Mumyo wrote: »

Just for the record, you have a molag kena julianos all dmg no sustain build and with that, you are trying to show how OP a certain skill is. And you do that with an channeled executioner on a battlefield where noone actually sees what else happens to the enemy.
(I don't think this is a good way to show anything, you could do the exact same thing on many other abilities // going full class cannon and complain about its high damage is not smart)

Don't get me wrong, i dont agree or disagree here.

But what i don't get is that people are so angry about this skill when EVERY magbuild is using Proxdet which is a horrible ability, just as bad as RD next to Overload 16k light attacks which could get way higher numbers on this build.

All ur efforts only for this one ability but not all the other stupid things that one shot people.

That really saddens me the most.
And people on the forums, pls think before you agree to anything shown to you. [snip]

Moderator edit - post edited for flaming/bashing

One my magicka templar ridiculously easy to kill with this skill pick a target at 40% health and they are dead .. range iso incrediable.. they can't dodge it or interupted me at my range plus once I light someone up its so easy to assist on.. This ability is over the top in pvp. TEMPS ARE THE BOMB at the moment..

Did y'all forget that you can simply block the beam? I get it, you're pissed because you're used to Templars being easy targets and nothing to worry about. You used to just save us for last when killing groups. Now you have to play against 3 classes instead of 2.

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

@Alcast did you ever write a post with "working as intended" WB what you exploit all the time?

I prolly could use Light Attacks only and people would call me exploiter and macroer

I don't say anything about macro, i saying about animation cancelling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIz6J_c9GQc
Deal damage before cast was complete, as bonus ruin target player animation and he don't see that he is CC'ed it's more looks like lag

This also happens with a lot of other abilities in lag. It is both for the enemy and yourself annyoing as you can not plan your next move correctly......but this is ESO...ZOS will never fix the game...so ye >.>

Will you make a video of you oneshotting noobs with dark flare on this glass cannon build next?

All damage, shields and heals in the game needs to get toned down.

I got a 12k meteor initial hit yesterday with 5 impen, 34k spell resist, 75 resistant cp, 11 thick skinned, 50 elemental defender.

But let's just take things out of context and nerf templar. Because nothing infuriates me like having a Templar skill on my death recap, that's not right.

Get out of here with the nerf cries against this class. The screams directed at any Templar skill actually killing people fast are insane dude. I have zero belief it will stop with RD. Dark flare is next then purifying light then sweeps.

What in the hell can your build in this video do once all these nerfs people are screaming for land?

It's gonna sit there and die, very quickly.

A magicka glass cannon build can kill people fast in Cyrodiil right now... But this ones a Templar... NERFFF

Purge into a dodge roll, problem solved. Anyone that did that in this video didn't die to OP unstoppable beam.

But who cares about what's actually gonna happen, just make sure Templars are on the bottom so we can all be on our NBs and sorcs. Those should be the only competitive classes in PvP. Didn't you know? Roll a Sorc or NB to PvP.

Keep spamming these threads dudes. It's an argument from repitition and I can tell you I'm pretty worn out of replying as are most Templars.

Guess you'll get your nerfs lmao. Enjoy mag NB Cyrodiil.

I'll still be there but most likely most Templars will reroll or quit after the next wave of nerfs land.

So a sorc that can group up and spam overload for 5mims and hit for 18k+ with 16k frags and but a class with usless ultimates hits you for 20k plus when you have 4k health left is op? L2P almost everyone who is saying op probably doesnt even templar or understand its mechanics there are much more dangerous combos in pvp every body is just crying for no reason. Its just you arent used to a under performing class performing. Thats all give it time the whining will stop

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Again, if you have problems tanking WB spam, it is a problem with your build. I fight frequently magicka templars who can permablock/BoL spam that for days.

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Again, if you have problems tanking WB spam, it is a problem with your build. I fight frequently magicka templars who can permablock/BoL spam that for days.

No, you cannot permablock as a magicka build Frozn. You're so biased I don't even know why people(myself included) respond to you anymore.

Let me get some footage of me, Kithcannon and Aniline spamming WB on @Zheg for 5minutes straight with him perma blocking BoL spamming the whole time. Coming right up.

OdinForge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Not a good comparison.

Impen, healing ward and heals can deal with snipers. Plus you have an additional roll dodge or block option if needed.

Stamina builds cannot dodge RD, and efficient purge cannot be sustained while random Templars simply reapply RD.

Venom arrow completely owns jesus beam/dark flare spammers. So does crushing shock. So do people that have a gap closer and know where the bash button is. So do walls, rocks, and any other los breaking terrain feature.

I don't get the scenario where this is a problem. Soloing as a zerg surfer? If you are in a group, your healer should be purging the second a beam goes out. Of course, if your healer did not keep your health over 50%, maybe the healer is the issue.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Not a good comparison.

Impen, healing ward and heals can deal with snipers. Plus you have an additional roll dodge or block option if needed.

Stamina builds cannot dodge RD, and efficient purge cannot be sustained while random Templars simply reapply RD.

Venom arrow completely owns jesus beam/dark flare spammers. So does crushing shock. So do people that have a gap closer and know where the bash button is. So do walls, rocks, and any other los breaking terrain feature.

I don't get the scenario where this is a problem. Soloing as a zerg surfer? If you are in a group, your healer should be purging the second a beam goes out. Of course, if your healer did not keep your health over 50%, maybe the healer is the issue.

I think this point has been debated to death.

Venom arrow completely owns jesus beam/dark flare spammers. So does crushing shock. So do people that have a gap closer and know where the bash button is. So do walls, rocks, and any other los breaking terrain feature.

Those counters might work fine in a 1v1, I'm sure no one takes issue with countering radiant 1v1. People have issue with radiant in the same way they had issue with flame lash or concealed weapon in 1.6. Back when you couldn't dodge sometimes very big damage. Manageable mostly in a 1v1, but when you had multiple players focusing you 6-7K added up fast.

Snipe is a different type of beast, one that no one really cares about anymore. You can reflect snipe, you can block or dodge snipe. You can ward against snipe, radiant is an execute and when spammed can be harder to deal with, especially for some classes.

AfkNinja wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Those counters might work fine in a 1v1, I'm sure no one takes issue with countering radiant 1v1. People have issue with radiant in the same way they had issue with flame lash or concealed weapon in 1.6. Back when you couldn't dodge sometimes very big damage. Manageable mostly in a 1v1, but when you had multiple players focusing you 6-7K added up fast.

Snipe is a different type of beast, one that no one really cares about anymore. You can reflect snipe, you can block or dodge snipe. You can ward against snipe, radiant is an execute and when spammed can be harder to deal with, especially for some classes.

If it's about group vs group or vs alliance maybe your healer should learn to purge then. How is this a big group issue? You should always have a purge avail in group. If solo slot it, or slot one of the other 20 counters to RD.

I don't see how people think this is a bigger issue than Bomb builds with VD. None of the arguments seem to be changing on either side either, idk why we're even still talking about it at this point. ZOS is gonna do what ZOS wants to do, and it looks like they want RD to work the way it currently does.

It's not about any of the scenarios you mentioned. I speak from a solo perspective, group v group is irrelevant in this discussion I think. How do you even get targeted by RD in a ball group, group v group has its own set of variables.

The effectiveness of a skill varies depending on the scenario, that's a given in ESO. The ultimate problem with RD has always been in its design (both bad for Templar and bad for targets), a ranged channel type skill in a dynamic combat environment, that also serves as a scaling 50% execute. No one complains about NB spamming killers blade or impale, the risk to reward is too high. No one complains about Sorc spamming mages wrath, or anyone spamming executioner.

The risk to reward for Templar is too low, for spamming or even just using RD from a safe distance, where your target doesn't have time to get to you. Again in a 1v1 this wouldn't be an issue thanks to counters that work fine within that specific scenario. But those counters don't work as fine, when you're being chased by many players. The argument that ZOS decrees it so, and so it shall be is pretty shallow. ZOS has a history with not understanding balance with RD, or any ability. It's not fun to constantly be on the receiving end of RD in its current design (or how it was in 1.6 when it first came out).

For the record I never agreed with VD bombing either, it's a band-aid fix.

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Again, if you have problems tanking WB spam, it is a problem with your build. I fight frequently magicka templars who can permablock/BoL spam that for days.

No, you cannot permablock as a magicka build Frozn. You're so biased I don't even know why people(myself included) respond to you anymore.

This.
Magplars look like they can perma block but believe me when i say theres no such thing as a perma blocking magplar build that is viable for pvp. There are magplars that invest a little more into stam 15k+ to have enough to cc break and block 4-5 WBs, but thats it.
I