Basic Lessons in Real LIfe Business (for whiners/complainers)

scorpiodog · March 2016

I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.

ThatGuyCameron · March 2016

I've been here for 2 months and I'm tired of these bugs im quitin

Mojmir · March 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.

actually alot of this is true,and also false at the same time. i work in a business that is forbes rated,trust me when i say they bend over backwards for the customer and the ratings. although not the same kind of business, reviews can deeply impact your business, a good example is yelp. ive watched managers and business owners just lose there *** when they get bad reviews, they reach out to the customer and try to make it right. its a successful business practice and proven to work. not reaching out to your player base is toxic, lethal when you act.

scorpiodog · March 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

I've been here for 2 months and I'm tired of these bugs im quitin

That's a perfectly rational response.

But if you don't actually leave and hang around to say that more than once it would be a little weird.

mb10 · March 2016

Give this guy an award for best thread ever made on these forums.

AMEN! Ive finally found an ally that agrees with the way I see all these complaints.

"If it doesnt make money, it doesnt make sense"

Haha some people on these forums genuinely believe they can hold the MMO of the year 2015 with all their power and money at ransom by threatening to "quit" which they never even do! Its quite comical. Youre all deluded if you think ZOS should listen to you at all costs because you and your little friends dont like a bit of lag here and there for what is a an absolutely huge game.

Theres an option called close application. If you dont like ESO, click that and never open it up again.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · March 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

I've been here for 2 months and I'm tired of these bugs im quitin

Can I have your stuff?

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Only one of your points that might not entirely apply. When Wrobel said on ESO Live that he was told to "go make cool abilities for classes," that doesn't sound like it was assessed much. Maybe the assessment came afterwards, but it doesn't sound like every cost and risk was initially considered when classes were being built.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

Give this guy an award for best thread ever made on these forums.

AMEN! Ive finally found an ally that agrees with the way I see all these complaints.

"If it doesnt make money, it doesnt make sense"

Haha some people on these forums genuinely believe they can hold the MMO of the year 2015 with all their power and money at ransom by threatening to "quit" which they never even do! Its quite comical. Youre all deluded if you think ZOS should listen to you at all costs because you and your little friends dont like a bit of lag here and there for what is a an absolutely huge game.

Theres an option called close application. If you dont like ESO, click that and never open it up again.

100% agree with both you and OP. Great post OP! Now hopefully people can learn but i'm still pretty doubtful of that because this is still sadly the age of entitlement.

Liukke · March 2016

Ahem...have YOU ever worked in a real business?

Let's suppose you're right, and yes, some points are totally correct, but:

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

You're right, if you talk about people complaining about not having this gear or that cannot reach V16 in 36 seconds.
But there's another part of the community that has the right to be anger, because the game is broken.
It's not a balance stuff, or something that some can like and some can't, it's broken...I can't play without a crash every 30-40 minutes, without seeing pink stuff around and broken sound.
I cannot resurrect so I cannot do any solo instance (vMA, or just any dungeon where everybody needs to resurrect me even if I could normally) and I cannot do PvP because I'm a melee and my gap closer is *** up

That's a freakin' right to be altered as a beast! :P

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

Totally wrong here...hardcore players is what fuel every MMO.
I spent for this game almost 100€ in a year, it's not that much but I was starting and I was new, I also did 3 months sub started in december but now I dropped it.
I planned to buy other 3 crown packs with the discount after TG but after all those game breaking bugs I decided to spend my money somewhere else.

I guess many others did the same, and many others could have spent waaaay more than I did, if you do the math you can tell how much of a loss it is, and it will be.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

That's right, but that's not the point of the many flames in these days.
There are players that just want to play a normal game, without having 10-15 fps in certain spots at hew's bane with a GTX 980Ti (this game has the worst CPU bottleneck ever seen) and without having to log in 30 times before it can work.
All the technic part of this game is simply not worth the money they ask for, and we have all the right to complain about it, nobody is asking a refund but it's totally worth pointing it out.

Lenikus · March 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

I've been here for 2 months and I'm tired of these bugs im quitin

tired already ? .... boy you new to mmos?

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · March 2016

I work in a video game store and I can assure you the customer is wrong most of the time. For example they buy a brand new game and decide they don't like it. They come back and want to return it for their money back. First of all refunds are only in store credit and second the returns are only for defective items. If a new game does turn out to be defective we replace it for another copy of the same game. If they argue and demand that we have to give their money back I just tell them that I do not because it clearly states NO CASH REFUNDS and returns are only done for store credit on used games because we are not a free rental service. So yes the customer is most definitely wrong most of the time. I think most people feel that way after working retail.

scorpiodog · March 2016

Liukke wrote: »

Ahem...have YOU ever worked in a real business?

Yes, which is one reason why I'm only a casual gamer.

The way I see it if I never make Emperor at least I have success in real life to fall back on.

But I'm not saying "don't complain" - there are reasons to complain.

What I'm saying is I see way too many "Hardcore MMO players" saying things that don't even make sense and it's pitiful to read or watch because they are just poor self-important fools who think if they throw a tantrum all of a sudden it will be easier to program a megaserver in with millions of clients and catering to their specific and unique desires.

Reznique · March 2016

Thank you mister businessman, now I understand why it's okay for the game to be bad and why it's absolutely normal for patches to come out 90% raw.

Papa bless

Killa4hire89 · March 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.

Man I understand what you are trying to say but you are wrong. People are not mad because of this patch, (or lack really). People are mad because within 2 years of this game being released there have literally been NO improvements to this game. Patch 1.6 dropped in February of 2015. We are in March of 2016 and they STILL are trying to fix problems that were introduced over a year ago. For instance, in 1.6 they removed soft caps, paving the way for infinite resource builds. In 1.6 they removed dynamic ultimate, removing one of the areas that allowed for skill based 1vx gameplay. The removal of soft caps also opened the door to shieldstacking sorcs and forever rolling stamina builds. Also (if I am not mistaken) aoe caps were changed in this update as well which paved the way for ball groups that now dominate cyrodiil. They broke the game from a lag/server stability standpoint in this patch as well. They have not fixed these issues in over a year. Not to mention the new issues they introduce in every patch because they literally cannot introduce a patch without breaking something. I have played several mmos prior to eso. To name a few SWTOR, FFXIV, FFXI, and Talisman Online. Each had balancing issues and technical issues, however none of them did a worse job of fixing these issues. It is too much to ask a company to forget their profits to make a game that we believe would be better. However it IS NOT to much to expect a company to keep their game running smoothly or at least fixing some issues in every patch. ZOS could not do this, which is why they are being trashed so badly and several people are leaving and/or have left their game.

Every business is responsible to their shareholders, however they are also obligated to their customers as well, lest they lose their playerbase (and by extension their income).

SeptimusDova · March 2016

Scorpio so after all you wrote you have elevated yourself to the point where you call others fools? Pretty crass don't you think.Most here really don't care what "you" see. Much like most don't care about what "I" think.

People want to enjoy the game that is why they play it. They bring up issues and ZOS manner and frequency of communications is insufficient for them.

I find it very humorous that others say and call people things in such terminology that earned me account suspensions. Rant and opinions are fine, mind the rules and enjoy your stay or be like me and be only one bad post away from being perma banned.

Mojmir · March 2016

its one thing to release a product, its another thing to maintain it and its reputation.

Genomic · March 2016

Is this a parody post? "Economics as taught by a 13 year old over Xbox live".

Loralai_907 · March 2016

Ok, I'm going to say it. I tried not to, I really did lol.

You had a really great opportunity here to just state some facts about how businesses operate. And while I don't agree 100% with what you said in that regard, I can see where you are coming from to a degree.

After that, dude. Really? Was it at all necessary to go on your own tangents about how you perceive "hardcore MMO players" as some sort of cancer? Not exactly your words, but you get the idea. All the name calling didn't exactly make you look very professional or classy or intelligent.

I wouldn't say that I'm hardcore, but I have been around forever, and I do care about the state of the game. However, my voice, is substantially calmer, because that is who I am. That being said, I think it is incredibly sad that we have lost a lot of really great voices recently. They left. And I don't think they are coming back. And it wasn't because they didn't get their "special snowflake" way, it was because things are broken and have been broken for a long time. And that too is very sad.

We can all agree to disagree. People can continue to not see problems. People can continue to have fun despite the problems too. I am, mostly. But I am also frustrated.

And finally, if you are so against the video rant, why even bring it up? Quit giving it free publicity if you hate the video and the dude so much.

scorpiodog · March 2016

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Scorpio so after all you wrote you have elevated yourself to the point where you call others fools? Pretty crass don't you think.Most here really don't care what "you" see. Much like most don't care about what "I" think.

People want to enjoy the game that is why they play it. They bring up issues and ZOS manner and frequency of communications is insufficient for them.

I find it very humorous that others say and call people things in such terminology that earned me account suspensions. Rant and opinions are fine, mind the rules and enjoy your stay or be like me and be only one bad post away from being perma banned.

"Fools" is crass?
Maybe said something bad about a specific person, which is different that a vague or general wording. So you can say "Some scorpios who post foolish things are foolish." should be ok but you should not be able to say "Scorpiodog is a fool for posting something foolish."

But yes, if someone posts a rant video on youtube (for example) about how much they complained to a company about their product in a public forum and then continued to post negative videos about how that company should fire a company official, and another person named publicly in this video should apologize, and the company still hasn't come to this youtube publisher and given him an explanation even though he has been with the game since beta, blah blah blah - yes, I think such a hypothetical person would be foolish.

audrieltheelf · March 2016

mommadani907 wrote: »

Ok, I'm going to say it. I tried not to, I really did lol.

You had a really great opportunity here to just state some facts about how businesses operate. And while I don't agree 100% with what you said in that regard, I can see where you are coming from to a degree.

After that, dude. Really? Was it at all necessary to go on your own tangents about how you perceive "hardcore MMO players" as some sort of cancer? Not exactly your words, but you get the idea. All the name calling didn't exactly make you look very professional or classy or intelligent.

I wouldn't say that I'm hardcore, but I have been around forever, and I do care about the state of the game. However, my voice, is substantially calmer, because that is who I am. That being said, I think it is incredibly sad that we have lost a lot of really great voices recently. They left. And I don't think they are coming back. And it wasn't because they didn't get their "special snowflake" way, it was because things are broken and have been broken for a long time. And that too is very sad.

We can all agree to disagree. People can continue to not see problems. People can continue to have fun despite the problems too. I am, mostly. But I am also frustrated.

And finally, if you are so against the video rant, why even bring it up? Quit giving it free publicity if you hate the video and the dude so much.

I couldn't have said it better myself!!

scorpiodog · March 2016

mommadani907 wrote: »

Ok, I'm going to say it. I tried not to, I really did lol.

You had a really great opportunity here to just state some facts about how businesses operate. And while I don't agree 100% with what you said in that regard, I can see where you are coming from to a degree.

After that, dude. Really? Was it at all necessary to go on your own tangents about how you perceive "hardcore MMO players" as some sort of cancer? Not exactly your words, but you get the idea. All the name calling didn't exactly make you look very professional or classy or intelligent.

I wouldn't say that I'm hardcore, but I have been around forever, and I do care about the state of the game. However, my voice, is substantially calmer, because that is who I am. That being said, I think it is incredibly sad that we have lost a lot of really great voices recently. They left. And I don't think they are coming back. And it wasn't because they didn't get their "special snowflake" way, it was because things are broken and have been broken for a long time. And that too is very sad.

We can all agree to disagree. People can continue to not see problems. People can continue to have fun despite the problems too. I am, mostly. But I am also frustrated.

And finally, if you are so against the video rant, why even bring it up? Quit giving it free publicity if you hate the video and the dude so much.

OK, Thank you for explaining how some people read it.

Again, I'm not against anyone complaining about legitimate things.

But there are several individuals who in my opinion are trying to destroy ESO on their way out and there are about 5 posts like that in the general forum every time I log in. If there is a bug or problem, why post in the general chat?

stewhead2ub17_ESO · March 2016

There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger -

Love this post! However, "taste" is a personal preference. There is no scientific evidence that supports Romaine lettuce is tastier on a burger than Iceburg.

Mojmir · March 2016

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger -

Love this post! However, "taste" is a personal preference. There is no scientific evidence that supports Romaine lettuce is tastier on a burger than Iceburg.

Lettuce is for salads,bibb lettuce though.

Gidorick · March 2016

Although the smugness of the OP irks me, I agree with the basic content and the message of the post.

That being said, ZOS doesn't even listen to the suggestions that would make money... and they make decisions that would possibly make them LESS money.

Most of my suggestions include "Crown Store Addition" sections. I try to find a way to monetize the ideas I post... but SOME things are just things that need to be added without monetization to make the core game experience better (like useable chairs, ladders, etc. )

I really don't get some of the decisions that ZOS makes.... I alluded to this in my feedback about assistants over on the PTS section of the forum. I'll quote myself:

Gidorick wrote: »

I'm sure my concerns are gong to be overshadowed by those that are excited about Assistants. Most players just see a merchant they can access anywhere and are excited about the time saving mechanic. There are, however, some legitimate concerns regarding the current PTS implementation of Assistants. I personally try to look at what is good for the game and not just at what is good for Gid. All of my feedback can be filed under "General Feedback" maybe even tack on the word "Concerns" to that...

I wanted to wait to give feedback on the assistants concept until I actually got to check them out for myself and they appear to function similarly to how I feared they would. My chief concern with these is that Assistants will essentially remove one of the biggest reasons we have to visit towns. Now, I am not so much concerned with the functionality of the Assistants, I am concerned with the "permanent" nature of them.

Back in Feb 2015, I suggested the following on this thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149698/summonable-beast-merchants-and-banker-concept/p1)
A Mudcrab Merchant

A Creeper Fence

A Goblin Banker

In that thread I suggested the summonable merchants (assistants) be attached to consumables bought in the crown store. These items would be a consistent source of revenue... not a one time purchase.

I even suggested that ESO+ players be given reusable versions of these consumable items with a healthy cooldown in this thread here (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1), which would create value for the ESO+ sub.

The decision to NOT attach Assistants to consumables baffles me... especially considering that as a one time purchase, you buy them and you never EVER have to go to a merchant or your personal bank again.

This just seems like a really shortsighted design decision that will have a negative impact on possible future revenue generating crown store additions, such as bags (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1).

Why would players buy additional bag space if they have a merchant to sell items to or a banker to access their bank for absolutely no additional cost? If the assistants were accessible via a consumable or had a cooldown (ESO+ suggestion above) players would regularly come upon situations where they have to make the decision to either buy more consumable items from the crown store or to go back to town. If ZOS added bags then players would have an additional choice in those situations. The point here is, with the Assistants designed as they are ZOS severely limits their options in the future, in terms of game mechanics and revenue generating items that could be added to the Crown Store.

Those are just my monetization and gameplay concerns. I'm also concerned with the fact that they are people... That decision seems odd, especially since The Elder Scrolls offers other alternatives. Having every player being allowed to summon a random mudcrab, a creeper, or a goblin makes MUCH more sense than having every player summon the EXACT same NPC to follow them around.

I sincerely hope @ZOS_RichLambert encourages the content designers to start looking at what players are suggesting when they go about designing an addition to ESO. I hope future Crown Store offerings are looking at ways to grow the game for the long haul and offer items that will not damage the established ESO game environment while simultaneously creating a long term revenue stream and not just offer items that will make an immediate buck.

If ZOS moves forward with the current Assistant design I truly believe they will have a long term negative impact on ESO... but if they are released, please release "skins" for these assistants over time to add variation to these tools. If ZOS releases skins regularly for these items, they can establish that regular revenue stream (until a player finds the ONE they want, of course), and there will be variety in game so everyone doesn't have the exact same assistants.

As a concept, Assistants are a great addition to ESO, but the current implementation on PTS is lacking.

I realize that my perspective of "lets add things that make the game BETTER while also being profitable for ZOS!" and not "I want things to be added that make the game EASIER for ME" is unique. There are about a half dozen people on these forums that post similar concepts as I do and we all thing of the larger picture, not just our own particular playstyle or desires.

My process for suggesting concepts has been the following:

Does the concept ADD to player agency and ability within the game? If so... continue
Does the concept follow the aesthetic, lore, and precedence of The Elder Scrolls franchise? If so... continue
Is there an opportunity for ZOS to directly make money by implementing this concept? If so.. POST! POST NAO!!!

With all this consideration, I've never seen any indication that ZOS listens to the types of ideas players like myself bring to the discussion... And that's fine, but the community needs to understand that the reason ZOS isn't listening isn't because the community is bringing their ideas in a thoughtless, irrational, or immature presentation... They just don't appear to be interested in hearing anything other than bugs and exploits that are found in the game.

Selstad · March 2016

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

You get this backwards a bit. Yes a business is there to make money, that is very evident. However any business needs costumers to survive, and when your business is build and based around a trade relation, the costumer becomes the most important aspect. Also take into consideration that in order to get an income, the business needs to transfer its goods to a costumer and get money from it.

In any thriving and good business build on consumers, keeping consumers happy is the number one priority. The shareholders' priority is actually lesser than that of the company, in financials it's stated that you can withheld part of the shareholder's cut if needed to sustain the company financially.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Yes it gives you a lot to say. The consumers - especially in the EU - have a very strong govern in terms of purchasing a product. Per example, the company is responsible for the form and function of the product, and it's also responsible for the product in a period after the purchase. Per example, here in Norway, if you purchase a dishwasher, then you can expect that it will last at least 2 years. That means that any malfunction to that dishwasher within those 2 years, can potentially be the responsibility of the sales place. If the product is faulty from the manufacturer, you get a new one.

The same goes for this game, the company is responsible to deliver as promise in the description when you purchase the game. If per example the servers are abnormally long off line, you have the right for compensation. So purchasing a product gives you a heap of things to say.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

It's a long procedure to deny someone access to your business. Only if they're aggressive or showing a threat to others can you deny them access to your business. I've had to deal with my share of drunk people, yet event those I've been responsible for (I've worked at a hotel). It's also bad for business just showing someone away from your store just because you don't like them.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

I'm sorry but this statement is wrong. Old costumers that stay with the product for an extended period of time, does mean profit. Costumer loyalty is the best form of currency there is, and not only do they buy from you, they also advertise for you. I had a couple of business men travelling the Norwegian coast line for their company, and their company was very strict on where they should stay the night, and how much cost they should have on it. But since they were quite satisfied with the care in the hotel I worked in, they decided to give a dam about what their company said, and staid at hotels of the same chain I worked in. Good costumer relation pays of, and that's how I made most of my sales working at the hotel. I had so many in my portfolio, that I didn't have time to go looking for new costumers. I just called my long time relations, asked if they had any business for me, and they knew they could call me to get things done if they needed hotel services.

In both B2B and B2P sales, old costumer pays. So you're very wrong in this statement.

Lysette · March 2016

Selstad wrote: »

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

You get this backwards a bit. Yes a business is there to make money, that is very evident. However any business needs costumers to survive, and when your business is build and based around a trade relation, the costumer becomes the most important aspect. Also take into consideration that in order to get an income, the business needs to transfer its goods to a costumer and get money from it.

In any thriving and good business build on consumers, keeping consumers happy is the number one priority. The shareholders' priority is actually lesser than that of the company, in financials it's stated that you can withheld part of the shareholder's cut if needed to sustain the company financially.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Yes it gives you a lot to say. The consumers - especially in the EU - have a very strong govern in terms of purchasing a product. Per example, the company is responsible for the form and function of the product, and it's also responsible for the product in a period after the purchase. Per example, here in Norway, if you purchase a dishwasher, then you can expect that it will last at least 2 years. That means that any malfunction to that dishwasher within those 2 years, can potentially be the responsibility of the sales place. If the product is faulty from the manufacturer, you get a new one.

The same goes for this game, the company is responsible to deliver as promise in the description when you purchase the game. If per example the servers are abnormally long off line, you have the right for compensation. So purchasing a product gives you a heap of things to say.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

It's a long procedure to deny someone access to your business. Only if they're aggressive or showing a threat to others can you deny them access to your business. I've had to deal with my share of drunk people, yet event those I've been responsible for (I've worked at a hotel). It's also bad for business just showing someone away from your store just because you don't like them.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

I'm sorry but this statement is wrong. Old costumers that stay with the product for an extended period of time, does mean profit. Costumer loyalty is the best form of currency there is, and not only do they buy from you, they also advertise for you. I had a couple of business men travelling the Norwegian coast line for their company, and their company was very strict on where they should stay the night, and how much cost they should have on it. But since they were quite satisfied with the care in the hotel I worked in, they decided to give a dam about what their company said, and staid at hotels of the same chain I worked in. Good costumer relation pays of, and that's how I made most of my sales working at the hotel. I had so many in my portfolio, that I didn't have time to go looking for new costumers. I just called my long time relations, asked if they had any business for me, and they knew they could call me to get things done if they needed hotel services.

In both B2B and B2P sales, old costumer pays. So you're very wrong in this statement.

Customer loyalty is for certain a big win, if a company can establish that - think of cars for example, if you are satisfied with the quality of your car, why would you want to even look at other brands, if you know the next car from "your" manufacturer will be of the same quality or even better. Or airlines - there is a reason why I prefer to fly Emirates, Singapore or Quantas - best service quality - and regardless if other airlines might be cheaper, I fly one of those 3 whenever possible.

Selstad · March 2016

Costumer loyalty is something that many companies seem to forget the importance of, they seem to think that a high sale is a good income. Personally I wasn't stinchy about discounts if I knew they would come back. Took a loss of around 2000€ on one of my clients to help them out, they were having a bit of an issue selling their tour due to high prices, but couldn't cut any more on their side without losing profit. They became a loyal costumer and a couple of the other hotels tried to give them lucrative prices but they kept to my hotel, so that 2000€ loss one year on normative prices, gave me a 10 000€ profit over 3 years.

So the OP stating that "old costumers are not more profitable" is just plain wrong, and goes against most common practices in any well run business.

OtarTheMad · March 2016

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

I disagree with this. I think that in order to keep your business afloat you must cater to both crowds and a business MUST show loyalty to those who have been there from the start. If you do not do that then eventually it will catch up with any business because of word of mouth. People will start saying "They aren't loyal to you after a few months and treat you badly." You can watch the birds scatter after that gets out, then new players won't even bother.

While it is good to cater a product to new customers, like ESO has, you must also show some sort of loyalty with those of us who have been here a long time. Doing this enables you to have a solid business foundation while you work on growing your product. Maybe that's just me but alienating yourself from half of your target audience just because they are players who have played your game longer does not sound like a good move going forward.

khele23eb17_ESO · March 2016

This is so true itll eventually lead to people

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

I disagree with this. I think that in order to keep your business afloat you must cater to both crowds and a business MUST show loyalty to those who have been there from the start. If you do not do that then eventually it will catch up with any business because of word of mouth. People will start saying "They aren't loyal to you after a few months and treat you badly." You can watch the birds scatter after that gets out, then new players won't even bother.

While it is good to cater a product to new customers, like ESO has, you must also show some sort of loyalty with those of us who have been here a long time. Doing this enables you to have a solid business foundation while you work on growing your product. Maybe that's just me but alienating yourself from half of your target audience just because they are players who have played your game longer does not sound like a good move going forward.

This seems like a logical, common sense approach. You attract new players and develop good content to keep them playing as long as possible, building product satisfaction and loyalty. But business people dont use common sense, they use statistics :P And from what Ive read in an article about player retention in MMOs, that particular stat is rather low. I wont give you the exact numbers as I simply dont recall the article well enough (I think it was 30% over 3 months and 10% over 6 months... but, yeah, not really sure I got that right), suffice to say however it made me go 'well, this is not good for future MMO quality.' It was low enough that the strategy of attracting new players without really caring much for old ones suddenly started making sense business-wise. Even the most popular games only keep a fraction of players after 3-4 months of the purchase so why even cater these folks? Focus on getting as many new players as possible and sucking money out of them in those several months they will be there.

Sausage · March 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

I actually believe this is exactly the problem why WoW is still the King. Instead of listening the community, devs wanted WoW redux and thats how things go south.

Liukke · March 2016

It's so simple,
I've been playing Lineage 2 for over 10 years, and have spent lots of money in it.
It also became free 2 play (with EVERY content open, no dlcs, nothing to buy) but I kept spending money on the internal store (mostly for fashion stuf, it was a bit p2w like, but you still could do everything without spending a cent) and it was always PLAYABLE.
It took various directions, at times it was too action-styled, at times other classes were OP as hell but it always worked, even when totally free, no game breaking bugs, no graphical glitches, moderate fps but CONSTANT even with 300ppl on screen (if anybody knows that game, castle sieges were VERY populated).

So yep, old customer work, always work, even for 10 years.
After 1 year in ESO i can't play, it's ridicolous since they ask lots of money for the game and for the really poor DLCs.
It's not about money/customer/business thing, it's just they can't keep up with all the fixing and maintenance process, they should hire qualified people and work better, stop pushing useless patches with useless changes they didn't even test, because they are gaining some profit from new players that will leave in 6 months if the game keeps being that broken.

It's just bad business, it's a fail company at the moment, they need to change as soon as possible