Xsorus wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Good groups very rarely die to VD. This set benefits organised guild groups more than anyone else as anyone who's actually run in a group that's adapted to the new meta (and is most likely wearing 5 piece VD) will tell you. It also gives the one shot cheeseblades something to do - however in all the videos posted to date you won't see any of the top guilds featuring as we have adapted to the new meta and are (a) using it ourselves to blow up zergs and less coordinated groups as we did before the patch; and (b) consequently we know how to avoid getting blown up by it so never stay still grouped on one spot for long enough to get bombed.

Emperor siege in a high lag situation is far more scary than VD as is the ridiculous amount of snares and slows in the meta now which are an mDK's bane. I've died far more to not seeing the rings from emperor siege and from getting stuck due to bombard (insert snare) spam than I have from VD since the patch dropped.

Agreed with the first paragraph...no amount of spell damage and magicka will allow you to burst a smart group when they're composed of 10 templar healers

While this is true in regards to one nightblade... It is not true in regards to two or three nightblades

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Good groups very rarely die to VD. This set benefits organised guild groups more than anyone else as anyone who's actually run in a group that's adapted to the new meta (and is most likely wearing 5 piece VD) will tell you. It also gives the one shot cheeseblades something to do - however in all the videos posted to date you won't see any of the top guilds featuring as we have adapted to the new meta and are (a) using it ourselves to blow up zergs and less coordinated groups as we did before the patch; and (b) consequently we know how to avoid getting blown up by it so never stay still grouped on one spot for long enough to get bombed.

Emperor siege in a high lag situation is far more scary than VD as is the ridiculous amount of snares and slows in the meta now which are an mDK's bane. I've died far more to not seeing the rings from emperor siege and from getting stuck due to bombard (insert snare) spam than I have from VD since the patch dropped.

Agreed with the first paragraph...no amount of spell damage and magicka will allow you to burst a smart group when they're composed of 10 templar healers

While this is true in regards to one nightblade... It is not true in regards to two or three nightblades

The answer is called "block and CC".

Most good groups are *built* to take on massive aoe damage and live. You'll get a lucky hit in time to time (usually because that group is already under pressure from a larger group) but mostly you're just exploding potatoes.

Jimbohere wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Vicious Death set was created by completely taking stamina builds out of equation. Magicka builds got buffed proxy det, strong magicka gear set with all five good set bonuses to fight stacking, in hope to reduce lag. VD set wasn't meant to balanced, it was meant as a band aid solution.

It's a horrible bandaid though cause all it did was make zergs stronger. Plus when your 1v1 someone and it hits you out of nowhere for 14 k is complete bs. It's supposed to explode in death and a bunch of times I was nowhere near death until that hit. That's why I said it's broken and rediculious that they would put something like that in. It's sad really cause every time there's a good Mmo the creators go and mess it up. Look at WOW. It had great pvp till they gave all the players that crying about ganking a base resilence that made you hard earned pvp gear useless and caused half the players to quit the game. Putting in op gear and moves doesn't fix the problems. All it does is cause people who like competitive pvp to rage quit.

Astrotaz wrote: »

REMOVE VD and Proxi det combo --- cheep 1 shot kill

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Astrotaz wrote: »

REMOVE VD and Proxi det combo --- cheep 1 shot kill

So we can have a stale tornado meta instead?

What did DAOC have?

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I got killed this way while sewer grinding with just one other person... am I a zerg now? This set is ridiculous in combination with Proxy Det, which works on mobs as well as players and actually gains strength from all the mobs you pull.

Talcyndl wrote: »

They should have removed Prox Det and made two morphs like Inevitable Det (ie, cast on others). One morph would be magicka and one stamina. That would have made it possible to use the skill against large stacked groups, but removed the abusive use of it by those same groups.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Jimbohere wrote: »

There's no way this is working as intended. It's supposed to explode when you kill a enemy player but I just got hit for 11k with no other players around. Yes I was getting ganked. Pvp is so unbalanced to begin with and they go and throw this in. Good god are they trying to ruin pvp all together ?

It s a visual bug. Tested by the community and confirmed by zos. IT will show up in death recap, but did not proc on you until you were dead. stay tuned, sypher said he would make a video on it.

BossTuggles wrote: »

Was there a deer, wolf, or any other rat like creature near you? I would not put it pass them that these things dieng would cause it.

It is supposed to only proc on players not npc. that said, whether or not it unintentionally procs on critters am not sure. However, i do know it wont proc on npc outside o the little critters

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Get killed couple of times yesterday by people with VD, while server was laggy and noticed: VD proc when you get killing blow, procs, and after that you dying from killing blow, so it doesn't actually kills you, it's even gives you something like 100ms to do something before dying

GRxKnight wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

The set does not deal damage to the person who dies to proc it, but their proc does appear on their death recap. It's just a UI bug.

Yeah, the same as camohunter doubleproc: it's just UI bug which deals damage with NO ETA to fix it.

Ive been using this set for while now and it often seems to proc after you kill someone but it doesnt actually do any dmg, they already died to the attack before VD explosion.

In a 1v1 situation the one using VD actually has a pretty big disadvantage because they could have a lot more spell dmg if they were using a different 5pc set.

It's not that big as you trying to show in fact, yes it's lack of damage in comparison with willpower+torug, but not huge, and you get spellcrit which also can be considered as direct dps increase.

Most VD users will already use Willpower because its the best 3pc magicka set in the game.

So if I would choose not to run 5x VD I could equip 4x Overwhelming and 1x Molag Kena.

258 spell dmg extra (unbuffed) > 258 x 1,20 = 310 spell dmg extra (buffed)

Pretty big difference if you ask me.

The goal is to kill a group of people in a chain reaction to a bomb....overwhelming and Kena cannot do this with aoe caps

Does someone really kills zergs with VD? Most of the times i see VD users as part of zergs.

This. Almost all of our dps are in it, and I know it's true for other groups. It's what happened with prox det all over again, including the new and revamped anti-group prox det

We warned people as soon as this set was revealed on PTS what would happen. We warned people what would happen with prox det, with siege, with rapids. Now we have the meta that we do and ww2 have been silent on their clustereff patch for about a month. Hopefully the silence is indicative of a personnel change.

I'm not sure what you warned us of?

That Magicka DPS would use a set that hurts the most dominate strategy in the game?

That's like saying you warned everyone Water is Wet.

No, that magicka dps in groups would use this and the other broken components of the meta just as much if not more than the try hards like you and the game would remain just as broken because the fundamental issues have yet to be addressed. Every time you celebrate a stupid set like this you're indicating to ww2 that half-baked fixes are fine and they can continue doing so. VD should have been met with a unanimous "NO, fix aoe caps and relevant combat mechanics, an item set is not an acceptable fix, even temporarily - not when these problems have been around for as long as they have been."

Only they stated they weren't going to remove AOE caps.

What you're suggesting is to Just Wish it into existance despite all evidence pointing to it not happening no matter hard you wish.

I mean..I've made countless videos on why AOE caps should be removed...I've talked about it A LOT longer then you have... Hell Lowbei got banned from these forums because he kept bringing it up...

Know whats still in the game? AoE caps...So i'm tired of telling them to do what should of been done over a year ago...I'll take VD and blow up anyone who's stacking.

They also said they'd never do away with subs, and that vet levels wouldn't be removed. The latter happened because there was a strong enough and a prolonged enough outcry. You can't get a strong enough outcry when they test the waters with a stupid set like VD and people tacitly or outright approve of it; that tells ww2 that it's sufficient when it's not.

[minor edit for quote]

The driving force behind sub removals and b2p was because zos was not going to make console players pay for their monthly online subscriptions and a game subscription. it is bad business. The removal of vet ranks decision actually occured before launch date. It was just too late and close to launch when the decision was made.

To those people saying get rid of set and remove aoe caps....
I am 100% in support of removal of aoe caps. However, this will not cure the issue many people associate with this set. In fact, it will make it worse. Many people complain that it is a cheese one shot to groups. this issue will be worse with aoe cap removal.Think about it. A player using is set with say proxy and soul tether have to kill players first before the set works. The set then explodes causing more damage to others. The intial kills that proc this set are minimal. say 3-6. why? because aoe caps protect the others. so this set is a way aound aoe caps because the players that received less damage now have less protection from aoe caps and upon teammate death take full damage from vd and killing them. So, the initial damage before vd proc was enough to kill most players, but many dont die because of aoe caps.

Lets say we remove aoe caps and the player is running proxy and soul tether combo without vd. Now that player can bomb that group and not need a proc of vd to wipe most of the group. As stated above, the damage before vd is enough to kill most players, but aoe caps protect them. In this case, there is no protection from aoe caps and the whole raid will likely wipe without having to realy on a set. Which means the player can get even more raw damage from another set and wipe even more people then before.

Ultimately, championing the removal of this set and adding aoe caps to address the issue of one shot raids, but it will make that particular issue worse. So, dont use that as a reason for removing this set and aoe caps. Again, i am for aoe cap removal, just not based on this logic proposed in many threads thus far.

GRxKnight wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Jimbohere wrote: »

There's no way this is working as intended. It's supposed to explode when you kill a enemy player but I just got hit for 11k with no other players around. Yes I was getting ganked. Pvp is so unbalanced to begin with and they go and throw this in. Good god are they trying to ruin pvp all together ?

It s a visual bug. Tested by the community and confirmed by zos. IT will show up in death recap, but did not proc on you until you were dead. stay tuned, sypher said he would make a video on it.

BossTuggles wrote: »

Was there a deer, wolf, or any other rat like creature near you? I would not put it pass them that these things dieng would cause it.

It is supposed to only proc on players not npc. that said, whether or not it unintentionally procs on critters am not sure. However, i do know it wont proc on npc outside o the little critters

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Get killed couple of times yesterday by people with VD, while server was laggy and noticed: VD proc when you get killing blow, procs, and after that you dying from killing blow, so it doesn't actually kills you, it's even gives you something like 100ms to do something before dying

GRxKnight wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

The set does not deal damage to the person who dies to proc it, but their proc does appear on their death recap. It's just a UI bug.

Yeah, the same as camohunter doubleproc: it's just UI bug which deals damage with NO ETA to fix it.

Ive been using this set for while now and it often seems to proc after you kill someone but it doesnt actually do any dmg, they already died to the attack before VD explosion.

In a 1v1 situation the one using VD actually has a pretty big disadvantage because they could have a lot more spell dmg if they were using a different 5pc set.

It's not that big as you trying to show in fact, yes it's lack of damage in comparison with willpower+torug, but not huge, and you get spellcrit which also can be considered as direct dps increase.

Most VD users will already use Willpower because its the best 3pc magicka set in the game.

So if I would choose not to run 5x VD I could equip 4x Overwhelming and 1x Molag Kena.

258 spell dmg extra (unbuffed) > 258 x 1,20 = 310 spell dmg extra (buffed)

Pretty big difference if you ask me.

The goal is to kill a group of people in a chain reaction to a bomb....overwhelming and Kena cannot do this with aoe caps

Does someone really kills zergs with VD? Most of the times i see VD users as part of zergs.

This. Almost all of our dps are in it, and I know it's true for other groups. It's what happened with prox det all over again, including the new and revamped anti-group prox det

We warned people as soon as this set was revealed on PTS what would happen. We warned people what would happen with prox det, with siege, with rapids. Now we have the meta that we do and ww2 have been silent on their clustereff patch for about a month. Hopefully the silence is indicative of a personnel change.

I'm not sure what you warned us of?

That Magicka DPS would use a set that hurts the most dominate strategy in the game?

That's like saying you warned everyone Water is Wet.

No, that magicka dps in groups would use this and the other broken components of the meta just as much if not more than the try hards like you and the game would remain just as broken because the fundamental issues have yet to be addressed. Every time you celebrate a stupid set like this you're indicating to ww2 that half-baked fixes are fine and they can continue doing so. VD should have been met with a unanimous "NO, fix aoe caps and relevant combat mechanics, an item set is not an acceptable fix, even temporarily - not when these problems have been around for as long as they have been."

Only they stated they weren't going to remove AOE caps.

What you're suggesting is to Just Wish it into existance despite all evidence pointing to it not happening no matter hard you wish.

I mean..I've made countless videos on why AOE caps should be removed...I've talked about it A LOT longer then you have... Hell Lowbei got banned from these forums because he kept bringing it up...

Know whats still in the game? AoE caps...So i'm tired of telling them to do what should of been done over a year ago...I'll take VD and blow up anyone who's stacking.

They also said they'd never do away with subs, and that vet levels wouldn't be removed. The latter happened because there was a strong enough and a prolonged enough outcry. You can't get a strong enough outcry when they test the waters with a stupid set like VD and people tacitly or outright approve of it; that tells ww2 that it's sufficient when it's not.

[minor edit for quote]

The driving force behind sub removals and b2p was because zos was not going to make console players pay for their monthly online subscriptions and a game subscription. it is bad business. The removal of vet ranks decision actually occured before launch date. It was just too late and close to launch when the decision was made.

To those people saying get rid of set and remove aoe caps....
I am 100% in support of removal of aoe caps. However, this will not cure the issue many people associate with this set. In fact, it will make it worse. Many people complain that it is a cheese one shot to groups. this issue will be worse with aoe cap removal.Think about it. A player using is set with say proxy and soul tether have to kill players first before the set works. The set then explodes causing more damage to others. The intial kills that proc this set are minimal. say 3-6. why? because aoe caps protect the others. so this set is a way aound aoe caps because the players that received less damage now have less protection from aoe caps and upon teammate death take full damage from vd and killing them. So, the initial damage before vd proc was enough to kill most players, but many dont die because of aoe caps.

Lets say we remove aoe caps and the player is running proxy and soul tether combo without vd. Now that player can bomb that group and not need a proc of vd to wipe most of the group. As stated above, the damage before vd is enough to kill most players, but aoe caps protect them. In this case, there is no protection from aoe caps and the whole raid will likely wipe without having to realy on a set. Which means the player can get even more raw damage from another set and wipe even more people then before.

Ultimately, championing the removal of this set and adding aoe caps to address the issue of one shot raids, but it will make that particular issue worse. So, dont use that as a reason for removing this set and aoe caps. Again, i am for aoe cap removal, just not based on this logic proposed in many threads thus far.

People are saying to remove aoe caps AND this set...we all are aware what would happen if caps were just removed...nothing would change except groups would probably die that much quicker...we want both removed (and if they remove the set i want compensation for my upgrade mats i used on VD) not just caps...anyone that's knowledgeable of pvp right now knows that stacking multiple people in close proximity to each other is how to win...remove caps and unless you're full potato you'll spread out a bit more in fights to avoid the proxy (which also should probably go if we remove caps and vd)

Edit: added more to the statement

Right, I am saying that many people, not all, are basing their reasoning on removal of aoe caps to replace vd are basing it on the fact that vd is a one shot to groups. I am simply saying that removing this set and aoe caps will simply make that particular issue worse. People will be able to one shot raids without vd and removal of aoe caps more often than with aoe caps and vd set.

As Zheg has just also said damage will need to be scaled down a bit as well...but IMO the close tight stacking that we're seeing in this game is causing lag and if the removal of AoE caps means that it'll be just as easy, if not easier, to wipe these groups then they should stop being potatoes. If AoE caps were done away with you won't see groups like Haxus, VE, Victorem (I.E. the elite guilds) running tightly stacked. They'll adapt and figure out what's best. But to the other groups out there that rely on numbers to win (you know who you are) they'll be slaughtered left and right and forced to adapt. This game was fine back without damage mitigation in the AoE caps, why change what wasn't broken

Satiar wrote: »

I swear it's not just a recap glitch. I see the VD explosion prox on medium/low health targets and blow them away all the time.

Zheg wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Jimbohere wrote: »

There's no way this is working as intended. It's supposed to explode when you kill a enemy player but I just got hit for 11k with no other players around. Yes I was getting ganked. Pvp is so unbalanced to begin with and they go and throw this in. Good god are they trying to ruin pvp all together ?

It s a visual bug. Tested by the community and confirmed by zos. IT will show up in death recap, but did not proc on you until you were dead. stay tuned, sypher said he would make a video on it.

BossTuggles wrote: »

Was there a deer, wolf, or any other rat like creature near you? I would not put it pass them that these things dieng would cause it.

It is supposed to only proc on players not npc. that said, whether or not it unintentionally procs on critters am not sure. However, i do know it wont proc on npc outside o the little critters

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Get killed couple of times yesterday by people with VD, while server was laggy and noticed: VD proc when you get killing blow, procs, and after that you dying from killing blow, so it doesn't actually kills you, it's even gives you something like 100ms to do something before dying

GRxKnight wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

The set does not deal damage to the person who dies to proc it, but their proc does appear on their death recap. It's just a UI bug.

Yeah, the same as camohunter doubleproc: it's just UI bug which deals damage with NO ETA to fix it.

Ive been using this set for while now and it often seems to proc after you kill someone but it doesnt actually do any dmg, they already died to the attack before VD explosion.

In a 1v1 situation the one using VD actually has a pretty big disadvantage because they could have a lot more spell dmg if they were using a different 5pc set.

It's not that big as you trying to show in fact, yes it's lack of damage in comparison with willpower+torug, but not huge, and you get spellcrit which also can be considered as direct dps increase.

Most VD users will already use Willpower because its the best 3pc magicka set in the game.

So if I would choose not to run 5x VD I could equip 4x Overwhelming and 1x Molag Kena.

258 spell dmg extra (unbuffed) > 258 x 1,20 = 310 spell dmg extra (buffed)

Pretty big difference if you ask me.

The goal is to kill a group of people in a chain reaction to a bomb....overwhelming and Kena cannot do this with aoe caps

Does someone really kills zergs with VD? Most of the times i see VD users as part of zergs.

This. Almost all of our dps are in it, and I know it's true for other groups. It's what happened with prox det all over again, including the new and revamped anti-group prox det

We warned people as soon as this set was revealed on PTS what would happen. We warned people what would happen with prox det, with siege, with rapids. Now we have the meta that we do and ww2 have been silent on their clustereff patch for about a month. Hopefully the silence is indicative of a personnel change.

I'm not sure what you warned us of?

That Magicka DPS would use a set that hurts the most dominate strategy in the game?

That's like saying you warned everyone Water is Wet.

No, that magicka dps in groups would use this and the other broken components of the meta just as much if not more than the try hards like you and the game would remain just as broken because the fundamental issues have yet to be addressed. Every time you celebrate a stupid set like this you're indicating to ww2 that half-baked fixes are fine and they can continue doing so. VD should have been met with a unanimous "NO, fix aoe caps and relevant combat mechanics, an item set is not an acceptable fix, even temporarily - not when these problems have been around for as long as they have been."

Only they stated they weren't going to remove AOE caps.

What you're suggesting is to Just Wish it into existance despite all evidence pointing to it not happening no matter hard you wish.

I mean..I've made countless videos on why AOE caps should be removed...I've talked about it A LOT longer then you have... Hell Lowbei got banned from these forums because he kept bringing it up...

Know whats still in the game? AoE caps...So i'm tired of telling them to do what should of been done over a year ago...I'll take VD and blow up anyone who's stacking.

They also said they'd never do away with subs, and that vet levels wouldn't be removed. The latter happened because there was a strong enough and a prolonged enough outcry. You can't get a strong enough outcry when they test the waters with a stupid set like VD and people tacitly or outright approve of it; that tells ww2 that it's sufficient when it's not.

[minor edit for quote]

The driving force behind sub removals and b2p was because zos was not going to make console players pay for their monthly online subscriptions and a game subscription. it is bad business. The removal of vet ranks decision actually occured before launch date. It was just too late and close to launch when the decision was made.

To those people saying get rid of set and remove aoe caps....
I am 100% in support of removal of aoe caps. However, this will not cure the issue many people associate with this set. In fact, it will make it worse. Many people complain that it is a cheese one shot to groups. this issue will be worse with aoe cap removal.Think about it. A player using is set with say proxy and soul tether have to kill players first before the set works. The set then explodes causing more damage to others. The intial kills that proc this set are minimal. say 3-6. why? because aoe caps protect the others. so this set is a way aound aoe caps because the players that received less damage now have less protection from aoe caps and upon teammate death take full damage from vd and killing them. So, the initial damage before vd proc was enough to kill most players, but many dont die because of aoe caps.

Lets say we remove aoe caps and the player is running proxy and soul tether combo without vd. Now that player can bomb that group and not need a proc of vd to wipe most of the group. As stated above, the damage before vd is enough to kill most players, but aoe caps protect them. In this case, there is no protection from aoe caps and the whole raid will likely wipe without having to realy on a set. Which means the player can get even more raw damage from another set and wipe even more people then before.

Ultimately, championing the removal of this set and adding aoe caps to address the issue of one shot raids, but it will make that particular issue worse. So, dont use that as a reason for removing this set and aoe caps. Again, i am for aoe cap removal, just not based on this logic proposed in many threads thus far.

People are saying to remove aoe caps AND this set...we all are aware what would happen if caps were just removed...nothing would change except groups would probably die that much quicker...we want both removed (and if they remove the set i want compensation for my upgrade mats i used on VD) not just caps...anyone that's knowledgeable of pvp right now knows that stacking multiple people in close proximity to each other is how to win...remove caps and unless you're full potato you'll spread out a bit more in fights to avoid the proxy (which also should probably go if we remove caps and vd)

Edit: added more to the statement

Right, I am saying that many people, not all, are basing their reasoning on removal of aoe caps to replace vd are basing it on the fact that vd is a one shot to groups. I am simply saying that removing this set and aoe caps will simply make that particular issue worse. People will be able to one shot raids without vd and removal of aoe caps more often than with aoe caps and vd set.

As Zheg has just also said damage will need to be scaled down a bit as well...but IMO the close tight stacking that we're seeing in this game is causing lag and if the removal of AoE caps means that it'll be just as easy, if not easier, to wipe these groups then they should stop being potatoes. If AoE caps were done away with you won't see groups like Haxus, VE, Victorem (I.E. the elite guilds) running tightly stacked. They'll adapt and figure out what's best. But to the other groups out there that rely on numbers to win (you know who you are) they'll be slaughtered left and right and forced to adapt. This game was fine back without damage mitigation in the AoE caps, why change what wasn't broken

I think it's optimistic to say stacking won't happen. It's already dangerous to stack, but you need to do so to focus your dps and quickly kill, so you drop a nova and yell at everyone to hold block. Then you get hit by bugged emperor siege for 40k damage because #ww2trololol xD

Also, if we're being honest, are elite pvp guilds even going to be a thing much longer? All of them have said they're leaving the game, and on average I see fewer and fewer of their members playing. I know people will disagree, but I see the degradation of maps and explosion of numbers at fights in this meta being due at least in part to the exodus of pvp guilds.