And this arrived in my e-mail today

Samadhi · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Wait... you don't play a videogame if the only character to play is male?

Would like to chime in on this one.

Generally avoid games with exclusively male protagonists.
Mixed casts are fine, and there are exceptions:
Played through the entirety of GTA5 story mode, but after finishing it and unlocking vehicles I only log into it to buy cars for Directors mode -- all my playtime since has been spread out across my two female Online characters.
Witcher 3 I bought because people told me it was "like Skyrim but better" but I cannot bother completing it. I love Ciri, and I like the storyline, but playing as Geralt just does not connect for me.
Metal Gear Solid 5 lost my attention until I found out I could swap my character model to female, then I went back and played it.

In something like XCOM 2, I make my entire team of soldiers female with their own unique personalities.

The ability to design a character including gender, or at very least play as a female character for the majority of the game has become an increasingly big deal to me in the past decade.

Did however grow up playing male-dominated titles in gaming without issues.
The power of choice and proliferation of variety in gaming titles and changed that though -- now I can afford to be picky with what I play, and indeed, I might not be able to afford not to be.

Gidorick · April 2016

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

...
So I guess I generally do not relate to male characters in video games. Meh.

Geeze... I kind of feel bad for you and others who have a hard time relating or enjoying a narrative because of the gender of the lead character... so many awesome adventures will never be seen... bummer.

Anyway... RERAIL OF TOPIC!

I'm surprised to see that there was ANYTHING that could get you to drop your sub Irish. We have gone at it on some other threads regarding other issues and you have always been a staunch supporter. I recently said to a friend of mine that "ZOS seems to systematically trying to alienate and drive away each and every one of it's customers."

This seems to support that tin-foil hat comment.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · April 2016

You may not be off @Gidorick I dropped my sub last week and I really thought I'd be subbing to end

IrishGirlGamer · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I must say i absolutely understand @IrishGirlGamer. I, middle aged male, have a strange problem - really cant get into playing female characters. Luckily for me absolute most games either have only male characters, or have mixed cast.

Kalfis wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Wait... you don't play a videogame if the only character to play is male?

I do the same if the only character to play is a female. It turns me off. I don't like playing as women in anything.
I don't mind if the entire game isn't female only. Like The Witcher 3, I liked the Ciri sections because they were a minor part of the game.

People have their preferences....

Wow... erm... thanks @IrishGirlGamer , @sadownik and @Kalfis for educating me on this... I had absolutely NO idea this was actually a thing. Granted, when I have the choice, I play male characters but I can't imagine never having played Tomb Raider (the newest series is AMAZING), Beyond Good and Evil, Silent Hill 3, The Longest Journey, Parasite Eve, Syberia, Mirror's Edge, Medal of Honor, Underground, Metroid, Alien Isolation, or Portal! Not to mention, there are throngs of games that are good (not great) like Primal, Wet, Oni, Heavenly Sword, Beyond Two Souls, American McGee's Alice, and No One Lives Forever.

What about games that have you play a mixed cast @sadownik & @IrishGirlGamer ? Like Heavy Rain, Resident Evil, or Final Fantasy? Do any of you find you can't get into games that have you swap characters throughout the game and from one gender to the next?

Okay, I've played:

Tomb Raider (hated the shorts, loved the guns)
Silent Hill 3 (meh, I didn't play it that long).
Resident Evil

I haven't played Final Fantasy because it didn't appeal to me. Again, Meh.

Mirror's Edge is great. It's an awesome game and I love it.

But you're right @Gidorick: I remembered that I have played all the Bioshock series and they are male only.

Do you enjoy games that feature a strong female in a prominent roll more? like... do you think you enjoyed Bioshock Infinite more because of Elizabeth?... she was an amazing character by the way.

Do you know what my secret love is? Strategy games. Games where I can take over the world as a woman ruler. Mount and Blade Warband. CKII. EU4 (particularly as Isabella of Castile ... we LOVE Isabella.) I have hundreds of hours in CKII.

Gidorick wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

...
So I guess I generally do not relate to male characters in video games. Meh.

Geeze... I kind of feel bad for you and others who have a hard time relating or enjoying a narrative because of the gender of the lead character... so many awesome adventures will never be seen... bummer.

Anyway... RERAIL OF TOPIC!

I'm surprised to see that there was ANYTHING that could get you to drop your sub Irish. We have gone at it on some other threads regarding other issues and you have always been a staunch supporter. I recently said to a friend of mine that "ZOS seems to systematically trying to alienate and drive away each and every one of it's customers."

This seems to support that tin-foil hat comment.

I love ESO. I love the idea and I love the original vision of the game. I hate this decision.

I've truly enjoyed your ideas for improving the game, complete with pictures. We liked the pictures.

Seraseth · April 2016

For me it depends on the game. In a game with a specific storyline, it doesn't bother me playing a male lead, because it's 'his' story. For something more immersive/sandbox where I'm making the choices, I can't connect to a male character at all. It's why in the dozens of mmo's I've played over the years I've never had a single male character.

Ichnaea · April 2016

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

You may not be off @Gidorick I dropped my sub last week and I really thought I'd be subbing to end

Welcome to the dark side!

MissBizz · April 2016

Sorry to read that. Everyone has things that are most important to them, and it's unfortunate that something very important to you was messed up. I personally also find the new armor quite distasteful due to the awkward body shaping on my female characters. I hope that Zos changes their mind on at least future female costumes and armor so that many people actually enjoy what their female character is wearing, and so you can sub to a game you love again!

On that other point @Gidorick I also find myself playing mostly games with the choice to play as a female. Sure, I may not completely avoid a game if it only has a male only cast, but I usually don't get as into the game. I enjoy relating to my character and in some weird way the gender gap will stop that. I don't even know why, but it's weird to play a male character.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · April 2016

Dark side doesn't feel bad, but I usually only play games I sub too. Have logged in occasionally since drop but meh. And oddly enough I just recently created a sixth jugger over in swtor Lol.

Also I related to Croc but idk what that says about me

also always wished there was a option to play as a gobbo

Also loved Abe from oddworld but once again i think that just means my mind is beyond gone.

KatzMainTank · April 2016

I might actually consider subbing if they do indeed change this, alongside many other things on my list. Until then...

Gidorick · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Sorry to read that. Everyone has things that are most important to them, and it's unfortunate that something very important to you was messed up. I personally also find the new armor quite distasteful due to the awkward body shaping on my female characters. I hope that Zos changes their mind on at least future female costumes and armor so that many people actually enjoy what their female character is wearing, and so you can sub to a game you love again!

On that other point @Gidorick I also find myself playing mostly games with the choice to play as a female. Sure, I may not completely avoid a game if it only has a male only cast, but I usually don't get as into the game. I enjoy relating to my character and in some weird way the gender gap will stop that. I don't even know why, but it's weird to play a male character.

I don't personally feel that gender gap @MissBizz. I never have. I actually felt a genuine connection to Jade, the female protagonist of Beyond Good and Evil. (If ANYONE that likes to play female protagonist games hasn't played BG&E... do so. now.

)

Now, that being said... I never CHOOSE to play as a female if I have the choice. This is because games which let me make a character, I always make an "avatar" of myself. While it may not look like me, the character represents me. Lara Croft doesn't represent me, but I can still empathize to her and relate to her motivations. Motivations are rarely female or male motivations... they are human motivations.

Hmm... interesting question: do you ever find yourself turned off of a videogame because of hypersexualization of playable female characters?... Probably "other MMOs" fall into this category but the game I'm specifically thinking of can only be described as a "B-Horror videogame"... Lollipop Chainsaw.

Same question for guys... are you ever turned off of a videogame because of the depiction of the male protagonist in a videogame?

Arobain · April 2016

apparently, new clothing motifs that are completely optional to wear, and wouldn't have even said anything if there were no new motifs, are a gamebreaker............

Bfish22090 · April 2016

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno & @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

After 671 days of continuous subscription, I received this in my e-mail today:

Greetings,

This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your ESO Plus™ membership. You will no longer be charged for membership on a recurring basis, and your access to ESO Plus™ benefits will expire at the end of your current membership.

We're sorry you've chosen to end your membership. If you find yourself missing the great ESO Plus™ benefits, you can join again at any time! Whenever you're ready, visit your Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited account page and select a new membership plan.

Please print this email and keep it for your records.

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

I'm certain there are people who've subbed longer. And you probably won't miss my money even a little bit. I suspect you'll close this thread or sink it ASAP.

But for a moment, I want you to understand why this is important to me. If Zenimax Online Systems makes the conscious decision to force female characters to use a male shaped clothing and armor models - and if I continue to pay my subscription - than I have acquiesced and agreed to your change. And I would never in good conscious do that.

I have played dozens of video games in my life. RPGs. Strategy games. First person shooters. Puzzle games. Games made by Bethesda, Gearbox, Sony, From Software, Paradox and a dozen other companies.

If ever I buy a video game, load it, and see I am forced to play a male only character, then I will generally shut it down and stop playing. Seriously. I played Witcher for like six minutes and never again.

I know this isn't the most critical problem facing women or the world today. I get that. But my gender is important to me. If you change the decision, I'll probably renew my subscription. If you don't, I absolutely promise you I won't - ever.

Thank you for the 671 days. I've really enjoyed the benefits of my sub. I'm hoping you'll change your decision so I can resub again.

Irish

[Edit: Credit to @Gidorick for helping me recall some of the male-only games I've played, like the Bioshock series.)

That is the worst reason to stop subbing.
How about the lag in pvp?

Ichnaea · April 2016

Bfish22090 wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno & @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

After 671 days of continuous subscription, I received this in my e-mail today:

Greetings,

This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your ESO Plus™ membership. You will no longer be charged for membership on a recurring basis, and your access to ESO Plus™ benefits will expire at the end of your current membership.

We're sorry you've chosen to end your membership. If you find yourself missing the great ESO Plus™ benefits, you can join again at any time! Whenever you're ready, visit your Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited account page and select a new membership plan.

Please print this email and keep it for your records.

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

I'm certain there are people who've subbed longer. And you probably won't miss my money even a little bit. I suspect you'll close this thread or sink it ASAP.

But for a moment, I want you to understand why this is important to me. If Zenimax Online Systems makes the conscious decision to force female characters to use a male shaped clothing and armor models - and if I continue to pay my subscription - than I have acquiesced and agreed to your change. And I would never in good conscious do that.

I have played dozens of video games in my life. RPGs. Strategy games. First person shooters. Puzzle games. Games made by Bethesda, Gearbox, Sony, From Software, Paradox and a dozen other companies.

If ever I buy a video game, load it, and see I am forced to play a male only character, then I will generally shut it down and stop playing. Seriously. I played Witcher for like six minutes and never again.

I know this isn't the most critical problem facing women or the world today. I get that. But my gender is important to me. If you change the decision, I'll probably renew my subscription. If you don't, I absolutely promise you I won't - ever.

Thank you for the 671 days. I've really enjoyed the benefits of my sub. I'm hoping you'll change your decision so I can resub again.

Irish

[Edit: Credit to @Gidorick for helping me recall some of the male-only games I've played, like the Bioshock series.)

That is the worst reason to stop subbing.
How about the lag in pvp?

If it's important to them then obviously it's a good reason. That's like someone that doesn't pvp telling someone that does, that quitting because of the lag in PVP is dumb. It's all relative, man. And this is coming from a hardcore PVP'er. Stop focusing PVP vs PVE, ERP vs RP, Casual vs Hardcore. Honestly, be pissed at Zos. Seriously.

Gidorick · April 2016

Ichnaea wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno & @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

After 671 days of continuous subscription, I received this in my e-mail today:

Greetings,

This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your ESO Plus™ membership. You will no longer be charged for membership on a recurring basis, and your access to ESO Plus™ benefits will expire at the end of your current membership.

We're sorry you've chosen to end your membership. If you find yourself missing the great ESO Plus™ benefits, you can join again at any time! Whenever you're ready, visit your Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited account page and select a new membership plan.

Please print this email and keep it for your records.

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls® Online Team

I'm certain there are people who've subbed longer. And you probably won't miss my money even a little bit. I suspect you'll close this thread or sink it ASAP.

But for a moment, I want you to understand why this is important to me. If Zenimax Online Systems makes the conscious decision to force female characters to use a male shaped clothing and armor models - and if I continue to pay my subscription - than I have acquiesced and agreed to your change. And I would never in good conscious do that.

I have played dozens of video games in my life. RPGs. Strategy games. First person shooters. Puzzle games. Games made by Bethesda, Gearbox, Sony, From Software, Paradox and a dozen other companies.

If ever I buy a video game, load it, and see I am forced to play a male only character, then I will generally shut it down and stop playing. Seriously. I played Witcher for like six minutes and never again.

I know this isn't the most critical problem facing women or the world today. I get that. But my gender is important to me. If you change the decision, I'll probably renew my subscription. If you don't, I absolutely promise you I won't - ever.

Thank you for the 671 days. I've really enjoyed the benefits of my sub. I'm hoping you'll change your decision so I can resub again.

Irish

[Edit: Credit to @Gidorick for helping me recall some of the male-only games I've played, like the Bioshock series.)

That is the worst reason to stop subbing.
How about the lag in pvp?

If it's important to them then obviously it's a good reason. That's like someone that doesn't pvp telling someone that does, that quitting because of the lag in PVP is dumb. It's all relative, man. And this is coming from a hardcore PVP'er. Stop focusing PVP vs PVE, ERP vs RP, Casual vs Hardcore. Honestly, be pissed at Zos. Seriously.

lol @Ichnaea ... and ZOS seems to be angering each one of those types of players one by one.

MissBizz · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Sorry to read that. Everyone has things that are most important to them, and it's unfortunate that something very important to you was messed up. I personally also find the new armor quite distasteful due to the awkward body shaping on my female characters. I hope that Zos changes their mind on at least future female costumes and armor so that many people actually enjoy what their female character is wearing, and so you can sub to a game you love again!

On that other point @Gidorick I also find myself playing mostly games with the choice to play as a female. Sure, I may not completely avoid a game if it only has a male only cast, but I usually don't get as into the game. I enjoy relating to my character and in some weird way the gender gap will stop that. I don't even know why, but it's weird to play a male character.

I don't personally feel that gender gap @MissBizz. I never have. I actually felt a genuine connection to Jade, the female protagonist of Beyond Good and Evil. (If ANYONE that likes to play female protagonist games hasn't played BG&E... do so. now. )

Now, that being said... I never CHOOSE to play as a female if I have the choice. This is because games which let me make a character, I always make an "avatar" of myself. While it may not look like me, the character represents me. Lara Croft doesn't represent me, but I can still empathize to her and relate to her motivations. Motivations are rarely female or male motivations... they are human motivations.

Hmm... interesting question: do you ever find yourself turned off of a videogame because of hypersexualization of playable female characters?... Probably "other MMOs" fall into this category but the game I'm specifically thinking of can only be described as a "B-Horror videogame"... Lollipop Chainsaw.

Same question for guys... are you ever turned off of a videogame because of the depiction of the male protagonist in a videogame?

Usually the games that oversexualize females arent my cup of tea anyways, although that would not be my reason why. Yes, like I said I will play games as a male if I must, but it feels a bit weird. Of course a good game is a good game but with the amount of games out these days there is often a game just as good that will allow me to play a female.

Kozer · April 2016

Thank god someone came to the forums to let us know they are not longer subbed.

I play games if they have a male or female lead. As long as I have fun with the gameplay the model that I am is something I hardly notice.

I get it, the decision is stupid, but the fact you had to post about your sub cancellation annoys me.

Ichnaea · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Sorry to read that. Everyone has things that are most important to them, and it's unfortunate that something very important to you was messed up. I personally also find the new armor quite distasteful due to the awkward body shaping on my female characters. I hope that Zos changes their mind on at least future female costumes and armor so that many people actually enjoy what their female character is wearing, and so you can sub to a game you love again!

On that other point @Gidorick I also find myself playing mostly games with the choice to play as a female. Sure, I may not completely avoid a game if it only has a male only cast, but I usually don't get as into the game. I enjoy relating to my character and in some weird way the gender gap will stop that. I don't even know why, but it's weird to play a male character.

I don't personally feel that gender gap @MissBizz. I never have. I actually felt a genuine connection to Jade, the female protagonist of Beyond Good and Evil. (If ANYONE that likes to play female protagonist games hasn't played BG&E... do so. now. )

Now, that being said... I never CHOOSE to play as a female if I have the choice. This is because games which let me make a character, I always make an "avatar" of myself. While it may not look like me, the character represents me. Lara Croft doesn't represent me, but I can still empathize to her and relate to her motivations. Motivations are rarely female or male motivations... they are human motivations.

Hmm... interesting question: do you ever find yourself turned off of a videogame because of hypersexualization of playable female characters?... Probably "other MMOs" fall into this category but the game I'm specifically thinking of can only be described as a "B-Horror videogame"... Lollipop Chainsaw.

Same question for guys... are you ever turned off of a videogame because of the depiction of the male protagonist in a videogame?

I've never been turned off by any gender issues...I'm not going to let the possibility of a good game go away because of a preference. Case in point, but off subject, I watch Black Sails. They decided to make the main character (male) bisexual, and show bisexual acts. I don't feel like this is necessary, and didn't care for it, but I didn't stop watching. The show. Of course I stopped watching the dirty business.

audrieltheelf · April 2016

Anyone who, after 671 days, finds a reason to unsub has a valid reason. I'd been subbed since Beta (past tense) and mine just ran out 2 days ago. The lack of fixes, and constant breaking, in a game that I love is the reason I unsubbed. It would take a lot, like a complete restructure of the game itself, to get me to resub and even then I'm not sure I'd be willing to put my money back in to a company that has proven time and time again that their customers (new or old) are worth their time.

Ichnaea · April 2016

Kozer wrote: »

Thank god someone came to the forums to let us know they are not longer subbed.

I play games if they have a male or female lead. As long as I have fun with the gameplay the model that I am is something I hardly notice.

I get it, the decision is stupid, but the fact you had to post about your sub cancellation annoys me.

And the fact that you had to post your annoyance, annoys me

Vangy · April 2016

babylon wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personally I find prudish censorship of sexual identity extremely petty and outmoded.

It isn't even censorship though that IrishGirlGamer and the rest of their female players are upset about - ZOS simply chose to not make armour designed for females at all, they decided instead females would have to make do with the male armour models wrapped over us instead, which is why they look so distorted.

They simply decided we are unimportant.

___________________

They simply decided that females aren't important enough for them to bother putting in the effort to make proper female armour models. I have been protesting this with my breton sorc by going into battle with either my sand-kissed salwar or whisperweft costume and doing the /dancedunmer on rawlkha rock. If I was a girl IRL and had an ESO+ subscription, id have cancelled it too. ZOS needs to pay more respect to its customers needs....

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

I may not be able to relate to having a hard time connecting with characters of the opposite sex. But I can sympathize. Of all 8 characters, two of them are female. And Im probably more attached to them then some of the others (Mostly Enrerion because hes a pompous Altmer and I loathe pompous jerks). Primarily because of the internal backstories I have for them and because they are both Nightblades which lean towards my general MMO Playstyle.

I spent an hour plus on every character in the character creation trying to make sure they were perfect the way I imagined them or atleast as close to what I had imagined. Id be heartbroken if I was to log on one day and my characters had been altered without my knowledge. Or if I had worked hard for a motif/bought one with a particular character in mind. Only to have the character model altered due to the mesh (I still havent figured out what sort of motif Im going to use for Tenarei at end-game that fits her....And I do worry that with the current trend I may have to stick with the Bosmer Light Armor for her).

I really do hope ZOS pulls its head out of its rear end and realizes that this is one of those things you shouldnt skimp on when it comes to development time.

newtinmpls · April 2016

babylon wrote: »

It isn't even censorship though that IrishGirlGamer and the rest of their female players are upset about - ZOS simply chose to not make armour designed for females at all, they decided instead females would have to make do with the male armour models wrapped over us instead, which is why they look so distorted.

I read this the first time, and recalled how weirdly distorted most armor is when looking closely at the chest (on females) and really on both at the forge/crafting station. Yeah, it really does look like the armors are all meshes stretched occasionally weirdly over body shapes.

And when I look at the Mercenary armor (light) on a friend (hubby who plays a female character... Templar in this case) kinda liked the fact that it wasn't "boob armor" and yet still seemed attractive.

But if all the new crap is like this...out of laziness???

I've said for years (heck it's been years I can say that now) that I like this game so much I have two subs....but what I play for is the role-play, and of all the crap that has changed in the game... ever... the hardest things for me to deal with were the horrid changes to redgard light and medium armors. Just... horrible.

So I guess it goes back to each of us has stuff that matters.

Motifs being attractive (which is different than the ubersexy/Asian crap I see advertised) is important to me. Sounds like ZoS disagrees.

Yeah... down the road that might well lead to me un-subbing.

Thanks for the heads up.

Vangy · April 2016

@IrishGirlGamer

I also applaud your strong stance. Too many people in this game come rage on the forums and not do anything about it. As long as we keep handing ZOS our money/subs, they are going to have no incentive to change their ways. More people need to do this. If every unhappy subscriber starts unsubscribing, they are going to have to answer. Right now, ive gone on a boycott of the crown store because I am unhappy with the current state of the game. If they dont make some insane changes, I doubt I will stay beyond TG when DB comes out.

Eshelmen · April 2016

K see ya!

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

K see ya!

Unsubbing does not = Quitting. This is a B2P game which means she and anyone else that unsubs still has access to the games servers. But the only thing that speaks to ZOS is money. By telling them why shes no longer subbing gives them some context to why they lost a customer and a revenue source.

Pepsi2853_ESO · April 2016

i agree. i was planning to buy DLC, but now not until this changes.

Ichnaea · April 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

K see ya!

Unsubbing does not = Quitting. This is a B2P game which means she and anyone else that unsubs still has access to the games servers. But the only thing that speaks to ZOS is money. By telling them why shes no longer subbing gives them some context to why they lost a customer and a revenue source.

Exactly. They want to do F2P? Good for them. Hopefully you make sound decisions to keep people happy enough for that sub, and for those necessary/unnecessary Crown Store purchases. Make people unhappy, on the other hand, and they have the ability to say, "your direction with this game sucks, I hate what you are doing with it, so I'll just play with my friends for free...on your dime". So, more power to all you guys.

Inarre · April 2016

Just chiming in with another perspective. I have no problem playing male titles, but i do find it hard to relate to them. If i have a choice my character is always female (if i dont have a choice the male better be short, fat, and old... For some reason i feel i can relate to a grandpa?) i have a much more enjoyable experience as a female, and indeed invest much more time into the title

Curious is it not that generally the female population is more concerned with how feminine their characters look in different clothes and fashion, yet this was the consumer they decided to cut corners with in the looks department... Just an odd decision to me.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

I can agree that its better to be given the choice of a male or female character. I have noticed a lot more games going that route these days. Its better to be able to appeal to both genders rather than just one. I usually don't mind if I play as a male or female personally but I understand why it makes a difference to others. Hopefully ZOS does some serious design changes to the different styles in the game to make them fit each gender like they are supposed to.

Ichnaea · April 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

K see ya!

You do realize that people unsubbing actually affects you? Please tell me you are not that short-sighted?