Magicka Templar needs a "fire and forget" Major Sorcery class buff.

Phinix1 · March 2016

Part of why the class was always lacking and why balance is still an issue.

Stamina weapon users can slot 2H on their backbar and simply activate one long lasting ability (Rally) out of combat to get their 20% damage increase as well as a powerful heal ability.
Sorcerer simply activates Power Surge to get their 20% damage buff, again out of combat. This also grants the Sorcerer a powerful passive healing on critical hits.
Dragon Knight gets Molten Weapons to gain the 20% damage buff, again out of combat. This also buffs the group, can be morphed to either Stamina or Magicka, and can be morphed to increase weapon attacks as well.
Nightblade get the class AOE Sap Essence (stamina morph also) which lets them apply the 20% buff as part of their normal AOE rotation. The Magicka morph also heals you and your party.

Magicka Templar gets... NOTHING?

The only option Magicka Templar has is to slot Entropy from Mages Guild, which requires a target (so to be in combat) to activate, and is useless as part of any normal build.

Thus, Magicka Templar is the only class/spec that has to waste a useless slot on their bar and windup time in combat just to toggle a 20% buff that every other class in the game gets passively.

This has the result of making combat rather clunky as every other class and spec "flow" into the buff. Templar has to pause, apply, micromanage. It is tedious and immersion-breaking.

SUGGESTION

Make using Rushed Ceremony or its morphs grant the Major Sorcery buff for 20-33 seconds.

This would be on par cost and functionality-wise with the Sorcerer Power Surge and Stamina user Rally toggle.

Heal and a buff.

Thanks for reading!

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2016

There's a potion for that...

Dubhliam · March 2016

There is a potion for that.

Phinix1 · March 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

There's a potion for that...

Of course there is.

However, spending tens of thousands of gold to keep a buff up in normal combat for a couple weeks isn't really what I would call an option.

Not when literally every other class and spec has it as part of their normal "bread and butter" rotation.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2016

Is there a reason you're not counting Entropy like Nightblade's Sap it's only in combat and is a part of nearly all mages rotation.

Greiver · March 2016

Potions. They aren't that expensive if you pick up the flowers you run past all day.

Phinix1 · March 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Is there a reason you're not counting Entropy like Nightblade's Sap it's only in combat and is a part of nearly all mages rotation.

Because I have a mage of every other class and never use it. The heal is small and slow and the gain to health morph the equivalent of like a point or two on the stat sheet (or a tick or two of a minor DOT).

It is a single target spell with mediocre damage which makes it cumbersome for 90% of content outside dungeons/trials.

The only reason I can ever imaging considering it is for the Mage Guild passives, but there are generally better options from class passives. For example, my Sorcerer stacks Sorcerer abilities. My DK slots utility. My Nightblade slots Assassination for the crit. Etc.

The main reason I don't consider it part of a rotation is because it doesn't flow like a rotation. There is no room left on the main bad after essential rotation abilities meaning a bar swap is required DURING combat which is clunky and immersion breaking.

Other classes either get to buff out of combat and swap to the main bar before engaging which flows, or gain the ability from one of their main bar AOE/staple abilities, which flows.

The Templar 20% buff does not flow. That is my problem.

Phinix1 · March 2016

Greiver wrote: »

Potions. They aren't that expensive if you pick up the flowers you run past all day.

Trust me, I farm herb more than most people. With the distribution being random, and needing specific herbs for spell power potions, you end up having to farm more than you actually play to get enough to make the potions yourself for any period of time.

Otherwise, it's tens of thousands of gold. People running vMA were dropping HUNDREDS of thousands on potions.

NOT a balanced option.

It sounds like you have never had to experienced popping a potion before every single battle. You would be surprised how many hundreds of potions you will go through in a single day of PVP.

NOT a balanced option.

Not when every other class gets it passively in a way that flows.

This thread is about balance, not about simulating balance via gold sink.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Is there a reason you're not counting Entropy like Nightblade's Sap it's only in combat and is a part of nearly all mages rotation.

Because I have a mage of every other class and never use it. The heal is small and slow and the gain to health morph the equivalent of like a point or two on the stat sheet (or a tick or two of a minor DOT).

It is a single target spell with mediocre damage which makes it cumbersome for 90% of content outside dungeons/trials.

The only reason I can ever imaging considering it is for the Mage Guild passives, but there are generally better options from class passives. For example, my Sorcerer stacks Sorcerer abilities. My DK slots utility. My Nightblade slots Assassination for the crit. Etc.

The main reason I don't consider it part of a rotation is because it doesn't flow like a rotation. There is no room left on the main bad after essential rotation abilities meaning a bar swap is required DURING combat which is clunky and immersion breaking.

Other classes either get to buff out of combat and swap to the main bar before engaging which flows, or gain the ability from one of their main bar AOE/staple abilities, which flows.

The Templar 20% buff does not flow. That is my problem.

You're assuming a lot there. I'm not saying templars shouldn't have major sorcery self buff, but the way you're going about arguing it isn't helping your case imo. Every good player has to swap bars during combat, and how is this immersion breaking in any way? What is to stop you slotting your sorcery buff on your main bar like I and many other players do. Entropy is an instant cast ability so can be animation canceled as part of a dps rotation, this is how I use power surge. Entropy not only gives you a 20% boost to spell damage but on top of that gives a flat 20% damage buff to next attack (empower), it's a viable skill to use for sure. Lastly why do you want to be able to gain major sorcery outside of combat unless you want to gank? My reason for using surge over entropy is simply because surge is a sorc skill, but templars get no bonus from slotting templar skills afaik. Like I said; I'd be fine with templars getting their own self-cast buff but I think you need to come up with some more solid reasons.

Phinix1 · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

You're assuming a lot there. I'm not saying templars shouldn't have major sorcery self buff, but the way you're going about arguing it isn't helping your case imo. Every good player has to swap bars during combat, and how is this immersion breaking in any way?

This requires a more objective analysis of how combat works and what I mean by "flows."

For example on my Sorcerer. All of my main offensive and utility spells are on my main bar. Everything I actually use during 90% of combat. My off bar, or "buff bar" has all my healing, buff, and defensive cooldowns.

OK, so what is the difference swapping on a character with passive buffs? Simply that I can buff BEFORE engaging, have the buffs for my opener which makes taking out priority targets quick and natural, and combat is over by the time I have to swap bars again.

This is 90% or more of fights outside dungeons and trials.

The difference with Templar is you have to swap and/or buff DURING combat with a sub-optimal non-class skill to micro manage those buffs, losing the empowered initial attack, and making combat overall much more clunky.

Swapping before combat vs. swapping during combat. That is the difference.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

What is to stop you slotting your sorcery buff on your main bar like I and many other players do.

I prefer to keep spells I actively use during combat on the same bar so that I don't have to break concentration with bar swaps and toggles during the action.

It improves reaction time and preserves the fluidity of play.

Besides, after Mage Light has gobbled a slot for the passive crit buff, there really isn't much room for another re-buff button on the main bar.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Entropy is an instant cast ability so can be animation canceled as part of a dps rotation, this is how I use power surge.

But you are comparing apples and oranges. The fact that you CAN use a passive buff that can be toggled out of combat on your main action bar, doesn't mean you SHOULD or that most people looking to optimize their builds do. That is why they call is a "buff bar."

Besides, you are missing the point that with passive class abilities you can buff before combat starts, meaning your fully charged heavy attack or nuke opener benefits from it before enemies are running at you. This makes combat more fluid and strategic, vs. clunky and tedious, doing what you "have to do" to set up that buff.

Night Blade is the exception, however the nature of their class synergizes well with their buff ability. They already get massive damage and crit bonus out of stealth, with a stun component. They can teleport in for massive damage on the priority target, and are instantly in range for a powerful AOE better than Impulse that instantly applies the 20% buff without having to swap bars.

I hope I have explained clearly what I mean by "flowing" combat vs. clunky bar-swap micromanaging, and the difference between a "buff bar" and a "buff on bar" setup.

Keep_Door · March 2016

Sap essence also needs a taget

Phinix1 · March 2016

Keep_Door wrote: »

Sap essence also needs a taget

Phinix1 wrote: »

Night Blade is the exception, however the nature of their class synergizes well with their buff ability. They already get massive damage and crit bonus out of stealth, with a stun component. They can teleport in for massive damage on the priority target, and are instantly in range for a powerful AOE better than Impulse that instantly applies the 20% buff without having to swap bars.

A well optimized class ability that synergizes well with the class playstyle vs. a clunky, sub-optimal, single target non-class ability that doesn't.

Yes it is an option. Aside from blowing tens of thousands of gold every day/week on potions it is the ONLY option.

It doesn't make it a GOOD option.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

You're assuming a lot there. I'm not saying templars shouldn't have major sorcery self buff, but the way you're going about arguing it isn't helping your case imo. Every good player has to swap bars during combat, and how is this immersion breaking in any way?

This requires a more objective analysis of how combat works and what I mean by "flows."

For example on my Sorcerer. All of my main offensive and utility spells are on my main bar. Everything I actually use during 90% of combat. My off bar, or "buff bar" has all my healing, buff, and defensive cooldowns.

OK, so what is the difference swapping on a character with passive buffs? Simply that I can buff BEFORE engaging, have the buffs for my opener which makes taking out priority targets quick and natural, and combat is over by the time I have to swap bars again.

This is 90% or more of fights outside dungeons and trials.

The difference with Templar is you have to swap and/or buff DURING combat with a sub-optimal non-class skill to micro manage those buffs, losing the empowered initial attack, and making combat overall much more clunky.

Swapping before combat vs. swapping during combat. That is the difference.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

What is to stop you slotting your sorcery buff on your main bar like I and many other players do.

I prefer to keep spells I actively use during combat on the same bar so that I don't have to break concentration with bar swaps and toggles during the action.

It improves reaction time and preserves the fluidity of play.

Besides, after Mage Light has gobbled a slot for the passive crit buff, there really isn't much room for another re-buff button on the main bar.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Entropy is an instant cast ability so can be animation canceled as part of a dps rotation, this is how I use power surge.

But you are comparing apples and oranges. The fact that you CAN use a passive buff that can be toggled out of combat on your main action bar, doesn't mean you SHOULD or that most people looking to optimize their builds do. That is why they call is a "buff bar."

Besides, you are missing the point that with passive class abilities you can buff before combat starts, meaning your fully charged heavy attack or nuke opener benefits from it before enemies are running at you. This makes combat more fluid and strategic, vs. clunky and tedious, doing what you "have to do" to set up that buff.

Night Blade is the exception, however the nature of their class synergizes well with their buff ability. They already get massive damage and crit bonus out of stealth, with a stun component. They can teleport in for massive damage on the priority target, and are instantly in range for a powerful AOE better than Impulse that instantly applies the 20% buff without having to swap bars.

I hope I have explained clearly what I mean by "flowing" combat vs. clunky bar-swap micromanaging, and the difference between a "buff bar" and a "buff on bar" setup.

I think we might be approaching the issue from different standpoints. I only pvp, I think from what I read that you mainly pve. Therefore continuing to argue with you would be fruitless as I don't know enough about the pve requirements of a templar to say whether you're right or wrong.

From a pvp perspective though there is no "buff bar" only offensive/defensive bars for most. I slot surge (or entropy) on my offensive bar as I consider it to be an offensive skill. Swapping bars many times during combat is required by pvp so you construct your rotation around it. I would imagine that for pve it's more desirable to only swap bars every 20 seconds or so to avoid interrupting your rotation. So I will give you the benefit of my doubt on this issue assuming you mean pve, but for pvp I still disagree with your points, mainly because entropy is so damn useful in pvp for setting up burst, and I would be using it over surge if it wasn't for the Expert Mage passive, and I would never run magelight for crit in pvp.

Vorcil · March 2016

The last thing templars need is a buff;

biting jabs and radiant destruction just need to be deleted from the game.

EsoRecon · March 2016

Bold everything!!!

Calboy · March 2016

I hate major sorcery and brutality. What's the point of having such a mandatory buff in game, forcing every single person to slot it or take a potion.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · March 2016

Calboy wrote: »

I hate major sorcery and brutality. What's the point of having such a mandatory buff in game, forcing every single person to slot it or take a potion.

It is funny to me as well. The argument I always heard for games with fewer keys to push, meant each key could do something cool and powerful. You only get 10 buttons but this one is for you mage light, this one is for you defensive buff, this is for you offensive buff this is for you healing buff this is for your gap closing, oh and this one button well you will spam that while mashing block then light attack.

Vangy · March 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

There's a potion for that...

Of course there is.

However, spending tens of thousands of gold to keep a buff up in normal combat for a couple weeks isn't really what I would call an option.

Not when literally every other class and spec has it as part of their normal "bread and butter" rotation.

10s of thousands of gold?? Are u on PS4 or something where a corn flower costs 1000 gold for 10 pieces????

I have a DK. I have a sorc. I have a NB. I have a templar. A grand total of 0 of them use casted buffs for major sorc/major brut/crit... Its a DPS loss. everytime i have to swap to my 2h bar to cast rally, that means im losing about 2 seconds of dps which is probably a flurry + heavy weave... Thats more then 15k damage lost over those 2 seconds.... In PvP, my stam builds use rally and my mag builds use structured entropy. Igneous is just bad compared to rally unless ur running an optimized group where no one else is wasting a slot for major buffs. So basically ur taking one for the team. The heal from rally is just soooo good.

1. Stam pot for double buff : dragonthron + blessed thistle + water hycaninth
2. mag pot: (cornflower + lady's smock + namira's rot) : u get both spell power and spell crit

More combinations exist for potions that grant similar buffs. Estimated cost of 1 pot: Essence of lork + 3 vegetables that cost like ard 1k for a stack of 100.... (by rough estimation --> 100g per 4 pots... thats like 25 gold a pop... 10 000 gold would get you around 400 pots.. enough for a month of play...

If you insist on not using pots...

1. Stam = run rally
2. mag = run structured entropy

Wreuntzylla · March 2016

Well, if nobody else is going to say it, I might as well.

There is a potion for that.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Is there a reason you're not counting Entropy like Nightblade's Sap it's only in combat and is a part of nearly all mages rotation.

Because I have a mage of every other class and never use it. The heal is small and slow and the gain to health morph the equivalent of like a point or two on the stat sheet (or a tick or two of a minor DOT).

It is a single target spell with mediocre damage which makes it cumbersome for 90% of content outside dungeons/trials.

The only reason I can ever imaging considering it is for the Mage Guild passives, but there are generally better options from class passives. For example, my Sorcerer stacks Sorcerer abilities. My DK slots utility. My Nightblade slots Assassination for the crit. Etc.

The main reason I don't consider it part of a rotation is because it doesn't flow like a rotation. There is no room left on the main bad after essential rotation abilities meaning a bar swap is required DURING combat which is clunky and immersion breaking.

Other classes either get to buff out of combat and swap to the main bar before engaging which flows, or gain the ability from one of their main bar AOE/staple abilities, which flows.

The Templar 20% buff does not flow. That is my problem.

Let me let you in on a little secret Sap sucks the heal is weak and so is the damage its best vs 4+ people but then you're taking damage from well four people. Entropy is a 20% damage buff that grants 20% more damage your next attack and adds 2% Magic and recovery.

Valrien · March 2016

Sorcerer needs a spam DPS ability...then we'll talk :P

Dark_Aether · March 2016

Yet another whiny brat crying to get everything the way he wants it. At some point you need to adapt to what you have. This is not a balance issue since you do have access to the buff, otherwise sorcs should start crying for major mending.

Callous2208 · March 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Well, if nobody else is going to say it, I might as well.

There is a potion for that.

Not being a jerk but quite a few people did already say that.

hydrocynus · March 2016

Doesn't dark flare Grant 20% damage bonus to next attack?

I am using it throughout my rotation so most other attacks follow a dark flare especially ice comet.

Inarre · March 2016

Nah. At least for now templars are feeling in a decent place. More buffs arent needed, but ill reserve my opinion after dg comes out and they buff stamina again.

Phinix1 · March 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

Doesn't dark flare Grant 20% damage bonus to next attack?

I am using it throughout my rotation so most other attacks follow a dark flare especially ice comet.

Sure, but light/heavy attack weaving doesn't benefit, or it does and eats up the buff so your next actual spell doesn't get it. Either way only a fraction of your rotation will benefit.

Inarre wrote: »

Nah. At least for now templars are feeling in a decent place. More buffs arent needed, but ill reserve my opinion after dg comes out and they buff stamina again.

It isn't asking for a buff so much as consistency. As others have mentioned, you CAN spend tens of thousands of gold each week and use potions. Not really feasible but you can.

You CAN use Entropy from the Mages Guild. The problem I have with that is it is a single target, mediocre spell that forces you to waste a precious spot on your main bar (I have no room for that) or put it on your off bar, which forces you to weapon swap every pull.

It is a hassle no other class and spec has to put up with for a universal buff.

Why should Templar be neglected?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

waterfairy · March 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

[*] Dragon Knight gets Molten Weapons to gain the 20% damage buff, again out of combat. This also buffs the group, can be morphed to either Stamina or Magicka, and can be morphed to increase weapon attacks as well.

ha it only lasts 8 seconds max iirc and buffs heavy attack damage which according to a patch requires a full swing to count...probably using that whole 8 seconds for 1 hit.

Callous2208 · March 2016

Inarre wrote: »

Nah. At least for now templars are feeling in a decent place. More buffs arent needed, but ill reserve my opinion after dg comes out and they buff stamina again.

Mag templars you mean.

I too await the day that stamina comes roaring back to relevancy.