roughly 9k. Meaning my annulment is definitely smaller so... 8k at a nice over the top number. Healing, maxed out, is what 9k.

So to get my "30k" shield, I gotta: Use 9kish in magicka, have less than 20% heal, playing against a magicka build, and spam 3 different abilities, all while combating an active opponent. (Which in REALITY less than 30k)

If during those 3 seconds of me spamming shields, you can't get me on my heels or drain my magicka, you need to L2P.

Its called gap closer stun, CC, knockdown etc

DHale · April 2016

Why add to old posts this is so... Old and useless. They already destroyed one class they are not going to repeat such a mistake. Without shields sorcs would be nothing. Every Stam build can bust through sorc shield in two wrecking blows easily. I have never survived more than two wrecking blows. I can bust through a sorcs hardened ward in two wrecking blows even on my vr 1 even without rally and that is a sorc running a 100 in bastion. Harness magic is meaningless against any weapon. So ppl that want sorcs nerfed just really can't play that well.

KundaliniHero · April 2016

This is really easy to resolve: make shields vulnerable to crits - end of story, that coupled with the new shattering blows passive should be enough to balance things out. I dont have too much problem with shield stacking sorcs, its their playstyle. It really shouldn't be fair for other classes to stack impen to get crit immunity but a dude in a dress can just pop one or two abilities and be 100% immune.

Sorc shields aren't the problem though and neither was Dark Cloak for NB's, they need to buff the other classes to be more competitive rather than nerfing down the classes that actually work.

With all the whining that goes on in here and the subsequent nerfs that follow, one day there won't be anyone left to listen.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Vangy · April 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Im confused. When u say tank and healers are you referring to pure tank/heal builds or to sustain builds which can do significant damage and run 5 impen etc with some heavy pieces etc? At the risk of stating the obvious, tank focused and heal focused builds are probably best played in groups and prolly cant (and shouldnt) be able to kill enemy players alone.

However, I do agree that making shields crittable is not really a solution. It would make shields worthless because a single crit can land for ard for anywhere between 10-15k depending on the gear of the players involved. I think a more valid solution is that sheilds dont stack. (ie the shield with the biggest shield value will overwrite (or stay) when a shield is casted (or recasted). Ie; if I have hardened ward for 15k, and I cast healing, Healing ward wont work by placing an extra shield on me. It would be incorporated into the current hardened ward I have active and heal me as usual at the end of the healing ward duration. So hardened ward /healing ward functionality is the same. Just that healing ward dosent add even more of a damage shield to my hardened ward.

This should even out the ground for tank and Dps builds.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Im confused. When u say tank and healers are you referring to pure tank/heal builds or to sustain builds which can do significant damage and run 5 impen etc with some heavy pieces etc? At the risk of stating the obvious, tank focused and heal focused builds are probably best played in groups and prolly cant (and shouldnt) be able to kill enemy players alone.

However, I do agree that making shields crittable is not really a solution. It would make shields worthless because a single crit can land for ard for anywhere between 10-15k depending on the gear of the players involved. I think a more valid solution is that sheilds dont stack. (ie the shield with the biggest shield value will overwrite (or stay) when a shield is casted (or recasted). Ie; if I have hardened ward for 15k, and I cast healing, Healing ward wont work by placing an extra shield on me. It would be incorporated into the current hardened ward I have active and heal me as usual at the end of the healing ward duration. So hardened ward /healing ward functionality is the same. Just that healing ward dosent add even more of a damage shield to my hardened ward.

This should even out the ground for tank and Dps builds.

That is what ZOS is thinking and what I was saying is those players who do the dailies in Cyrodiil who tend to run into "those players" what are they gonna do against the almighty damage shields ? Cause mitigation only goes so far now a days (sadly) and they can't exactly out DPS them.

Burning_Talons · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorcs Defense is too high considering they do the most damage.

You just seem to want to defend this skill with your life

Only against other magicka users, which is why stacking Annulment (and the two morphs) is the problem. Physical damage dealers should have no problems with sorcs.

The problem is what to do about Dampen Magic and Harness Magicka without ruining light armor completely for everyone.

East, make it grant Major Ward same as Conjured Ward
Making stacking it useless

So would healing ward be 'minor ward' then?

That would work, but it would utterly ruin light armor for sorcs. Unless you want all of us to wear heavy armor, it might be easier to change Anulnent to do something else entirely. Why does it need to be a shield? Why not a regen, spell resist, or a damage buff?

Then other classes wont have a shield

Metemsycosis · April 2016

Leave the shields alone

Making shields crittable kills basically every magicka build's insta-defense. ive been leveling a stam nb and she would love it if shields could be critted.

There are two easy ways to get 100 percent critical chances (nb and 2h) and ways to gear to reach effectively 100.

I personally like the direction of obtaining effective counters, like a major or minor shield debuff skill. (25 to 10 % or w/e)

We already have resistance and healing debuffs but none against shielding. Why not? then we wonder why stacked shields feel op.

.

Vangy · April 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Im confused. When u say tank and healers are you referring to pure tank/heal builds or to sustain builds which can do significant damage and run 5 impen etc with some heavy pieces etc? At the risk of stating the obvious, tank focused and heal focused builds are probably best played in groups and prolly cant (and shouldnt) be able to kill enemy players alone.

However, I do agree that making shields crittable is not really a solution. It would make shields worthless because a single crit can land for ard for anywhere between 10-15k depending on the gear of the players involved. I think a more valid solution is that sheilds dont stack. (ie the shield with the biggest shield value will overwrite (or stay) when a shield is casted (or recasted). Ie; if I have hardened ward for 15k, and I cast healing, Healing ward wont work by placing an extra shield on me. It would be incorporated into the current hardened ward I have active and heal me as usual at the end of the healing ward duration. So hardened ward /healing ward functionality is the same. Just that healing ward dosent add even more of a damage shield to my hardened ward.

This should even out the ground for tank and Dps builds.

That is what ZOS is thinking and what I was saying is those players who do the dailies in Cyrodiil who tend to run into "those players" what are they gonna do against the almighty damage shields ? Cause mitigation only goes so far now a days (sadly) and they can't exactly out DPS them.

Not too sure what you mean. I run a stam DK with 5 heavy/1 medium/1 light.

5 morkuldin, 2 engin, 2 nights silence. 3 agility (SnB/2H) --> 34k stam, 3k weapon damage, and ard 2200 crit resistance. ard 20k spell and phy resist. I'd say I qualify as a tank build. Got no burst on me. I dont have a problem with most shield stackers. I just stay on them and burn their stam bar to 0. When that happens they dead.

It gets a lot more complicated in large scale battles tho. With tons of toons stacking shields etc. The again my dk is small scale/solo centred build.

Shields not being able to be stacked would be more than sufficient to solve this shield problem we have imo. Letting shields get crit would just make them useless. Shields dont get any resistances from the player anyway. A 12k hardened ward shouldnt be too hard of a thing to beat down if it dosent stack with healing ward/annulment.

mrdaveqc · April 2016

Stop asking for nerf because you can't kill a sorc and your mad about it ... Yea ward is a good spell. It's like clock for NB If you nerf Shield make it that is ward or the healing one not both of them at the same time . We already had a nerf with streak don't kill this classe please , make balance

mrdaveqc · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK to every one saying "just make shields critable problem solved" what about healers or tank players ? How are they supposed to deal with shield stackers when they can't deal the same stupid amount of DPS as DPS players ?

Before any one says "solo players bla bla bla bla BS" there are daily quest in Cyrodiil and Imperial city and the dolems that players tend to do for EXP or rewards and half half tend to do them alone.

Im confused. When u say tank and healers are you referring to pure tank/heal builds or to sustain builds which can do significant damage and run 5 impen etc with some heavy pieces etc? At the risk of stating the obvious, tank focused and heal focused builds are probably best played in groups and prolly cant (and shouldnt) be able to kill enemy players alone.

However, I do agree that making shields crittable is not really a solution. It would make shields worthless because a single crit can land for ard for anywhere between 10-15k depending on the gear of the players involved. I think a more valid solution is that sheilds dont stack. (ie the shield with the biggest shield value will overwrite (or stay) when a shield is casted (or recasted). Ie; if I have hardened ward for 15k, and I cast healing, Healing ward wont work by placing an extra shield on me. It would be incorporated into the current hardened ward I have active and heal me as usual at the end of the healing ward duration. So hardened ward /healing ward functionality is the same. Just that healing ward dosent add even more of a damage shield to my hardened ward.

This should even out the ground for tank and Dps builds.

That is what ZOS is thinking and what I was saying is those players who do the dailies in Cyrodiil who tend to run into "those players" what are they gonna do against the almighty damage shields ? Cause mitigation only goes so far now a days (sadly) and they can't exactly out DPS them.

Not too sure what you mean. I run a stam DK with 5 heavy/1 medium/1 light.

5 morkuldin, 2 engin, 2 nights silence. 3 agility (SnB/2H) --> 34k stam, 3k weapon damage, and ard 2200 crit resistance. ard 20k spell and phy resist. I'd say I qualify as a tank build. Got no burst on me. I dont have a problem with most shield stackers. I just stay on them and burn their stam bar to 0. When that happens they dead.

It gets a lot more complicated in large scale battles tho. With tons of toons stacking shields etc. The again my dk is small scale/solo centred build.

Shields not being able to be stacked would be more than sufficient to solve this shield problem we have imo. Letting shields get crit would just make them useless. Shields dont get any resistances from the player anyway. A 12k hardened ward shouldnt be too hard of a thing to beat down if it dosent stack with healing ward/annulment.

That is how you fight a sorc btw. Read it and learn from it .