Can a melee mag NB solo maelstrom?

Hauztein

code65536 wrote: »

Ch4rLy wrote: »

hello guys! what is the better race for magicka NB and stamina NB? What is the better race for NB dual weapon and bow? thank you.

For magicka NB DPS, the two best races are Altmer and Dunmer. (Before Thieves Guild, it would've been Altmer, Breton, and Dunmer in that order, but with the changes to CP making elemental damage relevant for magblades as well as the buff to Wall of Elements, Breton has now fallen to third place.)

For pure raw DPS on a magblade, it's Dunmer. Altmer is a bit more balanced, with that nice bonus to magicka regen. Altmer is also more flexible in your staff choice: Dunmer basically requires a fire staff (could be an issue if you're trying to farm for a Maelstrom staff and get something that's not fire). Breton's spell resistance makes it a good choice if you want to tank on your magblade (though Dunmer's bonus to stamina is very good for tanking, too). The Breton spell cost reduction of 3% is just way too low (diminishing returns if stacked with other spell cost reduction, and is nowhere competitive with Altmer's regen).

That said, the difference between Dunmer, Altmer, and Breton is fairly small. And if offered the opportunity to, I would not change my Breton to something else because I'd rather not have pointy ears.

As for stamina, the four main races to consider are Redguard, Imperial, Khajiit, and Bosmer. But unlike magicka, where there's a more well-defined pecking order, each of the stamina races are, er, different, rather than definitely better or worse than each other. I don't play stamina much, so I won't comment beyond that.

But I would say that Dunmer is probably one of the best races in general. It's the top race for magblade DPS. While it won't be one of the top stam DPS races, that 6% Dunmer stam bonus makes it a pretty decent stamblade DPS race. And while Imperials are probably still the best tank race, Dunmer's bonus to both resource pools makes it pretty good for tanking too. It's a nice jack-of-all-trades race: great at magicka, but good enough in other areas that you can re-spec into all sorts of other roles if you get bored with magicka DPS.

But for a non-staff user, Breton still the best?
I know, i loose in ranged light and heavy attacks... but i hate staffs so much... i use DW for better gmd and 2 enchants.

code65536

Autolycus wrote: »

I took a look at the link you provided, and the OP in that post never defines that 10.5 coefficient. Perhaps the spreadsheet he linked is where the details lie, but where did this data come from? How exactly does it translate into 10.5? I spent a fair amount of time looking through the various coefficients on the spreadsheet, and I don't see how 10.5 is derived from them.

You're better off asking @Asayre himself, but as I understand it, the "Main Stat" / "Magicka" / "Stamina" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in the main stat pool, and the "Power" / "Spell Damage" / "Weapon Damage" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in those stats. The ratio of 10.5 then comes from the ratio of the latter to the former. For example, Impale gains 0.0515 damage per point of Magicka and 0.541 damage per point of Spell Damage. 0.541 / 0.0515 = 10.5.

Reorx_Holybeard

code65536 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I took a look at the link you provided, and the OP in that post never defines that 10.5 coefficient. Perhaps the spreadsheet he linked is where the details lie, but where did this data come from? How exactly does it translate into 10.5? I spent a fair amount of time looking through the various coefficients on the spreadsheet, and I don't see how 10.5 is derived from them.

You're better off asking @Asayre himself, but as I understand it, the "Main Stat" / "Magicka" / "Stamina" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in the main stat pool, and the "Power" / "Spell Damage" / "Weapon Damage" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in those stats. The ratio of 10.5 then comes from the ratio of the latter to the former. For example, Impale gains 0.0515 damage per point of Magicka and 0.541 damage per point of Spell Damage. 0.541 / 0.0515 = 10.5.

Yes...the average ratio of 10.5 comes from the skill coefficients. For example, if we look at the damage from Funnel Health we have the equation:

Damage = 0.0953463 * Magicka + 1.00141 * SpellDamage + 6.12187

The ratio between the Magicka and SpellDamage coefficients is:

1.00141 / 0.0953463 = 10.50

which means that 10.50 extra points of Magicka will get you the same damage increase as 1 extra point of Spell Damage. With a few exceptions most skills have this ~10.5 ratio.

Autolycus

code65536 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I took a look at the link you provided, and the OP in that post never defines that 10.5 coefficient. Perhaps the spreadsheet he linked is where the details lie, but where did this data come from? How exactly does it translate into 10.5? I spent a fair amount of time looking through the various coefficients on the spreadsheet, and I don't see how 10.5 is derived from them.

You're better off asking @Asayre himself, but as I understand it, the "Main Stat" / "Magicka" / "Stamina" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in the main stat pool, and the "Power" / "Spell Damage" / "Weapon Damage" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in those stats. The ratio of 10.5 then comes from the ratio of the latter to the former. For example, Impale gains 0.0515 damage per point of Magicka and 0.541 damage per point of Spell Damage. 0.541 / 0.0515 = 10.5.

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I took a look at the link you provided, and the OP in that post never defines that 10.5 coefficient. Perhaps the spreadsheet he linked is where the details lie, but where did this data come from? How exactly does it translate into 10.5? I spent a fair amount of time looking through the various coefficients on the spreadsheet, and I don't see how 10.5 is derived from them.

You're better off asking @Asayre himself, but as I understand it, the "Main Stat" / "Magicka" / "Stamina" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in the main stat pool, and the "Power" / "Spell Damage" / "Weapon Damage" column is how much the damage increases for each increase in those stats. The ratio of 10.5 then comes from the ratio of the latter to the former. For example, Impale gains 0.0515 damage per point of Magicka and 0.541 damage per point of Spell Damage. 0.541 / 0.0515 = 10.5.

Yes...the average ratio of 10.5 comes from the skill coefficients. For example, if we look at the damage from Funnel Health we have the equation:

Damage = 0.0953463 * Magicka + 1.00141 * SpellDamage + 6.12187

The ratio between the Magicka and SpellDamage coefficients is:

1.00141 / 0.0953463 = 10.50

which means that 10.50 extra points of Magicka will get you the same damage increase as 1 extra point of Spell Damage. With a few exceptions most skills have this ~10.5 ratio.

Perfect, thanks for clarifying both of you. I appreciate the insight.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Hauztein wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Ch4rLy wrote: »

hello guys! what is the better race for magicka NB and stamina NB? What is the better race for NB dual weapon and bow? thank you.

For magicka NB DPS, the two best races are Altmer and Dunmer. (Before Thieves Guild, it would've been Altmer, Breton, and Dunmer in that order, but with the changes to CP making elemental damage relevant for magblades as well as the buff to Wall of Elements, Breton has now fallen to third place.)

For pure raw DPS on a magblade, it's Dunmer. Altmer is a bit more balanced, with that nice bonus to magicka regen. Altmer is also more flexible in your staff choice: Dunmer basically requires a fire staff (could be an issue if you're trying to farm for a Maelstrom staff and get something that's not fire). Breton's spell resistance makes it a good choice if you want to tank on your magblade (though Dunmer's bonus to stamina is very good for tanking, too). The Breton spell cost reduction of 3% is just way too low (diminishing returns if stacked with other spell cost reduction, and is nowhere competitive with Altmer's regen).

That said, the difference between Dunmer, Altmer, and Breton is fairly small. And if offered the opportunity to, I would not change my Breton to something else because I'd rather not have pointy ears.

As for stamina, the four main races to consider are Redguard, Imperial, Khajiit, and Bosmer. But unlike magicka, where there's a more well-defined pecking order, each of the stamina races are, er, different, rather than definitely better or worse than each other. I don't play stamina much, so I won't comment beyond that.

But I would say that Dunmer is probably one of the best races in general. It's the top race for magblade DPS. While it won't be one of the top stam DPS races, that 6% Dunmer stam bonus makes it a pretty decent stamblade DPS race. And while Imperials are probably still the best tank race, Dunmer's bonus to both resource pools makes it pretty good for tanking too. It's a nice jack-of-all-trades race: great at magicka, but good enough in other areas that you can re-spec into all sorts of other roles if you get bored with magicka DPS.

But for a non-staff user, Breton still the best?
I know, i loose in ranged light and heavy attacks... but i hate staffs so much... i use DW for better gmd and 2 enchants.

If you are talking magic, but no staves, then I think Altmer is best. The elemental boost is meanigless, they get the same magic boost as breton, and their resource management will be better. They lose out on the spell resistance, so I guess you need to consider that, but the resistance from the racial passive is just not that big a deal.

If you really dont want to play with a staff, then go stam IMO. You are never going to pull good DPS on a magic build without a staff. The weave is too important. My vote would be Redguard or Imperial. Redguard is probably better pure stam, but Imperial is tankier and can be played as magic, especially in pvp, if needed. Khajiit is more of a narrow crit build. I am actually considering rolling a Khajiit for fun, but mostly because i want to play a cat. haha.

Ch4rLy

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

[quote="
If you really dont want to play with a staff, then go stam IMO. You are never going to pull good DPS on a magic build without a staff. The weave is too important. My vote would be Redguard or Imperial. Redguard is probably better pure stam, but Imperial is tankier and can be played as magic, especially in pvp, if needed. Khajiit is more of a narrow crit build. I am actually considering rolling a Khajiit for fun, but mostly because i want to play a cat. haha.

is imperial good for nightblade? is Khajiit NB are viable on PvP?
i want play an NB for PVp but i don't know what race play... and i don't know if i have to play stamina or magicka...

darthsithis

Hello! I am trying to get stormproof on every class. So far just sorc...anyways is it possible wih a magicka bosmer nb? I did that on purpose for the extra stam and stealth damage bonus. Having trouble with survivability though. What's a good champ point distribution?

code65536

darthsithis wrote: »

Hello! I am trying to get stormproof on every class. So far just sorc...anyways is it possible wih a magicka bosmer nb? I did that on purpose for the extra stam and stealth damage bonus. Having trouble with survivability though. What's a good champ point distribution?

A well-played magblade will easily beat vMA regardless of race. You don't play a Bosmer magblade any differently than you would an Altmer magblade. Your DPS and sustain would be slightly lower as a Bosmer, but it really doesn't make a lot of difference.

The stealth damage bonus is completely useless, though. You don't use stealth in vMA (if I'm not mistaken, you can't even enter stealth--I've never even tried :P).

I don't do anything special with CP for vMA. Just follow any standard magicka DPS spec: Blue points mostly into Elemental Expert and then split into Erosion, Elfborn, and Thaumaturge. Green points primarily in magicka regen and reduction. Red points almost entirely in Hardy and Elemental Defender, with some in Thick Skinned and Quick Recovery.

Didaco

I do it with my stambrid sorc who has 26k stam and 25k magicka, 3750 WD.

I just slot Rune Cage and collect the defensive sigil when things get sticky.

Those 20+ sec stun class skills really help a lot when dealing with dps checks: usually those checks come with pesky adds that can really ruin your day... just put them to sleep and take the dps check with more ease.

By the way, you can ONLY go solo in normal/vMA

Toc de Malsvi

"can a melee mag NB solo Maelstrom?"


No you need a tank and healer for that for sure.................................................................

mr_wazzabi

Hauztein wrote: »

I am leveling at vet rank 7 and my bars are tank and DW mag NB.
I am hybrid atm but thinking of going full magicka and loosing some of health and sta (for taunt)

And a full mag nb solo maelstrom at v16? Or do i need a tank spec to go easier?
Maybe a full mag dps with a shield in one bar?

https://youtu.be/yt7_iLymG_Y

There it is! Melee magicka nb flawless vma run! By yours truly!

cpuScientist

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Hauztein wrote: »

I am leveling at vet rank 7 and my bars are tank and DW mag NB.
I am hybrid atm but thinking of going full magicka and loosing some of health and sta (for taunt)

And a full mag nb solo maelstrom at v16? Or do i need a tank spec to go easier?
Maybe a full mag dps with a shield in one bar?

https://youtu.be/yt7_iLymG_Y

There it is! Melee magicka nb flawless vma run! By yours truly!

Congrats. Epic Necro, still had vet ranks lol. BUT CONGRATS!!!