Any news about shield stacking changes ? I really hope they cancel cast time ideas !

Minalan · March 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorcs Defense is too high considering they do the most damage.

You just seem to want to defend this skill with your life

Only against other magicka users, which is why stacking Annulment (and the two morphs) is the problem. Physical damage dealers should have no problems with sorcs.

The problem is what to do about Dampen Magic and Harness Magicka without ruining light armor completely for everyone.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorry baconlad, there is lots wrong with shield stacking, and I only play a sorc.

Minalan · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorry baconlad, there is lots wrong with shield stacking, and I only play a sorc.

I think the issue is that the people with the most trouble playing as sorcs have low or few champion points. My guess would be 100-200 or so, and you really do die constantly during this annoying grind phase.

Once you hit the 500 CP mark, there's a universe of difference in survivability. Double at least, or more than someone at V16 with about half that.

If they straight nerf annulment without replacing it with something useful, everyone is just going to stack lightning form and hardened ward as FOTM.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Minalan wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorry baconlad, there is lots wrong with shield stacking, and I only play a sorc.

I think the issue is that the people with the most trouble playing as sorcs have low or few champion points. My guess would be 100-200 or so, and you really do die constantly during this annoying grind phase.

Once you hit the 500 CP mark, there's a universe of difference in survivability. Double at least, or more than someone at V16 with about half that.

If they straight nerf annulment without replacing it with something useful, everyone is just going to stack lightning form and hardened ward as FOTM.

I gave up shield stacking at around 250cp, I still only have 480cp. As it happens I do stack hardened ward and boundless storm, and defensive rune, and I use combat prayer as my burst heal and mini-empower, but why would this be an issue if it became FOTM? It's not exactly hard to counter. I also stack impen and spell and physical resistance to mitigate overflow damage when my 10.3k hardened ward inevitably gets broken.

I'm not suggesting any individual ward gets nerfed, I'm suggesting zos introduce mechanics to stop large wards being combined, or at least to weaken them if combined. Right now shield stacking is lazy and makes good sorcs too tanky for the amount of damage they can dish out. The other issue with shield stacking that I pointed out earlier in this thread is that if it becomes accepted then hardened, healing and harness will get balanced around being combined with each other, therefore leaving them lacking when used individually. And if they get balanced individually then they will always be op when combined. If shield stacking is to remain an accepted mechanic then it needs to be balanced in a way that still leaves individual shields like hardened ward viable when used alone. Do you see the issue with "needing" to stack 3 shields to survive? Wouldn't you rather just have one slightly tougher ward so you didn't have to spam 3 buttons every 5 seconds?

I'm also not suggesting shield stacking be removed and that's it. I acknowledge that if shield stacking was removed then individual shields might need buffing, especially if they were to be crittable. As it stands though as long as shield stacking is accepted as it is now then single shield users will always get shafted.

Omgwtfbbq321 · March 2016

I would enjoy minor major system, where casting a shield over another shield would just replace it.

No sorcs will ever use annulment again, but it will stop the boring fights against magcika users stacking shields.

It would tone down Healing Ward, being unable to hide it under another ward.

I mean sometimes its just as hard to kill a Magicka Nightblade who stacks annulment and healing ward as it is facing a shield stacking sorc.

Whatever they choose to do, I just want balance. ...Oh and if they do allow shields to be critable, I hope they remember shields don't have resistances like players do.

Vangy · March 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

]

Except in PvE, the added cost would destroy PvE sorcs, along with a cast time.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I was more worried my suggestion would over impact pvp. I play pve sorc frequently and I don't think the cost-up for rapid repeat would be enough to "destroy" sorc pve.

Tactics may have to change to enable gaps where one can let the 4 sec expire for instance. Shield then streak or shield then cloak pot or shield then lightning form. There are plenty of ways to help avoid being the aggro and defenseless for 4 sec in most cases.

All of them trickier than "click again" of course.

I think cast time would have more serious an impact. I don't like that option myself.

Do you solo vet dungeons? The added cost would make that impossible. Group content can be completed by any build by anyone. End game content is what must be,considered.

Try soloing end game content such as vet pledges using SnB on a stamina build. Stam regen nerf made this near impossible. Hell, we have considerably more trouble finishing even vMSA and that is supposedly solo content.....

Weng · March 2016

A cast time on shields? How is this supposed to work e.g. with Brawler, does it get a cast time now?

I use Hardened Ward occasionally on my stamina sorc, but it only works when the skill is instant spammable, because the shield is rather weak, if you don't run a pure magicka build. With a cast time it will be totally useless on a stamina build.

I just want to add for an "action combat" system, the ESO play style gets more and more clumsy and stuttery. One second cast times on skills, "mini-stuns" after dodge-roll, hidden global cool-downs on weapon swap and potion usage, no stam resource regeneration during block and sneak.

And now shields are no longer castable as a defense in combat?

Burning_Talons · March 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorcs Defense is too high considering they do the most damage.

You just seem to want to defend this skill with your life

Only against other magicka users, which is why stacking Annulment (and the two morphs) is the problem. Physical damage dealers should have no problems with sorcs.

The problem is what to do about Dampen Magic and Harness Magicka without ruining light armor completely for everyone.

East, make it grant Major Ward same as Conjured Ward
Making stacking it useless

Minalan · March 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Sorcs Defense is too high considering they do the most damage.

You just seem to want to defend this skill with your life

Only against other magicka users, which is why stacking Annulment (and the two morphs) is the problem. Physical damage dealers should have no problems with sorcs.

The problem is what to do about Dampen Magic and Harness Magicka without ruining light armor completely for everyone.

East, make it grant Major Ward same as Conjured Ward
Making stacking it useless

So would healing ward be 'minor ward' then?

That would work, but it would utterly ruin light armor for sorcs. Unless you want all of us to wear heavy armor, it might be easier to change Anulnent to do something else entirely. Why does it need to be a shield? Why not a regen, spell resist, or a damage buff?

Casul · March 2016

I don't know if it was mentioned. Didn't look to thoroughly. But to those who say the sorc doesn't have any self heals other then surge. Thats incorrect. Now both the pets have heals that can crit. I got roughly a 10k heal off my clannfear which I think is pretty substancial. May require a pet active but it's still something.

CyrusArya · March 2016

Only 2 things really need to change in my opinion. Hardened and harness should not stack, and shields should be crit able. The problem isn't that sorcs are OP, just the way shields mechanically work right now is unbalanced. Shield stacking is also not the issue, healing ward and hardened have to stack for sorcs to be viable as it currently stands. And yes, healing ward inside hardened is a strong combo...but so is healing ward 'stacked' with cloak or breath of life. And all of those techniques are on par with with 'stacking' shuffle /vigor/roll dodge so I think it's balanced. Making shields critable would greatly diminish the 'get out of jail' card that most magicka builds have when in execute range, while still allowing healing ward to be very viable with skillful play.

Harness on top of hardened absolutely has got to go...it gives sorcs too much of an advantage against every single magicka class. Camp mines and stack these two shields and you should never die to another magicka class unless you're severely outplayed, and that is most definitely not balanced. Stam builds can deal with sorcs. It's usually a struggle vs good sorcs but definitely competitive fights on any Stam class and usually fun fights too. Fighting sorcs as magicka is cancerous, and all because harness stacks with hardened.

Cast time on hardened is dumb idea.

Minalan · March 2016

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

I would enjoy minor major system, where casting a shield over another shield would just replace it.

No sorcs will ever use annulment again, but it will stop the boring fights against magcika users stacking shields.

It would tone down Healing Ward, being unable to hide it under another ward.

I mean sometimes its just as hard to kill a Magicka Nightblade who stacks annulment and healing ward as it is facing a shield stacking sorc.

Whatever they choose to do, I just want balance. ...Oh and if they do allow shields to be critable, I hope they remember shields don't have resistances like players do.

If you make my shields critable, then I want crits to ignore reflect too. Then we can at least take turns 1-2 shotting each other.

Terrible idea, I hope ZOS ignores it:

Waffennacht · March 2016

Making them critable, and no stacking is a horrid idea, it would making healing spells strictly better than wards, remember wards don't get armor resistance

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Un nerf shields

Only allow one to be active at a time.

Increase to cost of the of the shield by 33% when you refresh a ward (refreshing is recasting an existing ward on yourself).

Allow them to be critable.

Boom problem solved. All magic builds have access to reliable healing now so 'shield stacking' isn't nessisary.

RebornV3x · April 2016

I'm all for a tweak to shields but I'm worried ZOS will over nerf them.

My idea to balance shields is maybe do it similar to Streak if you were to recast a ward within 4 or 5 seconds it should cost more Magicka anything other than this and I feel Sorcs will get over nerfed. but honestly there are bigger issues skill balance wise than shield stacking we have shield breaker and a CP passive so its not like this is game breaking anymore.

Reykice · April 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The shield needs to go. Its being used to solo vet dungeon, trial bosses... that`s how good it is. Having a shield that is bigger than your hp should never be a thing. A hard cap for shields @ 40% hp or so would also fix it, even if they don`t add a cast time.

Sorcs will adapt and heal like everyone else or via crit surge.

1. Never heard that sorcerers with shield can do such things.
2. I can only accept shields can be critical.
3. Sorcerer has not solid self heals , even worse than NB. NB can sap and use his 'vampire‘ kind spells to heal and dps. Sorcerer only has one kind skill with a inner CD.
4. No doubt that nerf shields too much will force more people to leave rather any kind of good results

A quick google will show you plenty of videos of a sorc soloing vet dungeons.

Thay also gave sorcs a solid heal just like the templar one last patch.

Are you surr you are playing the same game?

Sorcs are #1 in Veteran Maelstrom score + they can solo vet dungeons and some trial bosses, google it and see how stop thinking they are weak.

Shaiba · April 2016

chongguang wrote: »

1. Never heard that sorcerers with shield can do such things.
2. I can only accept shields can be critical.
3. Sorcerer has not solid self heals , even worse than NB. NB can sap and use his 'vampire‘ kind spells to heal and dps. Sorcerer only has one kind skill with a inner CD.
4. No doubt that nerf shields too much will force more people to leave rather any kind of good results

1/ As @Reykice said you can find videos on youtube of sorcerers soloing dungeons.
3/ Clannfear is the self heal for Sorc. Sap essence isn't only a self heal same goes for Funnel Health, it heals the NB and someone of the group (more people for Sap Essence). You can use your Matriarch as a sorc to heal you and/or your teammates. Swallow Soul is the "self heal" of the NB but it won't heal you as much as the matriarch or the clannfear.

Reykice wrote: »

A quick google will show you plenty of videos of a sorc soloing vet dungeons.

You can also find videos of NB soloing such dungeons.

Thay also gave sorcs a solid heal just like the templar one last patch.

Yes and no. Yes cause it can heal as much as BoL (+ to increase your healing power with such a skill you'll only need to rely on your Magicka as a Sorcerer whereas Templars need to rely on both magicka and spell power). And no cause templar doesn't need to have BoL in both bar to use it + on sorc it's a pet, if your pet dies, you'll need to re-summon it before using flash heals again.

they can solo vet dungeons

Not only sorc can do that. About that : problem isn't that sorcs is OP, problem is that vet dungeon are too easy

Lutallo · April 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Re: this
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull

Don't other classes also have shields at various options either in class shields, annulment/harness or even thru cp trees?

Not as strong or maybe reliable as the sort maybe but still, seems like most classes can get a crit-stop shield too without worrying about impen.

Templar annul, blaze shield, reinforcement maybe.
DK forget the name of their shield plus the other.

NB don't recall one but too lazy to look it up.

No other class shield is anywhere near as powerful as the sorc Hardened Ward. A templar's Sun Shield in PvP would be lucky to cover more than 4k health and the obsidian shield is tiny as well, probably less than 4k.

Critical immunity using a shield that covers 4k health? One attack from any class would destroy the shield and leave you vulnerable. But every sorc hardened ward sits between 10-13k in PvP. It's cheap to cast and can be spammed, giving you complete critical immunity unless your opponent has a 20k dps burst.

Didaco · April 2016

I don't understand why everyone wants to go with this minor-major shield thing.

Just make Hardened Ward, Steadfast Ward and Annulment non-stackable with each other.

It's a videogame dammit, you can program it to do whatever you want.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

Baconlad wrote: »

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHIELD STACKING....its how magicka builds, most specifically sorcs stay alive. Bitching about shield stacking is the same argument that left templar healing, stamina build dodge rolling, DK resists and reflecting and NB cloak to a nerf. Do you see a trend?! They need THE defensive capability of a class and build and say "oh ***....we *** up" leading to band aid fixes and *** skills like vigor, I mean common a stamina build should RELY on dodge chance and dodge rolling and blocking, like a magicka build RELIES on shields, healing, cloaking and reflecting...revert all nerfs to defensive capability. And stop being little *** when you can't one shot somone with dark flare/ wrecking blow/ crystal frags/ snipe. These fights will last longer on all ends. L2P is THE REASON why you cannot kill a player who uses his defense. Right now for me, sorcs are ridiculously easy to kill, dark flare, dark flare, charge, crescent sweep, proc set, jabs. If they are smart they know how to counter and stay alive, do I ***? NO. I prepare for a counter offense, and defend myself, being healing ward and a honor the dead. STOP CRYING FOR NERFS TO DEFENSIVE CAPABILITY THEN CRYING BECAUSE YOU CANT STAY ALIVE

Hmm all stamina users rely on dodge rolling because blocking/mitigation is in a very bad spot right now cause of players like you crying about it why you think tanks are so few these days ?

Sorry delete your comment it is very hypocritical to say shields are balanced and "magic users only defense" when they clearly are not.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

w3ng_vgeb17_ESO wrote: »

A cast time on shields? How is this supposed to work e.g. with Brawler, does it get a cast time now?

I use Hardened Ward occasionally on my stamina sorc, but it only works when the skill is instant spammable, because the shield is rather weak, if you don't run a pure magicka build. With a cast time it will be totally useless on a stamina build.

I just want to add for an "action combat" system, the ESO play style gets more and more clumsy and stuttery. One second cast times on skills, "mini-stuns" after dodge-roll, hidden global cool-downs on weapon swap and potion usage, no stam resource regeneration during block and sneak.

And now shields are no longer castable as a defense in combat?

ZOS said only a few skills such as harden ward or healing ward will have cast times while others such as Templars sun shield or Brawler will not have a cast time.

I still support the idea of adding them to the major/minor system.

Waffennacht · April 2016

@Vangy that has nothing to do with adding a cast time to wards making solo vDungeons impossibel for sorcs. That was my only point.

A exponentially increasing cost or cast time would cripple sorcs. Im going to even go out on a limb and say if they do that, they will become the worst at PvP and definitely weak in PvE.

If you add the cast time then a current sorc build will die asap, get rif of one shield and while they are trying to cast another (at which point they can't respond) one hit kill. Or they spec into a less focused build and have the worst moves and incomparably bad dps.

The minor major would prevent all issues while allowing PvP and PvE sorcs very competitive,

Zyle · April 2016

As long as they don't nerf small shields into oblivion with a global shield nerf like battle spirit did I'm okay with it.

Vangy · April 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Vangy that has nothing to do with adding a cast time to wards making solo vDungeons impossibel for sorcs. That was my only point.

A exponentially increasing cost or cast time would cripple sorcs. Im going to even go out on a limb and say if they do that, they will become the worst at PvP and definitely weak in PvE.

If you add the cast time then a current sorc build will die asap, get rif of one shield and while they are trying to cast another (at which point they can't respond) one hit kill. Or they spec into a less focused build and have the worst moves and incomparably bad dps.

The minor major would prevent all issues while allowing PvP and PvE sorcs very competitive,

@Waffennacht I have a sorc at v16 which I play quite often in both PVP and PvE. I much prefer the major, minor system over the cast time to be honest. I think I might have failed to mention that in my previous post. The only issue I have with sorcs is that they can run 7/7 divines with hardened + healing + harness, with around 500 CP (put 100 into phy resist), and be pretty much crit immune to most builds. Unless someone is able to whoop out a 20k burst on you, your shields arent going down. It also makes magicka vs magicka so unfavoured if you are not a sorc. Not to mentioned unbearably boring if your going sorc against sorc. As long as hardened dosent stack with other shields, this whole problem would be moot.

Jsmalls · April 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

Huh? You mean while sporting 50k magicka and 3.8k spell power, without any need to spec in any resistances, crit reduction, etc., able to run without a restro staff, and all while wearing divines/infused when everyone else has to use impenetrable?

I play my sorc to the meta, but personally wish shield stacking wouldn't cabin the class into a small number of builds.

Please show me the build you're using to sport 50k magicka and 3.8k spell damage. Most sorcerers will sit at 44k max with 3400 spell damage. And at that point you are completely gimping your bar and you become a Togglemancer...

Vangy · April 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

Huh? You mean while sporting 50k magicka and 3.8k spell power, without any need to spec in any resistances, crit reduction, etc., able to run without a restro staff, and all while wearing divines/infused when everyone else has to use impenetrable?

I play my sorc to the meta, but personally wish shield stacking wouldn't cabin the class into a small number of builds.

Please show me the build you're using to sport 50k magicka and 3.8k spell damage. Most sorcerers will sit at 44k max with 3400 spell damage. And at that point you are completely gimping your bar and you become a Togglemancer...

I want to know this secret build too.. My poor sorc only has 3.3k spell damage and ard 45k max magicka...

Memnock · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Memnock wrote: »

Im ok with adding a cast timer on shields for sorcerer as long as my survivability as a class is buffed in another way. Dragon Knights get to use a skill that heals the crap out of them when low HP , plus wings reflect spam , Templars are a class without mobility but with some decent heals if specked properly, so same , NBs as far as i can see they heal themselves from the dmg that they do , and someone already mentioned , not everyone carries around magelight , so the hit to their stealth is still mitigated.

I am not a pro at the class , since i played this game for 3 months at release , then quit , played another 2 months when the game had its sub removed and i just started to play again , about 1 month ago. In all this time , the the only class i played is the sorc and as far as i can see , the only way for a sorc to survive right now and not get demolished is to reply on hardened.

If you give me an alternative skill that either mitigates dmg , or allows me to heal off ( on par with the other classes ) , then im fine with the shield nerf , but until then , just please NO.

Edit : Forgot to mention , but 3 out of the 4 classes that this game has , have access to a personal shield that they have besides the Harness Magicka and Healing Ward. Templars have sun shield and DKs have obsidian shield and I am aware that Sun shield scales off HP , instead of mana , not sure about DK one though , but it seems that the bigger problem here is the fact that these classes that scream murder when a sorc relies on shields is the fact that we have literally no other built in method to mitigate or heal incoming dmg , unlike the rest of them , as far as i know.

As for NBs , the reason i think they don't get a shield in their class skills , is the fact that they got invisibility instead of that.

So if you complain about shields for sorcs , please consider making constructive threads to buffing your own classes handicaps without making them over the top and if you still feel the need to scream for nerfs , then , please consider the ramifications of the change and consider provided a solution for the gap that a certain nerf makes and what it could take away from a certain class.

My friend....

Dk igneous shields also scale off max health... its a 2k shield (even less in cyro) at best... We use it for the major mending buff. Not the shield. Also, If your referring to the self-healing capabilites of DK, I do hope you are not referring to dragons blood. Its so bad in PvP.

Temp blazing shield also sucks unless your running some max health build.

Every mag class has access to self heals. Resto staff. Every stam class uses vigor/rally for heals. 80% of people in cyro using non-class based heals at the moment. The only ones who have class based heals are the templars with BOL and magblades.

The only issue with hardened ward is that it stacks with healing ward as well as harness magicka. On my sorc that mitigates close to 20k+ damage from another mag toon WHILE returning magicka to me.... Thats insane and needs to be toned down. Hardened ward dosent need a nerf. It just needs to not stack with the other shields.

I was going off of the tooltips from the class skills , since i do not play a DK , i can't say how good is the dragon's blood , but that skill , before i left the game over a year ago , was a powerful self heal , providing the class a reliable survival method when coupled with other class skills like wings , not sure what changed , but even now i see DKs surviving for quite some time, being assaulted by a but load of ppl , again , if i am missing something here , i apologize , i haven't been back long enough to figure out all the ins and outs of the game

Also , every class has access to stacking 2 out of the 3 shields that the sorc has access to , but with the downside that templars and DKs have crappy class based shields that scale of a stat thats mainly useless to a DPS and is usually buffed with food only. The problem i see here , is the basic design of each class :

- Sorcerer -mostly asociated with the mage archetype in all games , casting stuff from range
- Templar - Paladin/Priest archetype , being a decent class in all aspects of the game , with a heavier focus on healing
- DK - warrior archetype , with a more pronounced focus on being a meat shield
- NB - rogue/assassin dude works great from the shadows

With this in mind we can kind of see where the survivability of each of them comes from in large terms , and again , i ask , if hardened is not stacking with the 2 other shields , how does a sorc go about staying alive in a mass battle where everything is hectic ? I mean the other 3 classes , can stack Healing and Harness magic as well , but instead of a 3rd shield , they have other options to sustain themselves.

Again , i am new to the meta , since i only recently came back and the only class that i have is a Sorc that i started when the game began and now i have brought to V16 , so i am still learning about the interactions between the classes , but please tell me how would you work this out so Sorcs dont get nerfed into oblivion.

People mentioned the major/minor ward system , instead of a cast time , maybe that would be a better work around i suppose , but i am curious as to how this would be implemented ; for example , i can use 2 out of the 3 shields at all times ? Like for instance i can cast Hardened and Harness , but i can't use Healing while hardened is up , cuz it would replace it ? Then that would work out great i think.

A change like this would hopefully satisfy all people , and would would still leave my sorc alone and viable.

Toast_STS · April 2016

Maybe just put a soft cap on Hardened Ward? Or change that morph to something else useless like the other morph so it doesn't get the 30% bonus.

Septimus_Magna · April 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Honestly, allowing shields to be hit by crit damage should do the trick.

A player with twice born star with thief and shadow should be able to destroy sorcs if crits on shields were possible. Both stamina and magicka should fare equally with this set. Add shattering blows cp on top of that and you have a shield breaker without needing the shield breaker set.

The best way to handle this issue is allow shields to be hit by crit, but disallow impenetrable gear to affect shields. That way, high crit builds can destroy shields, but sorcs or anyone that uses shields will be unaffected in pve.

The major minor shield suggestion sounds good, but I wonder if that would kill sorcs in vMSA.

TBS with thief+shadow is a pure pve setup, why should this be effective in pvp?

I think many people forget that (unlike heals) shields cannot crit when you cast them.
It would be unfair if you can crit on shields that dont even have mitigation.

So if you want crits on shield be prepared to deal with larger shields, either from the casters spell crit or a general compensation for the increased crit dmg.

mr_wazzabi · April 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Honestly, allowing shields to be hit by crit damage should do the trick.

A player with twice born star with thief and shadow should be able to destroy sorcs if crits on shields were possible. Both stamina and magicka should fare equally with this set. Add shattering blows cp on top of that and you have a shield breaker without needing the shield breaker set.

The best way to handle this issue is allow shields to be hit by crit, but disallow impenetrable gear to affect shields. That way, high crit builds can destroy shields, but sorcs or anyone that uses shields will be unaffected in pve.

The major minor shield suggestion sounds good, but I wonder if that would kill sorcs in vMSA.

TBS with thief+shadow is a pure pve setup, why should this be effective in pvp?

I think many people forget that (unlike heals) shields cannot crit when you cast them.
It would be unfair if you can crit on shields that dont even have mitigation.

So if you want crits on shield be prepared to deal with larger shields, either from the casters spell crit or a general compensation for the increased crit dmg.

Even if you could crit a shield, sorcs still have more effective hp than everybody else in cyrodiil. It makes it fair. Highest effective hp, high mobility, highest ranged dps. What more do you want?