Basic Lessons in Real LIfe Business (for whiners/complainers)

Liukke

Sausage wrote: »

scorpiodog wrote: »

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

I actually believe this is exactly the problem why WoW is still the King. Instead of listening the community, devs wanted WoW redux and thats how things go south.

WoW is still the king (though it has lost lots of its quality) because it has both a casual approach (it's fun, it's cartoonish) and a hardcore approach (doing raids is an elite stuff and needs to be done WELL, with few mistakes) and both approaches work.
If WoW crashed every 20 seconds during a big raid or your skills didn't work I guess that 30-40% of its customer would just run away and change game. It's the basics of any videogame, make it work and people will play.

threefarms

Ponder this question: Is ESO a "real life business".

It's just a damn game.

Liukke

threefarms wrote: »

Ponder this question: Is ESO a "real life business".

It's just a damn game.

A damn game that works with real money,
that makes it a real business. :P

Merlight

mb10 wrote: »

"If it doesnt make money, it doesnt make sense"

Thank you for your invaluable input.

LadyNalcarya

Well, if a fast food company would start selling burgers made of rotten meat and burned to ashes french fries, its reputation wont last long.
This is comparable to all the lags, bugs, crashes and unability to log in sometimes.

WalkingLegacy

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Selstad wrote: »

costumers.

Selstad wrote: »

Costumer

I got lost here. What does cosplay have to do with a business model.

Sorry couldn't help myself. But i'm an a_s.

Wait...does calling myself an a_s violate naming and shaming?

Woeler

Well written. So many QQ on these forums lately.

Selstad

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

costumers.

Selstad wrote: »

Costumer

I got lost here. What does cosplay have to do with a business model.

Sorry couldn't help myself. But i'm an a_s.

Wait...does calling myself an a_s violate naming and shaming?

I blame it on the English language for having such similar words for those of us who's not native to the language

Acrolas

scorpiodog wrote: »

Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority.

ZOS isn't publicly traded.

But they do answer to an impressive board at Zenimax Inc - including Jerry Bruckheimer, Les Moonves, Cal Ripken, Jr, and Robert S. Trump. Zenimax also received $4.52 million in new venture capital about a week ago.

As a family of private companies, I don't predict any financial difficulties in the near future...

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

So they just clone themselves into ten people or something?

GrimMauKin

The problem with TESO is simply that it could be so much better. The graphics, music, promo cinematics, story telling, in fact pretty much everything about the game are exemplary - the part that isn't is the code and bug fixing, which is shocking.

I've been playing since day one and have walked away on several occasions due to relentless deaths from bugs; surprisingly I've always come back which is to the credit of the general quality of the rest of the game, but sooner or later, if the bugs persist I'm sure that something better will come along (and Zeni's previous form suggests that the game is only going to continue to become more bug ridden with each update or patch).

I posted in the first week or so of play about skill's keys not working; the Mods were on it pretty quickly advising that it'd be fixed; is it 2 years on now, or there abouts, and it's still an issue. Many of the bugs are at the basic, fundamental level of the game - ongoing bugs in skills (cloak has never worked reliably), I usually still have to press the potion key several times before it works and even the direction keys don't work reliably (unexpected rolls are pretty regular); there are many others.

Zenimax potentially have the best MMO ever on their hands but until the level of bugs is seriously reduced it's not going to be the gold bar it could be, just a turd rolled in glitter.

What worries me is that focus on stuff to sell in the Crown Store and glitzy DLC at the expense of investment in bug fixing suggests that Zeni. may not view TESO as a long term money maker, which potentially it could be; to my mind the shift from a subscription to Pay To Play model supports this; time will tell.

I really enjoy this game but there are times when the pain outweighs the pleasure. I just feel that it's a real shame that Zenimax don't but the same level of care into their code that they do to other aspects of the game.

Lysette

.

GrimMauKin wrote: »

The problem with TESO is simply that it could be so much better. The graphics, music, promo cinematics, story telling, in fact pretty much everything about the game are exemplary - the part that isn't is the code and bug fixing, which is shocking.

I've been playing since day one and have walked away on several occasions due to relentless deaths from bugs; surprisingly I've always come back which is to the credit of the general quality of the rest of the game, but sooner or later, if the bugs persist I'm sure that something better will come along (and Zeni's previous form suggests that the game is only going to continue to become more bug ridden with each update or patch).

I posted in the first week or so of play about skill's keys not working; the Mods were on it pretty quickly advising that it'd be fixed; is it 2 years on now, or there abouts, and it's still an issue. Many of the bugs are at the basic, fundamental level of the game - ongoing bugs in skills (cloak has never worked reliably), I usually still have to press the potion key several times before it works and even the direction keys don't work reliably (unexpected rolls are pretty regular); there are many others.

Zenimax potentially have the best MMO ever on their hands but until the level of bugs is seriously reduced it's not going to be the gold bar it could be, just a turd rolled in glitter.

What worries me is that focus on stuff to sell in the Crown Store and glitzy DLC at the expense of investment in bug fixing suggests that Zeni. may not view TESO as a long term money maker, which potentially it could be; to my mind the shift from a subscription to Pay To Play model supports this; time will tell.

I really enjoy this game but there are times when the pain outweighs the pleasure. I just feel that it's a real shame that Zenimax don't but the same level of care into their code that they do to other aspects of the game.

While I feel in most of what you said like you, DLC have to be put out, because MOST of Tamriel is still missing and vital elements like thief guild and Dark Brotherhood were missing but are now either there or coming. The game is about Tamriel and look at all the patches on this continent, which are not in the game yet - if they do not start to put out 3-4 DLCs every year, they won't get to completion before the product life cycle of the game runs out - and it will at some point, because graphics are top-notch NOW, but in a couple of years this will be outdated graphics - and I doubt they will put in the effort to update all the older contents. The group missed the opportunity to publish a Morrowind redux on a new engine, so I see no hope that they will put ESO in a couple of years on an updated graphics engine. So it's life is limited to maybe another 5-8 year.

Liukke

Lysette wrote: »

.

GrimMauKin wrote: »

The problem with TESO is simply that it could be so much better. The graphics, music, promo cinematics, story telling, in fact pretty much everything about the game are exemplary - the part that isn't is the code and bug fixing, which is shocking.

I've been playing since day one and have walked away on several occasions due to relentless deaths from bugs; surprisingly I've always come back which is to the credit of the general quality of the rest of the game, but sooner or later, if the bugs persist I'm sure that something better will come along (and Zeni's previous form suggests that the game is only going to continue to become more bug ridden with each update or patch).

I posted in the first week or so of play about skill's keys not working; the Mods were on it pretty quickly advising that it'd be fixed; is it 2 years on now, or there abouts, and it's still an issue. Many of the bugs are at the basic, fundamental level of the game - ongoing bugs in skills (cloak has never worked reliably), I usually still have to press the potion key several times before it works and even the direction keys don't work reliably (unexpected rolls are pretty regular); there are many others.

Zenimax potentially have the best MMO ever on their hands but until the level of bugs is seriously reduced it's not going to be the gold bar it could be, just a turd rolled in glitter.

What worries me is that focus on stuff to sell in the Crown Store and glitzy DLC at the expense of investment in bug fixing suggests that Zeni. may not view TESO as a long term money maker, which potentially it could be; to my mind the shift from a subscription to Pay To Play model supports this; time will tell.

I really enjoy this game but there are times when the pain outweighs the pleasure. I just feel that it's a real shame that Zenimax don't but the same level of care into their code that they do to other aspects of the game.

While I feel in most of what you said like you, DLC have to be put out, because MOST of Tamriel is still missing and vital elements like thief guild and Dark Brotherhood were missing but are now either there or coming. The game is about Tamriel and look at all the patches on this continent, which are not in the game yet - if they do not start to put out 3-4 DLCs every year, they won't get to completion before the product life cycle of the game runs out - and it will at some point, because graphics are top-notch NOW, but in a couple of years this will be outdated graphics - and I doubt they will put in the effort to update all the older contents. The group missed the opportunity to publish a Morrowind redux on a new engine, so I see no hope that they will put ESO in a couple of years on an updated graphics engine. So it's life is limited to maybe another 5-8 year.

You both have a right argument,
everyone wants to play the whole tamriel...but if it's unplayable what's the point on doing that?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Excellent post, OP.

I'm amazed at some of the reactions, like most people are totally unaware of the actual world we live in ?

That being said, I also believe that in ESO's particular case, the feeling of "entitlement" as "customers" is nurtured by the feeling of community.
An MMO needs a community in order to last (this is different from simply "customers" or even "player base"). Our interactions ingame are the reason we stay in the game and repeat content. Without them, we would leave the game upon completion of content. Friendship, relationships, competition, hates, stories, drama, guild life, who's who... all this micro-society that we players create is essential. That's why ZOS supports it with this forum, ESO live, etc... and this is why we have "community managers" and not "customer relations managers". The downside of this community aspect is that it doesn't feel like a "product" which we simply buy, but as a cooperative entity which is "ours" and to which we have contributed, which leads to people feeling entitled to complain and to have a say in the decisions being made.

Let's also not forget that "hard-core" and "long-term" players are the ones who create this community content : guild leaders, raid leaders, guild animators, streamers, tutorial authors, theorycrafters, add-on authors, website designers, forum contributors, and simply people who spend a lot of time in the game talking to other people and creating bonds, all this is content creation without which the world would feel empty and players would not stay. This is all benevolent work which generates cash directly into ZOS' pockets. In that regard, hard core and long term players are essential. That's why ZOS cannot tell us to shut up and never will. They will always say that they want feedback and that they listen to it. (Which I believe they do, actually).

TL/DR : yes, we're customers, not advisors for the game, and we should all be aware of it, but it's also the nature of the beast to make us feel part of a community and therefore sort of entitled to have a say in the various choices that are made.

.

Cadbury

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

Tell that to Wal-mart, Mcdonalds, AT&T, Time Warner Cable, or pretty much any big corp.

There will always be a supply of ready-made customers looking to replace those who left.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Cadbury wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

Tell that to Wal-mart, Mcdonalds, AT&T, Time Warner Cable, or pretty much any big corp.

There will always be a supply of ready-made customers looking to replace those who left.

Exactly. I still don't see how one angry customer turns into ten unless its just friends who follow each other around like puppies.

Cadbury

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

Tell that to Wal-mart, Mcdonalds, AT&T, Time Warner Cable, or pretty much any big corp.

There will always be a supply of ready-made customers looking to replace those who left.

Exactly. I still don't see how one angry customer turns into ten unless its just friends who follow each other around like puppies.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying WalkingLegacy is wrong or that I disagree with him/her. My point is that there are alot of companies out there that have a...colorful history in regards to customers and their services. They still survive pretty much to this day because of the fact that ready-made customers are always in supply despite people boycotting them or spreading the word on their experiences.

My grandmother (rest her soul) used to say and believe the same adage "one unhappy customer equals ten". And that may have been true once upon a time, but thanks to trends, apathy, whatever this is no longer the threat it once was

LegacyDM

scorpiodog wrote: »

I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.

I agree with everything your saying. The only problem I have with eso is the blatant false advertising. We all bought this product under the assumption we would be able to play rvr in a massive player battle online environment. Yet this is not the case due to poor coding thus contributing to lag and unplayable conditions. For whatever reason, probably due to costs, Zos implements bandaid fixes (torch bugs, deer, increase siege damage, changes to detonation, delve rewards, publish goofy statements like find other things to do and spread out, etc.) rather than address the problem head on. Old customers have invested a lot of time and money holding out that the game will be what it was hyped for. Old customers are getting frustrated and warning new customers that this company So far has been smoke and mirrors when it comes to cyrodil lag and bug fixes. The only way us as customers can get change is to leave for a competitor and vocalize our displeasure. Once enough people leave and it effects the bottom dollar than Zos may consider fixing the code to attract old and new customers.

Liukke

Cadbury wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

Tell that to Wal-mart, Mcdonalds, AT&T, Time Warner Cable, or pretty much any big corp.

There will always be a supply of ready-made customers looking to replace those who left.

It's not completely true, since you are addressing the wrong businesses (junk selling businesses will always be up, no matter what).
Think about Amazon refund policy, is really flexible, if you're within time you can get a refund at almost 100% probability even if you broke the product yourself (except very obvious situations).
Those are the right businesses that care about customer base and prefer to overcare about them rather than leaving some unhappy because of some issues (I ordered a book from a sub-store in amazon, it was delivered 3 days after the expected date and they offered me a refund even if the book was already at my house, didn't accept it ofc :P).

By the way, I'm not saying that Zenimax doesn't care about their customer, in fact they are really active in the community.
They are simply bad in their work, can't manage such a big MMO without creating bugs and game breaking stuff but at least they try it...I just feel sorry for our money, ESO should be a free to play game with no DLCs to buy, since the quality of their product does not meet up with the money they ask for it. Should just be fan funded (or fool funded looking how the game progresses...or regresses )

Cadbury

Liukke wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Basic lesson for OP.

One unhappy customer turns into ten lost customers.

Tell that to Wal-mart, Mcdonalds, AT&T, Time Warner Cable, or pretty much any big corp.

There will always be a supply of ready-made customers looking to replace those who left.

It's not completely true, since you are addressing the wrong businesses (junk selling businesses will always be up, no matter what).
Think about Amazon refund policy, is really flexible, if you're within time you can get a refund at almost 100% probability even if you broke the product yourself (except very obvious situations).
Those are the right businesses that care about customer base and prefer to overcare about them rather than leaving some unhappy because of some issues (I ordered a book from a sub-store in amazon, it was delivered 3 days after the expected date and they offered me a refund even if the book was already at my house, didn't accept it ofc :P).

By the way, I'm not saying that Zenimax doesn't care about their customer, in fact they are really active in the community.
They are simply bad in their work, can't manage such a big MMO without creating bugs and game breaking stuff but at least they try it...I just feel sorry for our money, ESO should be a free to play game with no DLCs to buy, since the quality of their product does not meet up with the money they ask for it. Should just be fan funded (or fool funded looking how the game progresses...or regresses )

Sadly, I do believe that many companies tend to "sacrifice" certain customers in order to gain more in the long run. I'd like for companies to regain that "human touch" and focus more on the individual rather than the whole. But it is what it is.

I guess what I'm saying is while I agree with you, the reality is that I don't see anything changing majorly in the forsseable future. Call me a cynic. I prefer pragmatist tbh. *shrug*

evoga

You should be a Lollypop lady

Liukke

I still think you are addressing different realities.

You're right, many big business out there just think on their own when it comes to sacrifice a customer but you're talking about really really big super companies that rely on mass sells and less customer contact as possible.
Amazon it's still the king of e-commerce but relies on the customer, since it's power is in their service and not into their brand (if you think about Apple, they sell crappy overpriced phones just because they can and dumb people just buy a 1000$ phone only to use whatsapp...) so if they start to be "unconvenient" or too pricy they lose customers, and therefore money, and with all the feedback systems you can be a big plague to the company, leading them to be super careful even when the customer is wrong.

Looks like ESO tries to sell the game using its brand but in the long run many players will just be bored because the most important part (mechanics, since it's a game) is unstable and not reliable and they are not making any investment in that direction.
So yep, in this particular game, lead by this particular business company the customer base is fundamental if you plan to have a 10 years lasting mmo (or online rpg :P) or you'll just have few people passing by and hating you.

scorpiodog

Lots of good points from many different perspectives. I'm glad I started the discussion.

Messy1

SOOOOOOOO . . . me being a customer who bought the Imperial Edition at release for $70 dollars and renewing my subscription for 6 month periods at a time for $77 a pop since launch and buying stuff on the crown store makes me a not-profitable customer? I think I qualify as a older customer too.

Ugh, so much rage.

Volkodav

scorpiodog wrote: »

I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:

People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.

Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.

Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.

Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.

Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.

If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.

The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.

Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.

Ya know,I agreed with e verything you were saying,..until you said thus:
"The least profitable customers are those that play the most,.."
As to "old customers",I have been playing since early betas,and spend a bit for crowns at times,and also pay $15.00 every month.So,how am I one of the least profitable? Players who dont sub are more unprofitable than those who sub and play a lot.

Vangy

1. Money comes from customers (Ur stockholders don't pull pennys out of their [bleep] to invest in your business when u cant make them money)
2. Happy customers = paying customers = steady revenue, if not, you're always going to be at a mad rush to acquire new customers faster then the old ones are leaving.. Sound familiar? (hint: the current rate of DLC release of ESO). No MMO has ever had this much pressure to churn out new content at this pace. Its definitely not sustainable. Their business model literally is enticing new customers who will last for at most 1 or 2 DLCs and then get some more when these people leave. They don't seem to give a flying hoot about the people who have already bought their game. How does that make you feel?
3. Unhappy customers = bad publicity; you might think one or 2 letters raging at your hr department might be a non-issue but keep up ur trash and you will see thousands of negative reviews plastered on magazines/ratings etc and the stockholders you value ever so highly will turn tail and dump your stocks right in the bin where it belongs.

Extra trivia:
a)Google, Apple, Fed Ex, Amazon & Marriott. Guess what these giants all have in common?

Yep you guessed it, they are consistently rated by their CUSTOMERS and even employees as having the best relations and support on glassdoor, forbes, 24/7 Wall Street etc.

b)Wal-mart, AT&T, Verizon & Wells Fargo. Yep you probably guessed it again, these guys have the worst relations.

Wanna take a guess at which group of companies are doing better? a or b? So take your nonsense about how customers don't matter and shove it back up your [bleep] where it came from.

Yes you need to satisfy your stockholders but it should never come at the cost of your customers satisfaction. Any business that takes its customers for granted will end up being unsustainable.

Yeah, burger joints aren't going to change their lettuce from iceberg to Romaine, but you sure as hell bet they're going to replace your burger if you find the meat has gone bad. Essentially, with ESO and its game breaking bugs, this is the analogy you want to be using. Its like you ordered a burger, it got served cool with soggy vegetables. You try telling the waiter your food has gone bad but the waiter shoves the menu into your face and asks you to buy dessert. One might ask what game breaking bugs? PvP lag, racial passives not working, multiple mundus stones etc etc, I can go on and on. Some of these bugs have been around for years and more to come. Yet they keep slapping DLC after DLC asking us to buy desserts. We aren't a bunch of snobs asking for Romaine lettuce instead of iceberg here. We'r asking them to give us the damn cheeseburger we ordered instead of the one week old microwaved frozen burger they're slapping on our tray. Just go watch a single episode of "kitchen nightmares" and even though its probably staged and exaggerated, you'll see the point im trying to make.

[Edited to remove insulting content]

Vaoh

@scorpiodog I understand it's fun to play professional businessman, but isn't this logic sorely incorrect for ESO?

ZOS operates on selling Crown Store items for a quick buck, not on retaining players by working on performance and overall consistent quality throughout the game.

Hundreds of thousands (most likely upwards of half a million players) left because the Large-scale battles w/ 200+ on screen and no lag disappeared. For console it never happened. This was the main selling point of ESO including all trailers and it has been put to death. The majority of the playerbase said "f*** this lag i'll play something that works" and left/sold game (like 95% of my friends and guildies not kidding). Not only that, but if someone says "hey bro should I buy ESO?" they will respond "No that game sucks don't do it play this with me instead" <-- Permanent customer/$$$ loss

If you fix Cyrodiil lag and balance it then word gets out and hundreds of thousands who have left will come back and even stay. New players would join at a ridiculous rate. Adding PvP Arenas would be great and cause Twitch stream viewing to go through the roof, giving way to more game purchasing + popularity. All of this means INSANE AND SUSTAINABLE CASH FLOW FOR ZOS. Did you know that all of ESO's most popular streamers are not even playing ESO much anymore? They are playing other games, and some have completely stopped until PvP is fixed.

Most people still here only play because of the potential this game has. Or maybe I should say had, since ZOS has still not capitalized on it. Your view though may very well be their own, unfortunately.

scorpiodog

@Vangy
What is stupid is if someone gets angry, hostile and aggressive towards people having a discussion in a discussion forum.

My game works fine and the way I want it to. There are a few minor glitches, but no big deal for me.

Merlight

scorpiodog wrote: »

What is stupid is if someone gets angry, hostile and aggressive towards people having a discussion in a discussion forum.

scorpiodog wrote: »

What I'm saying is I see way too many "Hardcore MMO players" saying things that don't even make sense and it's pitiful to read or watch because they are just poor self-important fools who think if they throw a tantrum all of a sudden it will be easier to program a megaserver in with millions of clients and catering to their specific and unique desires.

Not trying to be mean, but if you think you throw "basic lessons" and all of a sudden there will be fewer of those, then you're a fool as well. I'm not even questioning the contents of your lesson (that's been handled nicely by @Vangy), just that it simply doesn't matter. Hope venting it out helped, though.