Hauztein wrote: »

I am leveling at vet rank 7 and my bars are tank and DW mag NB.
I am hybrid atm but thinking of going full magicka and loosing some of health and sta (for taunt)

And a full mag nb solo maelstrom at v16? Or do i need a tank spec to go easier?
Maybe a full mag dps with a shield in one bar?

Reevster wrote: »

I have a Vr16 mag NB Dark Elf, currently playing around with some gear/stats etc.

Will try to remember a few things since ESO is in patch mode atm

5 piece Heavy Armour master all gold.

2 piece light (hands/waist) baharas upgraded to gold.

Neck/rings bahraras with Kuta spell damage upgrades.

2 Torug pact swords, with Nimrx traits both gold.

I respected him to all points into sta. So have like 20k magic 20 k health and well 20k sta, give or take as i cant look at the stats atm.

Cant really remember CPs atm but I have over 500 , guess i can update this later.

I can tell you he is very hard to kill with siphoning skills on first bar plus immovable to go along with the Armour master set.

Onlly issue is damage out put which still needs some work. I plan to make 3 piece "light" Armour master and 2 Armour master swords to make the 5 set. With 5 piece baharas,

But may end up with 5 piece light Amour master and 4 piece torug with the vr 16 magic (agility) I think? rings/neck which i have but was trying this build with baharas just for fun. or 2 piece monster set with 2 torug swords.

I wont make top DPS with Armour master but if i can improve it enough i think this build could be quite good.

Time will tell I guess.

Plus i dont seem to run out of magica even at 20k.

code65536 wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

I have a Vr16 mag NB Dark Elf, currently playing around with some gear/stats etc.

Will try to remember a few things since ESO is in patch mode atm

5 piece Heavy Armour master all gold.

2 piece light (hands/waist) baharas upgraded to gold.

Neck/rings bahraras with Kuta spell damage upgrades.

2 Torug pact swords, with Nimrx traits both gold.

I respected him to all points into sta. So have like 20k magic 20 k health and well 20k sta, give or take as i cant look at the stats atm.

Cant really remember CPs atm but I have over 500 , guess i can update this later.

I can tell you he is very hard to kill with siphoning skills on first bar plus immovable to go along with the Armour master set.

Onlly issue is damage out put which still needs some work. I plan to make 3 piece "light" Armour master and 2 Armour master swords to make the 5 set. With 5 piece baharas,

But may end up with 5 piece light Amour master and 4 piece torug with the vr 16 magic (agility) I think? rings/neck which i have but was trying this build with baharas just for fun. or 2 piece monster set with 2 torug swords.

I wont make top DPS with Armour master but if i can improve it enough i think this build could be quite good.

Time will tell I guess.

Plus i dont seem to run out of magica even at 20k.

Reason I went with Armour master was to reach appox 27 k physical resist and 27 k spell resist.

With immovable up he has around 27-28 k physical resist and over 30k spell resist. Which frees up CPs , dont know if i need crit resist but I think i jacked it up in the CP tree.

Poor damage output is an understatement!

First, what you have there is more suitable for tanking than for DPS. There is no way this build could survive vMA.

Second, I have a high-DPS tank gearset: heavy Kagrenac's (which is a more DPS-oriented set than Armor Master) with Torug sword-and-shield and Willpower jewelry. And it puts out less than half the DPS of my DPS gearset (oh, and I'm all points into magicka, too--no points wasted on stam). The gearset and attribute distribution that you describe would do way less than even that.

Third, physical and spell resistance is not very useful. At the cap (which is around 32-33K or so), you get only 50% mitigation. Resistance cannot get you any higher than that. And, trust me, with the kind of incoming damage in vMA, that 50% mitigation will do almost nothing for you.

You need damage, damage, and more damage. Especially as a magicka nightblade, since your main survival mechanic is to outheal the incoming damage. And since your main heal scales as a percent of the damage you do, the more damage you do, the bigger your heals. Also, you need to kill things fast in vMA--the longer things take to die, the more time they have to hit you for ridiculous amounts of damage.

Autolycus wrote: »

Most of what people are saying on this thread is true, OP. You don't want to go into vMA with anything short of a dedicated DPS build. This is what I used to complete vMA for the first time on my magblade:

5 Julianos
2 Kena
3 Willpower
Destro/Resto (preferably gold quality, for the damage output)

Bar 1 - Fear, Cripple, Swallow Soul, Impale, Merciless Resolve, Soul Harvest
Bar 2 - Double Take, Sap Essence, Concealed Weapon, Healing Ward, Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether

I actually switch things up a little, and I think my strategy is a bit different than others. Without food I get up to 31k/32k magicka on each bar, respectively. For vMA, I use Orzorga's Bear Haunches for recovery instead of max stats. This, however, is contingent upon having very high spell power to offset the loss in magicka, because in vMA damage is super important. Since I use recovery food, I don't use siphoning attacks, and usually trade it for something like Harness Magicka or Agony (which is far more useful in vMA than people might think at first, particularly Prolonged Suffering, which does a pretty substantial DoT). I also trade Soul Tether for Dawnbreaker of Smiting because it's got a much lower cost, and therefore can be used much more frequently (which is at least once per round for most magblades).

This is, of course, a very condensed version of a full vMA build. I don't have the time to go into the build at length, but this should at least help a little when you are determining how to set up your character.

Autolycus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Most of what people are saying on this thread is true, OP. You don't want to go into vMA with anything short of a dedicated DPS build. This is what I used to complete vMA for the first time on my magblade:

5 Julianos
2 Kena
3 Willpower
Destro/Resto (preferably gold quality, for the damage output)

Bar 1 - Fear, Cripple, Swallow Soul, Impale, Merciless Resolve, Soul Harvest
Bar 2 - Double Take, Sap Essence, Concealed Weapon, Healing Ward, Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether

I actually switch things up a little, and I think my strategy is a bit different than others. Without food I get up to 31k/32k magicka on each bar, respectively. For vMA, I use Orzorga's Bear Haunches for recovery instead of max stats. This, however, is contingent upon having very high spell power to offset the loss in magicka, because in vMA damage is super important. Since I use recovery food, I don't use siphoning attacks, and usually trade it for something like Harness Magicka or Agony (which is far more useful in vMA than people might think at first, particularly Prolonged Suffering, which does a pretty substantial DoT). I also trade Soul Tether for Dawnbreaker of Smiting because it's got a much lower cost, and therefore can be used much more frequently (which is at least once per round for most magblades).

This is, of course, a very condensed version of a full vMA build. I don't have the time to go into the build at length, but this should at least help a little when you are determining how to set up your character.

Oh right, I forgot about Soul Tether and Agony. They're both pretty useful too.

But 32K max magicka is uncomfortably low, IMHO. Even my tank has more max magicka than that. Keep in mind that it's about 10.5 or so max magicka is equivalent to 1 spell damage. Your setup is short about 10K max magicka from typical magblade builds, so that's almost like losing 1K spell damage. Kena's not going to make that up.

Sustain has never been a major issue for me, since most of the fight is single-target. It helps that I don't run Kena (Nerien'eth or Skoria, aside from adding no sustain stress and being easier to use, have the added benefit of giving you a bigger health buffer), and I don't keep SA up all the time--I cast it only during lulls in the fighting or if I'm running low. I think you lose way too much from running recovery instead of max stats.

In a normal PvE setup I have 40k magicka. This is specifically for Maelstrom, where I have 4.1k SD self-buffed. While I would likely question it were I in your shoes, I do not find this to be uncomfortably low. In most cases, it takes 2 swallow souls to kill a single enemy, or one assassin's will proc. I also skip multiple mechanics on several arenas by out-dpsing the mechanics themselves. A few examples:

First boss, kill him during phases where he spawns one add at a time. He dies before he ever gets the chance to spawn multiple adds.

Fourth boss (dwemer spider), I get him down to about 50-60% during his initial phase at the beginning of the fight. When he switches to the fire phase, I dps him from range, ignoring adds, and when he goes into his second green phase, I burn him to zero. I ignore the vast majority of this round, save for the boss.

Fifth boss (mother of giants), After she breaks the second platform, it's all burn from there. That's about 50% of her health that I burn and ignore adds (except for the one troll that comes out, sometimes I kill him, sometimes I burn anyway).

Final boss, after he reaches 70% and goes upstairs, I burn the daedroth and go upstairs. I destroy 2 crystals, jump down, and kill the next daedroth. I then go back upstairs, destroy the last crystal, and then proceed to burn the boss to zero. This is a 70% to zero burn - which is a very high dps requirement. If I can meet this with 32k, I'm not all that concerned.

Anyway, the point is that max magicka isn't the only way to go. This is just what I do, and it works for me (since I've beaten it multiple times). Feel free to use other suggestions as well, as there are a variety of ways to go back beating vMA.

Reevster wrote: »

Ya he tanks very well lol, but like i said, its a work in progress, maybe I will in the end use something else other then Armour master , respec etc, but hey half the fun is trying new things. I just hate getting one shotted from these boss mobs, so far he doesn't get one shotted with this gear set up so going to keep working on it, beats farming nodes.

The_Saint wrote: »

Hauztein wrote: »

I am leveling at vet rank 7 and my bars are tank and DW mag NB.
I am hybrid atm but thinking of going full magicka and loosing some of health and sta (for taunt)

And a full mag nb solo maelstrom at v16? Or do i need a tank spec to go easier?
Maybe a full mag dps with a shield in one bar?

Magblade dont need shield bar in vet MSA. Just all points in Magicka and Destro/Restro bar, thats the "easiest Way"

5x Julianos (when possible chest heavy / all divines)
3x Willpower (spellpower)
1x Molag Kena (divines)
1x Thorug (divines)
1x Firestaff Thorug nirn
1x Healstaff thorug precise

5 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy for undaunted bonus
mundus thief

Destro bar
crippling, funnel, impale, merciless resolve, inner light / Ulti : Soulharvest

resto bar:
healing ward, twisting path, rapid, siphoning, inner light / Ulti: shooting star

around 18k life is good...

when you really want to go dw, just take dw instead of the destro... But it will be harder then... and much more when switch funnel with concealed weapons


When you want the fast way, just go youtube and watch videos and watch the spawnpoints and focused adds.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

The_Saint wrote: »

Hauztein wrote: »

I am leveling at vet rank 7 and my bars are tank and DW mag NB.
I am hybrid atm but thinking of going full magicka and loosing some of health and sta (for taunt)

And a full mag nb solo maelstrom at v16? Or do i need a tank spec to go easier?
Maybe a full mag dps with a shield in one bar?

Magblade dont need shield bar in vet MSA. Just all points in Magicka and Destro/Restro bar, thats the "easiest Way"

5x Julianos (when possible chest heavy / all divines)
3x Willpower (spellpower)
1x Molag Kena (divines)
1x Thorug (divines)
1x Firestaff Thorug nirn
1x Healstaff thorug precise

5 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy for undaunted bonus
mundus thief

Destro bar
crippling, funnel, impale, merciless resolve, inner light / Ulti : Soulharvest

resto bar:
healing ward, twisting path, rapid, siphoning, inner light / Ulti: shooting star

around 18k life is good...

when you really want to go dw, just take dw instead of the destro... But it will be harder then... and much more when switch funnel with concealed weapons


When you want the fast way, just go youtube and watch videos and watch the spawnpoints and focused adds.

Why path, not sap essense?

Autolycus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

Ya he tanks very well lol, but like i said, its a work in progress, maybe I will in the end use something else other then Armour master , respec etc, but hey half the fun is trying new things. I just hate getting one shotted from these boss mobs, so far he doesn't get one shotted with this gear set up so going to keep working on it, beats farming nodes.

I was trying to remember where I've seen that forum name, and now I remember. You're the one in the other thread saying that you can't get past the first boss.

Anyway, that first boss is a simple DPS check. If you have enough DPS, you can focus on the boss, ignore everything he spawns, and he's usually dead before he does his first heal. If you don't have enough DPS to do that, you don't have enough DPS for the rest of the arena, because the rest of the arena is much harder than that sleepwalk of a first boss.

You have only 20K max magicka. For a magicka build, that is, to put it harshly, pathetic. Even my full tank setups have more max magicka than that (26K on my mag DK tank, 33K on my mag NB tank). For every 1K of lost max magicka, you need to bump your spell damage by about 100 to compensate. Yes, you have a respectably high SD, but it's not anywhere high enough to compensate for that tiny of a magicka pool.

To start with, all your max attributes should be max magicka, and all your gear enchantments should be max magicka. Ditch Armor Master (I don't even like it for tanking--tanking is more about resources and group utility than raw resistance anyway, and for mag tanks, sets like Kagrenac or Tava's are far better). You want light Julianos.

And you should stop trying to tank you way through vMA. You can't. Every time I see a tank complain that vMA has DPS bias, I remind them that tanks and healers are support roles: the goal of this game (and any other game) is to kill your enemy: you don't heal someone to death, and you don't block someone to death. The main role in this game (and in any game) is the DPS, and the tank and healer exist to support the DPS. This is why it makes absolutely no sense to go into vMA with a healer or a tank setup--who are you supporting? In vMA, you have to be the DPS, healer, and tank all at once, with emphasis on the DPS since killing is eventually what leads to winning.

If you're concerned about survival, do you have about 17-18K health? You can go a bit higher, but I wouldn't go more than 21K. In that arena, my Funnel Health (I don't bother re-morphing to Swallow Soul for vMA) can crit heal me for 8K (you can't get heals that big with the kind of setup you have). I keep spamming that, and I get enough heals to basically heal me through any of the normal damage. For the bigger damage spikes--you're supposed to avoid them. That comes from awareness and reaction to game mechanics.

Ya so here is what i have, i redid attributes back to all magica. Some are saying you dont need all that resists and maybe so but its a hell of alot easier to stay alive with them lol, but I do realize my spell damge is too low , so still playing with the setup. Plus i dont use food but regen all 3 stats, argonian maid purple.

This is what my nightblade looks like in her vMA setup:

Yes, it's a pretty traditional, vanilla magblade setup, 5x Julianos, 3x Willpower with spell damage, 2x Nerien'eth, and nirnhoned resto staff (I prefer resto front bar for vMA for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread).

Your spell damage isn't that much lower than mine, but that gap in max magicka is equivalent to something like 1600 spell damage. So, for starters, ditch the regen drink. Regen drinks might be nice in PvP, but they are horrible in PvE. Not only do you lose the max magicka from not using health/mag blue food, you also lose the max health, which means that in order to hit a certain health target, you'll have to sacrifice max magicka. In my setup, all my gear enchants are magicka, all my jewelry traits are magicka, and the one and only source of health that I get from my gear is the 1p health bonus from Nerien'eth. This lets me stack more into magicka, which means more damage, more heals, and a larger resource pool to draw from before I run dry.

The next thing you should worry about is your crit rate. Crit is much more important in PvE than it is in PvP. When I get a crit Funnel heal that was sourced from a crit Funnel damage hit, it can heal for a lot: 7-8K or more. That magnitude of healing, more so than max health or resistance, is how you stay alive in the arena. And to achieve that, you need higher crit and more max magicka. Don't use heavy armor. The heavy armor passives, frankly, suck. We tanks complain about them all the time--why use them if you don't have to? Use 5 pieces of light to get that 10% extra spell crit chance. Use the Thief mundus stone with all-divines gear. Slot Inner Light for crit and max magicka.

It may seem like you're just following a cookie-cutter build, but people don't use these setups because they're following the herd--they use these setups because they work.

The "spell damage equivalent" in terms of max magicka is approximately 3k magicka = 180 SD. It's not quite a difference of 1600, rather a little closer to 1200 SD. I'm not trying to be nit-picky here though, just giving an approximate benchmark for reference. The difference in someone with 32k magicka vs. 43k magicka is approximately that of an Overload proc from Kena (550-600 SD). Basically, you can give up 10k worth of magicka, take a 2set of kena instead, and be just as well off. That's not to say your suggestion is incorrect, I just wanted to clarify it a bit (as there are other alternatives to just stacking magicka). That's also not to suggest you can't have 43k magicka and use kena too, but for vMA it's not necessary to have both.

Just to make a point here, because there's absolutely nothing wrong with your setup; it looks good, you've got the stats for it, so really all that remains is the player behind the toon. However, and I think you eluded to this a bit, it's not the only way to complete. My setup is somewhat different from yours; I don't stack as much into magicka, giving up skills like Inner Light for more utility, and making up the difference with kena. The dps requirements in vMA are strong, but they still aren't that high compared to something like vMoL. If you have high enough dps to burst down a player (without any sneak attacks), then you've likely got enough to beat vMA. Most of it beyond that is practice and skill.

code65536 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

Ya he tanks very well lol, but like i said, its a work in progress, maybe I will in the end use something else other then Armour master , respec etc, but hey half the fun is trying new things. I just hate getting one shotted from these boss mobs, so far he doesn't get one shotted with this gear set up so going to keep working on it, beats farming nodes.

I was trying to remember where I've seen that forum name, and now I remember. You're the one in the other thread saying that you can't get past the first boss.

Anyway, that first boss is a simple DPS check. If you have enough DPS, you can focus on the boss, ignore everything he spawns, and he's usually dead before he does his first heal. If you don't have enough DPS to do that, you don't have enough DPS for the rest of the arena, because the rest of the arena is much harder than that sleepwalk of a first boss.

You have only 20K max magicka. For a magicka build, that is, to put it harshly, pathetic. Even my full tank setups have more max magicka than that (26K on my mag DK tank, 33K on my mag NB tank). For every 1K of lost max magicka, you need to bump your spell damage by about 100 to compensate. Yes, you have a respectably high SD, but it's not anywhere high enough to compensate for that tiny of a magicka pool.

To start with, all your max attributes should be max magicka, and all your gear enchantments should be max magicka. Ditch Armor Master (I don't even like it for tanking--tanking is more about resources and group utility than raw resistance anyway, and for mag tanks, sets like Kagrenac or Tava's are far better). You want light Julianos.

And you should stop trying to tank you way through vMA. You can't. Every time I see a tank complain that vMA has DPS bias, I remind them that tanks and healers are support roles: the goal of this game (and any other game) is to kill your enemy: you don't heal someone to death, and you don't block someone to death. The main role in this game (and in any game) is the DPS, and the tank and healer exist to support the DPS. This is why it makes absolutely no sense to go into vMA with a healer or a tank setup--who are you supporting? In vMA, you have to be the DPS, healer, and tank all at once, with emphasis on the DPS since killing is eventually what leads to winning.

If you're concerned about survival, do you have about 17-18K health? You can go a bit higher, but I wouldn't go more than 21K. In that arena, my Funnel Health (I don't bother re-morphing to Swallow Soul for vMA) can crit heal me for 8K (you can't get heals that big with the kind of setup you have). I keep spamming that, and I get enough heals to basically heal me through any of the normal damage. For the bigger damage spikes--you're supposed to avoid them. That comes from awareness and reaction to game mechanics.

Ya so here is what i have, i redid attributes back to all magica. Some are saying you dont need all that resists and maybe so but its a hell of alot easier to stay alive with them lol, but I do realize my spell damge is too low , so still playing with the setup. Plus i dont use food but regen all 3 stats, argonian maid purple.

This is what my nightblade looks like in her vMA setup:

Yes, it's a pretty traditional, vanilla magblade setup, 5x Julianos, 3x Willpower with spell damage, 2x Nerien'eth, and nirnhoned resto staff (I prefer resto front bar for vMA for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread).

Your spell damage isn't that much lower than mine, but that gap in max magicka is equivalent to something like 1600 spell damage. So, for starters, ditch the regen drink. Regen drinks might be nice in PvP, but they are horrible in PvE. Not only do you lose the max magicka from not using health/mag blue food, you also lose the max health, which means that in order to hit a certain health target, you'll have to sacrifice max magicka. In my setup, all my gear enchants are magicka, all my jewelry traits are magicka, and the one and only source of health that I get from my gear is the 1p health bonus from Nerien'eth. This lets me stack more into magicka, which means more damage, more heals, and a larger resource pool to draw from before I run dry.

The next thing you should worry about is your crit rate. Crit is much more important in PvE than it is in PvP. When I get a crit Funnel heal that was sourced from a crit Funnel damage hit, it can heal for a lot: 7-8K or more. That magnitude of healing, more so than max health or resistance, is how you stay alive in the arena. And to achieve that, you need higher crit and more max magicka. Don't use heavy armor. The heavy armor passives, frankly, suck. We tanks complain about them all the time--why use them if you don't have to? Use 5 pieces of light to get that 10% extra spell crit chance. Use the Thief mundus stone with all-divines gear. Slot Inner Light for crit and max magicka.

It may seem like you're just following a cookie-cutter build, but people don't use these setups because they're following the herd--they use these setups because they work.

The "spell damage equivalent" in terms of max magicka is approximately 3k magicka = 180 SD. It's not quite a difference of 1600, rather a little closer to 1200 SD. I'm not trying to be nit-picky here though, just giving an approximate benchmark for reference. The difference in someone with 32k magicka vs. 43k magicka is approximately that of an Overload proc from Kena (550-600 SD). Basically, you can give up 10k worth of magicka, take a 2set of kena instead, and be just as well off. That's not to say your suggestion is incorrect, I just wanted to clarify it a bit (as there are other alternatives to just stacking magicka). That's also not to suggest you can't have 43k magicka and use kena too, but for vMA it's not necessary to have both.

Just to make a point here, because there's absolutely nothing wrong with your setup; it looks good, you've got the stats for it, so really all that remains is the player behind the toon. However, and I think you eluded to this a bit, it's not the only way to complete. My setup is somewhat different from yours; I don't stack as much into magicka, giving up skills like Inner Light for more utility, and making up the difference with kena. The dps requirements in vMA are strong, but they still aren't that high compared to something like vMoL. If you have high enough dps to burst down a player (without any sneak attacks), then you've likely got enough to beat vMA. Most of it beyond that is practice and skill.

Incorrect. It's around a 10.5 ratio (10.46, actually) for magicka vs. spell damage.

"Play how you want" doesn't always work. Yours did, but you did not go to the kinds of extremes that he did. You're not in 5p heavy armor master. You're not running around in 20K magicka. You're using 2p Kena to offset part of your lost max pool. And he can't even get past the first stage boss. No, stats aren't everything, but they aren't nothing, either. And going into this kind of content with that kind off stat handicap is not something that I would recommend.